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12:10 AM
@terdon Good. Don't. The film is an atrocity and the soundtrack will make you wish you had earlids.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 But to put in my $.02: I read The Magus as a teenager and couldn't put it down. Was literally up all night reading until I finished. Ten years or so later, after Fowles had published his revised version, the "now I'm a famous author and can tell the editors to get fucked" version, I thought I'd check it out. Wound up reading all night again.
 
12:49 AM
@Robusto Hmm. Maybe I should try it.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:50 AM
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You could do worse.
An Amazon 5-star review: "
This has been my favorite novel for decades, something of a cross between the films "The Talented Mr. Ripley" and "Eyes Wide Shut" (with a hint of "The Prisoner"!) A young ex-pat teaching English on a Greek island falls into the clutches of a mysterious and wealthy recluse, who proceeds to play elaborate mind-games with him, interspersed with discussions of philosophy (mostly existentialism peppered with Jungian psychology). I don't know how well the novel works for an older audience, but when I was in my early twenties, it seemed to open doors like nothing else h
4-star review excerpt: "[D]espite ... minor flaws, The Magus is an astounding piece of fiction. Fowles clearly wrote it in a spirit of ambition that would have defeated many a lesser writer. The Magus is thus an important novel that, while it does not measure up to the true greatness of, say, The French Lieutenant's Woman, is still an enjoyable and worthwhile book to read."
3/4 of reviewers there gave it 4 or 5 stars (5/8 were 5-star reviews), and only 16% gave it less than 3.
Some people complained that it was hard to get into the story, but I didn't find that at all. The textural profluence keeps you going until the mysteries begin to hook you.
 
@Robusto Hmm.
Sorry, I was playing Fluxx.
It only sounds dirty.
 
Excuse me, playing with your flux capacitor?
 
Hey, I'm old.
 
I was making a Rick and Morty joke.
Which like, satirizes the relationship between the Doc and McFly.
 
2:05 AM
What is this, Imgur?
 
Dude.
So, you haven't seen it.
 
I've watched Cartoon Network.
 
You got the Hulu?
 
Yeah, but seldom use it.
I've seen Rick & Morty before. Reason I mentioned Imgur is that it's a meme there.
 
Which?
Which is a meme, mean I.
 
2:07 AM
Rick & Morty pop up in all kinds of situations.
 
Sign from the March for Science.
One of my faves, in fact.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 ^ ^^ ^^^
And definitive proof of my assertion:
Maybe you already got lost in the Imgur wormhole ...
 
> ‘Do you mind if I eat with some people over here?’ he said. ‘A fellow’s getting off some funny stuff.’
(from The Great Gatsby)
Is get off used in this meaning in contemporary English?
 
@Færd That usage has fallen somewhat into disuse.
 
OK. Thanks.
 
2:22 AM
Still probably easily understood, however.
 
Did it have a special ring to it, even back when it was commonly used?
It's informal, of course. Maybe not much more than that.
 
@Færd It would have sounded fresh and slangy in the '20s, no doubt.
 
Nowadays, quippy, maybe?
 
Nowadays it would be more laid back, much less au courant ...
In fact, not au courant at all.
 
I see.
 
2:28 AM
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者: BTW, are you aware that Dan Harmon is one of the co-creators of Rick and Morty? He was the show runner for Community, which is maybe my favorite sitcom ever.
 
@Robusto How would you compare it with his other novels? Maybe less mature?
 
I haven't read anything by him as of yet.
 
@Færd Gatsby is where you want to start with Fitzgerald.
 
I meant Fowles and his Magus.
 
2:31 AM
Oh.
I've only read three Fowles novels: that, The French Lieutenant's Woman, and The Collector. I'd be hard-pressed to choose a favorite among them.
 
He himself wasn't very keen on The Magus.
 
@Færd Yeah, and Stravinsky didn't like Le Sacre du Printemps when he got older. So what?
 
I don't know. Some were suggesting here that The Magus wasn't very mature.
Maybe you'd enjoy his other novels more once you're older and have a developed taste.
Or something to that effect.
Since reading a novel is a somewhat painstaking job for me, I consider this stuff before starting one.
 
