English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-08-19 (page 1 of 6)

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2:18 AM

Three questions in one:

-1

Q: About 'ensuring' and 'map to our world' and 'around'

Autonomy was founded upon a vision to dramatically change the way in which we interact with information and computers, ensuring that computers map to our world, rather than the other way around 'ensuring + ...', Could you give me a grammatical name for this kind of structure, what's the rel...

meaning grammar

i would be filled with rage, but my work has tapped out my rage quotient for the day

@JSBᾶngs I just voted to close. I channeled my rage

@JSBngs Are you a linguist for a living?

@simchona no. i'm a programmer. hence the rage.

@JSBᾶngs A lot of CIS people in here. Did you study linguistics on the side then?

I ask because you backed me and Kit up in the Japanese language debate

@simchona i studied linguistics but did programming on the side. programming was more lucrative

2:23 AM

@JSBᾶngs Oh cool. I was studying Linguistics (I'm still in college), but switched out

1 min ago, by JSBᾶngs

@simchona no. i'm a programmer. hence the rage.

^ this should have been starred

@JSBᾶngs You're welcome

@simchona why did you switch out? linguistics is the greatest of all sciences

2

@simchona thanks. see, i'm not afraid to beg for chat stars

@JSBᾶngs Because I didn't like syntax. I wanted more historical linguistics, and there weren't a lot of courses. Even if I could have studied with Labov.

@simchona we mostly agree. historical linguistics is the best. syntax is bad, but it's entirely because of chomsky who was wrong about everything

phonology, though, was what really turned me on

2:25 AM

@JSBᾶngs I also do CIS, so I made my choice to go with Economics rather than Linguistics. I'm still interested in historical linguistics, though.

As my argument with Chaos shows

user image

@simchona right. aren't you also half-japanese, too?

@simchona ah, the dismal science.

@JSBᾶngs Yup. But I don't speak Japanese

i don't either

I can doubly rage. Rage at CIS, and rage at the economy

Yay historical linguistics!

2:27 AM

I didn't like the Japanese argument, though. Because Chaos didn't believe me. And I studied this shiznit.

-1

Q: About 'ensuring' and 'map to our world' and 'around'

Autonomy was founded upon a vision to dramatically change the way in which we interact with information and computers, ensuring that computers map to our world, rather than the other way around 'ensuring + ...', Could you give me a grammatical name for this kind of structure, what's the rel...

meaning grammar

ARGH someone answered it

@simchona chaos is chinese, and the chinese think that they invented everything. i'll forgive him for it, since it's endemic to his culture. (but that doesn't mean he's right.)

@JSBᾶngs He's Korean

@simchona oh, really? well never mind, then. he has no excuse

Which means his "linguistic" argument is even worse.

Oh well. You saved the day, @Jsb!

Hi @aedia!

0

Q: Where and when do you use "a", "an" and "the"?

It's been tough for me put the correct articles in place. Even though at times I find out the correct answers. Still I have troubles in using them. It will be really great, if some tips given where to add those articles.

Dupe

@simchona Aloha!

2:32 AM

@simchona good call. i wish questions about a/an/the were easier to search for

@JSBᾶngs Maybe I'll rename the original question so it comes up

jumps up and down I cast my first close vote! I am so excited!

@aediaλ Congrats!

@aediaλ woo! the first time is always special.

@JSBᾶngs No. I beg to differ.

2:38 AM

@simchona special doesn't have to mean good. maybe "memorable" would have been a better word

anyway, we're talking about close votes, right?

@JSBᾶngs Ah. In that case, yes. The first time is always..."special"

@JSBᾶngs of course. what else?

well, the good news is that attempt #2 at installing the product is going about 30x faster than attempt #1. i have no idea what the problem was with the network the first time

@JSBᾶngs The first time it wanted to take it slow. It wanted it to be special.

@simchona i reinstall this product about once a week, so attempt #1 was more like "attempt #1 today". but i do appreciate the need to take it slow every now and then. they can't all be quickies.

2

@JSBᾶngs It likes to be...massaged

2:45 AM

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū what exactly do you mean by that?

@JSBᾶngs He's being racist.

@simchona i prefer to charitably interpret his comment as a reaction to perceived racism in my joke about "forgiving" him if he were chinese, but not if he were korean

@JSBᾶngs I don't think he understood the English of what you said.

@simchona i don't think he did either

@JSBᾶngs Either way, what he said was offensive. Moving on: someone answered the dupe of the articles question

-1

Q: Where and when do you use "a", "an" and "the"?

