English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Kit Z. Fox

12:00 AM

Damn it.

I missed the deadline.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get this hat.

user174558

Oops, what happened? Hats?

tchrist

Which hatalot?

user174558

It is UTC 0000 now.

Kit Z. Fox

I have to vote something like 36 times a day for 7 days.

@tchrist Vote Early, Vote Often.

250 votes in 7 days.

I keep forgetting to max out my votes.

tchrist

Trigger finger

Trigger finger, trigger thumb, or trigger digit (also a sub-set of stenosing tenosynovitis) is a common disorder characterized by catching, snapping or locking of the involved finger flexor tendon, associated with dysfunction and pain. A disparity in size between the flexor tendon and the surrounding retinacular pulley system, most commonly at the level of the first annular (A1) pulley, results in difficulty flexing or extending the finger and the “triggering” phenomenon. The label of trigger finger is used because when the finger unlocks, it pops back suddenly, as if releasing a trigger on a gun...

Kit Z. Fox

12:01 AM

Ouch.

user174558

I will wait for the Santa hat.

Kit Z. Fox

0

A: Possible exception to the subject-verb agreement rule

You cannot make movements singular by force of preference, but you could substitute a singular noun that means the same thing. Such as Slight variation/oscillation/deflection in the resonant peak is attributed to the changes in the refractive index. or whatever is appropriate to describe th...

user174558

Are you impugning my integrity gets one vote and are you doubting my integrity gets no votes? LOL

Kit Z. Fox

Accepted in less than two minutes.

user174558

@KitZ.Fox Strange no upvote there, LOL

Kit Z. Fox

12:05 AM

Can he upvote? Don't you need a certain rep for that?

user174558

He has 30 points so I think he can.

user174558

I have 6 hats, LOLLOLLOL

user174558

I am not even actively trying!

user174558

Oh, you have 19...

user174558

I see 6 is quite a small number...

user174558

12:07 AM

I thought I had the biggest number...

user174558

Hello @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 if you want to discuss the increasing sequence question with me, you can.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't have much to add. He mentioned a reference which I don't have anymore and can't be bothered to look up.

user174558

"increasing sequence" is so common in math books that its meaning is clear in that question.

user174558

Sure, one can define a cat to be a dog. But nobody I know of defines "increasing sequence" the way he did in his answer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's what I figured

user174558

12:13 AM

I don't have that book with me, but either he misread it or the author defined it a very special way for a very special situation in his book.

user174558

There is some variation though in math books about the definition of "increasing sequence"

user174558

Sometimes, equality is allowed, the inequality need not be strict.

user174558

But that is not relevant to the post.

MετάEd

If you define a cat to be a dog, what exactly have you said is what? :-)

user174558

I am confused LOL

MετάEd

12:16 AM

«"How do you know that you're mad?" "To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?" "I suppose so," said Alice. "Well then," the Cat went on, "you see a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad.”»

Kit Z. Fox

I like your guillmettes. Or what ever those things are called.

Where's @tchrist when you need code points?

MετάEd

My PC gives them the unfortunate name of "left- and right-pointing double angle quotation marks."

U+00BB

U+00AB

tchrist

‹a›

user174558

I know about parentheses, brackets, braces and chevrons.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

<<These oughta do>>

MετάEd

12:19 AM

Wikipedia says they're "guillemets".

user174558

I think they are used in Chinese too.

MετάEd

˙ʇɐq ǝɔᴉN

tchrist

mac(tchrist)% unichars '[\p{Pi}\p{Pf}]'
U+00AB ‭ «  LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
U+00BB ‭ »  RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
U+2018 ‭ ‘  LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
U+2019 ‭ ’  RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
U+201B ‭ ‛  SINGLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK
U+201C ‭ “  LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
U+201D ‭ ”  RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
U+201F ‭ ‟  DOUBLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK
U+2039 ‭ ‹  SINGLE LEFT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
U+203A ‭ ›  SINGLE RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE QUOTATION MARK

user174558

Is tchrist a bot?

MετάEd

00AB « LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
= left guillemet
= chevrons (in typography)
• usually opening, sometimes closing
→ 226A ≪ much less-than
→ 300A 《 left double angle bracket

00BB » RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
= right guillemet
• usually closing, sometimes opening
→ 226B ≫ much greater-than
→ 300B 》 right double angle bracket

@JohnNash That's such a limiting term.

