English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

2:00 PM

In my world though when you step on a cockroach instead of a squishy crunch, you get a farting noise

M.A.Ramezani

@Mitch Like children toy?

Mitch

Unfortunately in my world I have to go. L8r. Ab2

M.A.Ramezani

Cya!

Mitch

No like a cockroach. Oh the farting? Yes.

what is txtspeak for bis spaeter?

No like a cockroach. Oh the farting? Yes.

Robusto

2

Q: Aphorisms that use two words in reverse order

I've found aphorisms often that play on the meaning of two words and their interaction and was wondering what one might call them. An example is the PJ Harvey song name: The whore hustles and the hustler whores. They are quite simple but interesting.

Dupe.

Damn, I coulda closed that by myself, but when I close-voted the question was unintelligible so I voted to close based on "Unclear what you're asking."

RegDwigнt

2:19 PM

@Cerberus yeah this is probably one of the best examples for demonstrating how "effective" is not the same as "efficient".

> what the deference between 'inter-city' and 'intercity'

It is the same deference as that between "difference" and "derévérence".

Cerberus

2:57 PM

Right!

Just so.

M.A.Ramezani

Left!

Cerberus

Immer geradeaus!

M.A.Ramezani

I always wondered what the differences between inter-molecular forces and intermolecular forces have been.

Except the fact that the spellchecker knows the latter as a misspelling.

Cerberus

Then maybe that's it.

M.A.Ramezani

But again, it knows covalent as a misspelling too. O.o

Robusto

3:07 PM

Well, I always wondered why, in the Alien series, they specified that the creatures had "molecular acid" for blood. All acid is molecular acid. Sheesh.

M.A.Ramezani

@Robusto It sounds geeky.

Okuma.Tony

Suppose you post a question, it gets several answers and votes and you realize/are informed the question needs major work. Do you delete it and start over or fix it and risk changing the originally interpreted meaning?

Robusto

@Okuma.Tony Fix it.

RegDwigнt

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How do you personally handle these problems [of centralized data storage], how do you protect your data?
Schwarzenegger: Well, for example I never buy anything online. Not even under a fake name. I have other people do that for me.

So... um... you do buy things online under a fake name, after all?

M.A.Ramezani

@Okuma.Tony If there are upgoated answers, you can't delete it.

Robusto

3:11 PM

@RegDwigнt Ah, Der Spiegel . . . is there any depth to which you won't stoop?

Okuma.Tony

@M.A.Ramezani Perfect. I like answers without a choice.

M.A.Ramezani

@RegDwigнt That's an intellectual work-around to the question.

skill patrol

Goated :D

Robusto

Mar 24 '11 at 14:17, by Robusto

Everything that is not forbidden is compulsory!

terdon

@Robusto But fattening.

skill patrol

3:13 PM

Better than downgoated

M.A.Ramezani

@Okuma.Tony What's wrong with an edit, BTW? If you'll nullify answers, you shouldn't be changing anything in the first place.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Yeah that interview in particular is quite something. He throws marketese around like "there is a lot of text in this movie", "I have to talk a lot so that the movie works for people who'd never seen the ones before it", "it's an emotional story", which are euphemisms for "it sucks", "forced-exposition-is-forced trope", and "it sucks", respectively — and they don't call him out on it a single time.

M.A.Ramezani

@skillpatrol Downgoats drive a lot of people crazy. Trust me. I've been wasting time in like, 20 metas, reading downgoat whines.

skill patrol

I see.

RegDwigнt

And these are just examples. Basically you can just tell that Schwarzenegger never attended the interview, and neither did Spiegel Online, but rather the film studio just invented it start to finish.

skill patrol

3:19 PM

:O fake commercialism, what a surprise

RegDwigнt

Hold on a second, are they telling me the girl in Terminator Genisys is the same as that in Game of Thrones?

M.A.Ramezani

Really, is that a surprise? Or am I missing the pun?

@RegDwigнt Squinting

RegDwigнt

Haha lol roflmao I always said she'd be easily OVER 9000 hawter if not for the stupid fake dyed hair.