It's been tough for me put the correct articles in place. Even though at times I find out the correct answers. Still I have troubles in using them. It will be really great, if some tips given where to add those articles.

I'm taking Martha's point of view here: downvoting closable questions

2:55 AM

There's such a wall of related questions for articles too

@aediaλ Yeah. And the OP is like 'I want tips'...well, read the answers first. There aren't tips, just usage

is there a fashion.se on area51? there should be

12

Style & Fashion

Proposed Q&A site for people who look good and want to look even better.

Currently in definition.

good. followed... though i don't know if i'll commit

you need to show off your Versace?

EH? Read the question now. Why are we spilling?

-1

Q: Where and when do you use "a", "an" and "the"?

It's been tough for me put the correct articles in place. Even though at times I find out the correct answers. Still I have troubles in using them. It will be really great, if some tips given where to add those articles. After reading several q and answers in this site, it will be good even if ...

3:08 AM

user image

^ this is awesome

@JSBᾶngs Is that Legolas?

@simchona i'm not sure who it's supposed to be, but it's awesome

actually i think it's eowyn

@JSBᾶngs I can't tell them apart. I just liked Orlando Bloom

@simchona eowyn and legolas are completely different characters in the book

@JSBᾶngs Who said I read?

3:10 AM

@simchona i'm going to pretend you didn't say that

tor.com/blogs/2011/08/announcing-the-2011-chesley-award-winners <-- these are all pretty cool

@JSBᾶngs Books is for loosers. moovies r da BEST

@JSBᾶngs Sounds probable. But where is Merin?

@Cerberus you mean merry? i'm not sure

Oh, is it Merry? Wow I forgot even that.

@Cerberus Is that Merry + Pippin?

3:12 AM

ah, he's behind the wing on the right

you can barely see him

@simchona Yes.

@JSBᾶngs Well, he is a hobbit.

@JSBᾶngs Ah! I see him.

The Witch King seems so small.

'kay guys, bedtime. work will do itself over the night

Bai.

I'm off too.

3:16 AM

@JSBᾶngs Ooh!

Aw, g'night!

Well, I guess it's just us, @aedia.

Sowwy, bye!

And the silent @Yoda

Bye bye Cerb

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@Cerbeus you heard that Jasper returned, I presume?

Nvm if you are off -_-

@Chaos, do you want me to explain what JSBangs meant earlier?

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

3:24 AM

Do I need to? I'm surprised that you guys actually allow that comment.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Well, you misunderstood some of what he said. But if you don't want me to, I won't.

And if you find it offensive, you can flag it.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

laugh I flagged you calling me racist three times. do you think my flaggin would matter?

@simchona Want a beer? I went out to get some earlier. Flying Dog Table For Two's the new one I'm trying... I'm not that impressed, but it's ok.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Because you were racist.

@aediaλ I'm not a big beer drinker, but thanks for the offer

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū The moderator was in here, watching the conversation. You were being racist, and I called you out on it. That's probably why it wasn't deleted.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

Yeah, and @JSBang's comment wasn't? I'm too sorry to inform you, but it would be best not to mess with me now. ChaosGamer is not avalible right now. I would be not responsible if you provoked me.

3:28 AM

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Then flag it. I didn't provoke you. Flag his comment if it bothers you, but I didn't do anything.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

Well than, why do you even bother to talk to me? The ones responsible should do it, is it not?

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū So I can't talk to you unless I provoke you? And why would he flag his own comment? If you're the one who finds it offensive, you should flag it.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

You know fully well that our personailties are opposites. With brains of yours you should know that by now.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū That has nothing to do with whether you flag what he said or not.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

You asked me whether you can talk to me without provoking me.

3:32 AM

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū You're mixing up cause and effect. I asked if I can't talk to you unless I provoke you. This is what you're implying.

Little ones, shhh, you're making my head spin.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

I already answered.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū You answered the wrong question.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@aedia don't get in. My mood is bad enough.

@simchona I answered. Is it not good enough for you?

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Come over for a beer. That makes things better.

3:34 AM

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū You answered the wrong question.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@aedia I don't DRINK.

This one is sub-par, but I've got some Flying Dog Raging Bitch in the fridge as well.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@simchona Ask again. I lost track

@Chaos, take a time out. Go take a walk around or something. You're just snapping at me.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Always time to start.