Aren't we all bots?

When we're not bats.

user174558

12:25 AM

I think deadrat is probably a student in English or something. Just my guess.

MετάEd

@JohnNash If you define a deadrat to be a student in English, what exactly have you said is what?

user174558

@MετάEd You made the hat yourself right?

MετάEd

@JohnNash Which hat?

user174558

I don't see anyone else with a Santa hat yet.

user174558

The red one you are wearing.

MετάEd

12:29 AM

The brown hat is an SE hat. The Santa hat behind it is my hat.

user174558

I suspect Kit is talking to deadrat now, lol

MετάEd

@JohnNash backs further away

The Substitute

1:40 AM

Hi. Can anyone lead me to any pages that discuss the difference between "such that " and "for which"?

Mitch

3:38 AM

'punk' = rotten sticks used as tinder vs young leather studded rapscallion, is interesting but gen ref. Started as rotten wood used as tinder, then rotten, then prostitute,then catamite, then worthless person, then youn inexperienced person, then young criminal, then sex pistols.

4

Q: Etymology of "punk"?

I was wondering where the noun punk stems from. Obviously, it's used for members of a certain subculture, but has the word been in use before the invention of said subculture and been adapted for it, or has it been made up specifically for it?

etymology

but mostly etymonline.com/index.php?term=punk

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Ya feelin' lucky?

user174558

3:58 AM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hey.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@JohnNash Yo.

user174558

I often dream about sleeping with men, funny right?

user174558

I just woke up from such a dream.

user174558

7 more days to Xmas, good.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Yeah? Was he snoring?

user174558

4:12 AM

No, we were both awake.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh. Oh I see.

user174558

LOL

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

:P

user174558

@anongoodnurse Hi medica.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

So ah, when do we get the chat bot back?

user174558

4:23 AM

Oh, maybe you can ask Kit about that?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Okay.

Time to saw logs.

user174558

For Xmas tree?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

For visions of sugarplums.

sawing logs = snoring

user174558

Goodnight, see you in your dreams.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Night!

user174558

5:41 AM

@KitZ.Fox If you are free, you can delete those five accounts, thanks. Username is 'please delete me' and avatar is a monochromatic square, if you need to search.

AndyT

9:11 AM

What do people think about the edit to this question's title by @Mari-LouA? I'm tempted to say that if someone asks "what's the word for this" then changing the title to "what's the word for word", i.e. making the question beg itself, is a bit pointless.

Also, yay for me for finding a proper usage for "beg the question" (I think).

Matt E. Эллен

9:43 AM

I'm not one to reopen unilaterally, but this question doesn't seem off topic

What does everyone think?

tchrist

10:20 AM

@MattE.Эллен You might be right about the question, but I do think that the answer looks like spam.

Hugo

10:42 AM

any chance of a +3 for my Q and A here? stackoverflow.com/a/34353705/724176 I'm still trying to come up with a Q for EL&U but in the meantime that came up anyway.

@AndyT "What's this picture called?" is a bad title, "What do you call a “cropped image” on a website?" is much better.

@MattE.Эллен Closed as proof-reading. I think it's an ok question about grammar: Can you have multiple 'to's after a single 'from'? "From a to b, c to d, e to f...", or does each bit need its own 'from'?

the first version of the question was much worse. Current one is better.

user174558

11:05 AM

It's kind of silly to quote dictionary entries for every answer. Not really needed for common words.

AndyT

@Hugo - I don't disagree that the original title wasn't great. But editing the question title so that it answers itself doesn't seem a good idea either.

Hugo

True, but does "What do you call a “cropped image” on a website?" answer itself?

user174558

OK, the edit is done, let us leave it that way @AndyT and @Hugo.

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist The answer is quoting the question in its original form

user174558

@MattE.Эллен I bumped the virgin post with an edit and someone downvoted me, LOL.

AndyT

11:10 AM

@Hugo - I've just looked closer and spotted that the OP used the term "cropped picture" in his question body. Which I feel makes it fair game for adding to the title, and makes me agree that the title doesn't (necessarily) contain the answer. Objection removed.

user174558

@AndyT Even better!

user174558

I am now a navy square.

Matt E. Эллен

@JohnNash no accounting for taste

user174558

@MattE.Эллен He probably got irritated that I bumped it.

