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12:02 AM
@KitFox - Nope. We like you guys, honest! Just, please, please, everybody stop migrating terrible questions here. (i.e., ones we have to close as soon as we see them.)
A great rule of thumb: If it's about the actual process of writing or the business of writing, we'd love to see it. If it's an unanswerable, unclear, chatty question, just close it and be done with it.
 
For the record, I rarely vote to migrate to Writers because I know nothing about what you guys like, and I hate throwing crap questions at you.
 
Fair enough. Feel free anytime to ask us if we want a question. You could ping me or @standback in out chat room, or here, or in comments. (I've closed questions in the past, then discovered that there's a home for them, re-opened and then migrated.)
Stuff about grammar or proofreading is off-topic. Grammar questions we'll bounce to you guys.
I figure it's gotta be tough on users to have their question moved and then closed right away. Kinda sucks for them.
Apologies if I get testy about it from time to time!
 
@ladenedge Generally, those types of questions should be fine here. Considering that that particular question is more about Greek than English, however, I'm a bit more hesitant about whether it's on-topic... (pinging @regdwight just in case you have a different opinion)
And (generally, to both the Lit and Writers mods, as well as anyone else hanging around in here) is that the only question that needs an on-topic/off-topic response that hasn't already been addressed? I think the others have already gotten responses; ping me if one didn't.
 
user19161
12:22 AM
@Mahnax Yeah, now that I think about it, I shouldn't vote to migrate to other sites that I know nothing about.
 
user19161
@KitFox Not if we give them some of our cookies!
 
@MattЭллен I would certainly eat it! What is it?
Where is everybody?
I come home and there's nobody here!
 
user19161
@Cerberus Who do you expect?
 
Hullo!
I don't know.
 
user19161
@Cerberus Well, never mind, I am here!
 
12:38 AM
Excellent!
 
user19161
Kit is probably busy eating her cookies again...
 
Just like her.
I'm drinking tea and eating dessert.
 
user19161
I am still laughing over what you said yesterday.
 
Oh?
Perhaps see a doctor.
 
user19161
About how the staff in Hades get to watch videos.
 
12:39 AM
Oh, hehe.
 
@JasperLoy - Send me cookies and you can send as many questions to Writers as you like. :D
 
Well, some people are equaller than others.
Hi!
I have seen you before.
 
user19161
@Cerberus See, now you need to see the doc as well.
 
But not in chat.
@JasperLoy I'm just drunk.
So forgive me any impertinences I will commit.
 
user19161
@Cerberus Very good. Don't worry about saying something wrong. I already know all your secrets!
 
12:41 AM
Oh, do you?
How did you find them out?
 
user19161
@NeilFein Sure I stored them in your browser.
 
Nom nom nom
 
You sound drunk too.
 
user19161
@Cerberus I peered into your soul with my mind.
 
Both of you.
How very...perspicacious my mind must be.
 
12:42 AM
@Cerberus - I have cookies from Jasper, will you send me booze? Mmmmm. Potato vodka if you have it, please. :)
 
user19161
@NeilFein Never heard of potato vodka.
 
@NeilFein Sorry, the choice is between beer and beer.
I don't believe Russian cuisine originally included potatoes!
 
@jasperLoy - Ah. I envy you! Try it!
It's amazingly smooth, especially when left in the freezer.
 
Is it as transparent as real vodka?
 
It looks exactly the same.
Now I want some.
Just saw, Wikipedia says they make vodka from all kinds of stuff - including molasses.
Vodka (, , , ) is a distilled beverage. It is composed primarily of water and ethanol with traces of impurities and flavorings. Vodka is made by the distillation of fermented substances such as grains, potatoes, or sometimes fruits and/or sugar. Traditionally prepared vodkas had an alcoholic content of 38% by volume. Today, the standard Ukraininan, Belarusian, Polish, Russian and Lithuanian vodkas are 40% alcohol by volume (ABV) or 80 proof. The European Union has established a minimum of 37.5% ABV for any "European vodka" to be named as such. For homemade vodkas and distilled bever...
 
12:51 AM
Funny...
What is vodka anyway?
 
That article dies a good job explaining it. But, for most people, I think it's basically a splitting headache in a bottle.
 
Haha.
I always seems like pure alcohol mixed with water to me.
 
1:08 AM
Helllooo.
 
@NeilFein precisely. questions about reference tools are off-topic at ELU.
 
@JSBngs - Ah, I see. I didn't know that.
 
Helll-o!
 
@Cerberus Cerb, are you drunk again?
 
