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user54412
5:00 PM
@ACuriousMind what about (g)zip-ing the pdf?
 
can you zip a rar
and then rar the zip
etc.
 
user54412
umm, information theory doesn't work that way...
 
how does it work
 
Well, you can, but it'll increase the file size at some point
 
user54412
note that lossless compression necessarily increases some file sizes
 
5:02 PM
what does that mean
 
@ChrisWhite 35 MB .gz file, 22MB .7z file
DVJU still beats them by more than half
 
@0celo7 You need to find a book on how computers and/or software works
They are not black boxes
 
Mine actually is a black box
 
mine is a piece of aluminum
 
@Jimself Really? Doesn't everyone use laptops these days?
 
user54412
5:04 PM
@0celo7 Take a 100-bit file. Say your compression algorithm makes it 20 bits. But there aren't enough 20-bit strings to encode all possible 100-bit strings. Keep applying pigeon hole to see that if some files get smaller, some must get bigger with the same algorithm.
 
@JohnRennie Jim = pc gamer
 
I suppose a laptop can still be a black box, no?
 
@ChrisWhite I see
 
@0celo7 lossless compression is something like GZIP or RAR or so on which allows you to exactly recover the original data (as opposed to the compression in MP3 files, which discards some of the original information). No lossless compression algorithm can reduce the size of every possible file, for the reason @Chris explained.
 
user54412
And after using a good compression utility once, you'll probably have just structureless noise, at least as far as any other compression utility is concerned, so there's nothing to be gained.
 
5:05 PM
@Jimself ah, fair enough. I forget there are people willing to waste their time pursuing strange perversions.
 
yup
 
@JohnRennie I game on my laptop
 
@0celo7 What GPU?
 
@JohnRennie (severely) underclocked AMD R9 370X
 
OK, I'm out (busy day)... see y'all later. Checking in from Berkeley in two weeks if nothing else.
 
5:06 PM
bye
 
See ya
 
@0celo7 In a laptop? What make?
 
@JohnRennie retina Mac Book Pro mid 2015
I wish I had the balls to overclock the GPU to see what would happen
I'd probably melt everything
 
Huy
@0celo7: MacBooks aren't laptops, they're notebooks.
 
I'd have thought you could put together a much faster gaming PC for a fraction of the price of an MBP ...
 
5:09 PM
You can
 
Huy
@JohnRennie: You can.
 
@JohnRennie we (this chat) have been over this
@Huy what's the difference
 
Oh no! We're about to start talking about gaming. Again! John Duffield, come back all is forgiven!
 
Huy
@0celo7: A laptop can comfortably be put on your lap. The MacBooks tend to get too hot to be on a lap.
 
@Huy I've never had that problem.
I don't know why people say they get hot.
(I'm on my third generation of MacBook.)
 
5:11 PM
I can feel my macbook through the bottom of the table right now, that's how hot it is
 
ThinkPad T series > Macbook Pro
 
::lifts laptop off of lap::
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Not since Lenovo.
 
Not hot.
 
@Huy Even since Lenovo
 
5:11 PM
I use Dell Latitudes myself
 
@0celo7 it's the macbook pro that overheats. What do you have?
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: No. Just no. Even IBM is switching to MacBooks slowly but definitely.
 
user54412
@JohnRennie I thought this too. But then it's so easy to buy a better graphics card here, some new RAM there. And next thing you know you've spent more for only the most marginal gains.
 
@Jimself retina MacBook pro.
 
user54412
(speaking from experience here)
 
5:12 PM
@ChrisWhite That's why I only upgrade components when I can't run games with the old ones
 
I'm giving Apple about 5 more years before it shuts down
 
How many years have you been saying that?
 
First time
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Not sure if serious or just ...
 
no, they have too much revenue base currently. It took longer than that to kill off blockbuster and apple will stay more relevant
 
5:14 PM
The richest company in the world can shut down in 5 years?
 
Huy
Why would you even want to kill them off.
 
I love my iPhone.
 
@0celo7 google might buy them
 
@Jimself Google can buy Apple?
 
I'm pretty serious. 5 years might be short in our scale, but that's a long time in business
 
Huy
5:15 PM
Did you mean Alphabet?
 
in 5 years maybe
 
I'm not saying I want the company dead
 
@KyleKanos Why will Apple be dead in 5 years?
 
Just that Cook is not Jobs
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: No. Just no. Let's bet, I say they won't be dead in 50 years.
 
5:15 PM
Is there any reputable data that shows this?
 
eventually, google will buy England
 
@KyleKanos True, but that does not spell the company's death.
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: I'd be willing to make a binding bet. Whoever is closer. For 10'000 USD.
 
