English Language Learners

It's a really sad story, @Copper. And there's also the Saudi Arabia case of a woman who was raped, then sentenced to 200 lashes with a whip because she was in a car with a man, not her relative.

Damkerng T.

12:23 PM

Wait, 200 lashes to the woman?!

Jim Reynolds

Yes. I'm American, and moved here to Taiwan. I didn't know much about either country before I moved here. Now, I tell people in the US that I'm in Taiwan, and they often say, "Oh, so do you speak Thai?"

abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3899920

Yes. The men were punished. And so was she.

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds lol

@JimReynolds That's... um... hmm... I think I can't wrap my head around their reasoning.

Jim Reynolds

Well, the reasoning is that nice women are never alone with men, except husband, father, or brother. Or something close to that. And if they violate that expectation, they are breaking the law.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

How many lashes can a person bear? I wonder that sometimes.

Jim Reynolds

I don't know. The thought makes me feel sick.

Damkerng T.

12:27 PM

nods

Let's change the subject. I kinda envy you a bit that you're in Taiwan.

Jim Reynolds

Where are you?

Damkerng T.

I mean electronic parts must be very cheap there.

I'm in Bangkok.

Jim Reynolds

Haha. Hmm...

Damkerng T.

Always was, and very likely, always will. :-)

Jim Reynolds

Let me think. A notebook PC, basic, is about 35,000 New Taiwan Dollars.

Damkerng T.

12:29 PM

How much is that in USD?

Jim Reynolds

36050.02 Thai baht !!!!

O.O

I had no idea they are almost the same.

Damkerng T.

Oh, Google says it's 1114.082 USD!

That's not cheap!

Jim Reynolds

I think that was 20-30 years ago.

Then China was cheap.

Damkerng T.

I guess our "basic" notebooks are different!

Jim Reynolds

Now, that's changing, too.

Damkerng T.

12:31 PM

Oh?

Jim Reynolds

Thai notebook: 3dvalley.com/gallery/var/albums/Textures/Stock-Photos/objects/…

O.O

Damkerng T.

LOL-ROTF!

Jim Reynolds

Maybe cheap now is ... hmm. Vietnam? Burma ... Africa?

55555

Damkerng T.

Oh, Vietnam? Hmm... Probably.

Jim Reynolds

I would love to visit BKK someday. It is really terrible that I am so close now, and I have not seen much of Asia at all.

Damkerng T.

12:34 PM

BTW, I'm looking for a new video graphics card. I heard that GTX 960 is a new thing, but the price is very high around here.

@JimReynolds Nice! You're welcome here, definitely. I thin you will have a good time here.

@JimReynolds What made you think of Taiwan when you moved from the US?

Jim Reynolds

I met my boyfriend in New York in Grad school. He is Taiwanese.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's unexpected!

Wait, you're a guy, right?

Jim Reynolds

Yes. So ... ... YES. Surprise!

Damkerng T.

Ah, well, that's okay.

Jim Reynolds

Yeah. Well, it's my only choice, so. 5555 !

But I know it's surprising to people sometimes. :D

Damkerng T.

12:37 PM

Hey, I went to gay bars a few times with my friends.

Jim Reynolds

And you are a guy too?

Damkerng T.

I'm straight, though. But a lot of my friends are gay.

Jim Reynolds

Well, someone has to be straight. So that's ok, too. 55555555

Damkerng T.

(I was reluctant to say the word. I hope it's not offensive.)

@JimReynolds Oh, sure!

555

Jim Reynolds

Most of the time when people just talk honestly, it's not offensive. :D

Sometimes we are different, and it makes us think.

Damkerng T.

12:39 PM

I see. Thanks!

Jim Reynolds

Do you like gaming on computer?

Damkerng T.

I'm not really into gaming. I'm thinking about making a Hackintosh!

Sorry! Dropping a not is one of my typical mistakes!

From what I gathered, a good Hackintosh will need a good graphics card.

Jim Reynolds

Hackintosh! hahaha.

I never heard that before.

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's a PC running Mac OS X.

Jim Reynolds

Then what things do you do on computer that need good graphics?

Oh! I just thought of the answer. I see O.O

Damkerng T.

12:42 PM

I found out about it earlier this year, so I got curious.

Jim Reynolds

Video of naked girls.

Damkerng T.

lol

Well, swimsuits are good enough.

:P

The thing is iMac is rather pricey, so I think Hackintosh could save me some money.

And it sounds like fun.