M.A.Ramezani

Wha' are you getting at?

RegDwigнt

I am getting at that she is hideous as fuck in what I've seen of Game of Thrones, but an eye candy in what I've seen of Genisys.

In fact, forget the "I am getting at" part.

M.A.Ramezani

3:22 PM

@RegDwigнt Yeah, the normal human is always hotter.

RegDwigнt

That's not even my point. My point was that the poorly dyed hair was dyed poorly.

They forgot her eyebrows.

So she looks like some creepy monster.

And nobody gives a shit, including herself.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Yeah, in GoT it looks like they used real bleach on her hair. Maybe even lye.

Anonymous

@Okuma.Tony Fixing the question is good, but you have to be careful not to invalidate the existing answers.

RegDwigнt

I have to thank everyone involved, because had she looked like she does in Genisys, I would have to have watched this entire Game of Thrones thing, and I don't want to have to have watched this entire Game of Thrones thing.

M.A.Ramezani

OK, time to confess: I've never watched GoT.

RegDwigнt

3:25 PM

You are my personal Hero.

Anonymous

If you discover you need to ask something else, you might be better off asking it separately, explaining about the previous question and how it led to your current question, and so on.

RegDwigнt

You want it to stay that way, you know what to do.

M.A.Ramezani

I know what to do, I know what to do, don't distract me!

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Less time wasted than reading the books, though.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto seeing how I wasted an hour on the book, but only a total of maybe ten minutes on the series, you sir are precisely right.

M.A.Ramezani

3:29 PM

What is a book? O.O

RegDwigнt

What is a book?
Impetuous fire.
What is a maid?
Ice and desire.
The world wags on

A rose will bloom,
It then will fade
So does a book.
So does the fairest maid.

Robusto

Romeo and Juliet What is a Youth? (1968) Nino Rota

►

M.A.Ramezani

So if a maid fades, the book will fade too?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto no way. Someone already used these exact words before? OMG. Thank you for telling me.

Robusto

It was an amplifying reference for people not as versed in drivel as you and I, not a rebuttal or a chastisement. Lighten up.

RegDwigнt

3:32 PM

Same at you.

NO U.

NO U!

NO U2!

I was never a peacekeeper.

Let's fight.

RegDwigнt

Sorry, I can't fight peace. I am already a freedom fighter.

Priorities, priorities.

skill patrol

3:34 PM

Ding, ding. Round #1

Robusto

Street Fighting Man - Rolling Stones

Hmm, that's an ultimatum.

RegDwigнt

Ultima Technical University of Munich?

Robusto

And something just short of an ultimatum is a penultimatum.

skill patrol

3:35 PM

Aaaah a first round knockout!!!

RegDwigнt

Nonono, penultimatum is an injury to the male member.

Anonymous

Then what are antepenultimata?

RegDwigнt

Yes.

M.A.Ramezani

Passes out

RegDwigнt

You can't pass out if you've not even passed in.

Robusto

3:37 PM

@snailboat The antepenultimatum married the unclepenultimatum, silly.

RegDwigнt

And for all you know your exam prof would be Gandalf.

skill patrol

::splashes water on @M.A.Ramezani::

M.A.Ramezani

Passes in

Robusto

Isn't it iftar there yet?

M.A.Ramezani

An hour and 5 mins left.

RegDwigнt

3:38 PM

@Robusto 'Unclepenultimatum' means clepenultimatum? What a country!

M.A.Ramezani

P*sses in

Robusto

@M.A.Ramezani But who's counting?

M.A.Ramezani

OKay that's enough phrasal verbs for today. . .

skill patrol

Pissed off?

M.A.Ramezani

@Robusto My toes.

RegDwigнt

3:39 PM

@Robusto phone.

@skillpatrol pussed off.

Robusto

Phonicular.

RegDwigнt

Jammo, jammo 'ncoppa jammo ja!

M.A.Ramezani

What the ಠ_ಠ?

Robusto

Jammo jámas.