Anyhow, I'm off to finish Kazuo Ishiguro's latest book. I like science fiction, which is why I read the answers on this site of course.
 
@Jimself second this.
 
5:16 PM
In 50 years that amount is likely to be insignificant.
 
@JohnRennie Happy reading!
 
@JohnRennie ooh the buried giant?
 
in 50 years one of us is likely to be dead
 
Huy
@0celo7: You only have to wait 30 years.
 
@Huy I don't gamble more than $1
 
5:17 PM
@NeuroFuzzy Yes. Very enjoyable too!
 
@Huy The low estimates are around 20 years before our financial system implodes.
 
Booker prize winning authors can be hard work, but Ishiguro isn't.
 
Huy
@0celo7: Obviously those estimates weren't made my me.
 
@Jimself :(
true
You might die in a snow storm
@ACuriousMind I am appreciating Weinberg 100% more the second time around.
 
@0celo7 a snow storm kill a Canadian? Yeah right! It'd probably the hockey brawl during the snow storm that kills me
 
5:19 PM
@0celo7 Not high praise if you didn't appreciate him at all the first time ;)
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Also the "Cook is not Jobs" line is so bad. Data shows that Apple is still growing with positive acceleration, financially.
 
Yes, stock generally increases with excitement
Then it plummets when crap products are released
 
@ACuriousMind Meh, arithmetic.
 
Think about what Cook's been cooking up the last few months
 
Huy
It's not like all of their assets are stocks?
 
5:21 PM
(pun intended)
 
obe
@0celo7 QTF?
 
@obe Yes.
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Oh, right, the iPhone 6, huge bummer, right?
 
obe
What about the QM book?
Is it good to read after the one I finish?
 
@Huy No, the Apple Watch
 
5:21 PM
@obe I'll take a look at that. I have no experience with it.
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Oh, right, a Smart Watch which sold more pieces in one day than all Android Smart Watches in the previous year together.
 
has anyone here tried playing "From the Morning" by Nick Drake, by any chance?
 
Like most Apple products, it built up momentum for day-one sales
 
never heard of him
 
0
Q: Theoretical explanations of ghost

Debraj MidyaWould you anyone please explain the paranormal activities by physics. We want to make a wall magazine on that subject. Please help us with new ideas. We want its definition, and characters.

go
 
Huy
5:24 PM
@KyleKanos: And what's bad about that?
 
@Jimself I thought it was going to be about ghost fields in QFT
was quite surprised haha
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Sales are sales. They still sold more smartwatches on the first day than all Android competitors combined in a whole year.
 
@FenderLesPaul looks hipster
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: I don't know what you expected but that was pretty impressive to me. And no, I don't have one and don't intend to buy one.
 
5:25 PM
@Jimself I don't think he'll appreciate my cohomological explanation of ghosts :/
 
@Huy Longevity is key to a successful business. Building up for one-day sales is a recipe for disaster
 
@0celo7 :(
 
@ACuriousMind tell him to read QoGS
 
now hold on, @KyleKanos, we very well could approach that question as a way to explain why physics would necessitate that the commonly held idea of ghosts can't exist
 
@0celo7 I'm not a troll :P
 
5:26 PM
that wouldn't be off-topic so much
 
@ACuriousMind I am. See my comment.
 
@0celo7 I know :)
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: So you're saying it's better to sell 2000 pieces a day than selling 1 million pieces on the first day and probably less afterwards?
 
@Jimself Sure. Then any question about things that are blatantly off topic can be kept open because we could always explain why physics would necessitate the commonly held notion of [blatantly off-topic thing] can't exist
@Huy Uh, yes. Absolutely
 
Huy
Ok.
 
5:28 PM
@KyleKanos true, but ghosts might be worth it, given how many people mistakenly believe they exist
then perhaps those ghost hunter shows on tv would stop
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: The Apple Watch took a market share of ~75%, and Samsung dropped from 73.6% down to 7%. Surely it's been a disaster.
 
Its sales plunged ninety percent in 3 months
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Only because smartwatches don't sell as good as say iPhones, it doesn't mean Apple isn't making a lot of money off them. And a lot more than any other competitor.
@KyleKanos: Well guess what, most people only need one of them. It still makes the sales overall a LOT better than any other competitor. I really can't follow your logic (honestly I'm trying).
 
blackberry is still around. It's been more than 5 years
apple won't be gone in 5 years
 
@Huy The quantity required is irrelevant. The steady stream of income is what is important
 
5:31 PM
Well, I have seen people doing research on supernatural topic hold a professors.
the end of the world is coming.
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: And you're saying because Apple Watches don't sell as steadily as say iPhones or MacBooks, Apple is doomed?
 