Jim Reynolds

haha. Swimsuits are good. I think it's better to use our imaginations a little!

Damkerng T.

A very cheap iMac is about $1,099. (Just googled it.)

Jim Reynolds

Did you ever build a computer before?

Damkerng T.

12:47 PM

Yes. Actually, I did.

Wait, I wouldn't say I built them. I think I just assembled them.

@JimReynolds "Imagination is more important than knowledge," he said.

:P

Jim Reynolds

Well, I only know how to plug them in and turn them on.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Jim Reynolds

And break them.

Damkerng T.

Somehow I find it's hard to believe!

Jim Reynolds

Well, I can open one up and remove or change a hard drive, but not much more.

I'm better at English than computer hardward.

*ware

Damkerng T.

12:54 PM

@JimReynolds I think that's pretty much it. :-)

Jim Reynolds

Verbs like come and go are minefields for learners who speak certain languages - 2d ago by snailboat

Damkerng T.

You just add them to a motherboard, a PSU, and a case, and presto! You got a computer!

Jim Reynolds

That's true. Chinese speakers always come home, and never go home.

Hmm.. My "brother in law" sells PSUs

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Cool!

Jim Reynolds

But I think that brand is more expensive, and the thing about them is that the fans are super quiet.

Damkerng T.

12:57 PM

I think Intel 5th gen CPUs will make such a PSU even more in demand.

I did a few things this year to cut down my electricity bills, and replacing a few PSUs was one of the things I did.

A good PSU can save you 4-6W easily, when your computer is idle.

1

Q: is "mathematics" singular or plural?

I always say "mathematics is funny" (ok, maybe many of you disagree about the adjective), but then I noticed that "mathematics" seems to be a plural, like the Greek word from which it derives. Am I correct in using the verb in singular form? And are there other words like this one?

grammar

Heh! I didn't know that mathematics can be plural, too!

@JimReynolds Even come back home from their schools or offices?

Jim Reynolds

Yes. In Chinese the only word for going home is "come" home!

You cannot go home!

55555!

Damkerng T.

Oh!

That's a real surprise!

Jim Reynolds

Well, you mean, you always said mathematics is ... ?

Damkerng T.

Yes, I think I do.

Sometimes I will say mathematics branches are or mathematics operations are.

Jim Reynolds

I think "mathematics is" is always a mistake, but ... one of those mistakes people sometimes make. Especially Americans.

We are not so smart.

Oops... I mean the other way.

I better go do some work, or I won't be able to pay rent and then .. no home to come to or go to. :D

Damkerng T.

1:09 PM

@JimReynolds Oh, no! I hope that won't happen!

Jim Reynolds

No. We'll be ok. :D

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

About mathematics, I think the real problem is people rarely say mathematics. We just say math.

Jim Reynolds

Yes! That are the problem !!!

Damkerng T.

Right now, I wonder if I'm going to buy a product of your brother in law. ;-)

Jim Reynolds

O.O

Damkerng T.

1:13 PM

I'm going to buy a new PSU for my Hackintosh.

Jim Reynolds

It's the brand: Be Quiet

Damkerng T.

(Which I guess it would be cheaper to buy in Taiwan as well.)

Oh, Be Quiet is the brand?

Then, probably not this one.

Jim Reynolds

When we went home .. I mean GO .. uh, goed home .. for Chinese New Year, there were about seven of them in our room.

Damkerng T.

lol

Jim Reynolds

I wonder if these things are really cheaper here. Or you are dreaming.

Taiwanese companies don't make those kind of things anymore!

They design them, and then they are made in countries with cheaper labo.

Damkerng T.

1:15 PM

I'm not sure, but wouldn't it be cheaper to buy things made in Taiwan in Taiwan?

Jim Reynolds

labor.

designed in Taiwan.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see.

Jim Reynolds

numbeo.com/cost-of-living/…

Hmm.. that's interesting. I have no idea if it's accurate.

Damkerng T.

Looks about right to me.

Heh! McDonalds is cheaper there!

"A few is a positive term that indicates a small number. When we use it we are asserting the positive existence of a small number of something." So how do you interpret "There's no such thing as a few cockroaches."? — WhatRoughBeast 59 mins ago

That's interesting.

Jim Reynolds

2:04 PM

It means if there is one cockroach, there are 10,000 cockroaches.

Never just a few.

Man_From_India

3:37 PM

@Adam Thanks Adam. I think I got why I should use perfect tense but I could not understand why I have to use 'being' instead of 'be'. Does it have to do with the context because the situation 'being dependent' has been lasting for a long time but is it a grammar rule? Should I ask this in another question? — Murat 14 mins ago

The concerned sentence is written by OP

> I think you got used to be dependent on your parents, you don't want to move on.

