Left home at 5:30am, got back at 9pm. The DC worker bee struggle is real.

@DanielSank I'll go further and state that, in my experience, almost all people that have not owned / operated a business have effectively no clue how money is genuinely made (or how unnecessarily difficult this essential productive activity has become due, mostly, to the actions of those that produce nothing).

One might be able to argue that even those owning the business don't necessarily have a clue either (which is possibly why most start ups fail)

i.stack.imgur.com/hQikI.jpg source :bitrebels.com/lifestyle/…

@KyleKanos

@KyleKanos the age old proverb "it takes money to make money" comes to mind :-)

Nope, it takes money borrowed from the bank at low interest rates to make money.

Well, that was pointless. Arrived at uni -> lecturer ill, so no lecture -> turned back to go home -> traffic chaos, no trams or buses coming -> four hours of my life wasted for nothing.

@KyleKanos actually the reason why textbooks etc. are so expensive is due to the costs of printing. Since you cannot use the usual tricks, such as decreasing the resolution of printers or whatever device they are using, to get the cost down, it becomes expensive. Furthermore they are sometimes colourful figures etc. in the book, which makes the textbook way more expensive than it should. In any case selling a 300 page book for >100$ is not ok for me for any reason.

@ACuriousMind didn't you have anything to read the whole time?

@KyleKanos publishers usually want the documents in pdf form before printing, because it is easier for them to work with a pdf document

@ACuriousMind traffic jam in germany in heidelberg in particular? really??

there were too many "in"s in my previous post :D

BTW as a general question to all: How do you read a physics textbook?

I usually have a paper and pen for calculations and to do stuff that is left out and once I'm done I throw all those papers away?

In particular do you take notes on a notebook etc. to look at it later?

@skillpatrol It was raining and I wasn't inside since I wanted to get home

@gonenc traffic jams are nothing unusual in Heidelberg, but usually the trams and buses work. There probably was an accident somewhere causing this, but I don't know.

@ACuriousMind I was hoping a small city where there would be no traffic jam or noise because of traffic :(

I'm utterly sick and tired of traffic because of Istanbul, which is one of the reason I'm going to heidelberg instead of münchen etxc :(

@gonenc The problem is that there are only about three or four main routes - and during rush hour, everyone is driving along those.

@ACuriousMind I see. I don't think I'll have much trouble though. The dorm is in im neuenheimer feld so do the lecture halls :)

@gonenc Ah, living in the Feld is nice as a STEM student

@ACuriousMind if I get a place of studentenwerk, of course :D if not I'm sort of doomed because I haven't searched for any place to stay there :D

@gonenc Ah, well, living under a bridge has its perks ;)

@ACuriousMind under a bridge?

Isn't that what the homeless are said to do?

Equations such as Schrödingers and Boltzmanns, defining parts of theories, have "parameters" that are more than just numbers, e.g. Hamiltonians or collision integrals. Is there a name for this?

I feel uneasy calling "i(∂/∂t)v=Hv, where H is an operator" a differential equation, usually introduced with example such as v''=k·v

@gonenc This is simply not true. Had you done any amount of research on it, you'd have seen it being patently false (cf., this article that shows it being ~\$11 on a ~\$220 book, compared to the ~\$60 for editors)

the problem is that the abstraction of H gives an object that lives in the space that maps operators to a logical expression (an equality here). I feel the only solution for a formalization is to map, for any fixed H, to the solution space of the resuling differential equation.

Marketing accounts for nearly \$30, author royalties another \$25

Could someone help me out with a very basic physics problem?

So to say that printing is what keeps the costs up is very naive as to the actual costs involved in making a book (as stated above)

@GridleyQuayle Askaway

@gonenc Something I've been doing more and more is just to spend more time on the problems than the text, and if the text has no problems then to formulate problems and then solve those.

