« first day (1660 days earlier)      last day (3268 days later) » 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:19 AM
@Cerberus look at this fancy dutch ink I bought!
it's royally something something by the king.
or something.
the bottle is genius! it has a marble which traps the right amount of ink in the neck
for easy filling!
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@GeorgePompidou Ah, very good!
> By Royal Assent Purveyor of the Court.
Which doesn't actually mean that their ink is used at court, it's just an honorary title you can get after 100 years or so.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
ah. so then someone royal likes this ink.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
But Akkerman is indeed well known.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
huh. I think my Penhaligons shaving soap has a similar thing with the British royal whatever.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Quite possibly!
Are you in Holland again?
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:24 AM
having a royal family is so hilariously silly to me.
for a modern country.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
It's really nice.
It's just like old buildings: a great asset to be cherished.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
why? it's all so pretentious and goofy
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
New research has just come out: newer cities, with no monumental buildings, are doing much worse than old cities in Holland. The average price of a house in a monumental city is €120,000 higher than in a new city.
Luckily we don't have that many new cities.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
I'm not talking about old buildings, I love old buildings.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Old cities also grow faster.
Well, a tradition is like a building.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:27 AM
but having a Duke of Grumblepoopiesborough is just like
get over yourself
I'm sorry, get over yourself, your royal highness.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
It is nice to look at, took a lot of time to mature, and can only be destroyed once, but always irreversibly so.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
then they go around knighting pop singers
it's all a big jerking fest. they're all just jerking each other off constantly
oooh yeeeeeahhh, I'm the Prince of Hooflalagroopyglibs, Royal Archbishop of Quantarloopsto
ohhh yeeeeeeeeah
I'm a knight grand cross of a bag of diiicksss
yeeeeeahhh
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
It is better to have an aesthetically pleasing but powerless aristocracy than a powerful, semi-cleptocratic one that hides behind a different name. <cough Kennedies Bushes Clintons cough>
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
man, come on. it's not the middle ages.
but they don't do anything
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
The Middle Ages produced much better art than the present age.
And traditions, buildings, etc.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:29 AM
they're just… there. they're some useless people born into so much praise and jerking off that they are constantly ejaculating all over everyone
I agree, but they also had a lot of pompous aristocratic diddling
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@GeorgePompidou That is just cabaret; in reality, the Queen does not masturbate.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
they're so full of themselves that they have to give some of that royal smug to Paul McCartney and whomsoever so they can jerk themselves off all over everyone too
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Traditions are like works of art, to be cherished unless they cause harm to society.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
@Cerberus shenanigans!
@Cerberus meh. tradition or useless circlejerk, we disagree on what a royal family is. I think it's like the Catholic church. it needs to just go away because it's outdated and they all dress up like pretentious morons.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
If you look at the list of countries where people are paid the highest wages per hour, and where the quality of life is highest, how many of those are monarchies?
The Catholic Church is different: it still has power, and it does bad things.
A powerless Vatican I would love and cherish.
Just like churches.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:34 AM
did you see all that crap they gave to Ireland?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
See above.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
finally another country moves on into the present time, and they have to shit all over it
I think they should stop raping children before judging something a defeat for humanity.
@Cerberus yes yes, I'm just mad at the Catholics now.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Good, good.
Most Catholics in Holland support gay marriage.
Even some bishops, I think.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
yeah, because you guys have common sense. unfortunately the third world countries where the Catholic church go to tell them to stop using birth control don't have that common sense, so they end up tripling their baby output and increasing infant death
I think the Catholics are criminals.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Yes, that is exactly the problem, and it also applies to the Church of England.
Only one English bishop is in favour of gay marriage.
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
12:42 AM
why do people care so much what other people do
:'<
me, I only care about myself. that makes me better than everyone else.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Yeah, that is the weirdest part.
And: why do religious people care about sex so much?
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
well, I think that a big part of modern religion was made because a lot of men were insecure—which has a lot to do with sex.
but that's my theory and for some reason everyone thinks I'm crazy.
I think it's obvious if you look at any high school or college. most men are insecure, and most of the time it has to do with something sexual/the other gender.
and it's only normal for the ones who don't have the sex life they want to get jealous of those who do, and in the case of religion, those people decided to start preaching about how terrible it is and you shouldn't do it.
plus… I know only a handful of religious people who are religious enough to not want to do anything sexual "until marriage." just so happens they have no game and couldn't possibly get any if they tried. coincidence?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
It is possible that insecurity is part of it...
 