That's as may be. I can tell you that it riveted me to my chair. I was 17 the first time I read it and 27 the second. Enjoyed it immensely. In some ways it's better than TFLW or The Collector.
You think you're maybe too old for it?
 
laughs as if he's too old for anything
Well, yeah, maybe.
 
2:38 AM
All I can say is I enjoyed it immensely twice. I'm older now, so if I ever read it again I'll let you know if I consider it puerile.
 
OK.
 
Fowles's style is rich and interesting, and that carries a lot of weight with me.
 
Rich in what way? The plots? The prose?
What does he care about, generally speaking?
 
The combination of voice and prose elevates his plots for me. But they are ingenious enough.
He understands voice better than most writers.
 
Hmm.
 
2:42 AM
He inhabits the voice of his novels.
And he enjoys experimentation.
The three novels I've read of his all had a certain duality to them, an exploration of protagonist and antagonist points of view.
 
Each with their respective voice, prolly. That's nice.
 
For example, the first half of The Collector was written from the POV of a crazy geek and the second half was written by the woman he captured and kept prisoner.
The French Lieutenant's Woman hopped back and forth between a "modern" (late Victorian England) narrative and a more romantic one of a previous era, but both were related.
 
It takes courage to take on that challenge and expertise to pull it off successfully.
I'm enticed.
 
The Magus, though, was a first-person narrator confronted and plagued incessantly by the exterior reality he existed in, which gave him extreme pains to sort out.
So on the one hand he's describing his interior landscape and on the other he's at pains to square that with the outside conundrums he faces.
That combination provides a tremendous narrative force.
When people say The Magus is a "less mature" work than his others, and less enjoyable to their adult selves, I'm sure they don't mean it in the same way you might describe, say, how you felt about The Wizard of Oz when you were a child and the way you feel about it now.
 
@Robusto Would it give one a taste of his milieu and the state of affairs he lived in?
 
2:51 AM
@Færd Absolutely.
 
So it's historically significant.
In a way.
And doesn't have a particularly babyish or teenage theme. Although I'm fine with fine YA literature.
 
Well ... that's not how I'd describe it. It expresses a certain period of history.
@Færd Its theme is more adult than that, but it is partly about a young man's passion for women and his callowness in dealing with them.
 
That's not particular to young men, is it.
 
One would hope it is.
Read a couple chapters and see if it hooks you, that's what I'd suggest.
 
Very well.
 
2:57 AM
You can start the book right there and buy it if you like it.
Gotta go. Laterz.
 
See you.
 
 
5 hours later…
7:44 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted username, blacklisted website in body: You can choose a small bag small radley bag as a gift by radlelgl on english.SE
 
8:23 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, pattern-matching website in answer: Are əʊ and oʊ the same? by Cynthia Chamblee on english.SE
 
9:08 AM
TL;DR; "Buddhism is violent"
One good part is
> No religion has a monopoly on ‘violent people’, nor does any one religion have a greater propensity for violence. Rather, social conditions such as poverty and societal upheavals generate violent behaviour, regardless of religion. It is no coincidence that poorer regions and neighbourhoods suffer higher crime rates. When people find the world changing around them, they turn to their religion to make sense of things. Some look to religion as a means to preserve what they have, and religion provides a way of understanding one’s place in the world and, more importantly, one’s duty.
 
9:54 AM
@M.A.R. Dunno about that. I would argue that the Abrahamic religions with their inherent assumption of superiority are more violent. Not that they have more violent people, mind you, only that they have resulted in more violence in the name of their religion. You get violent assholes in any religion, of course, but there is, I think, a difference in how often or easily a religion can be abused to justify violence.
 
@terdon True that. I like the comments
Read the comments too
 
Wow. Articulate, well-reasoned and constructive comments! Is nothing sacred?
 
@terdon IKR, let's compare them to YouTube comments under a Rihanna music video
 
 
2 hours later…
11:40 AM
@M.A.R. TL;DR People are idiots
@terdon are you kidding?
 
