English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

terdon

12:00 PM

@skillpatrol Huh?

skill patrol

I mean all the big corporations using the governments to make themselves richer everyday.

terdon

@skillpatrol And that is related to 911 how? Also, you think that's an American phenomenon?

skill patrol

The president knew all about the attack before he was told.

terdon

Our government was buying lightbulbs to the tune of ~3000̛€ a pop from Siemens.

skill patrol

Bin Laden was on the CIA payroll.

terdon

12:04 PM

@skillpatrol Hardly surprising. He caused it with his idiotic foreign policy. And yes, I know about the warning the CIA had apparently issued. Not sure I buy it but I don't rule it out either.

@skillpatrol Of course.

Was, anyway.

skill patrol

I count that as "corruption."

Like I said, it is a hard term to clearly define.

terdon

@skillpatrol That's not corruption. If true, it is criminal but not corrupt. A traitor is not corrupt, he's a traitor.

skill patrol

Huh?

Criminals are not corrupt?

terdon

No.

Robusto

Politicians may be corrupt and therefore engaging in criminal behavior. It depends on where you want to draw the line.

skill patrol

12:09 PM

@terdon What does "corruption" mean to you?

terdon

@skillpatrol Abusing your power for personal gain.

skill patrol

Exactly.

Robusto

Which can be criminal.

terdon

If I go out and kill someone I am not corrupt, but I am criminal.

Robusto

As I said, it depends on where you want to draw the line.

skill patrol

12:11 PM

If you kill for money.

terdon

Or, as Ambrose Bierce put it:

skill patrol

then?

terdon

> CORRUPT, adj. In politics, holding an office of trust or profit.

@skillpatrol Why would you be corrupt? Who voted for you? How are you abusing your power for personal gain? You're just a killer, a criminal but not corrupt.

skill patrol

Who decides this definition?

The victims?

terdon

The dictionary.

Cerberus

12:15 PM

Hello, dictionary.

skill patrol

Ok, that clears everything up -_-

terdon

> In philosophical, theological, or moral discussions, corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquire a personal benefit. Corruption may include many activities including bribery and embezzlement. Government, or 'political', corruption occurs when an office-holder or other governmental employee acts in an official capacity for personal gain.

from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption

@Cerberus Hello yourself.

Damkerng T.

Hello, everyone.

terdon

> : dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers)

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corruption

@DamkerngT. o/

Damkerng T.

Well, even machines or code can be corrupt, too.

Robusto

12:17 PM

@terdon: Level 18 in Duolingo Spanish as of today.

skill patrol

The OED has had its share of scandals.

terdon

@Robusto Bien hecho!

Robusto

Muchas gracias.

terdon

@DamkerngT. So can food, if you want to go archaic, but that's not the meaning under discussion.

Damkerng T.

@terdon I know, I know. My timing was bad, I think. :-)

skill patrol

12:19 PM

Hi pal @DamkerngT. :-)

Damkerng T.

@Robusto Konbanwa

@skillpatrol Hi!

Robusto

TIL that so-called "Arabic" numerals are actually Indian.

Faheem Mitha

Gym time. Bye guys.

Robusto

So it was India that came up with the number system and the concept of zero and negative numbers and all that.

Damkerng T.

@FaheemMitha Bye!

skill patrol

12:20 PM

@DamkerngT. It's always a good time to see you pal.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto So rumor has it. But we can't actually check.

Damkerng T.

@skillpatrol Thanks! Same to you!

Faheem Mitha

At least the zero. India is very proud of the zero.

skill patrol

Zero is the gateway to hell.

Robusto

I've been reading about the "Vedic" math, in which axioms are stated as sutras. Interesting.

Damkerng T.

12:22 PM

@FaheemMitha And big numbers. I can't remember the biggest number India has ever used in the ancient time.

Robusto

Also, that Indians used words in place of numbers, and that one of the words for "four" was/is vulva. ^_^

Now, if Indians could only learn to speak English, we'd have no trouble at all.

skill patrol

I didn't mean to offend you in anyway @terdon :-)

Just looking at the big picture.

34 mins ago, by skill patrol

I dont believe those stats :P

Damkerng T.

@Robusto Wait, I think most Indians already do speak English.

Robusto

You would be wrong.

skill patrol

"most"?