George Pompidou
George Pompidou
humans get really weird about sex. and value it way too much.
I think religion's reaction is typical of humans.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
In primitive communities, it makes some sense to be concerned with other people's sex lives.
 
 
5 hours later…
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
6:13 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Email in answer: Is 'disabilitated' a real word? by Shirugaki Maansteen on english.stackexchange.com
 
 
2 hours later…
RegDwigнt
RegDwigнt
8:39 AM
@Robusto no, this is what you've been reduced to:
thank you! what is "foppish"? — ada 22 hours ago
 
 
2 hours later…
Robusto
Robusto
10:28 AM
Yeah, I saw that.
 
 
2 hours later…
Dog Lover
Dog Lover
12:05 PM
Hello
 
VDK
VDK
12:24 PM
Hi all, do you have an idea how i can easily improve my English skills/vocabulary especially with a focus on business vocabulary. The standard learning softwares are not sufficient and by reading e.g. the Economist i do not necessarily become better. I do not look up unknown vocabulary since in most cases the context does the job.
 
 
1 hour later…
Cerberus
Cerberus
1:42 PM
@VDK I don't know, but looking up words that you don't know sounds like a good idea.
Write them all down and make a list.
 
crl
crl
How do you call those characters '<' and '>'?
(not just inferior to and superior to I mean a generic name)
Chevron (typographie)
Le chevron est un signe de ponctuation également appelé crochet oblique et par le passé, anti-lambda (lettre capitale lambda, Λ, tournée d'un quart de tour à gauche ou à droite). Les chevrons sont à l'origine des guillemets dits « français ». == Usage philologique == En philologie, pour l'édition scientifique d'un texte, le chevron marque généralement les mots ou groupes de mots ajoutés dans le texte par conjecture. Les lacunes peuvent également être indiquées par un groupe de trois astérisques entourées par des chevrons (<***>). On attribue traditionnellement l'emploi du chevron au grammairien...
 
Mitch
Mitch
@VDK Even native speakers are learning new vocab, and even the society as a whole is creating new vocab that we all learn as it comes a long (the latest is 'dadbod'). But native speakers have the advantage that these new words are very rare and you can spend a lot of time thinking about them whereas you're probably seeing a new word every sentence.
@crl if thy are like parens they are called angle brackets.
if they are like quotes... well, those aren't used as quotes in English.
 
crl
crl
@Mitch Ah thanks, funny name
 
Robusto
Robusto
@crl What's funny about that?
 
crl
crl
"angle brackets", it's a 'concrete' name
 
Robusto
Robusto
1:51 PM
If you want funny, how about "curly braces" for {}?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@VDK So in some sense you have to replicate that situation for all your new words. A list is a start but for each entry you'll want a sentence or two of an example with context that will help support the meaning. Also, if the word is very much confused with another word, you'll want to make up a distinguishing circumstance (like "what is the difference between tragedy and travesty?")
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Bracket
A bracket is a tall punctuation mark typically used in matched pairs within text, to set apart or interject other text. Used unqualified, brackets refer to different types of brackets in different parts of the world and in different contexts. Brackets include parentheses, square brackets, curly brackets, angle brackets, and various other pairs of symbols. In addition to referring to the class of all types of brackets, the unqualified word bracket is most commonly used to refer to a specific type of bracket. In modern American usage this is usually the square bracket and in modern British usage...
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto That's not funny either. You're being bracketist.
 
crl
crl
@Robusto well that's because in French we don't use such descriptive (I shouldn't have said funny) names
 
Robusto
Robusto
@crl ORLY?
 
Mitch
Mitch
1:53 PM
No. ROISSY.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
They are called chevrons in English too, sometimes
 
crl
crl
English take their users as idiots :)
 
Robusto
Robusto
Whoa, pardner, I need you to smile when you say that.
 
tchrist
tchrist
guillotines
 
Mitch
Mitch
What's the word for what crl is saying. 'descriptive' is too 'descriptive'.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
1:54 PM
@crl now now. French has lots of things that are descriptively named.
 
Mitch
Mitch
something like pictorial or sensorial or onomatopoetic or iconic.
 
crl
crl
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 some example?
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch Réage against the machine?
 