. . . waiting for the other show to drop.
Why would I be kidding?
 
Mongols and their wolf based polytheism were the worst.
 
:)
 
They're the ones who would wipe out entire villages except for the one dude they'd let for to inform the neighboring towns.
Takes me time to type
But the proof is that once they conquered some people they'd both 1) adopt the local religion (Islam Confucianism whateve, and 2) calm the eff down.
Wiccans don't seem to be killing many people lately
 
12:02 PM
@Mitch Too few of 'em.
 
12:33 PM
@tchrist when/if you have a free moment and nothing better to do, could you ping me? I'd like to ask for your help identifying a weird character in a file.
$ od a
0000000 005353
0000002
$ od -c a
0000000 353  \n
0000002
$ uniprops $(cat a)
U+FFFD ‹�› \N{REPLACEMENT CHARACTER}
    \pS \p{So}
    All Any Assigned Common Zyyy So S Gr_Base Grapheme_Base Graph X_POSIX_Graph GrBase Other_Symbol Print X_POSIX_Print Symbol Specials
       Unicode
If I understand correctly though, this U+FFFD isn't an actual character, as such, but instead indicates breakage.
 
1:08 PM
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 seems close. googling gives wiktionary, plus a few other strange dictionaries I've never heard of with exactly the same text. So somebody is copying from somebody.
Anyway, '-nym' is a greek root so I'd suspect 'theo-' would be the closer fit.
@terdon They're growing
 
unlike the wolf based polytheists, who are growling
 
Ouch :P
 
@terdon Try od -cx or uniquote -v or uniquote -b if it isn't UTF-8.
I see one byte value 0xEB.
Is there an 0x05 after that?
 
1:25 PM
@tchrist I think it's sorted, thanks. My problem is a complete failure to understand indianness and character representations: unix.stackexchange.com/q/361923/22222
And no, the output is as I show. Just that weird char and the newline.
 
mac(tchrist)% perl -C0 -le 'print "\xEB\x05"' | uniquote
uniquote: read failure: utf8 "\xEB" does not map to Unicode at standard input line 1
Exit 1
mac(tchrist)% perl -C0 -le 'print "\xEB\x05"' | uniquote -b
\xEB\x05
0xEB is not a valid start character in UTF-8.
 
$ uniquote -b file 2>/dev/null
\xEB
 
Yep.
 
Yes, that works! Nice!
 
mac(tchrist)% perl -CS -le 'print "\xEB"' | uniquote -v
\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS}
In Latin1, it's an ë
 
1:26 PM
Yes, that's precisely what it is.
I think the main datum I was missing was "ignore the leading two 0s in the output of od"
 
Yes, od confuses me.
Part of why I wrote uniquote.
 
@terdon do you mean endianness?
 
@MattE.Эллен I did say complete failure, did I not? And yes, I did.
 
Thanks @tchrist!
 
1:28 PM
I went to your question expecting and answer about Hindi script or something
 
Heh.
Oh, by the way @tchrist, why does uniprops return � ?
 
@terdon You passed it invalid Unicode.
 
Fair enough. So since the input wasn't unicode, it prints out that placeholder character?
 
It tried to decode it as UTF-8 and used the combo of flags on the decoding that returns the replacement character for failure instead of throwing an exception.
 
I see. Thanks.
 
1:38 PM
It's so that if you have a stream containing some bogus sequences, you can still get some sort of answer. UTF-8 recovers quickly.
 
@MattE.Эллен I like the radioactivity based who are glowing
 
@Mitch the angry ones are glowering
 
And the contrite ones groveling.
 
Courtesy of Farmer Jones's Cow-Towing Services.
 
1:57 PM
snort
 
 
1 hour later…
3:16 PM
@Robusto Are you sure Dan Harmon was involved in Dr Horrible? I thought that was Joss Whedon.
 
3:46 PM
@terdon the early-to-rise are gloaming
 
@Mitch The early-to-bed, you mean? Nice word though!
 