We have a particle on a smooth floor mass m, it is being pulled horizontally by a string which is being retracted at speed v. the height of the room is h and the string makes an angle a with the vertical . what is the speed of the particle (vsin(a) I think), and it's acceleration

Then find the tension and show the particle leaves the forums at tan^4=v^2/gh

The floor *

So while the particle is in contact Tcos=mg and mx(d dot) =Tsin right?

So since tan=h/Sin then x(ddot) = gh/vsin?

Any help?

I have a feeling energy has to come into it but I can't immediately see where as the string is inelastic and the particle hasn't been raised off the ground

@gonenc I learn by doing, so taking notes is (almost) useless to me. I prefer to read the chapter, do the problems there, then move on to the next chapter.

@KyleKanos this says otherwise

@KyleKanos I know from experience that they cannot reduce the costs. I used to be the editor of our scientific magazine and dealt with a lot of publishing stuff myself.

@gonenc My link says otherwise to that one.

Yes, printing is one cost that really can't be reduced, I agree

trying to reduce the costs (we never sold our magazine and gave it for free) that was their reason ie there are mathematical formulae and charts so we cant use our tricks to reduce the costs

But it's not the cost that's keeping prices up

of course not! but I was objecting to the price of ebooks rather than of textbooks

:)

And as I said last night, you'll be trading one cost for another

you can at least make a 10% discount for a ebook- no transportation, no printing etc.

Just because you're missing out on the \$10 for printing, doesn't mean that you're earning an extra \$10 profit

You still have to pay someone to transfer it from paper (or pdf copy) to an ebook-friendly format

@KyleKanos but you do it only once

it is not like you have to do it every time you sell the book, unlike printing and transporting

That's not much of an objection, it still costs money to do it

that is actually an objection! say you give generously 2000-3000 \$ for that job to be done. If you plan to sell 1000 copies of the book you only have to add 2-3$ per book

Any help with my problem?

Use the \ before the dollar sign

It'll cancel the mathjax

on the other hand even in your link the printing said to be cost 10$

I don't know how much transportation etc. costs the publisher

and if you reduce the price of an ebook by at least 10% you can be sure that you'll sell more than 1000 copies if your book is so popular that people can afford to give 100-200\$ for it

Transportation is generally pretty darn cheap--think about it this way: Scotland ships its fish to China to be cut up & back again because it's cheaper than getting Scots to do it.

well it costs roughly 50$ for me to send bare papers to germany. Of course it is a private request but that won't change the fact that transportation aint no cheap ;)

But do note that Amazon does reduce at least some of its science ebooks

That link shows a Molecular Bio book costing \$104 for the book and \$40 for the ebook

How they're pulling that off is unclear to me

@KyleKanos that is a nice way to see that it can be done ;)

But the whole point last night was simply this: you cannot expect that every ebook will be significantly cheaper just because it isn't printed. There are a lot more (costly) factors in making a book than printing

@KyleKanos In short, your argument is that there is little incentive other than portability for the poorer students to buy ebooks (legally, that is)

No, and I've never argued that

I've argued that just because an ebook isn't printed on paper shouldn't necessitate that it be any cheaper than a printed copy

That there should not be any expectation that it would be cheaper

The implication of that is essentially what i stated.

I disagree

There's nothing in my statement about incentives or portability or students

It's only about the expectations of cost

people do expect ebooks to be cheaper

let's start there

What does a student trying to cut costs at any rate care about what he should expect ebook costs to be ?

I know that they expect them to be cheaper, but that's based on wrong assumption

@KyleKanos that I object atm and searching for a reliable source

It is true that ebooks often are cheaper, but many people think that costs should be dropped to next-to-nothing because "it isn't printed"

Like textbooks, for instance

@Gaurav Who cares about the student avoiding being a spendthrift? The issue isn't the student, it's the expectation of the general populous.

@KyleKanos Notice what I've said above I am talking about a 10% decrease from the printed version :)

Again, I'm not talking about any one particular person, I'm talking the general populous

ebooks have the advantage over paper books of adjusting their supply to their demand

faster than paper textbooks

ebooks also are harder to write notes in the margin (especially for scientific textbooks, how easily can equations be written in?)