@Huy When did I say that?
Show me in the transcript, please
 
he inferred it
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: Your estimate just before that in 5 years it won't be around anymore.
 
@ACuriousMind On page 71, near the bottom, do you know how to calculate $UAU^{-1}$, $UBU^{-1}$? I don't know how to apply (2.5.31) :/
 
5:32 PM
Yes, and I explained precisely why when I said that Cook isn't Jobs
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: That's a tautology, and a rather boring one to be honest.
 
No, that is not a tautology
 
^ that
 
Huy
@KyleKanos: I think physics is doomed, because, let's face it, nobody here is Einstein.
 
@Huy Fortunately physics isn't a business
 
Huy
5:34 PM
@KyleKanos: Really? Then why do you need money to learn, teach and do it?
 
And we've had plenty of smart guys since Einstein (just like we had plenty of smart guys before Einstein too)
 
@Huy Einstein wasn't even Einstein
 
@Huy 0celo7's cat is
 
@Huy ::looks at cat::
 
@Huy Not a tautology, just a false conditional statement
 
5:34 PM
Einstein is looking at birds right now.
 
@Huy To live? Do you have any understanding of business at all?
And the difference between business and people?
 
@KyleKanos name forty
 
Huy
@Jimself: "Cook isn't Jobs" is a tautology.
 
@Jimself Feynman.
 
@Huy no, "Cook is Cook" is a tautology. "Cook isn't Jobs" is just a true statement
 
Huy
5:35 PM
@KyleKanos: I think I do have understanding of business, and I can see for example in the US most universities - places where it should be all about learning and teaching - run like businesses.
 
@Huy No it isn't. Tautology is defined as the saying of the same thing twice in different words, generally considered to be a fault of style (e.g., they arrived one after the other in succession )
Saying Cook isn't Jobs is, by definition, not a tautology
 
@Jimself do a scientific explanation for why no ghosts lie in all the experiments claim positive result are not repeatable?
 
in logic, a tautology is a necessarily true statement that amounts to A=A. Or if A then A
 
I'm giving A not B
 
@ACuriousMind oooh, do you write eg. $\alpha A=U(W(0,\alpha,0))-1$ and then rotate that?
 
Huy
5:37 PM
Be as it may, it doesn't make your argument as to why Apple will be gone in 5 years any compelling.
 
@0celo7 Have you determined the $\alpha, \beta$ for $A$ and $B$?
 
@Shing I don't know what you are asking
 
But I'm not comfortable with this part in Weinberg, I think, he's doing group theory without doing group theory, and therefore mine and @Danu's greatest enemy!
 
@Huy do you have shares in Apple :P
 
@Jimself since we can't prove ghost doesn't exist. then how can we scientifically explain to ,say, kids, that there is no ghost?
 
Huy
5:38 PM
@skillpatrol: I wish.
 
group theory without group theory?
 
Huy
@skillpatrol: If I was already done with my studies, I'd invest all of my money.
 
@ACuriousMind I think I have to use (2.5.31) on the level of Hilbert space operators, set $\beta=0$, then expand.
 
@Shing ghosts, as we imagine them, are unphysical. They violate physical laws and we can prove they don't exist as a consequence
 
That looks right and I'll confirm by hand later because I don't want to skip details.
@Jimself they violate known physical laws so violating them does not prove their nonexistence
 
5:41 PM
@Jimself that might work on kids, but some trolls will then ask, "how do you know then ghost are not counter examples to show that physics laws do NOT hold for everything?"
personally, I don't believe it at all
but evil walk the land, I have seen some professors even work on these kind of supernatural things and get paid + funding.
 
@ACuriousMind group theory without group theory? does Weigand do this using group theory with group theory?
 
@Shing Assertions that are made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Someone making an existence claim needs to supply evidence, not the one doubting the existence claim.
 
they violate the laws of thermodynamics. That's a game over for any theory in physics and, therefore, is a pretty solid game over for ghosts
 
they do? I've never thought about it
 
add to that the lack of observational records of them
we might as well argue that unicorns and magic exists
and that thunder is angels bowling
 
5:44 PM
@0celo7 Sadly, Weigand doesn't do this either, but with "group theory without group theory" I mean that they muck about with indices and special structures without explaining how what they're doing is just a very special case of representation theroetic techniques. It's all so much clearer once one knows the general Lie algebraic techniques, in my opinions.
 
@Jimself No, it's Thor's Chariot
 
@ACuriousMind any links?
 
that's good ways to responds, thanks guys.
 