4:05 PM
@terdon dusk, dawn, they all look the same.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Finally checked OED, and it has neither. So basically that means we not allowed to talk about it at all.
@terdon OK then, the hard labor prisoners are graveling
 
Probably grovelling as well. Go multitasking!
 
 
1 hour later…
5:38 PM
@Mitch That is not strictly true. While the scope of the website is limited to the English language, even Oxford admits they don't contain the entirety of it. Their website contains approximately 600,000 entries according to its homepage, and Merriam-Webster reports that estimates are commonly reported to be around one million words.. The main website even has an tag for questionable words.
Now it's harder to prove a word's validity without a dictionary entry, but it is doable, I suppose, at least to the extent where it would be on-topic enough as an answer to a .
 
6:23 PM
@Tonepoet Nothing is strictly true.
 
@Mitch I guarantee you that the sun rose this morning.
 
Not in antarctica
 
@Mitch Somewhere it did.
 
ok the arctic either, it was up all night
pulled an all dayer
 
@Mitch Actually, that's debatable. Obviously a full day hasn't passed in the Artic or Antartic regions. =P
 
6:27 PM
Actually, you're using actually like it's going out of style.
 
@Mitch I suppose you're right. I should have said "Obviously, that's debatable. A full day hasn't actually passed in the Artic or Antartic regions." ;-)
 
Actually that's obvious.
 
@Mitch Well, they don't call me Captain Obvious for nothin', now do they?
 
But it is not debatable at all that it is debateable
It's so obvious
 
@Mitch Of course! The sun never really rises. I recant my guarantee. =P
 
6:32 PM
@Tonepoet Those commercials are funny because the Captain says something and I squinch up my nose at it because I wonder why he said it because it is non trivial but then so obvious. And then I realize his name is 'Captain Obvious'.
Obviously
Call me Captain Oblivious
Noticing a foot of water in the room, Captain Obvious says "This room has some water damage". And I say "Duh, Captain Obvious. But more importantly did you notice that this room has water damage?"
 
@Mitch Why you scoundrel! I've been hunting you down throughout the four corners of the world, throughout the seven seas for ages, at the behest of the Queen! It is time to end your confounding reign of terror, and restore rhyme and reason to the world!
 
Which reminds me. I play a little word game app. And it accepts 'duh', to which I say "That's not a word", and it doesn't accept "slut" which is totally a word.
So their word dictionary is not my word dictionary.
My word dictionary is definitely not wiktionary. people put all sorts of crap in there.
looks up 'crap' on wiktionary
Ugh. Those definitions are the worst.
Also, 'ugh' is accepted by my game.
Everything is falling apart
Centers everywhere are not holding on
And people are displaying poor posture in the direction of Bethlehem
 
la la la, la la la laaaaa
la la la, la la la laaaaaa.
Name that tune. I know it's short but it's possible
oh, this'll give it away..
 
@Mitch Is it the la-la song?
 
6:47 PM
la laa la-la, la laa la-la, la la laaaa.
 
Or "I'm not Listening" by Mitch?
 
@Tonepoet mmm... no. but you're close
@Tonepoet ha ha no I'm serious
@Mitch Come again?
 
This is my best guess:
"Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye" is a song written and recorded by Paul Leka, Gary DeCarlo and Dale Frashuer, attributed to a then-fictitious band they named "Steam". It was released under the Mercury subsidiary label Fontana and became a number one pop single on the Billboard Hot 100 in late 1969, and remained on the charts in early 1970. In 1977, Chicago White Sox organist Nancy Faust began playing the song when White Sox sluggers knocked out the opposing pitcher. The fans would sing and a sports ritual was born. The song's chorus remains well-known, and is still frequently used as a crowd chant...
 
now you can star that
@Tonepoet That's really close to the chorus of 'Hey Jude'
 
@Mitch I'll need to pull out my Beatles apple thumbdrive and listen to that. Anyway, I have to go get the mail.
 
