The h Bar - 2013-07-16 (page 1 of 2)

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12:15 AM

I was reading this study on atlatl weights, and it seems interesting.
http://www.academia.edu/3073816/Sticks_with_Stones_Controlled_Experimentation_in_the_use_of_the_Weighted_Atlatl
Since adding a weight to an atlatl significantly decreases the power of the shot in exchange for significant increases in dart accuracy, depending on the hunting target, you would need a certain optimal power and accuracy combination to "one-shot" an animal, too weak and the animal gets the fight/flight choice, too inaccurate and it also allows it the fight/flight choice. also there must be some target spots tha…

12:34 AM

This is a... not sure what to call it... answer:

-1

A: Question self-destruction: why don't experts ask more questions?

I think it is because site model discourages most important thing in any question-answer process --- a debate! Top users simply stop thinking (as simple as it gets) and get addicted to their given field of knowledge, answering more and more similar questions. Gaining infinite reputation which mea...

1:08 AM

@0xFFF1 Atlatls are cool. Back in grad school I was moonlighting as techsupport at a little salvage archeology firm, and the CEO was a flint knapper and atlatl maker/user.

user54412

1:46 AM

hmmm this VTC'd question is pure math - no physics here - but at the same time, the notation would likely be lost on math.SE

user54412

wayyyy too much physics shorthand for operations of questionable legitimacy

user54412

is it morally right to vote to migrate if the question fits the other site except in notation?

user54412

(will ask on meta if no quick answers here)

I would think so -- it's the subject matter that's important right?

Sloppy notation, they can deal with on their own through edits/etc

Plus the answer can go with it

So there's no need for them to understand it I guess :)

user54412

@tpg2114 done

user54412

1:50 AM

and I didn't even see that there was an answer - the close vote interface (intentionally?) doesn't give a full view of all the information

Interesting

Almost to the point I'll be able to review...

Only 800 more to go :/

2:15 AM

@dmckee @DavidZaslavsky @ManishEarth: For once, I've silenced the mods with my meta post..! - No comments or answers to my question from mods :P

2:34 AM

@CrazyBuddy Well, I got bored. :p

2:50 AM

Maybe I should never get to 3000 rep and see if I can cast a record number of flags... :)

3:25 AM

Okay, I thought the DARPA Big Dog was creepy as anything...

uk.news.yahoo.com/video/…

1 hour later…

4:46 AM

@tpg2114 This makes sense.

@DavidZaslavsky fwiw we can suspend for plagiarism

@CrazyBuddy Mainly because we cut down on posting after getting diamonds

user54412

5:09 AM

hmmm - there's a chat session in 11 hours

user54412

wonder if we can keep this one up for 4 straight hours...

@ChrisWhite Not sure about today. Got some hostel room allotment issues (mainly, I've been allotted the room which is the "store room" during the vacations, and the folks who have kept stuff there aren't coming till tomorrow)

Yeah!

David Zaslavsky

I'll be around for this one

We may be able to discuss the list question thing. I usually don't like bringing up controversial stuff in chat, but in this case it has somehow been de-controversied

Well, still controversial, but in a good way

David Zaslavsky

Yeah, that is the logical topic of discussion

Personally I tend to think chat is exactly the place for controversial stuff

5:17 AM

(i.e. the community can't make up their mind for most answers there)

@DavidZaslavsky There's the meta drama type controversy and then there's the "all answers are +5/-5" controversy

The former...best keep it out of chat. The latter ... perfect for chat

David Zaslavsky

Well, OK, but that former type doesn't belong anywhere really

Yeah

But we did have the former type of meta drama controversy on the same subject as the current meta +5/-5

user54412

and the completely unnecessary astronomy unit of the day: the rayleigh

user54412

this post was brought to you by today's astro-ph

Ha!

I'm surprised that we have so many such units and still don't have a unit for electric field

67

A: Can we have the ability to rescind a close vote before it closes?

There are a lot of "I agree" answers here already, which is great, but how about a good solution? Basically, when clicking the close button again after already having voted to close, change the original "Vote to Close" button to be a "Retract Vote" button: Clicking the "Retract Vote" butt...

This sucks because I don't get to test it myself on Phys

user54412

5:38 AM

@ManishEarth 1 statvolt/cm = 1 dyne/esu = 1 gauss - come to the dark side; we have a unit for electric field

@ChrisWhite LOL

user54412

and it's even the same as the one for magnetic field - how awesome is that!

CGS shall never have my soul!

