English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MetaEd

12:01 AM

@tchrist Texas still has only a tiny chance of tipping the election.

tchrist

Well, you know what they say: As goes Tejas, so goes Méjico.

@MetaEd Pretty much none, I'd guess, since if they tip it will have very likely already been decided.

But it’s pleasant to imagine nonetheless.

MetaEd

Have you seen the dark horse scenario?

tchrist

misses Ann Richards

@MetaEd No?

MetaEd

Evan McMullin wins Utah, which deadlocks the Electoral College. The race goes to the new House and the new Senate.

tchrist

Oh gee.

MetaEd

12:05 AM

Having won only one state, but being a more acceptable mainstream Republican candidate than Trump, he ends up President.

"How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah And The Presidency. It’s unlikely, but far from impossible." —FiveThirtyEight.com

tchrist

That's the thing. These folks who think it'll all be over come the Eighth of November either haven't been looking at recent history or else have been smoking too much pot.

Mazura

I never thought I'd miss Reagan.

MetaEd

@Mazura Eew.

Mazura

Scary, right?

tchrist

It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.

Mazura

12:10 AM

@MetaEd That's who's up if Trump bows out?

tchrist

It doesn't work that way.

It's incredibly complicated.

Mitch

Iran's system is

complicateder

Mazura

It's real easy for me. I live in a state that doesn't swing.

Thus, I don't even bother to vote.

Cerberus

@MetaEd Do you think they would pick him over the Libertarian?

Frankly I didn't know there was still another Republican in the race,

MetaEd

@Mazura if the Electoral College Deadlocks, then Congress picks a president. It can be anybody.

Mazura

12:16 AM

@Cerberus If there is, I'm pretty sure they're fuct ... at least I'd hope so. Seen SNL or South Park lately? ;p

MetaEd

@Cerberus virtually nobody in Congress is libertarian. Why would they elect one?

Mazura

@MetaEd Oh crap. Who controls congress ATM?

MetaEd

@Mazura that's another thing. It's the new congress, not the old Congress, that gets to vote. And so the question of who controls Congress for the purposes of that boat is up to the voters on November 8th.

tchrist

How parliamentary of them.

MetaEd

@tchrist yes, or you could think of it as the Mormons stealing the presidency, your choice.

tchrist

12:20 AM

Mitt’s Revenge.

Mazura

@MetaEd Yikes. How many times has that happened?

tchrist

YCALIU

MetaEd

@Mazura has an election gone to Congress?

Mazura

Yeah, a deadlocked electoral.

MetaEd

@tchrist I think Mitt Romney refused to have anything to do with such an arrangement

Cerberus

12:22 AM

@Mazura Apparently, there is. Although perhaps he is not officially a candidate for the party? But he is Republican and apparently still running.

@MetaEd Mmm perhaps not.

Mazura

@Cerberus Sweet, it's about time they had a Nader ;)

Cerberus

> While this may sound shady by U.S. norms, it’s not unlike what happens in parliamentary systems around the world.

This is a bit far-fetched.

The huge difference is that, in parliamentary systems, while parliamentary fractions negotiate to appoint a government, they can also send that government home whenever they feel like it.

Mazura

So can we... sort of.

Cerberus

So, if they picked a candidate with very little popular support, he couldn't get much done that parliament didn't like.

@Mazura Only in extreme situations.

Mazura

What happened to @mitch ? We need more non-blue people in here ;)

MetaEd

12:28 AM

@Mazura twice, it seems.

Mazura

@MetaEd I guess precedence doesn't really matter; it'd be my luck anyway.

Cerberus

@Mazura He's blue inside.

Mazura

True.

tchrist

Oh, I thought he was slanty myself.

Cerberus

Slanty?

tchrist

12:29 AM

Yellow, not Blue.

MetaEd

@Cerberus the procedure in the u.s. is called impeachment.

Mazura

@MetaEd And they always resign anyway. Never been one IIRC.

Cerberus

@MetaEd I know that.

tchrist

@Mazura There have been two impeachments.

Cerberus

@tchrist He doesn't look yellow. And what is slanty?

Mazura

12:32 AM

Racism :\

tchrist

He just dove off in a diagonal, thus proving his slant.