3:35 AM

Hell, we're just snapping at each other.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@Aedia please stop before I snap at you too.

I said, ask again.

No. We're not going to go further without snapping at each other, and so I'm not continuing in that vein.

I've calmed down, and I think you should too.

user image

It's one of my favorites. I promise it's real. (Well, at least on my side of the internet it's real. YMMV on the other end of the screen.)

@aediaλ It looks like a flying pug-cat

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

@aedia Will you stop?

3:37 AM

If that doesn't fix everything, a good tea.

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

Good Gods......

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū She's not doing anything. Please go calm down.

@simchona Haha, it kind of does.

@aediaλ The art reminds me of other drawings I've seen

@simchona The artist does all the Flying Dog artwork and some other stuff... I think his name is Steadman?

Lemme look...

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

3:40 AM

Flying Dogs... I ask you...

@simchona Yeah, this guy, Ralph Steadman.

@aediaλ I don't know which I've seen, but it definitely looks familiar

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū I don't think you like the 'laughing cow" brand either

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

I thought so.

@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū What is wrong with you?

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

As I said, ChaosGamer is not available. Opps, gotta go.
*Chaos Controls*

3:44 AM

I take offense to what you said.

So...@aedia...how bout them Eagles.

@simchona I like birdies?

Especially in my check boxes.

@aediaλ that works too. Why are birdies in checkboxes? I thought those were checkmarks

(I don't follow any sports teams whatsoever, except that my husband informs me about the Yankees, so I don't even know what the Eagles are. You could mean the band, for all I know.)

@simchona Today we got asked about what the user does with a checkbox, and I saw for the first time someone calling it a "little birdy".

@aediaλ Oh, I saw that too. I just didn't know if you had used it too

Nope, never heard it before!

I like to try on the novel words and phrases I see, so I don't forget them quite so quickly.

3:52 AM

You try them on?

Like dress-up.

And thanks, @MarcoCeppi

@aediaλ This "callithumpian" looks great, but it makes my hips look big.

Hey, anyone here?

docs.google.com/document/d/…

Google+ users writing a story. I wonder if the English.SE people would find this interesting?

@Moshe did you show this to Writers.SE?

4:08 AM

@simchona Ha! And the pattern's a little loud.

I agree, check on Writers.SE! Probably people there who would be interested, @Moshe. It isn't the optimal time of day, though, if you're trying to catch awake US and UK users.

Those of us on the east coast have yawns gotta be off to sleep.

Omg, if y'all awake are Star Trek geeks though, omg. o. m. g.:

21

Q: Which actors were originally considered for the role of Data in the Star Trek: The Next Generation series?

Please include all who were approached and maybe those who auditioned and later became famous.

star-trek tv star-trek-tng

So many different actors in that original memo! I can't imagine TNG any other way.

Haha

Well, it looks like Chaos is determined to hate me now. Because I...didn't say anything?

Aw, don't worry. I'm sure he'll be back to his normal chaotic self in the morning.

4:24 AM

I don't like that he snapped at me, even though I didn't do anything. This time.

I've got to get to sleep! Internets always being so interesting. Arrgh.

G'night @aedia

@simchona Hehe. Sometimes when people are in a bad mood, there's no pleasing them!

Have a good afternoon/evening!

Have a good night

4:41 AM

Hurray, arguments.

No, not hooray

I know.

People seem to be a bit more on-edge here lately.

user19161

5:27 AM

@Manaಠдಠ Because they are not off the edge.

slow clap

On that note, to bed!

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ Goodnight A.

Bogdan Lataianu

i still don't understand the present perfect tense

user19161

@JSBᾶngs Mathematics is the greatest of all the arts then, though people like to consider it a science.

Bogdan Lataianu

hmm I consider Math a science

user19161

5:33 AM

@BogdanLataianu I mainly use it in the present to refer to something finished in the past when the time is not stated e.g. I have done this vs I did this yesterday.

user19161

@BogdanLataianu OK both views are fine e.g Cambridge gives a BA not a BS.

Bogdan Lataianu

btw welcome back Jasper

user19161

Hello @marco. Surprised to see you here today.

Bogdan Lataianu

notice I changed my avatar "in your memory"

user19161

@BogdanLataianu Yes, thank you. I am still alive.

user19161

5:38 AM

Your bounty on my question has given me many upvotes.