Mitch
Mitch
Honey I ate the machine.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@crl I'm sure you can think of some, particularly recently coined usages that rely on inventions made popular by English-speaking countries. I seem to recall that there was no simple verb for "to fax". I'm a bit too rusty to give you more examples.
 
Mitch
Mitch
1:56 PM
Concrete?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ha you said 'rusty'. mericans are so simple minded they have to use the word to describe itself. rather than another word.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Mitch I'm not a merkin.
nor a merican.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But I really like what you people have done with bacon.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto we're innovative.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That does sound like an insult. Forget that that is a word, I'm surprised there is a thing like that that requires a name.
@Robusto they may call it bacon and it may be good but it's not.
canadian bacon is more bacon than white chocolate is chocolate, but still, it's really ham.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Funny, here, we don't have anything called "Canadian bacon"
 
Robusto
Robusto
2:01 PM
I got into an intense argument with my son a few years ago regarding whether white chocolate was chocolate. I maintained, and maintain, that it is not. Calling something chocolate doesn't make it so.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto It's made from chocolate...
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I guess you export it all to the States, yeah?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto Or we have better names for it.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Stop it.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto It's like, tomato sauce, and ketchup, are both "tomato".
 
Mitch
Mitch
2:02 PM
@crl then you should think german the funniest of all. all their words are just combinations of other descriptive words. Diarrhea = Durchfall = fall through. Yuck.
 
Robusto
Robusto
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto meh. That's only if your definition of "chocolate" is "cocoa solids".
go nuts with that.
 
Robusto
Robusto
It is.
Chocolate looks and more importantly tastes like chocolate.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and your definition of chocolate is ... 'candy bar stuff'?
 
crl
crl
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well maybe accent aigu and accent circonflexe are some descriptive terms in French, but I don't find many
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:04 PM
Sure, make up any definition, then claim that things that don't meet that definition as not meeting that definition, yeah. wheeeeeee! tautologies FTW
 
Mitch
Mitch
A white horse is not a horse.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@crl Aha!!!
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@crl What's the verb for "to fax"
 
Mitch
Mitch
Wait... that's idiotic. Of course it is.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch Unless it's a whisky.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:05 PM
@Robusto That definition is circular.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@crl the test is what you call white chocolate.
 
crl
crl
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 we say "Jean a faxé ce document"
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it may be circular but it's not backwards.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know chocolate when I taste it. That is not circular, unless you're describing the shape of my mouth when opening to eat chocolate.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto you have chocolate face.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:07 PM
@crl hm. Maybe I misremembered then.
 
Mitch
Mitch
White chocolate is an abomination to the standards of actual chocolate. hides in corner to eat white chocolate
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Types of chocolate
Chocolate is a range of foods derived from cocoa (cacao), mixed with fat (i.e., cocoa butter) and finely powdered sugar to produce a solid confectionery. There are several types of chocolate according to the proportion of cocoa used in a particular formulation. The use of particular name designations is sometimes subject to international governmental regulation. Some governments assign chocolate solids and ranges of chocolate differently. == TerminologyEdit == The cocoa bean (or other alternative) products from which chocolate is made are known under different names in different parts of the world...
> There are several types of chocolate according to the proportion of cocoa used in a particular formulation.
 
crl
crl
@Mitch hehe totally, but I don't know German a lot
 
Robusto
Robusto
@crl Au contraire, mon petit chou.
 
Jez
Jez
I've discovered a way to make PluralSigh courses bearable: play them at 2x speed
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:10 PM
@crl oh, I have one, what is the French word for 70? 80? 90 :)
 
Jez
Jez
it's amazing how fast the brain can process speech! i don't even have any trouble following along
our language processing centres are extremely advanced, able to translate even fast speech to semantic data in a moment
 
crl
crl
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 French: soixante-dix, quatre-vingt, quatre-vingt-dix| Swiss: septante, octante, nonante
 
Robusto
Robusto
@crl My fave is quatre-vingt-dix-neuf. A long way to go to get ninety-nine. :)
 
Mitch
Mitch
Actually I don't like white chocolate. It's too white. Or not white enough. or something.
 
crl
crl
indeed it's descriptive and a pain to use (Belgian, Swiss... are totally right to use septante....)
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:13 PM
@crl see? that's pretty descriptive
 
Robusto
Robusto
You still haven't responded to the cabbage observation.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So there should be a kind of chocolate with no proportion of cocoa in it.
 
crl
crl
hehe chou
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Mitch white chocoloate has cocoa butter in it. QED.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Bonjour.
 