Cerberus

As in, slanted eyes?

Ah.

tchrist

Well, that wasn't what I meant, but ok.

Red + Green = Yellow

Cerberus

Or brown.

Mazura

Smurfs are people too!

tchrist

12:33 AM

Blue people.

Cerberus

Little people.

tchrist

No reason.

Little hands.

Little feet.

No reason.
To live.

Mazura

No lives matter. The universe doesn't GAF

tchrist

Randy Newman - Short People

►

Mitch

@Mazura am I not blue?

Mazura

12:41 AM

Proverbially? You'd have to tell me.

You're neither a mod nor a room owner.

Mitch

Oh. Green

Mazura

Well, I'm lit. Good day, peoples ;)

Mitch

Later

SmokeDetector

2:44 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: You say something but you don't really mean it: an adjective to describe that offer or a phrase by Tommy2832 on english.stackexchange.com

Færd

3:06 AM

> corn:
> a tall plant grown that produces large yellow grains, which are eaten ...

(from an Oxford dictionary)

That grown seems ungrammatical.

tchrist

4:00 AM

Agreed.

Tonepoet

6:04 AM

@Færd I wonder what it's meant to be. A tall grown plant; a tall plant has grown or a tall plant grew?

Aayush Goyal

6:24 AM

Hi everyone!

Rubisco

7:38 AM

@Jasper I like all favors, if the ice cream is made correctly

@AayushGoyal hey

@Færd Not ungrammatical to my ears. Just bad word order.

Aayush Goyal

8:04 AM

Yep I agree @Rub

@Rubisco *

Rubisco

I agree with your agreement.

Aayush Goyal

Maybe you should have added pun not intended

:P

Færd

12:06 PM

@Tonepoet I suppose it was meant to summarize "a tall plant that is grown (= cultivated) and that produces ... " in a disastrous way.

@Rubisco Don't give too much credit to your ears. :)

@Jasper Me. I anticipate the bizarrest things at turning points. That's an irrelevant example BTW.

Færd

12:34 PM

Oh, and illogical and surprising are quite different.

SpringLearner

12:55 PM

Hi everybody

Rubisco

1:28 PM

Hi

SpringLearner

How are you doing?

Rubisco

@Færd (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

@SpringLearner Great, and motivated

SpringLearner

@Rubisco cool

Rubisco

@Færd Why would a post-modifier be ungrammatical there?

SpringLearner

Today is saturday and I am working from my workplace. I wanted my manager to know that I am working on weekend so that I will get a comp off

How would I send an email to manager?

shall I write de

dear xxx

FYI

I have worked today

regards,yyyy

Rubisco

1:30 PM

Well, not that short.

You will make a request in the future. Why not mention it in the letter?

SpringLearner

we have talked about it orally yesterday

and when ever I work on weekend, I get a comp off on any weekdays and it happened many times and I never send any emails.

When ever I need any comp off, I just say I need comp off on tommorow as I have worked on last weekend

Rubisco

Well, "I have worked today" sounds a bit weird as the only body of a letter.

Maybe add a little details.

How long you worked, from when to when

SpringLearner

from 10 AM to till now

user227867

1:56 PM

Just uploaded another masterpiece to my channel, lol.

user227867

I have been using Mint Cinnamon 64-bit for a day. So far it is very good.

user227867

@Tone You will be delighted to know that I have just ordered a copy of the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Revised Edition, 2016.

user227867

I also added a few more math books to my reading list, which now contains 28 books. But there are still many interesting topics I have not covered!

user227867

@Kit I see you now have 30 subscriptions on your channel. And your latest upload is another success. Congratulations!

user227867

@SpringLearner It should be 'from 10 AM till now', not 'from 10 AM to till now'.

Lembik

3:27 PM

hi..I am looking for the longest english language where all the vowels sounds are like the letter "a". Is that a suitable question

Tonepoet

4:00 PM

@lembik In this chatroom it might be. On the main website I'm pretty sure the question would be closed for being outside the scope of the help center definition of English, as being "mindless fun", since there is no grammatical purpose to it.

That's just my guess though.