RegDwigнt

ANDREA BOCELLI (HQ) FUNICULI FUNICULA

►

M.A.Ramezani

3:42 PM

Oh crud.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Jammo say jammo again.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt That was the reference.

I think I'll go into Russian.SE and vote to close every question as "Not clear what you're asking."

RegDwigнt

@Robusto yeah but apparently you were right about not-as-versed people. I am learning this the hard way.

M.A.Ramezani

BTW for the curious, ಠ_ಠ is our meme in The Periodic Table: chat.stackexchange.com/…

Robusto

@M.A.Ramezani Oh, so that's where YouTube and 4chan got it.

RegDwigнt

3:43 PM

@Robusto for that you'd first have to get 125 by answering questions. For that, you'd have to understand the questions. For that, the questions would have to be clear. Can you spell Catchski-22evich yet?

M.A.Ramezani

Yep.

RegDwigнt

I mean you'd have to get 125 points. But fuck it, it actually makes more sense as is. So I am leaving it as is.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Don't rain on my charade.

I think you have to have a chat with your parents. It's not up to use to introduce you to the facts of life. — Robusto 22 secs ago

Too mean?

RegDwigнt

No?

The question is unclear as [the process of breeding or generating the next generation].

M.A.Ramezani

Nah.

But people perceive things as harsh all of the time, so be prepared.

Robusto

3:46 PM

PORTER WAGONER * * I WANNA GO HOME

►

M.A.Ramezani

Heck, someone flamed me back at chem.SE the other day for this comment of mine:

RegDwigнt

Haha. They flamed you on chem. Was it with a Bunsenbrenner?

M.A.Ramezani

> Please don't add "thanks" as answers. Invest some time in the site and you will gain sufficient privileges to upvote answers you like, which is the chem.SE way of saying thank you.

@RegDwigнt Yes. Burned through my last silicon.

RegDwigнt

@M.A.Ramezani see, the only problem with that is that it's too polite.

M.A.Ramezani

Yes.

RegDwigнt

3:48 PM

It is clear that you are euphemizing. And that's what people don't like about it.

M.A.Ramezani

I should've used the P-word at least.

Robusto

You can say "privileges" . . .

RegDwigнt

Yeah. I found "cunting" to be a very good substitute for "please".

Robusto

It's the all-purpose madlib.

M.A.Ramezani

No man, chem.SE ain't ELU. And it was a first-time poster.

It's a heaven there. You don't know it. . .

We don't have the big cities' problem yet.

For the goodness sake, mods don't delete +1 comments there even when they're truly noise.

RegDwigнt

3:52 PM

If you have time to delete +1 comments, then you are clearly not in a big city of any kind.

In a big city, nobody cares if you leave a +1 comment, or a dump on the sidewalk twice every block.

Looking at you, Paris.

Anonymous

Japanese.SE is more like a small town. :-)

Anonymous

田舎.SE

skill patrol

What part of the big city is that?

RegDwigнt

And in a really big city, people don't care for +1 comments, but do care about not having any person or animal shit in public, ever.

Robusto

@snailboat inaka.se? Does it work as a domain name?

RegDwigнt

3:55 PM

That's basically the difference between Moscow and Paris.

Anonymous

@Robusto Well, it could.

Anonymous

S'not registered yet, though.

RegDwigнt

@skillpatrol try Champs Elysées. Or any of the adjacent streets. For best results, wear white shoes and look up in the sky.

Robusto

See? I remember some kanjiae's.

RegDwigнt

Oh crap I should be muting commies. Why is nobody ever telling me that.

Au boudoir !

Robusto

3:57 PM

Hey, you should be muting commies!

skill patrol

Later pal

Robusto

Too late.

M.A.Ramezani

@RegDwigнt Mute commies!

NOW!

Anonymous

@Robusto Yay!

M.A.Ramezani

Whatever.

