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12:02 PM
@ArnoldNeumaier Can we set up a petition for Ron such that everybody who wants to can sign it and then hand it in to a higher authority? Maybe we should contact some distinct and highly estimated physicists Ron knows in person to sign too and help us in resolving this issue for good? What have you already done or do you still intend to do to (if anything)...? Something should be done about our community being deprived of our best experts and contributors like this by external forces ...
 
 
3 hours later…
2:32 PM
@Dilaton: I had written a mail, and got a reply saying that ''it is our duty to maintain some semblance of professionalism on these sites", by which they apparently mean to strictly follow the rules they had imposed on the site. Thus the only way out seems to work on having the rules changed. I think the responses to your post meta.physics.stackexchange.com/q/2713/7924 already show that physics.SE wants an exception, so an additional petition is not likely to help.
 
2:47 PM
Hello everyone
 
0
Q: Request for establishing a new privilege: to undo a ban

Arnold NeumaierAs recent events showed, there is a need for a mechanism that allows a ban of a very active community member deemed important by enough community members to be reversed. In a comment to http://meta.physics.stackexchange.com/a/2716/7924, bmike asked me: I'm asking for where you'd draw the line w...

 
Hi Alenanno
 
3:38 PM
anybody here?
 
I am.
 
Hi there
 
Hello!
 
what do you think of Arnold's proposal?
@Alenanno
 
Uhm it's a tough call, but here are some thoughts.
I'm sure Arnold had good intentions about it, but it has some flaws. For example, it makes the rules less equally across the users. I'll explain: if a 30K user is suspended, you request the unban and ok, done. What if a 1K user is suspended? That user contributed less, less people will care... And he stays suspended. Now, what if the 30K user did something "worse" than the low-rep user?
Just a banal example.
No references to Ron, by the way. I was making a general example, reference-less.
(Also because Ron is 40K, if I'm not mistaken.)
@annav What are your thoughts?
 
3:47 PM
This should not be a court of law. It should be along tribal lines, imo. We do not seem to get through to non physicists that it is the physics we care about, not the person. A low rep transgressor would get the same support if the physics he/she brought to the site was valuable, no matter the bulk of responses
 
Reputation is a rough measurement of that, though.
 
@Alenanno Yes, Ron has high rep and he has earned it with hard physics questions
 
@annav Again, my example was not about Ron. :)
I personally have nothing against Ron.
He also came to two sites I moderate.
 
@Alenanno He carries a chip on the shoulder, something that happens with a lot of brilliant people. The assesment of Lubos in some comment is more or less on spot.
 
@annav What chip? If Ron, as everyone else, doesn't respect the rules in the sites I moderate, I'm going to let them know. If Ron, as everyone else, behaves properly, I'll be more than happy they come to my sites. Especially because we kind of have low visits...
 
3:54 PM
@Alenanno the thing is it did not happen on the main site, and the main site is penalized by this decision.
2
 
@annav I'm not a moderator here, and I was absent when everything happened (also for the Town Hall Chat), so I can't really answer that.
 
@Alenanno I am going to leave now, since Arnold is not here .bye
 
@annav Ok, have a nice day!
I wanted to say that in Greek but I'm still a newbie.
 
@Alenanno it is night in Greece where I am. six oclock in the evening and dark already
 
@annav I'm from Italy, we're neighbours! :P
Ah you're right.
 
3:58 PM
@have a nice evening too
 
Have a nice afternoon and evening. :)
 
4:22 PM
@RonMaimon Dear Ron please, keep quite and do nothing stupid! We are trying to g´help you and get you back but it will not pan out if you do something very unreasonable... You can come to TRF and ping me there, if you like.
 
4:53 PM
@annav: I am back.
 
5:20 PM
Hi Colin
 
@Manishearth: Manish, Are you there?
 
Yep
Whats up?
 
@Manishearth Your edit to this post
1
A: Which direction will the yoyo move?

JonIf you assume that there is no slippage, then it becomes a purely geometrical problem. $r$ = string rolling radius $R$ = ground rolling radius $s_{rs}$ = distance reel travels relative to string $s_{rg}$ = distance reel travels relative to ground $s_{sg}$ = distance string travels relative to g...