And Adam thinks there has to be a perfect tense and also being, instead of be. This is what he commented.

@Man_From_India Your improvement still doesn't quite work. He needs "I think you have gotten used to being dependent on your parents. You don't want to move on." OR "I think you have gotten used to depending on your parents. You don't want to move on." Depending on and being dependent on both suggest financial support, though. That doesn't rule out the meaning that you are after, but it isn't the first thing that comes to mind. I can't think of a one word solution for you - perhaps someone else will. — Adam 23 mins ago

My question is why it has to be being, and not be. I thought both were possible there.

Jim Reynolds

You mean why used to being vs used to be ?

Man_From_India

yes

to be precise got used to be vs got used to being

though I know that in get used to, the used to is not used like a modal verb. It's being used as an adjective.

I already know this

But why not the be?

Jim Reynolds

4:07 PM

ok. I'm reading that.

Do you know that used to be has a different meaning as a phrasal verb?

@Man Usage Note: The verb use is used in the past tense with an infinitive to indicate a past condition or habitual practice: We used to live in that house.

Because the -d in used has merged with the t of to and is not pronounced in these constructions, people sometimes mistakenly leave it out when writing. Thus it is incorrect to write We use to play tennis. When do occurs with this form of use in negative statements and in questions, the situation is reversed, and use to (not used to) is correct: You did not use to play on that team. Didn't she use to work for your company?

used to + infinitive means "a past condition or habitual practice"

so "used to be" has this meaning.

I used to be afraid of ghosts. But now I don't worry about such things.

Damkerng T.

4:32 PM

This used to is another trap for non-native speakers.

It helps, I think, to remember "I'm used to something."

I'm not sure if the present perfect is mandatory in this one (as Adam suggests): "I think you have gotten used to being dependent on your parents. You don't want to move on." OR "I think you have gotten used to depending on your parents. You don't want to move on."

The answer is not very good, imo.

(Agree with TJY's comment.)

Good evening, @Man_From_India!

Man_From_India

Good evening @DamkerngT.

though i guess it's almost midnight there in ur place

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Man_From_India

But interestingly I have found some, though very little compared to got used to + being, instances of got used to be + adjective

google.co.in/…

Damkerng T.

Without got, it would be fine.

Also, this is not an error:

> While the default choice for what phone employees got used to be an iPhone, ...

Because it's [the default choice for what phone employees got].

Man_From_India

Ah that's a different construction. Yes u are right.

But this one from The Sydney Morning Herald -

> When I was three I didn't play with other kids very much, I was kind of isolated. I got used to be being bullied and having to think my way out of situations, in the same way that other kids would fight their way out.

Damkerng T.

4:43 PM

The best I can tell is it's an error.

MARamezani

Hi!

Man_From_India

just click on the google page...you will find similar things.

Here u go

google.co.in/…

Hi @MARamezani

Damkerng T.

Oh, "Buffy Sainte-Marie is a Native American folk singer ..."

Her first language is probably not English.

MARamezani

I already clicked it.

Man_From_India

And this from google book -

google.co.in/…

though google ngram has no hit for got used to be

Damkerng T.

4:47 PM

Maybe this one is tricky even for native speakers!

MARamezani

Hmm, yet the results are too low for the phrase to be of idiomatic usage. (If not ungrammatical)

Damkerng T.

Of the 36 results on Google Books, I think about half of them were from native speakers.

Man_From_India

But British Council website does say get used to + verb-ing and Cambridge usage also say the same thing.

Damkerng T.

So, of the entire Google Books results, less than 20 native speakers wrote that.

Hmm... I should get used to saying "fewer than" instead...

Man_From_India

Very very few compared to get used to + verb-ing, but still can't treat it as incorrect.

MARamezani

4:50 PM

TREAT IT AS INCORRECT!

Man_From_India

I am such a non-native speaker who doesn't believe those that are not found in Google or any corpus have to have incorrect. Unfortunately :-(

And here there are at least a few instances of what's apparently not recommended in usage/grammar books :-)

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India If it helps, I think you don't have to judge them. Just avoid using it yourself. ;-)

Man_From_India

:-)

MARamezani

Some of the Google books used the phrase in another structure of what we discuss about.

Man_From_India

That is the last resort :-)

MARamezani

4:55 PM

Humour, humor etc. I don't feel like having them right now!