Anonymous

3:58 PM

I like words with irregular plurals, and kanjiae's has to be the least regular plural I've seen in years

Robusto

@snailboat It's appalling how much I've forgotten. hangs head in shame

skill patrol

You should be ashamed of yourself you, you, polyglot :-)

Robusto

I'm working on a fresh language now. But I still like to relax with Japanese calligraphy. Grab my fude and a sumi stick and go to it. Very peaceful.

Anonymous

Oh! I love calligraphy. Not that I'm good at it, but I've always loved writing Japanese, even just regular ペン字.

Anonymous

I take lots of notes on paper.

Robusto

4:02 PM

Yeah, me too. There's something delicious about writing that stuff.

Damkerng T.

@Robusto おいしです！

Robusto

@DamkerngT. Yup. Except I think you mean おいしい, not おいし.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That is part of a subclass of adjectives ending with 〜しい, most of which refer to subjective or emotional states

Damkerng T.

@Robusto Sorry about my broken Japanese! :D

Robusto

Not a problem. That's how we learn.

Damkerng T.

4:07 PM

@snailboat Ahh... Thanks! I always thought it was a short vowel. It sounds like a short vowel to me.

Robusto

And you form the negative with 〜しくない.

おいしくない = not delicious

Damkerng T.

Neat. I learned a new word!

skill patrol

Now the trick is to remember it :-)

Robusto

That's one of the big problems Westerners (not including you, @Damkerng) have with Japanese: not giving enough length to repeated vowel sounds.

Westerners literally wouldn't hear a difference between おいしい and おいし.

Well, unless they had good ears and were listening hard.

Damkerng T.

I guess I may be able to hear it as おいしい if I try to listen carefully. But I'm usually not a very careful person. :D

Robusto

4:11 PM

What is your native language?

M.A.Ramezani

I wonder how western I am.

Damkerng T.

Thai.

Robusto

I know nothing of Thai. Is it an isochronous language?

Damkerng T.

Tell me a little about isochronous languages.

Robusto

May 23 at 13:20, by Robusto

They find it very hard to pronounce languages that merge sounds. Japanese is isochronous, meaning all syllables must have more or less the same length in time.

Damkerng T.

4:13 PM

Ahh... Thai's not such a language. It's syllabic-timed, imho.

M.A.Ramezani

Interesting.

Anonymous

I believe the phonetics of Thai vowel length are somewhat different from those of Japanese

Anonymous

Even though the contrast is phonemic in both languages

M.A.Ramezani

Well I didn't know such thing existed. Persian has short and long vowels, abiding Arabic.

The Turkish system of vowels is really complicated.

And English, well, all of you know.

Robusto

Yeaaaaahhh.

Damkerng T.

4:15 PM

@M.A.Ramezani English is stress-timed, but everyone here knows that, I think.

M.A.Ramezani

Somehow that came out more like yawning to me @Rob.

@DamkerngT. Yepppppppppppppp.

Robusto

I'm tired. Sosiouxme.

Damkerng T.

@skillpatrol I can still remember it!

M.A.Ramezani

Offf. 25 mins to iftar.

Robusto

I think I shall go home now. Yes, that is a good idea.

Damkerng T.

4:17 PM

(By tying it to kurenai)

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. OMG.

Anonymous

If you actually measure them, you find that Japanese morae technically aren't all equal in length. But I think the psychological or perceptual reality is that they're more or less equal, and I think it's useful to learn them that way

skill patrol

@DamkerngT. practice practice practice

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Do what by tying what to kurenai?

Damkerng T.

@Robusto Drive (or whatever mean you do) home safely.

@snailboat Remembering kunai.

Anonymous

4:18 PM

A-ha

M.A.Ramezani

Logical conclusion: All of the languages are weird.

Anonymous

Think of it as a construction: oishi-i → oishi-ku nai

Anonymous

The -ku form allows you to add the negative word nai to the end.

Damkerng T.

I guess I can do that with most adjectives.

(Bad me. I still haven't learned Japanese grammar properly.)

Anonymous

Yes, you can pretty much always replace the -i ending on an adjective with -ku

Damkerng T.

4:23 PM

@M.A.Ramezani Wait until Skynet makes some.

M.A.Ramezani

Makes some what? Soup?