How are you doing, snake?
@Mahnax Does it help if I lie?
 
1:13 AM
@Cerberus sighs
 
Not really drunk. Just a couple of beers.
5 or 6.
 
sputters
A couple is two.
5 or six is 2.5-3x a couple.
 
An open-minded couple, then.
 
Ahahaha…
Very good.
 
First I attended a lecture by an ex-madam.
 
1:14 AM
Oh, on what topic?
 
Madam as in a woman who runs a brothel. Is that a word n English?
 
@Neil I'm on your band's blog and I'm listening to your music. It's really good!
 
She was basically talking about herself all the time and asking impertinent questions.
 
Oh, that sort of madam.
 
She asked about our sex lives, to which I answered that this was private.
 
1:15 AM
@Mahnax - Hey, thanks! Which CD?
 
She was otherwise nice and fun.
 
@NeilFein The Baroque & Hungry 2012 EP.
 
She ran a famous brothel in New York in the seventies.
 
Recored in my attic!
 
@Cerberus what do you think of this?
 
1:15 AM
@NeilFein Wow!
 
Oh, wait, maybe that was confidential.
 
C'est possible.
 
I, for one, saw nothing
 
Good, good.
 
My lips are sealed, parce que I saw it.
 
1:16 AM
Very good reason.
 
they say it is the oldest profession
 
How long was the presentation?
@skullpatrol Probably true, too.
BTW, AdBlock Plus was created by an SEer.
 
Does anyone know what the second oldest profession is?
 
@Vitaly Hmm I don't know what to think.
@skullpatrol Yup!
 
@skullpatrol Uh, alcohol-making?
 
1:19 AM
@Mahnax Yeah, Vladimir is active on History.
He's really an OK guy.
 
@Cerberus I've done a little on History.
 
Good.
 
@Cerberus Whaddaya mean?
 
@Mahnax Nope.
 
I am an historian by trade, by somehow I find History.SE a bit Wikipediesque.
@Mahnax I like AB+, I like the attitude he has espoused in the past, and I have chatted with him on History.
@skullpatrol Thievery?
 
1:21 AM
@Cerberus tch "An historian" makes you sound all pretentious.
@Cerberus Ooh, good one.
 
@Mahnax Bah. It's standard!
 
@Cerberus Nope.
 
I've always said it like that.
@skullpatrol Farmer?
 
BINGO!!!!
 
Really?
 
1:22 AM
@Cerberus Do you know how many times I hear that phrase at work? yeacchhh
 
Yup
 
Hmm I expected something weirder.
@Mahnax Aww. All the people at Burger King say "an hamburger"?
 
@Cerberus No, the "it's standard."
 
@skullpatrol Haven't they invented farming only recently?
 
D'oh.
But "an hamburger" sounds funner.
 
1:23 AM
@Vitaly Invented?
 
I do like "an one", by the way.
 
@skullpatrol In a sense.
 
It certainly came after hunting.
And foraging.
So @Vit, what was this about the latent inhibitions?
 
I guess it depends on your definition of a profession also.
 
No kidding!!
 
1:25 AM
@Cerberus inhibition*, -the
 
Tion, then.
 
I wouldn't call a hooker/madam a professional.
 
user19161
A madam is a hooker?
 
I read it, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
 
@skullpatrol Mine would be: an occupation undertaken as a means of subsistence.
 
1:26 AM
@JasperLoy Woman who runs a brothel.
 
@JasperLoy Yes.
 
@skullpatrol Depends on whether you feel called to it.
 
No kidding!!
 
user19161
A madam is a hooker and a madam is a palindrome, so a hooker is a palindrome. QED.
 
None!!
 
1:28 AM
@Cerberus I'm interested whether there's any easy way to lower it even further. I suspect that my latent inhibition might be slightly decreased—remember our talk about my trying to remove all insignificant visual stimuli in my computer room?
 
A madam need not be a hooker, although tonight's madam was one. She kept the best (i.e. most attractive) customers to herself.
 
@Cerberus madam=hooker and hooker=madam
 
@Vitaly I remember your blank keyboard.
 
@skullpatrol False.
 
@skullpatrol Naaaah.
 
1:30 AM
@Mahnax True.
 
Our madam was criticised by a Parisian colleague, who said that a madam should never bed clients!
 
@Cerberus Yupppers.
 
So that's one person disagreeing with you.
 
@skullpatrol No, a madam is in charge of the prostitutes. She doesn't necessarily have to be one herself.
 