Being more specific about it, the questions asked there should help with prose rather than prosody.

user227867

@Lembik I know of the word aardvark.

Tonepoet

4:15 PM

UGH!

Our search engine neglects the @ symbol!

Lembik

@Jasper I meant they sound like the letter "a" as in day and neigh etc.

@Tonepoet thanks

Tonepoet

@Lembik No problem.

Slender A, as Samuel Johnson would put it, although nobody here seems to understand any writing system regarding pronunciation other than International Phonetic Alphabet. =P

Mitch

5:27 PM

@Lembik That's a really good question for puzzles.stackexchange.com, but not particularly good for ELU or ELL

@Jasper aargh. I had 'adamant'

0

Q: Can we one-box etymonline links in ELU/ELL/Linguistics/Lang Learning chat?

For all the English Language sites, ELU, ELL, Linguistics, Language Learners (did I miss any), etymonline is a pretty heavily used resource. It provides very short definitions and longer etymologies, a very common discussion topic on all these sites. For example, who knew that the preposition 'd...

Vote early and often!!

Tonepoet

@Jasper @Mitch That's the wrong sound. You want the eɪ pronunciation...

Mitch

@Tonepoet letters are easier to write a regex for

Also, I'm having a hard time coming up with a word with exactly two 'ei' vowels.

Tonepoet

6:00 PM

@Mitch I am too to be honest.

Mitch

oooh I got one... 'Malay' even though that's a little borrowed.

Lembik

@Mitch :)

Mitch

or 'mêlée'. also borrowed

Lembik

I am not sure the first sound is right

I mean in the first syllable

Mitch

In English it's right

Lembik

6:08 PM

I think I pronounce the first e as in the e in bed

Mitch

that's closer to the french

Lembik

in any case.. what is the phonetic spelling for the letter "a"?

Mitch

what tonepoet gave

Lembik

oh right

thanks

Mitch

cave-gate would work except it's not a word.

playdate!

Lembik

6:10 PM

:)

Mitch

woohoo! we got 2!

(even if it is the tiniest bit of cheating using two words together)

Keep these mind

What does OT POB mean? (The first bit would be Off-Topic, I suppose.)

Mitch

I think the moby word lists have a pronunciation dictionary with a coded pronunciation.

Lembik

question submitted

Mitch

not IPA but at least it's readable. Should allow easier regex for strict searching

Lembik

6:12 PM

0

Q: Largest number of eɪ sounds in a word

This is a simple puzzle about English words. Which English word has the largest number of eɪ sounds in it? The phonetic sound eɪ is the same as the letter "A" or the "ay" in day or the "eigh" in "eight". To make it more like a competition, if two people get the same number of eɪ sounds, the wi...

english

@Mitch waylay :)

not cheating at all

Mitch

@Keepthesemind Off-Topic, Primarily Opinion Based

@Lembik even better

Keep these mind

@Mitch Tks

Lembik

but I am cheating by being the person who asked the questionj

Tonepoet

Hmm, wikitionary oneboxes, which is interesting...

Mitch

@Lembik If you already knew the answer that might be cheating.

@Tonepoet just saw my entirely forgotten request on ELU meta.

I suprised myself earlier not recognizing a post I had commented on yesterday.

Lembik

6:16 PM

a terrible cheating answer has been given already.

Tonepoet

@lembik You should note that the I.P.A. for potato is pəˈteɪtəʊ according to Collins.

Mitch

But I do remember posting a chat message yesterday about the tweet about the guy responding to his own SE comment a year later.

Tonepoet

So that comment that was asked makes absolutely no sense.

Lembik

@Tonepoet interesting!

@Tonepoet pəˈteɪtəʊ in the OED

Tonepoet

@Lembik Hmm, cambridge does have variable pronunciations for tomato, but only at the end, not the middle: It hasn't escaped my mind that tomato has variable pronunciation at that spot and may have been meant, but I think you're strictly looking for the eɪ sound and not the ɑː sound according to the recordings.

@lembik Ban hyphens and spaces.

If there's a recursive "word" that doesn't use one of those, it'll be interesting enough to merit an award anyway! =P

@Mitch We've been outdone already!