Damkerng T.

Languages. Skynet languages may be inhuman and inhumane at the same time.

Robusto

5:02 PM

@snailboat We discussed this before, and what you're saying is technically true, but you have to understand how "keep the beat" before you get to play around with it. It's completely a mistake to ignore the underlying structure or instead to superimpose some Western artifact on top of it.

Anonymous

What is the Western artifact in question? The syllable?

Robusto

I'm just talking about Western reduction and/or extension of vowel sounds.

Anonymous

Ah, I see

Robusto

I really had that beaten into me when I was learning Japanese. And while some repeated syllables get "reduced" in Japanese, they're still spoken with respect to a timing structure.

Anonymous

I didn't start learning Japanese until I was a teenager, and it took my brain quite a while to start really recognizing short and long sounds

Robusto

5:10 PM

I was older than that when I started. But I caught onto it once it had been pounded in to my head. ^_^

Anonymous

Some non-repeated thingies do get shortened. 格好いい→カッコいい

Anonymous

体育（たいいく）→たいく

Anonymous

Some get lengthened: 女王（じょおう）→じょうおう

Robusto

Yeah, but again, it's still respecting the timed framework even when that happens. In other words, syllables may be added or subtracted, but the timing is still honored.

Or I should say the practice of syllable-timing is still honored.

M.A.Ramezani

Sorry to stop your, Japanese Overflow, but I have a question: Is the chatroom ID also its number? In other words, is this room literally the 95th room in SE?

Robusto

5:14 PM

And when someone stretches a syllable, like in masakaaaaaaa it's obviously an emphasis.

Anonymous

There are other SE chat networks, including the Stack Overflow network

Robusto

Hmm, why isn't my hiragana keyboard working today?

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat I know that.

Robusto

Ah, because I had it turned off. Dummy.

Anonymous

Or are they integrated?

Anonymous

5:15 PM

I only use SE chat.

Robusto

Anyway, bike time. Laterz.

Anonymous

No, they're still separate, looks like.

M.A.Ramezani

Me too. I also once met The Tavern.

@Robusto Bike from my side too.

Anonymous

Looks like the Stack Overflow chat is a few days older.

Anonymous

So SE-wide, this is something later than the 95th room.

M.A.Ramezani

5:19 PM

Hmm.

Anonymous

But on chat.stackexchange.com, I believe it is the 95th room...?

M.A.Ramezani

Maybe.

Anonymous

Well, the number is increased by one each time someone makes a room.

Anonymous

And this room was created not long after SE chat was created.

Anonymous

There could be other unknowns in the process I know nothing about.

Cerberus

5:29 PM

Who are these people?

> A. Mom and dad celebrating the 10th anniversary of their local shop.

> B. Two of the most powerful leaders in the world.

M.A.Ramezani

I'm a molecule, I don't know how humans are supposed to answer that.

Cerberus

By looking at the picture.

Your name is not very molecular, by the way!

M.A.Ramezani

That's my humanoid disguise.

You now know too much.

Cerberus

In that case, it is working very well.

terdon

@Cerberus C. Two failed politicians attempting to impose their shortsighted view of Europe on the rest of us.

Cerberus

5:32 PM

I had no idea you were a molecule until you said so.

@terdon Hehe.

At least Hollande kind of supports Greece.

Were you surprised at the 61%?

M.A.Ramezani

@Cerberus Well duh! Look at my selfie.

Cerberus

@terdon I am surprised that you should still have Internet access BTW.

@M.A.Ramezani Too small.

terdon

Tell me about it.

M.A.Ramezani

Let

terdon

We'll see for how long.

M.A.Ramezani

5:33 PM

me

make

it

bigger

Cerberus

But seriously, it has become harder for northern Europe to dictate Greece now.

@M.A.Ramezani Oh, my, you have a big molecule, grandma.

terdon

@Cerberus Yes. I was expecting far less of a difference.

Cerberus

Right.

terdon

@Cerberus Really? Why? The government was elected on a mandate to end austerity. Why does a vote on a specific proposal that was no longer on the table give them more power?