Matt E. Эллен

who knows? only the downvoter

user174558

11:14 AM

@MattE.Эллен I deleted my meta question because the question was reopened. I really disagree with Reg closure there.

Matt E. Эллен

OK

user174558

I now have 7 hats.

user174558

I see a @snailboat.

user174558

11:26 AM

I am going to eat dinner, bye.

Kit Z. Fox

12:34 PM

@MattE.Эллен I agree, the question is on-topic

user174558

12:56 PM

@KitZ.Fox I think the results show that people want the chat bot back.

Mitch

1:15 PM

If you can't explain some science to an interested 10 year old, then maybe you don't understand it well enough yourself.

or what is the quote?

33

Q: Did Einstein say "if you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough"?

A very popular quote attributed to Albert Einstein but did he really say it? If so, what is the original document containing the original explanation of it?

education quotes albert-einstein

Barmaid? Most barmaids are astrophysicists trying to put themselves through college. Or the other way round.

So what is the real age cutoff? 8 years old? 10 years old? I feel like 13 because there is some basic sciency ideas (Not necessarily vocab) that you don't have until then. Like you don't want the kid saying 'I've never heard of DNA'

Matt E. Эллен

If you can't explain something to yourself, you don't understand it well enough

so, @Mitch, why does 1 + 1 = 2?

@Mitch I'm not allowed to say if I've heard of NDA

tchrist

2:14 PM

@MattE.Эллен Oh thanks!

@KitZ.Fox When I last saw it, I thought it was just a block of text without a question.

I've voted to reöpen.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен "That's an excellent question. How about you come to office hours and I can explain in copious detail!"

I'll never see that student again.

@MattE.Эллен But in a single comment? I can do that.

"You see, the labels one (or 1) and two (or 2) we've all agreed stand for a number of tick marks like '|'. But also plus (or +) stands for a way of pushing these tick marks around (mostly just putting them side by side). So putting '|' next to '|' gives you '||' which is what we have labeled 2. 1+1=2 is obvious, asking why is not obvious, but it turns out the the explanation, '|' next to '|' gives '||' is kinda obvious as we would hope."

MετάEd

Just remember that 2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2.

Mitch

If you're three years old or someone who then says 'why' for everything, I can do that ad infinitum, but sadly this is off topic. "2+2=4" is a little more interesting of course.

@MετάEd If you start from 1, 2 is pretty large already.

MετάEd

2:29 PM

@Mitch Large, well if you want large, there's 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, ...

Mitch

No thanks, I have enough of my own already.

They multiply like rabbits

MετάEd

Rabbits, well if you want rabbits, there's Peter, Flopsy, Mopsy, Cottontail, ...

sky-light

I have some questions about the space station and astronauts, which room is the best place for asking these kind of questions?

MετάEd

@sky-light Questions like what keeps them from falling down?

Mitch

astronomy? sci-fi? is there a space exploration site?

or world building?

MετάEd

2:33 PM

Linguistics in space?

sky-light

@MετάEd some questions that not easy to imagine ..

Mitch

@sky-light Space exploration? space.stackexchange.com

MετάEd

@sky-light Maybe it will be easier for us to help if we know what you want to ask.

sky-light

@MετάEd First, why the Astronauts should leave from Kazakhstan, why not USA ?

Mitch

I have one: how come farts go down instead of up?

@sky-light Because the Russians (who are running the space program in Kazakhstan) have all the equipment for putting humans in space (the Soyuz system) NASA currently does not.

MετάEd

2:38 PM

@sky-light Okay so I am going with Mitch's suggestion: Space Exploration.

@Mitch I question the premise.

Mitch

@sky-light There's no 'world' space team. There are individual countries US, Russia, China, India (or coops like ESA for Europe) that put things in space, and Russia is the only one with manned capability.

MετάEd

@snailboat And INTERCAL was mentioned in the same article. That's, like, brilliant!

Mitch

They also -land- there. I've always worried how bumpy that would be.

sky-light

@Mitch I think it depend how you do it and the pressure of it.

Mitch

@MετάEd gets a little quesy

@sky-light Well, good parachutes?

MετάEd

2:42 PM

Assume you are an astronaut and you are on the moon, holding a wrench. You let go of the wrench. What does the wrench do?