6:50 PM
naaaaa na na na-nuh-na naaa, na-nuh-na naaa, Hey Jude
@Tonepoet Mail is impatient like that
 
7:04 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yup, you're right. I had a brain cramp.
Sorry.
Now for all you Big Lebowski fans of current events, here's a little mashup that goes exactly like this:
 
7:49 PM
@Mitch Esp. when it's somebody else's mail!
 
8:15 PM
True except for the Japanese part.
Many words for testicles in Japanese, none that I know sound like isu.
But we shouldn't let a minor quibble stand in the way of a valid point. Language gender is nucking futs!
 
 
1 hour later…
9:22 PM
@Robusto Something that's problematic is that etymologically speaking, the words sex and gender originated more along the lines of section and kind, than the type of biological category usually meant by the words. The grammatical sense of gender is attested in English a century before we actually started associating the word with a person's genitalia.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:02 PM
@Robusto No, it is not. Call it NOMINAL_CLASS_ONE and NOMINAL_CLASS_TWO and stop freaking out about sex. This is not sex but genre, which is just a classification system unrelated to your gonads. It has nothing to do with sex. It is simply two or three or more different classes of nouns and those noun modifiers that must match their modified noun's class, like determiners and adjectives. It means nothing else.
It just means "kind".
Genre is kind.
It isn't generative organs.
In linguistics, a noun class is a particular category of nouns. A noun may belong to a given class because of the characteristic features of its referent, such as sex, animacy, shape, but counting a given noun among nouns of such or another class is often clearly conventional. Some authors use the term "grammatical gender" as a synonym of "noun class", but others use different definitions for each. Noun classes should not be confused with noun classifiers. == Notion == In general, there are three main ways by which natural languages categorize nouns into noun classes: according to similarities...
This is about agreement, about concord.
> The Dyirbal language is well known for its system of four noun classes, which tend to be divided along the following semantic lines:[2]
I — animate objects, men
II — women, water, fire, violence
III — edible fruit and vegetables
IV — miscellaneous (includes things not classifiable in the first three)
There you have four noun classes.
With men and women falling into distinct classes, but not classes exclusive to either men or women.
So what?
That language has four different genres. This one has just two:
> Hawaiian (Austronesian)[5] The genders are kino ʻō (o class) and kino ʻā (a class). Kino ʻō nouns concern anything that you can go into (e.g., houses, cars, planes) and put on (e.g., clothes and other personal effects), as well as anything you have no control over (e.g., the weather, time, space, politics, etc.) including the generation of family you are born into (e.g., your siblings, your cousins) and all preceding generations (e.g., your parents, grandparents, etc.).
> Kino ʻā nouns make up for everything you do have control over, which includes your actions, which further extends to the people you "choose" to live life with (e.g., your spouse, your children and all descendants, as well as your friends and teachers). The genders are paramount in possessive noun phrases and prepositional phrases, in particular where English favors subordinate clauses.
So there you have two genders, the o-class ones and the a-class ones.
You need to keep these straight for grammatical agreement.
Note that your parents and your children are of differing genders here.
Basque also has two genders. However, these are not masculine and feminine but rather animate and inanimate.
> As a rule, the local case suffixes given above are not used directly with noun phrases that refer to a person or an animal (called animate noun phrases).
> An inessive, allative or ablative relation affecting such noun phrases may be expressed by using the suffixes inessive -gan, allative -gana, and ablative -gandik, affixed to either the possessive genitive or the absolutive: nigan 'in me', irakaslearengana 'to(wards) the teacher' (irakasle 'teacher'), zaldiengandik 'from the horses' (zaldi 'horse'), haur horrengandik 'from that child', Koldorengana 'to(wards) Koldo'.
As you see, Basque has an interesting case system, and you have to keep track of animate-vs-inanimate gender to use it properly.
Many, many, many languages use varying sorts of agreement.
Imagine a Chinese speaker who thinks that our singular–plural agreement rules are nonsense. This is the very same thing you are doing here, @Robusto, when you're all annoyed by gender agreement in languages that have it. I never realized you were Chinese, though.
Adjectives in Basque have four degrees, not three: positive, comparative, superlative, and excessive. Isn't that interesting?
By which I mean that they're inflected into four possible forms.
 

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