Damkerng T.

12:27 PM

Admittedly, I don't have enough data to make a good assertion.

Faheem Mitha

@DamkerngT. No

skill patrol

Hindi?

just guessing :-)

Robusto

About 10% of the Indians I have had contact with speak really good English. The rest range from faulty to entirely inadequate.

Damkerng T.

nods

Robusto

Some are so bad I can't even rely on simple statements being given/received correctly.

Damkerng T.

12:29 PM

Looks like I've had contact with the 10% most of the time.

Faheem Mitha

Ok, mini pop quiz. How many people here know who Rebecca West was? No peeking.

Robusto

Them: It will be red.
Me: Just to confirm, it will be red?
Them: No no! Not red!

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto What is your sample set?

Damkerng T.

@FaheemMitha not raising hand

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Couple hundred. Developers, mostly.

Cerberus

12:30 PM

@terdon We see lots of rumours today.

Robusto

If pressed, I might up the 10% to 15% or even 20%. But that's about as far as it goes.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto No, I mean from what walks of life? Occupation, location?

Gym time. Bye, guys.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha I said "Developers, mostly."

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Software developers? Ok.

Sorry, didn't see that above.

Robusto

And many of them are in the United States, but many are in India as well.

Faheem Mitha

12:32 PM

@Robusto ok. That is an entirely atypical sample of India.

As I am sure you are aware.

Robusto

My statement is still accurate.

3 mins ago, by Robusto

About 10% of the Indians I have had contact with speak really good English. The rest range from faulty to entirely inadequate.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha Are you suggesting the percentage is higher in India on average?

Robusto

". . . of the Indians I have had contact with . . ."

skill patrol

worldometers.info/world-population/india-population

terdon

@Robusto Ah yes, I was taught that in the cult my parents belonged to when I was a kid. One of the few good things about that group of eejits.

@skillpatrol Offend me? How? No offense taken anyway :)

skill patrol

12:37 PM

Estimated to be #1 in 15 years :O

Robusto

@terdon Cult? What cult was that?

terdon

@Cerberus That we do. I'm glued to the various news outlets.

@Robusto omilosmeleton.gr/en/default_en.asp

Robusto

Weird.

terdon

Very

Cerberus

@terdon Naturally.

user116848

12:43 PM

Hi!

Cerberus

But retracting the referendum? That sounds weird.

Hi!

terdon

@Cerberus I haven't heard that one. I very much wish they would though.

I don't see how they can now that it's been voted in parliament.

Cerberus

I had the same thought.

It is one of the rumours I read.

Perhaps parliament itself can retract it.

terdon

Great. Talk about responsibility and reliability.

Cerberus

> [Grecified names of Dutch cartoon characters] refuse to help.

user116848

12:55 PM

So we are discussing politics, cool.

Cerberus

> "Yeah, you had to become Christians!"

terdon

@Cerberus Heh :)

Cerberus

Apparently, they see -eus as Greek.

They probably took Greek in high school.

As is compulsory at the highest level of education.

Robusto

1:07 PM

What is the {y} emoji supposed to represent?

skill patrol

thumbs up

Robusto

How is that a thumbs up?

skill patrol

dunno, i don't come up with these things...

user116848

Today it is like internet is working one minute for me then stopping.

Robusto

The Internet is fine. Your connection to it probably sucks.

user116848

1:09 PM

Stupid internet providers here. Maybe it is the country, I blame my country and its leaders.

user116848

I am not proud to say this but I think I come from the most fucked up country in this room.

user116848

Can’t complain though.

user116848

Pros and cons everywhere.

skill patrol

you got that right pal

user116848

I know heh.

skill patrol

1:12 PM

Robusto

Oh, it's a "yes" . . .

Y for yes, N for no.

Duh.

Cerberus

@terdon A crowd fund has been set up: indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund#/story

So far, they have collected €120,000 for Greece. But it was only started today.

If every European pays €3, we can pay off the IMF for this week.

terdon

Huh! That's pretty cool!

Cerberus

> Today I had this conversation with a girl:

-What happened to your feet?
'I got stung by a Jellyfish. It really hurt, my friend had to pee on it.'

Friend (in whispering voice): 'you don't have to tell everyone about it!'