Mitch

@MετάEd Isn't INTERCAL the programming language with the 'COME FROM' operator?

MετάEd

@Mitch Yes.

Mitch

Very powerful.

MετάEd

@Mitch And no operator for addition.

Mitch

@MετάEd turns into rainbow colored butterflies. Because if you're assuming you're an astronaut then you're hallucinating.

@MετάEd You use the square root function to manipulate the sign bit to increment to get 'ADD'

sky-light

2:46 PM

@Mitch why US don't install their own space station I mean NASA. I think it is not related to cost. it is related to the location.

Mitch

It is totally related to cost

It's all about cost

tchrist

NASA are in a much better location to install a space station in the Smithsonian than they are to install one in orbit.

Mitch

oh, sorry, it's also about a delivery system. We currently don't have a delivery system for humans. We (NASA) can send supplies, but not humans.

tchrist

Live humans.

Mitch

We haven't been able to send humans since the last space shuttle flew (which has been discontinued)

@tchrist Good point.

@tchrist I'd go see that.

US is in better position to make a movie about space stations than an actual one.

We know where our talents lie

tchrist

2:51 PM

@Mitch We’ve parabolically talented, per Matthew 25.

Mitch

looks it up

Wait... who're the foolish virgins in this story?

Wow...I got to the bags of gold parable. Very harsh, taking away from the guy who got the least.

gotta run...talk soon!

Cerberus

Hi!

@tchrist How is your winter?

tchrist

8

Cerberus

F?

tchrist

Heading to 50 today though.

Still have a foot of snow. That should change presently.

Cerberus

3:06 PM

So 10C? That's warmer than I expected.

tchrist

It was 8F thisw morning.

Cerberus

It's 12C here, which is probably a record high.

Oh.

At night, it is more like 7 here.

I'm not wearing gloves today.

tchrist

I’ll see your 7 and unraise you 8.

Cerberus

Brrr.

That is the Dutch sound of shivering.

tchrist

You could skate the canals at 8.

Cerberus

3:08 PM

Yeah, if the cold lasts.

The last time that was possible is I think 3 or 4 years ago.

Matt E. Эллен

3:42 PM

@Mitch thanks! I won't need to drop by your office, now!

@KitZ.Fox do two mods equal three users? :D

tchrist

Hemiola

In music, hemiola (also hemiolia) is the ratio 3:2. The equivalent Latin term is sesquialtera. == EtymologyEdit == The word hemiola comes from the Greek adjective ἡμιόλιος, hemiolios, meaning "containing one and a half," "half as much again," "in the ratio of one and a half to one (3:2), as in musical sounds." The words "hemiola" and "sesquialtera" both signify the ratio 3:2, and in music were first used to describe relations of pitch. Dividing the string of a monochord in this ratio produces the interval of a perfect fifth. Beginning in the 15th century, both words were also used to desc...

That's what we call an opus moderandi. :)

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist I like them odds

Kit Z. Fox

If anyone upvoted me here, I'm editing the question so you can downvote. If you feel like it. meta.english.stackexchange.com/a/7432/8360

tchrist

3:58 PM

A hemiola is also when you’re just about to say hi to somebody and get cut off.

3

Hugo

4:15 PM

@KitZ.Fox switched to a downvote!

still need +5 on two of these three +4s: english.stackexchange.com/questions/289818/… english.stackexchange.com/questions/282249/… english.stackexchange.com/questions/293940/…

Kit Z. Fox

I need views here, if folks don't mind refreshing once in a while.

Mitch

4:35 PM

+1 hemiola

Can someone star that for
me?

So which next duo lingo language should I learn? Turkish or Hungarian?

Matt E. Эллен

Targaryen

Mitch

Klingon is idiotic

I don't watch GoT

Matt E. Эллен

nor do I

Mitch

I am partial to Tolkien stuff but it's not in duo lingo so it doesn't exist

Matt E. Эллен

does it have Greek yet?

Mitch

4:39 PM

I'm... I think only from Greek to others. So it works best if you already know Greek

Matt E. Эллен

doesn't look like it :(

Mitch

I think that's the real test, to learn X -> Y then Y->Z then Z->Y

So you translate "out of sight, out of mind" and end up with "invisible idiot"

Anonymous

@KitZ.Fox Oh, a nice question about aspect!