Keep these mind

6:35 PM

@Lembik It's not arbitrarily many, at least if you want the thing to exist. There are about 7,500 generations of modern humans.

Although the first one had a mother too.

So, anyone who beats 7,500 with another word, should still (reasonably) be a candidate.

Lembik

@Tonepoet I should have banned hyphens probably. Spaces are already banned

but the OED rule also works

it's just more of a pain to look up :)

Keep these mind

@Lembik How would that be a puzzle?

Tonepoet

@Keepthesemind Ask @Mitch who made the proposal.

Færd

@Rubisco I wasn't sure if it was.

I couldn't find it expressly stated anywhere that following a reduced relative clause (here, grown) with a defining relative clause (here, that produces...) is ungrammatical, but it just seemed so ugly that I thought it probably was. Because anything that's structurally too ugly is indeed ungrammatical.

> The people beaten who survived were taken to the hospital.
> The man questioned that was a suspect was released.
> Corn is a tall plant grown that produces yellow grains.

cringes

Would make a good question for ELL/U.

Lembik

@Keepthesemind what do you mean?

Keep these mind

6:43 PM

@Lembik You're just asking somebody to have their computer go through the OED...

Lembik

@Keepthesemind Only if they have a phonetic dictionary version

does anyone have that?

Keep these mind

@Lembik I guess we'll find out.

Lembik

@Keepthesemind also.. in much of life you can use a computer where it is more fun not to

as there is no money available.. people might choose to play it in the spirit it is meant

Tonepoet

@Keepthesemind @tchrist Can you tell me if this is possible with an O.E.D. subscription or your little grepping tool?

Lembik

@Tonepoet I have an OED subscription but you just get to use a web interface

I don't have a massive file on my hard drive :)

Mitch

6:48 PM

@Lembik placate and maintain are the only ones that aren't separable into two morphemes.

Tonepoet

@Lembik tchrist does which is part of why I asked him.

Lembik

I cleaned the whole thing up by banning hyphens now

Mitch

Schwa shouldn't be allowed

Lembik

@Mitch very nice

Mayday isn't two morphemes is it ?

It's a rescue call

Mitch

Arbitrary repeats shouldn't be allowed

Keep these mind

6:49 PM

@Lembik Did you exclude railway brain?

Lembik

@Mitch can you do that without hyphens?

@Keepthesemind those are two words

Keep these mind

@Lembik In the OED

Lembik

@Keepthesemind sorry do you mean it's a word in the OED?

Mitch

@Lembik oh. Hm.. in French it is two (m'aidez) in English it looks like two.

Or it is May Day

Lembik

It is Mayday I believe

Mitch

6:51 PM

@Lembik do what without hyphens?

Lembik

yes

Tonepoet

@Lembik Yes: Some people have this strange concept of open compound words, which is why I mentioned spaces

Lembik

@Tonepoet OK.. also banned :)

blimey this is tough :)

I think mayonnaise is the winning entry so far

Mitch

@Lembik No. it has a schwa

Lembik

Straighaway in fact

12 letters

explain the schwa point please?

meɪəˈneɪz

Mitch

6:55 PM

Mei uh neiz

Keep these mind

@Lembik Since when is the number of letters important?

Mitch

It has another vowel in there

Lembik

"To make it more like a competition, if two people get the same number of /eɪ/ sounds, the winner is the one with largest number of different spellings for the sound in the word. If people tie on that then it is longer word. "

Mitch

@Keepthesemind to distinguish answers with same number of vowels

Tonepoet

@Mitch Are you concerned about linking vowels?

Lembik

6:55 PM

@Tonepoet nope

Keep these mind

@Mitch I didn't see that among the rules.

Lembik

aha

I was worried people might get stuck at 2 :)

Mitch

@Tonepoet ?? A schwa is a vowel. Wth is a linking vowel?

Keep these mind

@Lembik So, mayonnaises could take the lead?

Mitch

@Keepthesemind the rules state that the vowels are only ei and no others

Lembik

6:57 PM

@Keepthesemind go for it :)

Tonepoet

@Mitch I dunno Mitch. I'm not a pronunciation guy. I only know about the I.P.A. from when we were discussing "eh".