Mitch
Mitch
2:14 PM
@Jez Oh totally. At regular speed it's naptime. "hurry up and get to the point!"
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mitch It is a slab of hardened fat and nothing more.
 
Jez
Jez
in fact i want to go even faster than 2x speed for slow speakers, but the player wont go any faster :-)
i find it interesting how our brains can process speech SO quickly
like double the speed we can speak it
but only for native language
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Cerberus Thank you. Certainly it isn't real chocolate.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Butter schmutter. Soda has high fructose corn syrup in it. They should call it Corna Cola.
@Cerberus mmm... soap!
 
Jez
Jez
it's like the brain has this enormous hashtable not just of individual words, but of collections of words. it can almost instantaneously look up the sounds and relate them to semantic meaning, independently of the rest of the brain
amazingly complex and makes you wonder how evolution led to it
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
2:16 PM
@Robusto It isn't! I hate it.
 
Jez
Jez
what was the evolutionary advantage not just of some language, but of extremely advanced language abilities?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez are you kidding? look at how we've used it to our benefit. We're too successful.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Jez What is the scenario? Why only a native language?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Jez It's easier to kick some chimpanzee's ass?
@Cerberus because a foreign language is so hard to understand at regular speed.
@Jez that really feels right. all this theory on syntax and recursive NP-VP, when it just seem like a superfast retrival of individual elements in one big bag.
 
Jez
Jez
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes, but that's looking at things in hindsight. 100,000-year-old homo ancestor didn't know advanced language would lead to this science thing or computers or space exploration
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
2:19 PM
@Mitch Well, you can learn a foreign language really well?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Jez or playing the piano
@Cerberus you can but it's obviously harder
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez How else can you measure evolutionary advantage except by hindsight?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
I don't know what situation or test Jez had in mind.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
evolution is unplanned and advantages are context-specific.
 
Mitch
Mitch
I wouldn't say implemented like a hash table (with a randomized hash) but some fixed action pattern with a zillion triggers.
 
Jez
Jez
2:20 PM
@Mitch yeah. i don't see how else speech can be processed so fast. and it explains why i struggle so much to understand spoken french... i'm having to decode words individually, with is both much slower and problematic when words are slurred together. French people are getting the slurred clusters of words looked up in their hashtable
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
language allows for better teamwork and teaching, which leads to "fitter" populations
better language processing allows better language
 
Jez
Jez
but the fun thing is, my brain's saying "damnit, i can do this quicker. double the damn speed!", and i can easily understand people talking at double speed
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Jez to Cerb's point, once you learn it well, that's not a problem. and learning is from trying harder.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, God directs evolution. How else could it have gone so well, to result in mankind, its final destination?
 
Mitch
Mitch
learning makes the hash table faster/more efficient.
 
Jez
Jez
2:21 PM
@Mitch much easier to build it up as a child though.
as an adult, you can expand it a bit, but much harder to do for a whole new language
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Cerberus yeah, so this God fellow, he has a lot to answer for. cuz his direction sucks.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Jez In your native language, it's almost impossible not to have words force themselves into your brain. With a foreign language you have to concentrate on each one.
 
Jez
Jez
my French hash table has "y'a" for "il y a", for instance, but lacks many of their contractions and blurred speech
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez You just need more practice. Like any skill, repetition lets you get it done faster.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Cerberus You mean God screwed up with the dinotopia civilization? And that's why he destroyed Atlantis with Noah's flood?
@Jez Kid's don't appreciate it. Also, why do the walk on my lawn.
@Jez same here, but not one at all for 'y' or 'a'. well, maybe, but it's hard.
 
Jez
Jez
2:24 PM
@Mitch it's very annoying that the modern trend is not to teach proper English classes. my dad has taught me a lot of useful info about English grammar, because he was properly taught.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 kid's hardly need any repetition, like maybe once or none. Adults need it over and over.
 
Jez
Jez
the subjunctive, the Oxford comma, that vs which (restrictive clauses), etc.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Jez grammar isn't being taught like it used to be. English doesn't really have much (in comparison)
 
Jez
Jez
stuff that the average native speaker doesn't get because they "dont think it's important"
 
Mitch
Mitch
there's lots of implicit grammar that native English speakers get right, and so there's no need to teach the rules to them explicitly, like you'd have to do for EFLers.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
2:27 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How so? Whatever She did that you don't understand, I'm sure it's all part of Her plan.
@Mitch Screwed up? Heavens, no. All part of the master plan.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Cerberus I think you mean 'Heavens yes!'
 