Bogdan Lataianu

@JasperLoy but this wouldn't explain why can't we use past in both case (with the occurrence time stated or not)

@JasperLoy there may be a 1K badge too

user19161

@BogdanLataianu I usually associate that to questions involving body parts or jokes.

Bogdan Lataianu

@JasperLoy the present perfect?

user19161

@BogdanLataianu No, the badge, you can hover over the post and see where it links to.

Bogdan Lataianu

still i dont understand, which post?

i may be slow tonight...

user19161

5:45 AM

@BogdanLataianu I mean that questions with many views are usually those that involve humour or sex. And that if you move your mouse over my reply, it will colour the post I am replying to.

Bogdan Lataianu

oh i understand now, that's useful

user19161

@BogdanLataianu Yes, many people don't know about this. And also you can even click on the left arrow to jump back to the post being replied. Of course the right arrow is for replying.

Bogdan Lataianu

that's right-I haven't notice the left arrow

but do you know you can see revisions of answers&questions?

you probably know

user19161

@BogdanLataianu Yes, the entire edit history.

user19161

@mana Why are you back?

5:51 AM

@JasperLoy You don't need to use just my first letter like it's some big secret or something. My name's Alex. It's right there in my profile description and everything else.

Also I was having a bit of trouble sleeping, so I decided to browse the sites for a bit.

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ I see you have corrected your writeup based on my advice.

My...writeup? scratches head

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ Counting sheep does not work.

@JasperLoy I don't really get what you're talking about.

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ Previously you said you were a university. What can I say? I am very deep...

5:55 AM

...? I haven't changed my profile paragraph in several months.

Heck, it says I'm still in Toronto. I'm not.

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ Oh sorry, I think I mixed up with another guy on gaming. See, deep.

no worries.

user19161

@Manaಠдಠ In Stanford?

No, I'm in Ottawa atm. I go back to Toronto next month.

fwoosh

Bogdan Lataianu

6:10 AM

@JasperLoy The article on wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_aspect explains better

the present perfect basically shows actions that happened recently

“I have written a novel” may have a different meaning from “I wrote a novel”; the novel might have been written in the recent past.[6] For this reason, it is not possible to write, “I have written a novel yesterday.”[7] The sentence “She has come” is likely to mean, “She is here now,” but “She came” does not.[2]

The use of the present perfect rather than the simple past tense can suggest other consequences. The sentence “I have written novels for five years” implies that the person is still writing novels whereas the sentence “I wrote novels for five years” implies that the person has s…

so you were right about using past when the time is stated

night'

7:12 AM

@Chaos: You misquoted in your profile. phrases.org.uk/meanings/74850.html

user19161

7:40 AM

@simchona At first thought not having heard this, "brevity is the soul of wit" means to me brevity is the substance of the intellect, while "brevity is the wit of soul" means to me brevity is the intellect of the spirit.

user19161

@Moshe Thanks for the link. You may also wish to try writers room.

@JasperLoy Interesting.

You missed...another horrid disagreement. I'm kind of glad you weren't there.

user19161

@simchona With Chaos? I saw the transcript but didn't go much into it.

@JasperLoy He called something aedia said stupid, and then brought up Nazis. He also was racist, and then snapped at me because I called him out on it.

user19161

@simchona OK maybe the stupid is just a joke.

7:54 AM

@JasperLoy I really don't think it was. He seemed really angry with JSB too

user19161

@simchona You must know that he is probably in high school or younger, so people that age talk like that. I said a lot of stupid things here and now everyone is laughing at me.

@JasperLoy Nobody is laughing at you, really. We were all worried about you.

@JasperLoy And no, he was honest to g-- angry. Wouldn't take any jokes, and snapped at me and aedia

user19161

@simchona I mean not the regulars here. Maybe others, but never mind.

@JasperLoy Others don't know you like the regulars do. The regulars were honestly worried; the others don't matter

user19161

@simchona I see. Hmm, I don't know about male hormones.

user19161

7:59 AM

@simchona True. Even though we tell ourselves it doesn't matter what others think of us, that is an ideal soul we all strive for but still fall far short of.

user19161

Well, perhaps the "fighting" between you and Chaos will lead to stronger bonds, heh.

user19161

Fighting makes the heart grow fonder.

1

Q: Word with 3 consecutive Ls

In a fun discussion, someone used the sentence "That guy is ballless" I can see a slang definition on urbandictionary but this led to a question - Are there words with 3 consecutive Ls in them? Preferably not scientific/technical words and not abbreviations.

single-word-requests

I said not constructive.

user19161

@simchona OK, but I don't think it exists either.