Hello @snailboat!

Anonymous

got used to be X looks like a mistake to me

Man_From_India

I was just looking for a native help. So thought of Snails...and here is @snailboat :-) nice to see u :-)

MARamezani

@Man_From_India You just summoned her!

Man_From_India

Ancient Indian telepathy :-)

Anonymous

Hello! :-)

MARamezani

4:59 PM

google.co.in/…

Weird results!

Man_From_India

Almost communicated half the globe without paying a penny :-) if everyone had this sort of power how telecom companies would have reacted :-D lol

Anonymous

Mathematics is, though, is not a mistake

MARamezani

@snailboat I also think "conditions is" is correct, in especial cases.

Anonymous

You'd need to give me an example for me to agree with that one

MARamezani

Hmm, let's see.

Anonymous

5:03 PM

By the way, especial is used mainly by non-native speakers. Native speakers generally say special instead

MARamezani

So it's not a dialect contradiction (I mean, different spelling in different regions) or something like that?

Anonymous

No

MARamezani

Thanks, and for the "conditions" sentence

Anonymous

Especial is more or less archaic. People say especially all the time, though

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hello!

Anonymous

5:06 PM

Hello! :-)

MARamezani

> The frigid conditions of the north pole was too hard for the explorers to bear.

Heh.

I didn't find for is.

Maybe my mind is too tired.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Perhaps except for ♪ Especially for you ♪. :-)

Anonymous

Looks like an error, in this case probably proximal agreement

Damkerng T.

I wish I could type musical notes!

MARamezani

You wish! :)

Anonymous

5:08 PM

Type onpu with Japanese input

Anonymous

♪

Damkerng T.

Oh, sweet yesterday!

MARamezani

Tell me about it.

No really.

Tell me.

Damkerng T.

The song reminds me of sweet yesterday :-)

MARamezani

Oh.

I thought there was something about yesterday.

Damkerng T.

5:14 PM

Hehe! Sorry for the confusion.

But songs like Especially for You and Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now bring back such good memories.

Back then, I had no idea what they sang in the songs, except for that it gotta be something nice! :-)

Man_From_India

Well, there is some good info on that get/be used to

Generally it's correct to sue get/be used to + verb-ing But it's not incorrect to write get/be used to + verb-infinitive. But the later use is obsolete.

@snailboat u can see OED definition 1.b

I know it's hard to read. But if u can open it in a new tab, it's a bit better. I am using my laptop.

Damkerng T.

Interesting.

Man_From_India

:-D

MARamezani

5:31 PM

Dang. You still have access?

Welcome to ELL! I think it's really good if you do some expansion to your answer. I'm sometimes a bit overreactive on short answers I agree, but this might leave OP in confusion, rather than solve their problem. — MARamezani 55 mins ago

Am I overreactive?

Damkerng T.

I think not.

Man_From_India

No @MARamezani I lost it :-(

I have a soft copy though :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India If it's obsolete, it's not part of the English we speak today, so it's probably an error …

Man_From_India

Obsolete does mean that it's not used in today's English. true. But it's an error :-O even some Charles Dickens language is not used these days. But are they considered an error? :-O I have no idea, just asking.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Depends. Give me an example

Anonymous

5:35 PM

Things become grammatical over time, and things become ungrammatical over time

Man_From_India

For example hmmm

wait

oh this one

a phrase I can remember a bet of air

MARamezani

@snailboat That's the truest thing about a language.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India That doesn't look ungrammatical, but I don't know what it means

Man_From_India

I can't remember the full sentence, but that phrase was used to mean that some horses were not allowed to eat anything. Or something like that.

Probably in the story - A Tale of Two Cities. I might be wrong. Can't remember the story name.

Anonymous

If you can find the actual sentence I could try to comment

Man_From_India

5:38 PM

let me google

Anonymous

In the extreme case, consider Old English

Anonymous

It's difficult to find an Old English sentence that would be considered a "correct" sentence of Modern English

MARamezani

Only two pages?

google.com/…

Anonymous

Several of those results are nonsense put together by spambots

Anonymous

The patent office one is an OCR error

MARamezani

5:42 PM

Even that!

Man_From_India

it's Oliver Twist

Here you go

books.google.co.in/…

Sorry for wrong spelling...it should be bait of air

MARamezani

>O. Nah. Just kidding.

But you gotta admit, pulling legs is a really fun job!