Jez
Jez
@Mitch there's a need to teach some rules to them, evidently, as people often get them wrong
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
No, heavens, no!
 
Mitch
Mitch
Hell is optional, for scaring the crap out of kids.
@Jez people should speak in math. that'd keep a lot of people quiet who should stay that way.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Arguably, if people can't learn a grammatical rule properly, maybe it isn't really part of the language.
 
Jez
Jez
2:30 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 how does that logic work?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez It's descriptivism vs prescriptivism.
 
Jez
Jez
yeah, and i prescribe that people speak in a clear way
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Example: the less vs fewer for countable things: it's a made up rule.
People have a hard time internalizing it unless it's drilled into them.
 
Jez
Jez
somewhat, and i'm prepared to relax that rule
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
That's because it isn't really part of the language.
 
Jez
Jez
2:31 PM
but the use of the subjunctive is very important
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
is it?
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Jez Chat rooms!
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
you're referring to, I take it, the difference between "If I was rich" and "If I were rich"?
 
Robusto
Robusto
Easy there, Tevya.
 
Jez
Jez
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 no. "important that the car is safe" vs "important that the car be safe"
one implies that it is, the other doesn't
virtually no-one in the UK understands the difference between those sentences, and they should be beaten with a cluestick until they do
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:33 PM
I'm sorry, I don't see that as being critically important. Lots of language is ambiguous about the implications.
 
Jez
Jez
yes, but this distinction eliminates an ambiguity! it's good!
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Or, an alternative interpretation is, virtually nobody in the UK understands the difference, and it doesn't seem to matter at all.
Give me an example of that difference mattering.
 
Robusto
Robusto
The subjunctive is eroding faster than the Antarctic ice shelf.
 
Jez
Jez
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it definitely matters in some circumstances. sometimes i honestly don't know what the speaker means. David Cameron said a while back "it is important to us that the Euro is successful"
i didn't know whether he meant he thought it WAS successful, or that it SHOULD BE.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez I'm sure that was the only ambiguity ever uttered by a politician, ever. On the basis of the fact that maybe he thought the Euro was successful already, but didn't care about its future success, or maybe he thought it might not be successful now, but he cares about its future, you voted for him, or not.
 
Jez
Jez
2:37 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it causes ambiguity. understanding the subjunctive is a good thing.
also, since i learned about it, i just somehow prefer the sound of the subjunctive
somehow "it is important that he does something" sounds silly compared to "... that he do something"
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Having the ability to disambiguate in speech is sometimes important. But clearly it's not important enough that native speakers care about maintaining that language feature.
The evidence is in the continued functioning of English as a working language where people are rarely tripped up by that ambiguity in a meaningful way.
And you can disambiguate without using the subjunctive.
 
Jez
Jez
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 only by adding a bunch more words.
and remaining grammatically incorrect.
which is just dumb compared to fixing your grammar
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Yes, fine, but lots of things require more words. For example, the sentences I'm saying to you now cannot all be expressed in a single word.
@Jez "incorrect" according to an old rule, or fashion.
 
Jez
Jez
yeah, but losing the subjunctive is a regression. losing something that we have right now should be avoided if possible.
old rules are fine if they're good rules
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Take a look at all the old grammatical features English has lost, and then see if it matters.
Why don't we have genders for nouns, etc? Think of the precision, if when you say "my friend" the speaker could know if you meant a man or a woman!
 
Jez
Jez
2:43 PM
well, in some cases it is a shame. like the inability to distinguish between singular and plural "you"
necessitating ugly phrases like "you guys", "y'all", or whatever
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Have you heard of singular "y'all"?
 
Jez
Jez
and still leaving an ambiguity in any case if "you" is used
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 erm, it's meant to be plural
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Except it isn't always plural.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Nooo spare us!
 
Jez
Jez
oh? i've not heard it used in the singular
but if it is... well, that's eeeeeeven dumber
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
2:46 PM
 
Jez
Jez
eeeeven dumber.
dumber and dumberer
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez actually, it's because of the T-V distinction, where V is used as a sign of respect.
 
Jez
Jez
T-V?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Tu-Vous
 
Robusto
Robusto
Tu-Vous makes for bad TV.
 