Even if it is my father

I wonder if they came up with SI to counter the horror that was CGS and not because there were a whole bunch of unit systems

user54412

i will admit that having \sqrt{g} floating around as a unit is... disconcerting

user54412

but at least people who are raised on CGS don't go around claiming magnetic fields have some sort of special existence independent of electric charges :P

5:45 AM

@ChrisWhite lol

@ChrisWhite Tell them that they'll have to come up with a separately existing gravitomagnetic field then

Though iirc gravetomagnetism:gravity::magnetism:electrostatics is false

user54412

honestly, i rarely hear about gravitomagnetism except in MTW - I think one of those authors (W - if anyone it was W) just really likes analogies-turned-flights-of-fancy

@ChrisWhite You hear about the Lens(e?)-Thirring effect around spinning black holes often

user54412

@ManishEarth decently enough (and I think there are 2 e's)

Yeah

Yep, two e's

user54412

Wait I can color equations??? physics.stackexchange.com/q/71216/10851

user54412

5:57 AM

(or was I already told that and forgot?)

Yes

$\require{color}$

user54412

@ManishEarth take a look at the source for that post

user54412

there's no \require anything

user54412

or does that just load names rather than hex codes for colors?

Hmm, could be de facto required like mhchem on chem

Course registration, y u no work?

2 hours later…

Anonymous

7:46 AM

@Dilaton Isn't aninhilating the problem just like obtaining the solution? Maybe the Witten-Ashtekar/Motl-Ashtekar/Witten-Smolin/Motl-Smolin/Sen-Ashtekar/Sen-Smolin/etc. etc. etc. methods obtain this kind of a result: $$\mathcal M = M_1 \mathbb{S} + M_2 \mathbb{L}$$ where $\left(\mathbb S, \mathbb L\right)$ is (1,0) , NO! (0,1). Nope (1,0). Noooo!!!!!! (0,1). NOPE. No matter what ever you say (1,0), NOooooOOOooOoOoOOOOO! It is (0,1). , NOoooooooOoOOOo! It's (1,0) !!!!!! !!! ......

Anonymous

Noooo!!!!

Anonymous

And then in the ArXiV Preprint:

Anonymous

"$\infty$ pages, 0 figures, $\infty$ amusement. "

Anonymous

And the printing takes forever. ... ..

9:56 AM

0

Q: A non mainstream answer for complex mass particle kinematics

This post is about Zephir's answer here. To quote him, In AWT (dense aether model) all particles have complex mass terms due the quantum fluctuations. A the case of photons and neutrinos the complex mass becomes pronounced. With respect to high density of atom nuclei the mesons are have comp...

discussion scope flagging

2 hours later…

11:35 AM

-1

Q: A website for reading list

Every once in a while someone asks a question for books on a certain topic. The answers often cite other (already answered) questions which themselves cite other questions. So I decided to make a small website dedicated to providing references to any topic at any level. The following question hel...

reference-request big-list

One does not simply escape the wrath of moderators. — Schlomo Steinbergerstein 1 hour ago

This question is off topic because i.stack.imgur.com/qjV4T.png — Manishearth 2 mins ago

^^ used as close reason :P

Hi @ManishEarth thanks, so could you unfreez the Books chat room such that I can give the OP of the corresponding question the link?

Just about to do that

Do you have a link?

nvm got it

ManishEarth has frozen this room.

Oops

ManishEarth has unfrozen this room.

11:43 AM

Books

Dont know which book to study from? Lets discuss!!

@Dilaton Btw, something I've noticed about your meta comments -- they generally are multiple comments long. While long comments are OK in meta, I find that when you have to write a 2-comment long comment, usually there's something wrong. Try to make them concise :)

Not policy, though, just some advice

You can get your point across more clearly if you do it that way, usually

This question has been flagged for reopening. It's status is currently being debated in meta. I am voting to keep closed (it was for good reason as being an unproductive question) unless and until a consensus is reached there saying otherwise. Please do not try to sneak in a policy circumvention, even if one is in the process of appealing that policy. — Chris White 12 hours ago

Also, while you're here, that^^ is what I meant in the comment on meta

Don't VTC and VTreopen against policy.

12:16 PM

@ManishEarth I sometimes look at closed questions and if I find one that I think should not be closed I vote to reopen (with or without an edit) and I think there should be nothing wrong with this :-). The reopen queue is there for people to try to community reopen questions, if I dont understand this wrong. And I think is good if a larger audience than just the moderators can be drown in to decide if a question should be closed or open.

Thanks for unfreezing the Books room, I now go and give the link.