@Vitaly Perhaps you should check out some research papers on latent inhibition, with double-blind tests.
 
1:31 AM
@Cerberus ion*
 
Ugh, maybe it's spelling checker.
 
@Mahnax Does a general ever have to be a soldier?
 
Hmmm, no.
Oh, well.
I'm not very inhibited myself at the moment.
 
@skullpatrol I have no idea. I am not well-acquainted with military terms.
 
@skullpatrol Certainly not.
Most generals are never soldiers.
 
1:33 AM
Were they born generals?
All I'm saying is that in any "profession" you have to move up through the ranks.
 
@skullpatrol Where did you get that idea?
3
 
@Cerberus Reality.
 
Officers are generally recruited from the educated classes, at least here.
Some officers may have moved up.
But that is a new trend, and it is probably still rare.
Just as nurses don't become doctors.
 
Hi @Mitch
 
I mean, some do, but most doctors were never nurses.
So @Vit, do you feel you are often distracted by external stimuli? Can you study on the train?
 
1:41 AM
@Cerberus But if there is no nurse available a doctor must be able to fill in correct?
 
@skullpatrol That may happen.
 
@skullpatrol hey
 
But I don't think many doctors would be able to carry out a nurse's job for a day without extensive instruction.
Many madams are older and bordering on ugly.
It's always been like that.
 
@Cerberus If all the hookers are taken the madam will do the job "without extensive instruction ;-)
 
Xaviera Hollander was able to fill in; but she would not be able to now!
@skullpatrol Old and ugly!
 
1:45 AM
@Cerberus all the hookers are taken!
;D
all the soldiers are dead ... the general must fight
 
@Cerberus false analogy
you train from the beginning to become a doctor, and likewise from the beginning to become a nurse.
 
@Mitch So do officers.
 
you have to move up through the ranks
 
at least in modern militaries, it is totally a meritocracy. to become a general you start off in the military. Yes, you prbably didn't start at the lowest rank, probably the lowest -officer-.
 
Would you want to move up through these ranks? ^
@Mitch It is not at all like that here.
 
1:49 AM
where is here?
 
Holland.
 
thank you
 
what is it like there?
 
You are assigned to whatever kind of job suits your education.
And it used to be that only educated boys would join officer training.
So nearly all current generals started with officer training.
 
well, actually that's no so different as here...the second sentence.
 
1:51 AM
So being a general does not necessarily mean that you ever were a solider at all.
 
yes, I'd say american generals started in the military with officer training.
 
@Cerberus Ain't Photoshop grand?
 
(as opposed to moving in from CEO or university president)
 
@Robusto Thanks, but it's not my work, alas.
In any case, a madam does not have to be working as a hooker too.
 
but to follow analogies, a general -now- certainly was a lower officer before, and if there was an actice war at the time, probably saw combat (as an officer in the field)
 
1:54 AM
Sure, high-ranking officers can't be promoted out of nowhere.
 
i'm glad to see that we're exploring the finer points of the soldier/hooker parallel
 
Thanks!!
But actually it was Skull's idea.
 
and with prostitution, management doesn't get there by education but by experience and merit. ergo (and I mean it to sting), madams most likely were prostitutes.
or I could be wrong.
@JSBᾶngs it's important.
 
By the way, our madam never worked as a hooker before she started working as a madam. He parents were highly educated. Her father was a famous psychiatrist.
 
@Cerberus in 19thc and before they might have been, promoted out of social rank.
 
1:55 AM
And she was highly educated too: she attended the gymnasium.
 
@Cerberus you have a madam? i missed this part of the conversation
 
he saw a lecture.
 
@Cerberus you do know that gymnasium means something else in english, right?
 
you know, personal edificatino
but that's what they call it.
 
The finer points of "the pecking order" are being explored.
 
1:56 AM
@JSBᾶngs Yes, but the Dutch word takes precedence.
 
read: college prep high school
 
@Mitch There usually was some perfunctory cursus honorum, I believe.
 
@Cerberus what is the term for vocational high school?
 
The profession of prostitute is much maligned. Think of courtesans, hetairae, geisha ...
 
what's a hetairae?
 
1:57 AM
Although, to be fair, geisha and hetairae were not all about sex.
 
what's a cursus honorum? (instead of googling it all)
 
@Mitch Ancient Greek courtesan.
 
@Mitch Beroepsonderwijs, which could be Hoger or Middelbaar or Lager.
 
a shrine prostitute?
@Cerberus a beer?
 
@Robusto Yeah, our madam/hooker was more like a courtisane. Her NYC brothel only catered to wealthy clients, I believe.
 