But they're also way lighter

(weighing in at a few electrons)

There are pros & cons on both ends

capitalism has shown that the more efficient market will dominate over time

paper is on the way out

@KyleKanos I usually read by my desk so I have pen and paper to write stuff :D

:D

Paper books are better and easier to read.

I'm a father of 4; any pens or paper left out get scribbled upon by the kids

@KyleKanos that is not very nice :D:D

Looking back at a book I was reading, I couldn't help but laugh

@0celo7 they are but the thing is .... I aint got no 100$ to pay for every book I want to read

My daughter used my green highlighter to "color" a picture

I didn't know she had done that, so a few months later when I saw it, I just laughed

@KyleKanos do you have a photo of the colored picture :D

Not at the moment, but I can get one in a bit (waiting for a phone call for an interview for a job)

@0celo7 and I am not in the states and have to pay for the delivery and all...

and usually libraries don't have the book I want because well f**ck turkey :)

@KyleKanos I hope you'll get the job you want :)

I like having a copy of both the ebook and the paper book, then I can have two pages open at one time.

@gonenc Thanks

I don't mean to badger but does anybody have any suggestions?

@GridleyQuayle Try asking on the main site :-)

you'll get a much more detailed answer

@GridleyQuayle do you know how to use LaTeX?

Yeah I do but not sure how to get it to work on the mobile chat site.

There is a Stackexchange app

The chat doesn't work on that unless I am mistaken

I'm more looking for a hint rather than a full answer anyway. I didn't think a hint on a problem merited a full question.

@GridleyQuayle Such homework/exercise questions are off-topic here, please don't ask it

@skillpatrol: Stop advising people coming to this chat to ask questions on the site that are off-topic.

@ACuriousMind Is asking for hints off-topic?

I know now, thanks.

Am I allowed to ask for hints on the chat?

@GridleyQuayle hints to what?

I should clarify there is a whole in the ceiling through which the string in being pulled

Hole*

you can ask for hints, but you might not find many takers.

Sorry for the catastrophic spelling and grammar by the way. Writing quickly on a small touchscreen does that sometimes.

@GridleyQuayle I think this community is way more accepting than to ridicule someone for a spelling listake.

^ Exactly, after all, we make listakes ourselves

We like Psysics too.

@Gaurav please don't do that :D its horrible :D (it's intended btw :D)

@ACuriousMind There are off-topic chat questions?

@0celo7 That question is off topic for chat

Is chat off-topic the same as SE off-topic?

@0celo7 No

I see that my phrasing "here" is ambiguous, though.

I'm fairly sure I've asked homework-like questions on here, no problem.

Is it the lack of effort towards an answer that makes it off-topic?

partially

I think we've closed a few of your homework-like questions, too

In the past, on the main site.

@0celo7 Don't you know that anything Physics is off-topic for chat ?

I'm confused about things being off-topic for chat.

Like I said, I've asked plenty of homework-like questions here (chat) and gotten responses.

I didn't mean to say a homework question is off-topic in chat - I meant that they shouldn't ask it on the main site, because skillpatrol recommended that just prior to my message you're confused about.

I think if you weren't on mobile and could see the arrows you'd be less confused :P

Fucking hell. I'm on mobile.

I'm voting to close this chat comment as off-topic because.... reasons!

I'm gonna go to my first hearing today. Exciting.

Unless you're studying to be a law professional, that's not the attitude most people would have about a hearing

Senate hearing on energy policy.

And this is what you find exciting, is it?

Ooh, the stuff of hollywood movies.

There's always a chance for a good old fashioned caning.

Mr. 0celo7 goes to a Senate Hearing on Energy Policy

Can you say "Best Picture Award"?

@JimsBond That sounds...educational

@ChrisWhite All hail Ra

Don't comment, otherwise chat's gonna put that dotted line below Jim's comment.