Lembik

@Keepthesemind oh no.. it is shorter than straightaway

it has two of the relevant sounds

Mitch

Mayonnaises has 2 extra vowels

All the vowels are supposed to be 'ei'

Keep these mind

You two didn't really think this through, did ya?

Lembik

no...

you can have other vowels

and other consonants

it doesn't need to be exclusive

Mitch

6:59 PM

Well that seems too ... free

Lembik

can you do anything with it?

I mean can you use the freedom?

there is a word that gets 3 now by the way

Keep these mind

straightaways

Mitch

Antidisestablishmentarianism

Lembik

@Mitch how many of the relevant soudns?

Mitch

Lots of vowels. Surely there a really long word that has lots of ei

Lembik

7:00 PM

straightaways loses to mainstaysail

@Mitch well.. there might be

but I don't know what it is

Keep these mind

Is mainstaysail in the book?

mainstaysails?

Mitch

Usually puzzles like these are constrained where all fit the constraint

Lembik

mainstaysails is legit

Keep these mind

I win. Thanks

Lembik

you could annoy the answerer by posting it :)

Mitch

7:02 PM

Isn't 'staysail' pronounced 'stei sul' ?

Keep these mind

@Mitch No

Lembik

steɪseɪl is one option

Keep these mind

@Lembik I'm not on that site. You go tease him.

Mitch

@Keepthesemind looking it up, it seems that it is pronounced with two ei's by people who don't know how to pronounce it

Zing!

Keep these mind

@Mitch Yes? So?

Mitch

7:05 PM

@Keepthesemind puzzle answers should be clean and unambiguous

Tonepoet

@Lembik Maybe just ban indefinite recursion altogether too. Ahahahaha isn't exactly the relevant sound, but it's a recursive construction I hadn't figured 'til now.

Keep these mind

Rubisco

Also "naysayer"

Keep these mind

@Mitch Does that mean there can only be one pronunciation?

Mitch

Yeah the first one is a spelling pronunciation error like off-ten

Tonepoet

7:16 PM

@Mitch Bleh, if you people want to have often pronounced offen it shouldn't have a t in it. =P

This is especially so because it comes from oft, which does have the t pronounced.

Keep these mind

7:41 PM

@Lembik How does one pronounce palaeencephalon(s)?

Lembik

No idea!

Mitch

9:07 PM

@Tonepoet that's a silly rule to follow especially given how English tends towards lots of silent letters: listen, castle, anything with 'th', anything ending with 'e' etc etc etc

Tonepoet

9:18 PM

@Mitch Yeah, I know, even as I was writing that I was thinking about the word ballet, although french words like that are often a mess to pronounce. Do you say niche closer to nish or nitch? I generally prefer the pronunciation that sounds closer to how I think it reads if there are several potentially valid alternatives though, like Merriam-Webster gives with often..

user227867

10:16 PM

It's Sun morning here in Antarctica.

user227867

@Tonepoet Do you know where I can get a complete set of Charles Dickens novels in an affordable and attractive format?

user227867

I believe he has 15 novels, including one uncompleted one, and 5 Christmas novellas.

user227867

I can get the Penguin or Wordsworth Classics series, but there might be a better option than getting 15 paperbacks separately.

user227867

It will be good if there is a whole series with introductions to each novel by some literary experts.

tchrist

@Tonepoet Eh what's that that you're looking for now?

user227867

10:22 PM

The bird is chirping outside, but it is not a cock announcing sunrise.

user227867

@Mitch Here in Antarctica, I usually say 'of-en' without the t sound.

user227867

Warning to all: Never pour water into a television/computer that is burning inside. It will explode and you might die. Use a fire extinguisher.

user227867

Advice for all: The best place to place your fire extinguisher at home is in your bedroom, according to some fire experts.

Tonepoet

11:39 PM

@tchrist I'm looking for nothing but a conversation, otherwise I'd post a question with perfect compliance to the 4 score and 7 rules and regulations found in the unhelpfully hidden center. =P

(Tonepoet has no idea if there are actually 87 provisions in the help center.)

@Jasper I only know that Barnes & Noble sells five of the novels in a nice looking hardbound book and that ages ago Oxford made nice india paper editions.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…