Cerberus

Only now does northern Europe realise how fed up Greece is with austerity, even if it is their own former governments' fault.

terdon

5:34 PM

More to the point, why should the technocrats care what the Greeks said? Or the politicians? They need to deal with their own voters and already knew the opinion of the Greek ones.

Cerberus

@terdon The government had almost folded to the latest demands; now Europe knows they will be less amenable.

terdon

@Cerberus I very much doubt that, there's nothing new here. As I said, that was the entire content of the current bunch of idiot's election campaign when they ousted the previous band of idiots.

Cerberus

@terdon Because the technocrats really, really hate seeing Greece drop the Euro.

terdon

@Cerberus They won't. They will ask for basically the same because, at this point, there's no other solution.

@Cerberus That's never going to happen, there would be a revolution here.

80% of public opinion is pro euro.

Cerberus

@terdon Even so, Tsipras was willing to negotiate quite a bit; agreement was almost reached.

terdon

5:36 PM

@Cerberus Yes, and then he backed down because his party wouldn't stand for it.

Some political balls!

Cerberus

@terdon Or perhaps they will give in a little bit more, just enough...

terdon

@Cerberus Ask that ass of a minister you guys have :(

Cerberus

@terdon Umm why should that depend on Greece? If Europe wants to kick Greece out of the zone, I'm sure it can be done...

terdon

@Cerberus Bingo

Now explain that to the Greeks.

Popular opinion is that the No vote means "Yes to the euro but no austerity", otherwise known as "money for nothing and chicks for free".

Cerberus

@terdon And now Europe knows that it is absolutely impossible for Tsipras to concede to too many more austerities, like a wall; perhaps that will force Europe's hand, where in the past it thought it had more room to manoeuvre.

terdon

5:38 PM

Now why they expect European leaders to accept that is beyond me.

@Cerberus I don't see how. I very much hope so but I just don't see how. He already had a mandate for it.

What more does he have now?

Cerberus

Don't you think most Greeks realise that voting no could mean some degree of chaos for Greece?

terdon

Plus, he didn't even have the decency or intelligence to put austerity itself to the vote. Instead, he only asked us to vote on a specific version of the agreement. Now, he will just accept a similar one.

@Cerberus Our government was swearing blind that we could never leave the euro.

People believed that. Many were foolish enough to think that a No vote would open the banks.

A new law passed today keeps them closed for another couple of days. Obviously.

Cerberus

I'm sure they knew this could mean more chaos for Greece. People are not stupid, especially now that they have seen some chaos.

terdon

@Cerberus Many are. More are uninformed. Most are desperate.

This offered them hope. False hope but hope nevertheless.

Our idiot PM was promising an agreement within 48 hours of a No vote.

No idea how.

Cerberus

Uninformed, sure, but not uninformed enough to know that no deal could mean no money and no open banks.

terdon

5:42 PM

Now they're hedging and talking about "a few days"

Cerberus

I still think some sort of agreement will be reached.

terdon

@Cerberus Oh yes, absolutely! That is precisely what people thought. The common wisdom here is that the ECB closed the banks out of spite so if we leave the euro they will open again as if by magic.

Cerberus

Don't forget that this has been a European tactic: give the Greeks a taste of chaos to force them to accept their terms. That backfired, so now they may switch to plan B.

terdon

@Cerberus I think so too. But it will not be good, it will contain austerity measures and it could have been reached months ago.

Cerberus

Quite possibly.

terdon

5:43 PM

@Cerberus That would involve admitting to their voters that they were wrong. Not very likely.

Cerberus

Nah.

The tactics were never shared with voters.

terdon

Shoeble's (or however the hell you spell it) ridiculously popular because of his harsh stance.

Cerberus

Schäuble.

terdon

Thanks

The Greek government has been lying to us in unprecedented levels. And that is saying something.

People honestly believe that we are now going to get money from Europe and no austerity.

Cerberus

Pronounced /'ʃoʲ.blə/ (ish).

terdon

5:45 PM

That is a dream. The government is living in a Stalinist cuckoo land.