-Why did you do that?
'We saw it in an episode of Friends, it didn't help though.'

(Not my anecdote.)

user116848

Yeah I remember that episode of Friends.

user116848

1:22 PM

Friends is so common.

user116848

Used to be I mean.

terdon

scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-urinating

user116848

1:39 PM

Today we are seeing some winds here. It is 34 C here now which seems pretty cool to me since I have experienced the heatwave which lasted over a month.

user116848

> Death Toll From Heat Wave in Karachi, Pakistan, Hits 1,000

user116848

In other news 1200.

user116848

nytimes.com/2015/06/26/world/asia/…

Robusto

2:45 PM

@tchrist: Are there, however slight, positive connotations to grande and negative connotations to enorme? What I mean is, would you not use grande to describe a sickness, perhaps? Una gran enfermedad feels wrong to me, but it could just be my Anglo background complaining. Similarly, I can't seem to unyoke enorme from enormity.

terdon

2:58 PM

I don't think so. There's nothing strange about un gran problema for example.

And oportunidad enorme also seems fine to me.

There may be slight connotations but they are certainly not absolute and both can be used for good or bad things.

Robusto

Just my background associations, then.

tchrist

3:26 PM

un gran problema ≠ un problema grande

terdon

@tchrist No, but both are used and both are negative. Right?

tchrist

Problems do tend to be negative. :)

Faheem Mitha

4:34 PM

@Cerberus The percentage of what?

tchrist

5:11 PM

On the money.

Robusto

5:56 PM

@tchrist Keep working on that Legendary. Only 46 more to go before you join the Immortals.

crl

6:24 PM

Can someone explain me dilbert.com/strip/1995-11-13? minivans are full of bugs?

skill patrol

7:00 PM

He is going to write some code with enough bugs in it to pay for a new minivan.

crl

Oh the joke is just that? I was looking for something deeper

skill patrol

The software bounty is $10/bug.

ie the unit price

Interestingly enough all rates are ratios :-)

user116848

7:22 PM

When I first joined English SE site I didn't know SE was a programmers' community :)

user116848

I joined it to improve my language.

user116848

@crl Hi!

user116848

I am thinking about changing my avatar.

Robusto

Your avatar ain't very clear at small res.

@crl The bounty rewards buggy code.

user116848

@Robusto Yeah I'll change it to something else.

Robusto

7:26 PM

0

Q: I dont mistake or I dont make a mistake... which on of them is true?

I have a query about these sentences: If I do not mistake, she would be his fiancee ... but my teacher said to me that it must be expressed in another way ... If I do not make a mistake ... she would be his fiancee ... why can't I utilize it as a verb ... please help me .. thanks

Pineapple alert.

crl

@Arrowfar Hi

@Robusto And nothing special about the minivan? he could have said a moto or whatever?

I was thinking minivan -> wolfwagen -> beetle

user116848

I think I am not that much big of a pineapple now as I was last year :)

Robusto

@crl Minivan could be any prize he could name.

crl

ok

user116848

I used to ask many basic questions.

Mateon1

7:33 PM

So, I have a quick question, is there any agreed-on way to pluralize an acronym?

Is it dependent on the acronym?

crl

147

Q: What is the correct way to pluralize an acronym?

For example, if I wanted to write the equivalent of There are many automated teller machines in this city. Would it be There are many ATMs in this city. or There are many ATM's in this city. (could get confused with possessive form or contraction). or just There are many...

acronyms grammatical-number

Mateon1

Thank you.

skill patrol

7:49 PM

Was there something you didn't understand with my explanation of the comic @crl?

Anonymous

How useful do you ELU folks find the tag wiki system?

Anonymous

On Japanese.SE, our tag wikis don't really get views, and they don't really contain a lot of useful information, either.

user116848

My new avatar is still in cache I think.

user116848

Changed it a while back.

Anonymous

So we'd have to put in a fair amount of work to end up with quality tag wikis. Right now, our quality is, well, not good. And I'm curious whether people think that sort of thing is useful.

crl

8:38 PM

@skillpatrol no, it's ok, I was just confused

user116848

There are many good pics online but many of them say "shutter stock".

skill patrol

It's not that funny anyway, imo

Yeah @Arrowfar I noticed that too.

crl

they are well-referenced on google images

Cerberus

11:11 PM