@0celo7 [my group theory course](not-yet-existent notes because I am incredibly lazy)
 
:(
I don't want to add more books to the list
 
5:45 PM
the worst part is one of my old friends firmly believes in ghosts. They are in STEM and no matter how hard I try they still believe in ghosts
and that the moon landing was fake
 
Must have been an impressive punch:
@Jimself That's unacceptable
 
@KyleKanos they're a space engineer too
 
lol
 
They should be fired
 
"the crowning achievement of my field is a lie"
 
5:47 PM
I don't care what they do
 
vzn
@Jimself aka/ how about solitons? does anyone believe in solitons? :D
 
I have tried to talk to my friends believing in ghost that science require repeatable experiments on claims, but any experiments on ghost with positive result are not repeatable.
 
@0celo7 yeah, it's embarrasing to me too
 
but they are not convinced, only could not find a way to disagree.
 
That's as bad as me going to ORNL and telling the neutron beam people their Feynman diagrams are wrong
 
5:48 PM
@vzn yes, people do
 
vzn
fyi re "spirits" all there are some weird experiments where bodies were attempted to be weighed accurately exactly pre/post death & one researcher reported changes. have some funky book on it somewhere.
 
yeah, we've heard that. The soul weighs 2 ounces or something.
 
One funny way to tell them: "Why care about ghost? If there is ghost, and they kill you, you will become a ghost, and you can fight back."
 
@Shing Hooray! It got re-opened :-)
 
vzn
@Jimself ah, found it. via amazing google fu skillz. but ofc nobody here wants to know the details. :|
 
5:53 PM
@skillpatrol thanks, i made the last one chick on "reopen" as I thought that actually why energy conservated can be answered by symmetry, then asking why symmetry can be a physics question.
 
now all we need is an answer :(
 
@vzn The experiment interpretations don't make sense. They measure a mass difference and instead of asking "where did the mass go?" or "Was it gas?" they say "Aha! The soul must have just left"
 
vzn
@Jimself & do you have any familiarity with the so-called "research"?
 
@vzn a passing familiarity
enough to know not to take it seriously
 
vzn
@Jimself have only heard of 1 such researcher. am browsing his wikipedia entry right now. managed to find him via a chapter in a relatively recent book.
 
5:57 PM
duncan macdougall?
 
vzn
yes. there is some on him in chap 8 of book "stiff". havent read the book yet, its lying around.
 
I found him by typing "weight of soul" into google. Was first hit
 
vzn
> The physicist Robert L. Park has written MacDougall's experiments "are not regarded today as having any scientific merit" and the psychologist Bruce Hood wrote that "because the weight loss was not reliable or replicable, his findings were unscientific."[4][5] [wikipedia]
"not replicable." but my question is, did anyone actually try to replicate it? who said it was "not reliable"? was that based on MacDougalls own data [which is dismissed] or someone elses?
 
lol it also says he ignored and didn't report 5 of the 6 tests he performed
all of which didn't support the soul having a weight
 
vzn
@Jimself right, and critics complain of "selective reporting". but if they say his own data is unreliable, then arent they selecting some of it, ie exactly the part that disagrees with their own (preconceived) hypothesis?
 
6:02 PM
@vzn no, I don't think so
 
vzn
@Jimself lol it was a rhetorical question, pretty much presumed your answer. (with my advanced psychic abilities) :P
 
psychics have a valuable place in society
 
vzn
@Jimself ?!? not anywhere in "mainstream physics" lol
 
just like movie theaters, zoos, golf courses
etc
 
Hey hey hey....let's not be putting golf courses on the same level as movie theaters. That's rather disrespectful to the Hollywood industry
 
6:07 PM
@KyleKanos I put movie theaters first in the list. what more do you want?
 
vzn
@KyleKanos ofc tiger woods deserves respect :P
 
I don't get the joke of movie theaters, zoo, psychics, could someone explain that to me?
 
I don't doubt that it takes time to practice to become good at golf, it's just a terribly boring event
@Shing They're forms of entertainment
 
vzn
@KyleKanos but not nec the "players" :P
 
@KyleKanos !! get it now lol
 
6:09 PM
@vzn I don't typically pay attention to the personal lives of athletes
 
vzn
@Jimself anyway do you apparently have some affinity for the quote? was it by einstein probably? have never heard it before...
@KyleKanos so then no wonder youre bored :P
 
nm
I'm bored watching golf because nothing actually happens and the commentators are dull
So I typically don't watch it
 
vzn
@KyleKanos hey what about miniature golf then? perfect summer activity. was just by a great course last sun. it had a squirting/ exploding/ flaming god-head. boring? think not!
 