Matt E. Эллен

Mahlzeit, wunderkind

Anonymous

Progressive be needing is perfectly grammatical but really quite restricted.

Anonymous

4:47 PM

> Unlike what Nobel Economics Laureate Milton Friedman had predicted, that nations don't need reserves under flexible exchange rates, economies in practice are needing more and more reserves today under a floating exchange regime than they ever needed under fixed exchange rates.

Anonymous

> Yeah, there's no question that exercise has a biological effect. It affects metabolism. It affects a lot of body biochemistry. We don't know if it effects endorphin levels, but it certainly affects other neurotransmitters, so they may be needing more and more and more exercise, but they talked about the psychological reasons, not only the physiological reasons, how it makes them feel about themselves.

Anonymous

One of the situations it's restricted to is this sort of "waxing/waning" type of use, as you can see from the examples above.

Anonymous

Whether progressive be needing works depends on whether you can successfully construe it as a dynamic verb rather than a stative one, as stative verbs don't appear in the progressive construction. And to do that, it has to be compatible with the type of dynamic meaning you want to add. The waxing/waning thing is just one example. There are other sorts, like indicating that a state is temporary, for example.

Anonymous

Is there already a question and answer that discusses this more generally somewhere?

Mitch

I'm loving it!

Anonymous

5:07 PM

Which is fine, but different.

Damkerng T.

More and more learners are needing it!

Anonymous

Lexical aspect is, well, lexical, which means that one verb might work in the progressive with one kind of dynamic meaning, while another won't.

Anonymous

Or a verb might develop a new meaning that appears in the dynamic sense.

Delta Escher

Let's play the game now!

so bored

Anonymous

"Stative verbs" don't really make up a class of verbs that all work the same way. They're individual and have their own lexical properties.

Anonymous

5:15 PM

So I'm lovin' it! fits into the same general category (verbs that are usually stative being used with dynamic meaning), but the details are different.

Kit Z. Fox

There is a link to the I'm lovin' it question on mine.

I'm glad you liked it.

Anonymous

I think I'll try to write an answer later :-)

Anonymous

Although I see it's already got lots of answers.

Kit Z. Fox

I'm happy to read more. It's one of my oldest questions.

I guess I need to get the chatbot back.

Hugo

5:42 PM

thanks, Do You Even Lift? hatted!

Mitch

I can't even.

I'm not sure exactly what, but not even.

crl

I can't odd

Mitch

What're the odds of that?

crl

@Hugo youtube.com/watch?v=PRlJWcPzg-8 yes

there should be a record for the highest liftedWeight/personWeight

hmm midgets would win

Mitch

Ants would win

crl

6:04 PM

yea hehe, the size/volume thing (it plays more a role for jump height for ex), small things beat us for that

Cerberus

@snailboat Do you feel that the progressive construction adds much in those examples, over simply need?

Hugo

6:30 PM

I think this Q and this A both deserve to get to +10: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/7461/…

OR: the Q deserves +10 and someone's answer deserves +10 :)

Kit Z. Fox

Going for a hat?

Hugo

yes!

Matt E. Эллен

7:29 PM

so now the world has given in to literally meaning figuratively is the next fight going to be over legitimately meaning ... well ... it seems to be either actually or very.

Mitch

7:40 PM

@MattE.Эллен legiterally?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch illegiterally cromulent

Mitch

"The word's incorrect meaning cromerulently pushed out the original meaning."

Hugo

trying for my first bounty at Linguistics.SE: linguistics.stackexchange.com/a/15335/702

Matt E. Эллен

7:59 PM

I think it's legitimately worth a question if I can source a few more examples...

Hugo

Twitter legitimately to the rescue! twitter.com/JohnnyUtah_NG/status/677914832239202304 twitter.com/normwilner/status/677907311457906688 twitter.com/ycove/status/677621232326561796 twitter.com/Maven/status/677591913734664193 twitter.com/EM__DMA/status/677200035562565632 twitter.com/dickfundy/status/676979588480782336 and there's many, many more

Matt E. Эллен

thanks!

Hugo

8:16 PM

just found this: findwords.info/term search for a word, get a definition from the OED. I'm guessing they're from older editions of the OED than OED.com as they look a bit older, but could be very useful for those without OED.com access

2

Matt E. Эллен

0

Q: What meaning is "legitimate(ly)" gaining?