@Dilaton Sure. I'm saying that when it is explicitly against policy, don't reopen

For example, that plasma physics one -- that's against policy and you know that

Don't reopen, that's "leave closed"

In this case, you attempt to change the policy

By doing what Nathaniel did

@ChrisWhite Yeah... Me too... (not too much assignments) ;-)

@ManishEarth I have seen that ;-)

@CrazyBuddy I'm currently more or less living out of a box right now :P

Not really

@ManishEarth: So, your hostel room allotments start just today? o.O

But my stuff is divided between the rooms of my friends

@CrazyBuddy No, I knew my room for a week

It's the box (bigger room at end of corridor) room

Unfortunately, the box room is usually used as a store room by students during the vacations

12:20 PM

You always get bigger rooms..!

Instead of taking their belongings home, they put stuff in the store room (this is allowed, and it's a good policy)

and then lock it

@ManishEarth Yeah... we have that too... But, they use it as a TV room (now) ;-)

But not everyone has come yet so it's piled high with mattresses and bags

Ahh...

@CrazyBuddy Btw, have you solved Irodov?

Someone mentioned it in the books room, and I realized that you may enjoy it

There are a lot of silly problems (silly as in "Here's the acceleration, calculate time taken to reach a distance s"), but a lot of really good calculus based ones that make you rethink your concepts

12:26 PM

@ManishEarth Dunno... (didn't go there, as I thought it wouldn't be much active), I should have a look ;-)

You may want to borrow it from your library and try it out. Not all the problems, just the interesting ones.

I'll see...

Hah... Now, I remember..! I saw "2" in my inbox, but just visited h-bar ;-)

@ManishEarth So, regarding that "book" (I doubt our library has that), I think I can get it in the internet ;-)

Yeah

I probably have a pdf myself :P

@ManishEarth Open your link :D

(BTW, I still read Feynman lectures)

Not a link, a pdf

12:31 PM

@ManishEarth I said your IIT link ;-)

and my Common/Windows 8 drives are currently hibernate-locked

So I can't pull it out

Oh my..!

Okay... I'll search it ;-)

user image

Better turn off fast boot

Hah..! Get out of h-bar :P

@CrazyBuddy I'm the room owner, the computer deemed me worthy of becoming one. I decide what's on topic ;-)

12:36 PM

What? @PhysicsMeta: Is mod-orator reversible..? I want to reset someone..! :D

(Meh... Physics meta is one active drunk user) :P

@CrazyBuddy I'm not room owner because I'm a mod

I was once appointed room owner

automatically

long ago

@ManishEarth I know..!

ah right

Andruino too... Isn't it?

What? Nope.

12:39 PM

@ManishEarth: (IIRC, you became a room owner here, 2 times)

@CrazyBuddy I can add myself as an owner, but there isn't much point doing so

Corrected.!

Ah.

Yeah, Arduino

I was Ar.SE's top rep user; then it shut down :P

@CrazyBuddy yep, twice

Once, David removed you,,... then, you were added again..!

yep

Jan 11 at 1:42, by David Zaslavsky

hehe, @Manishearth I guess the computer has big plans for you

12:40 PM

@ManishEarth I was there..! You too gave the permalink from Andruino ;-)

@ManishEarth: Currently, downloading 4 PDF (Irodov) ;-)

Arduino, not Andruino :P

Ohh... I've confused it with Android..! (Stupid tech people - don't even give nice names) :D

Look at Physics... It has nice names - Ricci, Calabi-Yau, (I can't forget those names - I was an STist for a day) Riemann (Okay,, Math too!!??) :D

1:19 PM

@ManishEarth: Does SE has some conflict with Apple..?

Because, SE engine has something with Safari ;-)

Votes don't increment, new activity, edits don't show up --> shortly, pages don't refresh automatically..!

Even the clock (saying 1 min ago, 2 hours ago, etc.) doesn't increment automatically..! -_-

51 mins ago, by Crazy Buddy

What? @PhysicsMeta: Is mod-orator reversible..? I want to reset someone..! :D

(Atleast, give me his hat) - he himself had told this many times - "Keeping my mod hat aside..."

Why aside? throw it to me..! :D

1:56 PM

@ChrisWhite Why did you vote to close this question? It is one of the more interesting higher level questions that could be called slightly homeworke and should therefore be ok. There is also enough physics in it for it to be here. I know that you are not a particular fan of string theory ;-) but this is no reason to close vote such questions ...

@Dilaton You're saying that ST-HW questions should be given special preference?