Jez
Jez
2:49 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 except that tu/vous also distinguishes singular/plural
"y'all", as with "you", would seem to be ambiguous.
ambiguity can be good for humour, but it sucks for proper communication
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
So if thou is too personal, you call someone you singularly, and then you stops being plural only, and then thou becomes useless. Then you add y'all as a plural, but then you is singular and thus too personal, and thus you use y'all singularly.
 
Jez
Jez
why would a singular "you" be "too personal"?
i know the French get caught up in it, but i don't think one need get caught up in the "familiarity" baggage of a singular "you"
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez No, vous is both singular and plural
 
Jez
Jez
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 true, because of the familiarity baggage.
that, i would jettison.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez I don't know. For whatever reason, people like to use plural pronouns for single people in cases where they want to show respect.
There is lots of evidence of that in lots of languages.
And hard-and-fast rules in French and other romance languages.
 
Jez
Jez
2:52 PM
well, I don't see why.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez And I don't see why you care so much about the subjunctive.
 
Jez
Jez
clarity, and sounding nice
 
Mitch
Mitch
I care.
 
Jez
Jez
above all... clarity. (5 stars if you get the reference)
 
Mitch
Mitch
Did you get my Star Wars reference? I didn't get your 'clarity' one.
 
Jez
Jez
2:55 PM
it's a bit obscure. hint: DOS game
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
Blake Stone, Aliens of Gold
 
Mitch
Mitch
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Unless the other team scores more.
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
@Mitch Is that a Zelda reference?
 
Jez
Jez
Guild of glassmakers
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Jez Space Quest II, Vohaul's Revenge?
oh
 
Mitch
Mitch
2:57 PM
Then it's Teary eyes, full pants, can't get away fast enough
 
Jez
Jez
c'mon i've given a ton of hints
you're down to 2 stars
 
Mitch
Mitch
Ha ha not Zelda. It's a thing I've heard ten times this week but before never. I think it's from the American tv show 'Friday night loghts'
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Anyway, Jez, look at this link of OE language features. Many of those language features add "clarity". Yet we seem to get by without them just fine.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Some football sermon/pep talk thing
Mrs: really, a language feature called 'clarity'?
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
ah, pepball sermons. they're the most pious
 
Jez
Jez
3:00 PM
Guild of glassmakers...
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
Dune?
 
Mitch
Mitch
The guys need something meaningless to pump up their testosterone.
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
I don't know a game with a guild of glassmakers
 
Jez
Jez
lol dune? ffs
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
they had guilds or something
 
Jez
Jez
3:00 PM
ok down to one star: welcome to the age of the Great Guilds
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
it was a long time ago
 
Mitch
Mitch
Spice guilds not glass guilds
Game of Drones?
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
oh! it's a trick question. there is not game. Life is the game
 
Mitch
Mitch
Dragons R Us?
 
Jez
Jez
you might as well google it
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
3:02 PM
Discworld noir
 
Mitch
Mitch
The Maltese doily?
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
oh, Loom. I never played it.
 
Jez
Jez
finally, lol
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
never heard of it.
 
Matt E. Эллен
Matt E. Эллен
It was a Lucasarts game, I think
 
Jez
Jez
3:03 PM
great game from Lucasarts with a bunch of Tchaicofsky (or however u spell it)
 
Mitch
Mitch
I don't spell it. So you're one up on me
Is today a holiday? It should be.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Summer should be a holiday.
 
Jez
Jez
> Remember us, my young friend. Tell the world we fought with courage and chose death with clarity. Above all else, clarity.
 
Robusto
Robusto
 
Jez
Jez
 
Robusto
Robusto
3:10 PM
Funny how the graphics we so enjoyed now look so horrible on our large monitors and awesome graphics cards.
But it's fun to hear the old tunes in General MIDI again.
 
Jez
Jez
@Robusto depends on the game. i still love the look of a lot of the DOS pixel artwork like Transport Tycoon or Monkey Island
 
Robusto
Robusto
There is a certain nostalgia factor, I guess.
I recently replayed the original Baldur's Gate just for old time's sake.
 
Jez
Jez
Seiken Densetsu 3
wonderful graphics
 
Robusto
Robusto
Diablo and Warcraft were originally DOS games.
 
Robusto
Robusto
3:28 PM
0
A: Does a "fact" have to be true?