I would have been a natural supporter if they weren't quite as criminally insane.

I agree with most of their rhetoric (bar the nationalistic grandstanding), I just don't see it as a realistic option.

Cerberus

Yeah that is the problem.

terdon

I mean, we had our (ex, happily) finance minister tweet that "capitol controls go against democracy" 4 hours before imposing them!

Cerberus

Haha.

Well, perhaps he was forced to instate them?

terdon

High level government officials stating that "We didn't expect the Europeans to be so intransigent". Why the hell not? They had made it crystal clear for years!

@Cerberus Of course he was but he knew perfectly well that it would happen. Hell, I did, how couldn't he?

They're living in their beautiful world, they're basically classic upper middle class left wing intellectuals who haven't really been affected by the crisis and presume to speak for "the common man".

Look at this asshole who even had the gall to state last week that he and his wife will not be standing in line at the ATMs with the rest of us because, and I quote, "we live a frugal life".

This is his frugal life:

parismatch.com/Actu/Economie/…

M.A.Ramezani

@terdon They need to answer the media somehow.

terdon

5:51 PM

@M.A.Ramezani They need to be aware that this is not a game and they're playing with people's lives. Mine and that of my children and grandchildren to be.

M.A.Ramezani

They do know that. But it's the selfish nature of humans that is a problem.

terdon

The very image of frugality.

M.A.Ramezani

@terdon OMG they're starving! Save 'em!

terdon

@M.A.Ramezani Honestly, I don't think they do. This asshole certainly doesn't. He is an expert in game theory and treats this as a model.

Cerberus

@terdon We still don't know how intransigent Europe will be in the end!

@terdon Fair enough.

M.A.Ramezani

5:54 PM

@terdon They always do. It's not not knowing; it's forgetting. . .

Cerberus

@terdon I know he once figures in this television programme to show off his apparently very nice house...

terdon

@Cerberus Well, this is precisely what most of us who bothered to read the news expected. How out of touch do you have to be? More to the point, you have MPs in the european parliament, you have connections, it's your job to know how they will react. Don't give me this "Wow, I really didn't expect it" crap!

@Cerberus Frugal, m'boy, frugal.

M.A.Ramezani

Word of the day: frugal

terdon

At least the new finance minister is a softly spoken, low key, non-criminally-insane person.

Cerberus

I don't think it is easy to predict how intransigent Brussels will turn out to be when the chips are down.

@terdon But no less of a hardliner, I read.

terdon

5:56 PM

@Cerberus We've been in constant negotiations for 5 years. It is their responsibility to be informed.

@Cerberus No, but style is extremely important. He's far less "in your face".

Cerberus

@terdon And every time, Europe have shovelled some money on Greece.

@terdon That may work better in negotiations, to be sure.

terdon

@Cerberus Each time making things worse, not better, sadly.

^^ Exactly

user116848

@terdon Hi terdon. I am sorry to hear about your country.

terdon

Hi Arrow, thanks.

Cerberus

@terdon Is the money medicine or heroin?

terdon

5:57 PM

@Cerberus Heroin. It goes straight to paying off debt while also increasing overall debt.

Wonderful idea. You are deep in debt? No problem, here let me lend you some more.

If these idiots had toned down the rhetoric and gone in as polite but firm supplicants instead of screaming beggars, we might have had a chance.

Cerberus

Or perhaps it is more like methadon, buying some time for Greece to reform its finances (as we discussed, they have already improved greatly, even though they are still not where they should be).

terdon

But no, we had to compare Schäuble to Hitler and then ask him for money.

Cerberus

And terrorists, don't forget that.

terdon

Indeed

Cerberus

I read that Europe specifically wanted Varoufakis out of their meetings.

M.A.Ramezani

5:59 PM

@Cerberus It is.

Cerberus

Right.

terdon

I am convinced that all we had to do was give them a way to back down gracefully. The Greek government seem to forget that these are people and like all people unlikely to respond well to being yelled at.

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