@JasperLoy 3I found one. Either way, it's not going to help anyone

user19161

8:04 AM

@simchona OK, I voted as well.

Cool. Now we see where this goes.

It is what, 4pm where you are?

morning everyone

user19161

@simchona That's right.

evening Jez

feel up to a morning close vote?

user19161

Afternoon.

8:06 AM

i dont think i have close privileges

Well. Now we've covered all periods of the day.

@Jez Ooo 700 away. So close

aedia just got hers today

user19161

Yes, it's the Europe, America, Asia time trilogy.

gotta love FL&U. one day into a relatively successful beta, and already the hardcore are talking about an all-French site

ah well, it was inevitable

@JasperLoy With our powers combined...

user19161

@simchona Go Captain Planet.

8:07 AM

Yay you got it!

user19161

He's the Hero, gonna take pollution down to zero.

user19161

Earth... Fire... Wind... Water... Heart!

user19161

lol

user19161

@Jez Not allowing questions in English you mean?

something close to that

8:09 AM

@Jez Well, it'd make sense--like EL&U but...in French

not really. a bunch of people committed on the basis of questions in en and in fr. some others committed for en/fr translation.

gilles is like, "yeah, well i say who gives a fuck what people committed on, let's change it all in beta"

Ah ><

user19161

Just that SE is an English-based site, so most users would be English speakers.

user19161

@sim I am surprised you know the cartoon. I thought you were not born yet.

Well, its current users are English speakers. It could help bring more people

@JasperLoy I think they played reruns then

user19161

8:11 AM

I remember things like Ultraman too, where the light on his head or chest will turn on at the final stage.

No idea what that is.

This is why I wanted to keep "questions allowed in English or French" in the proposal description. Robert said "don't worry, German and Japanese pretty much worked it out in beta with no problem". at the time i was thinking "you don't know French speakers very well". seems i was right.

user19161

@simchona en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman

It looks like ... Kikaida

user19161

Captain Planet and the Planeteers

Captain Planet and the Planeteers is an American animated environmentalist television program, based on an idea by Ted Turner. The show was produced by Andy Heyward, Robby London, Barbara Pyle and Nicholas Boxer. The series was developed and co-produced by Turner Program Services along with the partnership of DiC Entertainment and ran new episodes from September 15, 1990 until December 5, 1992. A sequel series, The New Adventures of Captain Planet, ran for three seasons and was produced by Turner Broadcasting and then-corporate sibling Hanna-Barbera Productions. Both programs continue t...

user19161

8:17 AM

@sim Perhaps the lll one was better closed as too localised, but nvm.

Thoughts on this?

-2

Q: Is it a flaw that you can still downvote with effect on the reputation when the question was closed already?

Yesterday I asked a question which was downvoted and subsequently closed - Fair enough: Difference between "classic", "classical" and "classy". What is not fair is to continue downvoting it, or better: to reduce reputation because of this downvoting. So am I to dele...

discussion feature-request down-votes reputation

user19161

@simchona I upvoted both question and answer to this.

@JasperLoy I disagree with him (so I dved). He seems to be rep grubbing a bit

@JasperLoy We can see what happens with that.

user19161

@simchona And I didn't know about quintilllion with three l's. It apparently is distinct from the one with 2 l's.

@JasperLoy That's interesting but...kind of not useful.

Unless you're at gunpoint, and the mob says "unless you give me a word with 3 L's in a row, you're going to die"

user19161

8:32 AM

@simchona Right. Anyway today in UK and US, billion and trillion would mean the same thing, but not many years ago.

11:36 AM

0

Q: What portions of the vernacular were derived directly from popular media?

Once in a great while I stumble across a strange fact about an English phrase or term that originated directly from film or print. For instance, "Be afraid. Be very afraid." - Originated from the movie The Fly (1986).1 The name "Wendy" was a rarely-used name until the Peter Pan character Wendy...

etymology history common-expressions language-evolution

great forum thread, but this is not a forum

12:08 PM

I think it should be a cW

@Jez I wouldn't worry about the all-French proposal, it won't come to that

the interface is not localized anyway

let Gilles create an alternate area51 proposal

12:34 PM

@z7sgѪ Voted to close.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:51 PM

Greetings!

Hello.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Rats, I forgot to stay in character.

Ahoy!

Where's Reg these days?

On feierabend, I believe.

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