@vzn is minigolf ever broadcast on TV? That might be way more interesting
 
6:13 PM
@vzn no, it's just that when written, we were not yet quite into QFT and we were explaining things mostly with QM and in particle nature. Later on, QFT took over and showed that everything is fields. Einstein was right even as he was arguing for us to stick to old ways of thinking
 
vzn
@KyleKanos hey now that could be fun. was just thinking, how about a show that visits top miniature golf courses in the country/ world? & has commentators? :)
@Jimself QFT says particles can be thought of as "high density" fields? missed that somehow
 
obe
@0celo7 What is a ray space?
 
Well you still have the problem that golf is an act and not really a competitive sport
 
vzn
@KyleKanos "not competitive" lol!
 
@vzn hello!
 
6:15 PM
@vzn Well it is a competition, you are trying to get the lowest score
But you're not really competing in the more common sense of other sports (e.g., baseball, football, basketball, cricket, etc)
There's no direct one-on-one act in golf
 
vzn
@KyleKanos maybe you like more bash-and-crash sports. lots of ppl complain about bowling as a sport. etc. ... a wide difference in opinions on what constitutes sports. eg some of my favorites, robot soccer, or robot battles :)
 
Bowling is boring for similar reasons, but more entertaining than golf
 
@obe not sure, what's the context
 
vzn
@KyleKanos so its the KK sports boring-o-meter quantified. maybe a 1-10 scale.
 
@vzn remember me?
 
vzn
6:17 PM
@TanMath ::cringe:: yes whats up crazy dude :P
 
@vzn QFT says particles are just parts of the field. It's closer to modern ideology than the contemporary ways of thinking
 
obe
@0celo7 @ACuriousMind Huh?
 
@vzn lol, how is your toy models stuff going?
 
@vzn I'd put sports that are indrect competitions (golf, bowling, billiards) on the lower end (1-4 range) while sports with direct competition (baseball, basketball, etc) on the higher end (6-10)
 
vzn
@TanMath thx for contd interest! let me put it this way, its not totally dead yet :D
hear that you are making contd strides in QM :)
 
6:20 PM
@obe that's not commonly said
 
vzn
@KyleKanos ah. now the gray areas. billiards involves ("directly"?) whacking others balls.
 
obe
@0celo7 Then should I ignore it?
 
And I would probably put billiards towards the 4 because if you can't make your shot, you can screw up the angles for the next person
 
@obe well the common statement is that states are rays in hilbert space
I guess he's taking equivalence classes $\psi\sim\lambda\psi,|\lambda|=1$ and calling it a ray space
 
@obe The standard name for that is projective Hilbert space
 
obe
6:21 PM
@ACuriousMind I found out a few mins ago.
 
vzn
@KyleKanos actually am just playing devils advocate with you. have probably been known to joke about golf as utterly boring also. however, did once play 3 generations of my family in the same game. memorable to say the least.
 
@ACuriousMind makes sense, real and complex projective spaces considered
 
@vzn It's testing my consistency
 
@vzn haha, yeah i guess...I am still working on the photosynthesis project...
 
vzn
@TanMath & very worthwhile! along with the best of them! :)
@Jimself arent particles & fields still separate in QFT? dont know how they are more unified, but need to look further into it.
 
6:24 PM
everything is a field in QFT. That's why it's Quantum Field Theory
 
@vzn particles are interpreted in QFT, the notion of a particle is not fundamental
 
vzn
way cool :)
better read up on it
 
@ACuriousMind Weinberg talking about massless neutrinos
 
@vzn thanks for upvotes..
@Jimself ivcouldnt really use your advice abt the links.. i only had one question with a link..
 
vzn
6:40 PM
@TanMath so whats new about plant photosynthesis anyway?
 
@ACuriousMind please write a book on group theory
 
@0celo7 It will be part of my 5000 page epic on quantum physics ;)
 
@ACuriousMind ETA?
 
@0celo7 2050 :D
 
I would like a rigorous treatment of QM/QFT that does not assume I'm an analysis and algebra wizard
 
6:45 PM
@0celo7 If you can't do mathemagics, you don't deserve to call yourself a physicist
 
I'll assume you're an analysis druid, then.
 
@ACuriousMind you said that functional analysis class looks good
I might be ready for some light analysis after that
@ACuriousMind Ch. 1 Algebraic Geometry of the Lorentz Group
@ACuriousMind these indices in Weinberg have me thinking...could you write a book on QFT without any indices?
 
@0celo7 if you're a mathematician probably
 
@0celo7 One can cut down on them substantially, yes, but at some time you have to compute stuff explicitly or at least explain the the notation, I think
 

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