Anonymous

Aww, sad

Anonymous

Bait of air there is perfectly understandable, I think, and definitely not ungrammatical

Anonymous

The only question is what bait means there, but that should be clear from context

Man_From_India

5:45 PM

yes

Anonymous

Bait isn't usually used with that meaning anymore, as far as I know

Anonymous

So it's not an example of English spoken today, it's true

Anonymous

It's not a mistake, of course, because it wasn't intended to be English as spoken in 2015

Man_From_India

correct. but we can't say it's an error. but it's true that this old use of bait is not similar to our get used to construction.

Anonymous

Well, the latter is a matter of grammar

Man_From_India

5:47 PM

Here the total construction differs

yes

MARamezani

I'm lost. I've opened 15 tabs in Chrome....

Anonymous

It's true that words, or senses of words, fall in and out of use

Anonymous

When something is marked archaic or obsolete, it may be a clear choice, but it may also be a bit of a judgment call

Anonymous

There isn't often a clear boundary for when something began to be used, or began to no longer be used

Anonymous

(Sometimes there is!)

Anonymous

5:49 PM

@MARamezani Oh, you should take lessons from our Damkerng!

Anonymous

He's the man with a thousand tabs.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Try 150! :-)

Anonymous

See? Lesson one: Have ten times as many tabs!

Damkerng T.

I think I have ~1200 tabs right now.

MARamezani

Alright. When do I start?

Damkerng T.

5:50 PM

You can start whenever you want!

Man_From_India

When did u actually start ur computer? :-O

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Was the question for me?

MARamezani

45 tabs for now. I'm a beginner!

Damkerng T.

Yay!

MARamezani

Hey, I'm reading all of those 15, though.

Man_From_India

5:51 PM

yes :-) so that u got the time to open all those tabs :-D

MARamezani

I'm challenged with two questions back at chemistry.

Damkerng T.

Oh, actually close to 1500 tabs is what I currently have, I think.

I forgot that I have two instances of Firefox running side-by-side.

Man_From_India

Is ur profile picture ur selfie? @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

lol

MARamezani

No, it's not a selfie.

Damkerng T.

5:54 PM

That picture is ASIMO by Honda.

MARamezani

His two hands point to his face.

Selfies are your artwork.

Damkerng T.

It's saying "Hello".

MARamezani

I think those androids that were dreaming of electric sheep took the picture.

Damkerng T.

:D

Man_From_India

Ohh I have to go...if I don't respond to the phone call, my friend will kill me :-)

good night all

btw @DamkerngT. when do u actually go to sleep?

MARamezani

5:56 PM

Oh. Indians. :)

@Man_From_India Robots don't sleep.

Man_From_India

Yes it's 11:30 here

at least for recharge?

MARamezani

Damkerng is solar powered.

Am I not right?

Anonymous

@MARamezani I bet some robots have a sleep mode to conserve power! :-)

Man_From_India

it's night Ramazan...

ok bye

MARamezani

@snailboat Damkerng is too advanced for that.

I bet.

@Man_From_India Bye!

Damkerng T.

5:59 PM

@Man_From_India I think I will go to bed at around 4 a.m. today.

Man_From_India

just remembered, didn't see haana for last few days.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Good night!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. :O

Man_From_India

good night

Damkerng T.

Yes, almost a week already, I think.

MARamezani

5:59 PM

So you do sleep?

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Of course!

MARamezani

Guys I remember Haana said she was depressed.

Damkerng T.

Oh, really? When was that?

MARamezani

She had run into some trouble in personal life.

Don't remember.

It was when she didn't let me get an alone.

Damkerng T.

Heh!

MARamezani

6:01 PM

I have five already.

I'm a good rival of Freddy.

How come ELL doesn't get one of these?

19

A: Dipole moment of cis-2-butene

Mini Research Project Time Updates Added CCSD(T) $n_i$ and dipole moments and tweaked discussion (the delay was caused by a system-wide storage upgrade on the machines which took nearly a week to complete). Preamble This response is in no way meant to be contrary to what Geoff has already p...

Well, sometimes it does.

But it's not frequent.

Even about this one the question is a low quality homework drop-off. But Martin provided an answer, that's an answer.

11

A: What is the molecular geometry of NHF₂?

You can look up the molecule on chemspider, where you have a little applet for the 3D structure. Or you can download a coordinate file from NIST and view it in a molecular viewer, like Avogadro. Or keep on reading for some deeper insight. As Klaus already pointed out, if VSEPR is a valid concept...

MARamezani

6:42 PM

Infinitesimal Hello!

I realized you left chemistry.

Transcript for