If it's boring I'll just pull out HE and start raging at vague proofs.

Watch me on C-SPAN!

@ChrisWhite Magical? We have magnetic energy?

@0celo7 do you have a link?

I'll write a bill giving billions of dollars to magnetic monopole energy research.

@skillpatrol To? I can't see which post you referenced.

If it's C-span, I'm looking right now.

C-SPAN

yes please :)

Perhaps the only member who's mod of both Physics and Chemistry is too self-righteous.

Who would that be?

This guy.

@skillpatrol It's not on C-SPAN :(

:(

@Gaurav agreed

It's at 2PM, so if you want to stop by our glorious Capitol, I can get you in.

DC

Can I bring some rum too ?

Yeah

There's a case of beer in the fridge.

@Gaurav Obvious answers are obvious

@gonenc: below is the picture my daughter drew

It's a city bus

or a car

or a flower

What book?

don't be silly

@JimsBond What kind of car do you drive? :D

It's Brownian motion!!

more like greenian motion

Your daughter is Einstein 2.0.

it's not brown

@JimsBond It's not a Jackal. Not sure what it is

Is it a jackal?

I'll ask her when she gets back from the library

@KyleKanos that is so adorable :D

er, through the gud conductor really?

@KyleKanos Lol, I saw that too

Why do they even make those green highlighters ? They're as good as green sketckpens.

Because yellow highlighters look like someone peed on your book?

and blue is too dark

Exactlee.

In re the FF7 remake video I linked earlier: Here is an interview with the director who discusses (in very vague terms) how the game is going to change: engadget.com/2015/06/17/…

I should have expected 2015 to be a big year at E3. It's a nice round number that company execs can point to and say, "Let's try to have it ready for E3 by, say, 2015"

But I still wasn't prepared for it

ME4, Fallout4, FF7, the list goes on

People have been ogling the FF7 remake since they redid the opening sequence for the PS3

I almost wouldn't be surprised if they next announced HL3

almost

@JimsBond See you in 2034

@KyleKanos Nope, release date will be October 24, 2077

That's a Sunday

So?

Usually media like that are released on Tuesdays

this is 62 years in the future, clearly that will change

If you're stuck on Oct 24, it's either 2073 or 2079

@JimsBond You have no idea how stuck Americans are with "tradition"

@KyleKanos I'm sure it will specifically be set for October 24, 2077

Too bad with what happens the day before though

\$1 in 2015 dollars says you're wrong

What happens on 2077/10/23?

google it

Oh, Fallout

the bombs drop

In fifty years time, y'all Uncle Sams gonna be communists.

Which is more than enough reason for conducting E37 on a sunday.

Any of you guys studied the Polyakov Path Integral? damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/string/five.pdf Specifically have you studied it's formulation where you don't initially assume Weyl invariance (page 119, pdf page 12) allowing a formulation of non-critical string theory?

somebody said to me that anything can be represented by a number. I pointed them to NaN

ignoring the fact that anything I type into a computer is turned into 1s and 0s and, therefore, is represented by a number

@JimsBond lol

NaN is still a numeric data type, represented by any bit pattern between 7F800001 and 7FBFFFFF or between FF800001 and FFBFFFFF

(at least for signalling nans)

but it's not a number

Eh, more apt description is that it's a number that represents a faulty operation

and yeah, I think there's a significant difference between being able to encrypt or express a communicable idea using numbers and actually representing the idea as a number

g2g: beer time

At 2pm?

is there a problem with that?

No

then yes

Okay

@JimsBond I see the reference now

who is this guy who happens to be a ♦ mod on each stack exchange site? physics.stackexchange.com/users/66/sklivvz

@gonenc An SE employee.

(as you can see on his profile...)

Somebody who actually gets paid to be here :P

@skillpatrol #thedream

Some day pal :-)

:D

newscientist.com/article/…

My apologies for not formatting that^