Joe BlowOF COURSE a "fact" does not have to be true. Just glance in the dictionary. One usage of "fact" is "has proven to be true." You can offer a million examples of this such as "it's a fact" (meaning, "it is correct"). Another usage of "fact" is "(one piece of) information" say, used in a report. ...

There's JB being his old charming self.
@Mitch: You fell afoul of him recenty, IIRC.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
4:09 PM
how does he have so much rep considering how many crappy answers he has.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
4:20 PM
patronizing?! once bitten, twice shy. I'm sorry it must be one of those written-V-spoken language things. I don't even know how to be patronizing, I'm just a fragile drunk. :) I'll add mroe smilies next time. This is twice this has happened. — Joe Blow Feb 27 at 8:21
 
 
2 hours later…
crl
crl
6:35 PM
fact: cigarettes are bad
well facts can be true or false, it's just an opinion of the one that says it
 
Saladin
Saladin
hello
anyone home?
@crl
 
crl
crl
7:04 PM
yep I am
 
Mitch
Mitch
7:17 PM
@Robusto never foul towards me. but the 'charm' is very recognizable. I' surprised he isn't being flagged left and right by those he does bully.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch I flagged him. Fat lot of good it did.
In other news: seems my "facts" question may be a duplicate and—wait for it—I answered the original question myself and my answer was accepted.
I had a nagging sense that someone else had asked that question but my search on ELU yielded nothing like this on the first page, or else I overlooked it.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Robusto awesome
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto ha ha. I hate that. As a kid, I used to measure progress by how stupid I thought I had been; every year I would think, that I hardly knew anything the year before. Now I'll see ELU answers and think 'wow, clever, I wish I had thought of that' then I see that I was the author and think shit I gotta look into nursing homes for myself.
 
Robusto
Robusto
I've done that on the main site before, but never here. Well, when you answer as many questions as I have, I guess it's to be expected that some will fall through the cracks.
Amazing how memory fades. When I was a kid I literally remembered everything that happened. I would remember every word of every conversation I ever had. I used to think people were lying when they said they forgot something. (How could you forget something?) And now I not only don't remember what was said in the conversation, I might not even remember having it at all.
 
Mitch
Mitch
7:33 PM
My answer got eaten by the close-fairy right as I submitted it, and now it's gone T_T the duplicate has an incorrect answer (ironic, given the subject matter) highest-voted and accepted. le sigh — gatherer818 4 mins ago
So @Robusto, you're wrong on your own question.
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch Immediate disqualification for using the French article.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Wait, how did this get closed? How does 'Community' know to do that?
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch I think having it both ways has a certain symmetry to it, don't you? I mean, it's almost beautiful.
@Mitch I voted to close it as a dupe myself.
You could start the voting to reopen it, of course.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto maybe he really is hoity toity?
@Robusto That would be perverse. and counterfactual.
Really, it is a philosophical question.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Oh well . . .
 
Mitch
Mitch
7:36 PM
I think we should close up chop and just have a link to grammar girl.
 
Robusto
Robusto
It was worth closing that question just to see who voted to close it. Marilou and chenmunka, you're dead to me now . . .
@MrHen: Rule of thumb: everything I say is 100% true, unequivocal, undeniable, cast-in-stone, government-certified fact. I vouch for it myself. — Robusto Apr 22 '11 at 13:42
I certainly was full of myself as a youngster, wasn't I?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto You'll feel bad if something happens to them.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Maybe if it happened in front of me.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Robusto Kids those days. probably walking on your lawn.
 
Robusto
Robusto
Note that my having a near perfect memory as a kid did not mean I would forbear to use the excuse of forgetfulness myself regarding homework, chores, etc.
 
Mitch
Mitch
7:44 PM
"I did not throw that ball through the window. I was dropping it and accidentally put too much force to stop it."
 
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch You can do better than that. Think of something involving Batman.
 
Mitch
Mitch
I think you're having an existential crisis. Not about yourself. You're fine. But about everything else.
@Robusto Well, my excuse used to stop at 'I dropped it just upwards"
 
Robusto
Robusto
Mmm . . . close, but no Batman.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Sorry, all out of Batman.
 
Robusto
Robusto
You know, if you don't want to play, just say so. But don't use the "all out of Batman" excuse. It's lame. And insulting. Next you'll be telling me you broke your Bat signal or something.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
7:58 PM
The bat signal could never work.
 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

« first day (1660 days earlier)      last day (3268 days later) »