1:59 AM
apropos, did we all see that adultery hook-up site that Jez posted?
 
@Mitch The course of honours, i.e. the trajectory of promotions one needed to go through in Roman society. One was never promoted to consul in one step, even if one were the Emperor's son.
@JSBᾶngs No, but you did!
 
@Cerberus ok I got it, for Roman officers and politicians
 
Politicians, mostly.
 
so was that another analogy for prostitutino os am I supposed to make that case?
 
Certain officers could be promoted to high ranks out of nowhere (though not the very highest ranks).
 
2:01 AM
Didn't Claudius do absolutely nothing militarily or politically bu then became emperor by some bizarre machinatinos?
 
@Mitch I was talking about officers in European armies in the 19th century, which you referred to: I think some cursus honorum was normally required, i.e. no parachuting to the highest ranks.
 
and then went on to conquer something nominal?
 
@Mitch Militarily, yes; politically, sort of.
But emperors are no part of the c.h..
And Claudius was actually quite a decent emperor.
 
yes, I suppose, in -your- world.
 
Much better than his predecessor or successor.
 
2:03 AM
right.
 
Have you seen I, Claudius?
 
I've heard that Nero was unnecessarily maligned. something like the traffic was bad getting in to rome when the fire started.
and somebody made up the violin story.
 
Haha.
 
I have the comix.
the nero story I really did hear about (and I think what I read was serious). But it could just be terribly wrong.
 
Not sure about the violin, but I think he did sing some kind of ode on the burning city according to some Roman writer.
Tacitus or Suetonius probably.
 
2:05 AM
I think there's a connection...Seneca wrote a bunch of stuff bad mouthing buch of emperors (after they were dead).
 
But he was Nero's advisor and tutor!
 
And Robert Graves wrote I, Claudius to correct the record in the popular imagination (because up to then most people had gotten their ideas about Claudius from these satires)
 
Did he even live to see Nero's death?
Yeah, I.C. is quite good.
 
I can't remember the order...Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero...
Is that right?
 
Ding!
 
2:07 AM
Claudius became emperor when he was older, I think.
 
Yes.
 
so it might make sense that he was a tutor to the younger Nero.
 
I am pleased with your knowledge.
 
old memory.
 
@Mitch Who?
Seneca tutored Nero, not Claudius.
 
2:08 AM
what 'who'?
Ohhhh.....
 
Nero may have poisoned Claudius.
Hmm or was that Messalina? Or Agrippina?
 
I'm sure (in the story) it was one of the women.
 
I'd put my bet on Messalina.
Whore.
 
is that Nero' mom?
 
No, Claudius' wife.
Agrippina is Nero's mother.
Claudius was her second husband, and she had him adopt Nero.
Wait, then it couldn't have been Messalina.
 
2:12 AM
Public education probably would have prevented all that mess.
 
Hmm?
 
I can't remember...I just remember that Claudius's first wife's name was as ugly as Graves described her..start with an 'H'
 
(Btw, Claudius had Messalina, his third wife, executed at some point. Then he married Agrippina. I looked it up.)
 
@Cerberus (I was being weird)
 
@Mitch Hmm no idea.
 
2:14 AM
google is great
Urgulanilla
 
Oh ahha, yes.
 
a feminine Hercules
 
That sounds familiar.
She was Etruscan.
I remember now.
 
yeah, Etruscans are like that.
 
It was possibly one of the reasons why Claudius was so much interested in Etruscan: has was the last person who we know could understand Etruscan.
 
2:16 AM
as an academic
 
I read that a few days ago on Wiki.
@Mitch I think as anyone.
 
it's not lik they were wiped out, were they? weren't they just simply assimilated?
 
Assimilated.
 
and the rest was history.
 
@Cerberus Have you ever read I, Claudius by Robert Graves?
 
2:17 AM
as far as anything ending a few seconds is history.
 
The Etruscans had a rich literature, as noted by Latin authors. Unfortunately, only one book (now unreadable) has survived. By AD 100, Etruscan had been replaced by Latin.

Only a few educated Romans with antiquarian interests, such as Varro, could read Etruscan. The last person known to have been able to read Etruscan was the Roman emperor Claudius (10 BC – AD 54), the author of a treatise in twenty volumes on the Etruscans, Tyrrenikà (now lost), who compiled a dictionary (also lost) by interviewing the last few elderly rustics who still spoke the language. Urgulanilla, the emperor's first
@Robusto Only watched the series. We were just discussing it.
It's pretty great.
 
do you have a link for that?
 