@CrazyBuddy I am saying that interesting enough homeworky questions as defined here on Physic SE should be ok, protested against closing about reasonably good enough ones concerning other topics (black hole physics and more classical ones) too, said leave open etc

I am not against all homework questions, only the bad ones...

@tpq2114: this question is clearly about physics, namely string-theory and conformal-field-theory. Just because certain parts of theoretical physics are quite mathematical naturally (there is nothing wrong with this!) there is no reason to close/and or migrate these questions. I suspect I would disagree with many of your flags (if I could see them) and closevotes ... ;-P

Even though I sometimes think technical theoretical physic questions would have a more friendly home, get more attention, more upvotes, answers, at MathOverflow, they support some cool physics tags too ... :-)

2:15 PM

@Dilaton By your definition, bad homework is only low level

We do not distinguish between the level here

@Dilaton And in this case, it is math. Are there any physics concepts involved? No

I won't VTC it yet, but it really looks like math to me

And the answer confirms it

just that the notation is physics

Again, if interesting was a topic on what to keep and what not to keep then we would have full chaos. What is interesting to you may not be interesting to others

We have a very clear homework policy. No physics concepts? Not appropriate

@ManishEarth the divergence theorem has a lot to do with phyics. People who say this question is math only would consider the content of every technical ST book, and more generally large parts of theoretical physics as pure math. Exactly such technical questions should be appreciated here, we have enough incoming questions that ask only for low level equation free explanations of things ...

@Dilaton Yes, but in a string theory book you still have physical reasoning. While a lot of the ST posts on this site are math-intensive, they still contain physical reasoning

This question is asking for purely mathematical manipulation

It's in the context of string theory, that's all

Look at the answer. Is there any physical reasoning there?

user54412

@Dilaton It was not for being HW or ST - the question is asking about pure math

user54412

It's good that the question was answered - but there is no physics content to it

fwiw it's hw too :P

user54412

2:30 PM

not all good questions, not even all good high-level questions inspired by Polchinski, are physics

user image

So true

user54412

@ManishEarth I can't even do that - not timed exams anyway

@ChrisWhite Neither can I for that matter.

With timed exams I have a tendency to make mistakes

3*4=7, for example

Anonymous

@Dilaton I agree the divergence theorem is quite important in Physics. Gives a lot of intuition for the Holographic principle, as an example.

user54412

bbl ::coffee+arxiv time::

2:40 PM

I did some arxiving in the vacations. Now I probably will have to stick to abstracts. -_- (Of course, I never understood each paper 100%, but I was usually able to find at least one interesting yet understandable article.)

@Dimension10 exactly, so I still disagree that such technical questions should be discouraged here.

@ChrisWhite exactly what dimesnsion10 says, the divergence theorem is related to the holographyic principle and this clearly is physics for people who are not among the persons who dismiss certain parts of modern physics. Only physicists who study these theoretical physics topics are therefore interested in and willing to answer such questions. At Math.SE for example, it would just have become a tumbleweed because mathematicians are unfamiliar with the topic of the question.

@Dilaton By that argument any question ("prove stokes' theorem" or "how can I evaluate this tensor product") that is primarily about math but has huge applications in physics is on topic here

@ManishEarth you just can not clearly separate quetions into math and physics, because mathematics is the language of physics. The more theoretical the topic, the more math it uses. I think one should apply some wise reasoning too and think about how useful the answer to such technical questions would be for people who want to seriously study these topics. In the case of this question the nice answer given is very useful for ST students and it would be a pitty if they would never see it,

or even worse: that answer would never have been given because the question would have been closed or migrated.

@Dilaton Sure. But there's a difference between just using math and being all about math

Polchinski's theorem may simply use math and have physical reasoning

Anonymous

Physics doesn't "use" math. It is a special case of math.

2:50 PM

But does the question you link to involve any invocation of physical reasoning?

Anonymous

ematics.

Tell that to the mathematicians

@Dilaton They would see it, on Math.SE. People come here via Google.

Anonymous

Besides, asking the question on Math.SE may result in tooooo rigorous answers (a mathematician doesn't mean someone who studies math, just means someone who studies mathematics/physics in a veeeeery rigorous way...) for physics.

@ManishEarth I think it would be nice to look at things a little bit from the point of view of people who came here to learn and study physics too. I for example would never have noted that question on Math.SE because when I look for questions concerning ST that could be similar to what I dont understand I look on Physics SE and not on Math.

Anonymous

Thus, Newton's a mathematician, and Leibniz's a physicist.

Anonymous

2:53 PM

: )

@Dimension10 exactly physicists and mathematicians have offen a quite different point of view to look at the same issue.