I'm familiar with the following meanings of legitimately In a way that conforms to the law or to rules and In a way that can be defended with logic or justification; fairly (both from ODO) But recently I have seen legitimately and legitimate used to mean something else. I can't tell...

meaning adjectives adverbs

Johan Larsson

8:32 PM

No sign of Rob

tchrist

0

Q: ''due to'' or ''because of''

So I stumbled upon this sentence: ''Aside from a flexible vagina which is due to the pelvic muscles' elasticity [...]'' And I wonder, shouldn't there be ''because of''? Because it modifies the adjective ''flexible'', and for ''due to'' to be right shouldn't it have been ''the flexibility of vag...

grammar phrases nouns adjectives

Matt E. Эллен

8:55 PM

@tchrist I think "due to" and "because of" aren't disallowed because they follow a noun/pronoun or verb in either case due to not finding either a problem in that question because of some ignorance I must harbour.

user174558

@MattE.Эллен I have provided a legitimate answer, hopefully, after much thinking.

Anonymous

@MattE.Эллен Seems like a legit use of the word to me :-)

Anonymous

You might compare words like real(ly), very, actual(ly), serious(ly), truly, or literal(ly).

user174558

It was after some legitimate thinking that I gave the answer.

user174558

Meanings of words are not well-defined. I just picked the best fit.

Matt E. Эллен

9:09 PM

@snailboat to me, it's synonymous with justifiable (or legally, but obviously that's not what she means), so that's why it doesn't fit for me. You can't look justifiably scared. Your fear can be justifiable, but the justification doesn't show in your face

@snailboat but, yes, I'm beginning to agree with Jasper and you

user174558

I am very proud that my answer is only one line.

Anonymous

Hot. I just can't agree with what you're saying. You're basically pointing out "there are tortured ways to correctly interpret the first two". You're missing the overwhelming everyday reality that idiots have started using "legitimately" as "very". — Joe Blow 15 mins ago

Anonymous

I like this comment. We should also do away with very meaning 'very'. It's a slippery slope!

Matt E. Эллен

lol

user174558

This world is a slippery slope.

user174558

9:15 PM

6

Q: Chat: What is a Room Owner?

I've been a room owner of various chat rooms: chat rooms I created myself, and now, the ELU main chat. But what IS a room owner? What can a room owner do, what can't they do, what should they do? Also, how can a regular user find or identify room owners?

support faq chat chat-faq

user174558

Is someone supposed to provide an answer to this faq?

user174558

@MattE.Эллен The cake fits well into the mouth of the orc.

Anonymous

@MattE.Эллен I'm used to it being used that way, so it's unremarkable to me. Maybe I'm ahead of the curve on that one.

Matt E. Эллен

@snailboat or I'm behind!

user174558

@snailboat I think this meaning is something I have seen several times as well.

user174558

9:19 PM

@MattE.Эллен It's OK to be behind, just don't be the behind.

Anonymous

I was amused when I started noticing the phrase "what the actual fuck" popping up.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Anonymous

I'm always interested to see how words in that semantic class change over time.

user174558

I think fuck has like 50 meanings or something.

Matt E. Эллен

@snailboat which class is that?

Anonymous

9:21 PM

Words that describe the relationship between something and the truth or what is real. True, truely, very, verily, real, really, actual, actually, literal, literally, serious, seriously, legitimate, legitimately, etc.

Matt E. Эллен

ah!

Anonymous

You can figure out which words you think fit in the class. I'm not sure exactly.

Anonymous

I never put legitimate(ly) in the list until today. :-)

Matt E. Эллен

I'm sure it's ~~very~~ legitimately pleased!

Anonymous

It seems to fit, though, doesn't it?

Matt E. Эллен

9:23 PM

yes

seems legit

user174558

Joe Blow's answer is poorly punctuated.

user174558

There are at least two commas that need to be removed.

user174558

Aurast's answer has at least one comma splice.

Anonymous

You're paying very close attention to punctuation lately, aren't you? :-)

user174558

Yes, hehe. I read Larry Trask's Guide To Punctuation long ago, but it turns out that the tips in it are not conventional.

Anonymous

9:38 PM

I haven't read that book.

user174558

Now that I have read it, I would recommend against it, because of the above.

Anonymous

He wrote one of the standard historical linguistics textbooks, though! :-)

user174558

That book is more like how Larry thinks punctuation should be, instead of how it actually is.