The Etruscan language was spoken and written by the Etruscan civilization, in what is present-day Italy, in the ancient region of Etruria (modern Tuscany plus western Umbria and northern Latium) and in parts of Lombardy, Veneto, and Emilia-Romagna (where the Etruscans were displaced by Gauls). Etruscan was superseded completely by Latin, leaving only a few documents and some loanwords in Latin, such as persona (from Etruscan φersu), and some place-names, such as Roma. History of Etruscan literacy Etruscan literacy was widespread over the Mediterranean shores, as evidenced by about 13,00...
That's where I last read about the magnificent Urgulanilla.
 
@Cerberus Well, the book is way better. Actually, it's two books: I, Claudius and Claudius the God.
 
@Robusto I'll take your word for it.
 
2:21 AM
the series is a lot of fun (in the dull camera work BBC way) and the book gave lots of well modern sounding anecdotes like when Octavian and Lidia where running from being assasinated and they had a baby Tiberius, and how he was crying and almost gave them away....well, it sounded modern at the time.
 
@Cerberus You shouldn't. Graves was a great stylist, master of the first-person narrative. Also a legitimate classical scholor.
The history is echt, and he brings it to life.
 
and it's entertaining too.
 
@Mitch Hmm I don't remember that scene.
 
not in the TV show, but in the book (sort of back story about Lidia and how manipulative and evil she was).
 
@Robusto Yeah he did a good job (though modern historians are quick to point out various mistakes, of course...).
@Mitch Don't you mean Livia?
I know a girl named Livia.
Her sisters are called Julia and Claudia (no joke).
 
2:24 AM
Hmm.. yes, probably Livia.
 
She's Augustus's scheming wife.
 
yes, Livia
 
I lived reading Tacitus.
 
@Cerberus Historians are always finding mistakes in previous authors' works.
 
I think she ws only looking out for her loved ones.
well, the ones she loved.
 
2:25 AM
When I was researching a novel about England before the Norman Conquest, I started being able to trace errors to their source. It was quite entertaining.
 
@Robusto Yes, but his was popular, not actually academic. Still, it was great for a non-academic work.
 
@Cerberus Who else does it well is Robert Harris.
 
@Robusto Good, good. Being an historian is fun.
@Robusto I'm not going to keep changing these lines.
fuzzy mind
 
All about Marcus Tullius Cicero, ostensibly written by his amanuensis, Tiro.
 
Nice.
Though I'm not sure the In Verrem is the most reliable source...
 
2:31 AM
Also.
Anyway, bedtime for me. Laterz.
 
Night!
 
3:16 AM
hooray! i just won the sealed tournament!
 
 
1 hour later…
4:39 AM
@JSBᾶngs You're playing WMT? How did I miss this? Congrats!
 
@Cerberus I'm on mission 75.
After 66 everything gets easy again.
 
Wow, quick progress.
 
Yeah, I decided to play a bit more often.
Right now I'm listening to Jack White's new album.
C'est « Blunderbuss ».
 
Ah, j'aime les blunderbuss.
Rien meilleur à détruire les ennemis!
Okay, I know that sentence sucks.
But it's bed time.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:31 AM
Cool! Somebody I haven't talked to for just over 23 years just contradicted me on Programmers.SE. That doesn't happen every day!
5
A: The bracketless if statement is frowned upon, but is it still bad style if your IDE is equipped for it?

David WallaceReadability and maintainability are, in most circumstances, the two most important attributes of any piece of code. Using conditional logic without braces reduces readability, which is why it's considered bad style. Having a fancy IDE doesn't turn bad style into good style. Don't do it.

 
7:22 AM
Hooray!!! I got my first starred message in this room.
Thank you.
 
8:09 AM
You should post single-word messages more often.
 
Yes.
@DavidWallace Pop quiz time: What was Mark Twain's real name?
no googling...
 
Everybody knows that.
 
Off the top of their heads?
 
Well, most well-educated English-speaking people would, yes. I find the question slightly insulting, if you must know.
 
I apologize for slightly insulting you :-(
 
8:24 AM
No problem.
 
8:54 AM
@Cerberus I thought the difference between a courtesan and a prostitute was how long you hired one for. Like you might hire a courtesan to be your girlfriend for a week, whereas you typically hire a prostitute by the half-hour. Have I got that wrong?
 
user19161
@skullpatrol There are only stars in the sky.
 
user19161
@skullpatrol Oh dear, I really don't know.
 

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