@Dilaton This is like the thirtieth time you've said that. Since I've already had this argument with you, I'd like to not continue this discussion.

Anonymous

Actually, you exaggerated by 900%.

Anonymous

Just counted.

Sheesshhh... People star each other..!

Anonymous

2:56 PM

I didn't star.

Anonymous

Anyone.

Anonymous

At all.

@ManishEarth I only repeat it because you absolutely refuse to look at things from the point of view of the physicists who want to study such physics topics. If you only could try to imagine a little bit how people who want to learn these things and take this into account when considering such things as the ontopicness of for example such technical questions ...

@ManishEarth BTW, I think that estimate is quite low... If you include every single of 'em who visited h-bar and enjoyed with Dilaton, it will give you a good number - What about a 100? (more ???) ;-)

@Dilaton I warn you again, do not make unfounded accusations against moderators. I have repeatedly told you that I look at things from the POV of physicists too. I have never refused to do so.

2:59 PM

@ManishEarth now you are becaming authoritative and threatening :-(

@Dilaton Because you have been warned about this at least thrice before

Do not make unfounded accusations. Against anyone.

This is an official warning.

@ManishEarth can we talk somewhere outside (Physics) SE?

@Dilaton: Maybe you should try asking "Can we talk something outside TP & ST?" :P

Not now because I have to leave for a real world issue ...

@Dilaton You can email me at manishg [at] iitb.ac.in if you have something you want to tell the mod team in private, but otherwise I don't wish to continue this discussion.

3:01 PM

END OF THIS DISCUSSION

We have chat session today my fellas..! (starts within 30 mins)

Anonymous

@Dilaton: On your profile, is the (1,1,-1,-1,-1,-1...) supposed to mean the F-theory metric signature or something else? (There are 12 entries).

Anonymous

4 messages in a second?

Anonymous

.

Anonymous

Or 6?

Anonymous

3:03 PM

.

@Manishearth I'd like to talk to you in private in a context that could not be used against me concerning my presence on Physics SE ... later.

@Dilaton fine, email me, but I don't guarantee a reply

Ohh... my... Here we go again..! -_-

Crazy Buddy has frozen this room

@Dimension10 yeah, it is the F-Theory metric ha ha :-D. And with this funny and more happy comment I definitively have to leave.

3:16 PM

Oh my... An old-timer has come..! Hey @RhysW ;-)

@CrazyBuddy ahh

i ended up here by mistake xD

@RhysW: Yeah... I'm waiting with an axe :D

@CrazyBuddy i clicked rejoin fav rooms, guess i fav'ed this one!

What brings you here? Chat session..?

speaking of which, area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/43283/space-exploration 100%! :D

3:17 PM

@RhysW Long time no see

@RhysW I was the 90th committer iirc

@ManishEarth hey manish, yeah its been a while, though i swear youv ebeen stalking me, i still see you on every site :P

@RhysW Yeah..! You shouldn't forget me & Manish..!

@RhysW lol. What "every site"?

I don't appear on TW

@ManishEarth ironically though one of the things moved from TW to SO meta, you turned up on :P

ah right

3:19 PM

@CrazyBuddy been swamped recently, had no time to drop in :(

@RhysW Btw, saw that post on discuss.a51 about the NASA forum deleting the referral? :P

ahh... You're at the right time..!

We had a good laugh about it in the TL

Today's chat session topic - "Absence of RhysW"..! - Anyone skeptical?

@RhysW There are a couple of users that I end up seeing everywhere too. One is "gerrit", the other is "Mark Booth" (who likes hanging around new betas, much like I used to) :P

3:45 PM

@ManishEarth no i havent seen that one!

@RhysW It's hilarious!

@ManishEarth linky?

17

Q: Space Exploration Proposal Promotion Deleted because of "Area 51" connection

I was trying to share the link for the upcoming Space Exploration, to get more users. After all, it's just about to beta. http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/43283/space-exploration And then, aghast, I was taken by complete surprise by the reason that a NASA forum deleted my topic. S...

technology area51-meta

Oy, someone ping me when the session starts, I may take a nap :P

@ManishEarth hahaha, full of people wearing tin foil hats it seems

And NASA's tinfoil-y about tinfoil people

3:50 PM

@ManishEarth "OMG your site references area 51 which is totally about alien invasionz! We will have nothing to do with it despite obviously not having even followed the link and learnt that its a site promoting the knowledge transfer of space and technology to the general public!"

It's probably a blacklist

either that or they dont like competition!

lol

they dont like having lost the space race, they arent about to lose this

their members that is

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