Anonymous

I think that's what a lot of books on punctuation are like.

Anonymous

If you try to describe actual usage, things get pretty tricky because there's so much variation.

Anonymous

9:41 PM

Most descriptive linguists try their best to pretend that written language doesn't exist.

Anonymous

And to the extent that it does, it's merely an imperfect way of representing real language, which is speech.

user174558

Wow, you sound like a first class linguist!

Anonymous

Geoffrey Nunberg wrote The Linguistics of Punctuation (1990), an attempt at a descriptive approach to punctuation.

Anonymous

Unfortunately, it's saddled with a sort of generative framework I'm not really fond of. But I think he makes some pretty good points in the introduction.

Hugo

anyone need any votes?

Anonymous

9:44 PM

> As Bloomfield famously put it, "Writing is not language, but merely a means of recording language by means of visual marks." [ . . . ] The contrastive approach has militated against the development of the autonomous study of written language as a linguistic system in its own right. [ . . . ] Indeed, current approaches to writing presuppose that there couldn't be much to say about the subject. [ . . . ]

Anonymous

> It should no longer be necessary to defend the view that writing is truly language, [ . . . ] The contrastive approach makes it difficult to consider those features of written texts that have no obvious analogues in speech, or whose spoken-language analogues are either theoretically marginal or poorly understood.

Anonymous

> In particular, linguists have almost wholly ignored the graphical circumstances of the written language, [ . . . ] In a typical book, for example, written lexical expressions are presented in concert with punctuation marks [ . . . ] It can of course be argued that many of these conventions are not part of the written language itself, [ . . . ] But that argument has to be made on principled grounds.

Anonymous

That's starting on page 1 of The Linguistics of Punctuation.

Matt E. Эллен

I think that the vast propagation of internet communication disproves that writing isn't language. Things have evolved in written language that do not exist in spoken language :eggplant:

user174558

It's all a matter of defining language.

Matt E. Эллен

9:49 PM

language is a banana

user174558

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

user174558

Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant.

2

Matt E. Эллен

Jean Luc Picard but James T Kirk

user174558

Your question has 5 votes but my answer only 2, LOL.

Hugo

@JohnNash any comments on the curly brackets?

user174558

9:53 PM

@Hugo Yes, it shouldn't be used.

user174558

I would like to mention that Oxford Dictionaries Online is an approximation of the Oxford Dictionary of English, the largest single volume English dictionary published by Oxford.

user174558

6 AM here.

Phonics The Hedgehog

yo guise

@KitZ.Fox Z is your middle name?

Anonymous

10:17 PM

@JohnNash I wish they'd label it clearly. They changed it from the ODO label you just used to "Oxford Dictionaries".

Kit Z. Fox

@PhonicsTheHedgehog Yes.

Phonics The Hedgehog

@KitZ.Fox Ah, interesting. Didn't know. Is it just Z like how Trueman just had S?

Anonymous

People mix up the "Oxford Dictionaries" website (ODE/NOAD) with the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) all the time, but they're completely different.

Kit Z. Fox

@Hugo I need views.

Hugo

clicky

Kit Z. Fox

10:19 PM

@PhonicsTheHedgehog Yes, except it is Z for Zed, so it's confusing.

Hugo

I need votes

Phonics The Hedgehog

@KitZ.Fox hahaha... (British pronunciation joke, right?)

Desperately hopes for it to be a joke

Hugo

Zed as in Zed Zed Top

Phonics The Hedgehog

Oh, so I guess it was a joke.

Johan Larsson

@Cerb link

Mitch

10:25 PM

@snailboat are they completely different? I think they are associated.

@MattE.Эллен Your language eggplant isn't making sense

Phonics The Hedgehog

@Mitch How's it going m8

Hugo

@KitZ.Fox maybe a bounty will help with views?

I wonder if it's realistic to get this to 10k?

Anonymous

@Mitch They're associated in that they have the same publisher.

Anonymous

They both have the word Oxford in the title.

Anonymous

That's about as far as the similarity goes.

Hugo

10:41 PM

when new words are added to ODO the papers always say they've been added to the OED, so they made an OEDODOFAQ: public.oed.com/about/frequently-asked-questions/#oedodo

and public.oed.com/about/the-oed-and-oxford-dictionaries

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…