Perhaps I'm confirming to do a rollback
because the equation after its been applied with fraction,
I definitely can't see it
 
Oh right.. That review window was open when I suspended the comp, with my edits in it. I submitted, which may have overwritten your edits (I thought SE warns you about this..)
@CrazyBuddy Do the rollback, no prob :)
 
@Manishearth It does. But if your edit are more substantial, it overrides the other ones.
 
5:26 PM
@Manishearth Thank you...
 
@Alenanno It wasnt more substantial, equalish substantiality
 
@Manishearth I don't know then. :P
 
Indeed
@Manishearth: Are your exams over? Are you really on a vacation?
 
@Alenanno It's probably because websockets don't work behind my uni proxy. I could swear that "this post has been edited" still appeared in the orange slidy before the introduction of websockets, but it may have been removed
@CrazyBuddy Yep. How did your paper(s) go?
 
Lab exams are over... that day (during that ron & larian fight) ... :-)
@Manishearth End sem just yet to start - 4 days left over
 
5:31 PM
@CrazyBuddy Ah. My lab exams (Engineering Drawing and a physics lab) were over a month ago.
Good luck!
 
@Manishearth Thank you for that :-)
Maybe, I won't be active here for a month I think so
 
Anyways, No-one's gonna expect me I think so
just have to concentrate for my first sem
 
Yep :)
 
What courses does your colg. offer especially in physics fields..?
@Manishearth just a doubt though...
 
5:35 PM
@CrazyBuddy I'm in a physics stream. So I get basically math and physics for four years. One sec, I'll show you the list
@CrazyBuddy phy.iitb.ac.in/doku/lib/exe/fetch.php/curriculum/… Unfortunately this is the 2009 entrant curriculum. Approximately the same as the current one, with a few courses shuffled around/switched in/out
 
@Manishearth All our state colleges (even the frontiers) only offer Engineering & Medicine... As I hate Bio, I took aero. But, my dedication is towards Astrophysics.
I haven't seen astrophysics, quantum mechanics, or particle physics (even string theory)-offering colleges....
 
@CrazyBuddy Technically my stream is engineering as well.
 
I think its throughout our country :-)
 
@CrazyBuddy Re:astro yeah, I know :)
You can always study on your own. There may be some profs willing to guide you. Or, you have Physics.SE for your doubts (and chat for guidance) :D
@CrazyBuddy String theory? Whoa whoa.. That's not a UG topic. Probably not even a Master's level topic (not sure). PHD/Postdoc level.
@CrazyBuddy Secondly, you're only looking at engineering colleges. What about IISER?
 
@Manishearth Absolutely... I must agree that I had an overview to Astrophysics, SR & GR only through SE.
@Manishearth That was a joke. I don't wanna be a competition to Arnold or Lubos or our favourite Ron
:-)
 
5:44 PM
Particle physics is also not a UG topic. QM is, for any science-offering insti
 
@Manishearth By that, I specifically (somewhat ironically) mentioned, "Why aren't our colleges offering a specific field in Physics?"
 
Ah :P
 
They are giving an overview to all fields. Maybe thats why we're still low in research-level
But, not necessary for that
 
@CrazyBuddy Did you try for IITM?
 
I think I have already mentioned that I'm from a remote area. I just know about IIT only after I joined MIT (Woah, not that one...)
 
5:47 PM
@CrazyBuddy Oh right...
 
I have drastically developed once I arrived to this city
@Manishearth But, I'll try IIST (Trivandrum) after enjoying BE (just thought of trying)
 
@RonMaimon: Hey Ron, Welcome back
that was indeed a surprise though
@Manishearth: And, I'm also happy that a site is now going to be launched in area51. My field - Astrophysics :-)
 
@CrazyBuddy It probably won't be-- After Astro.SE got shut down, Physics.SE expanded its scope to include all Astronomy/Astrophysics (well, astrophysics was already there). Complete site subsets are allowed to graduate only in some cases.
So ask your questions here :)
 
@Manishearth No, I have just dropped asking questions (to the most)
which most users do after joining SE
 
5:55 PM
Ah
So answer over here. There are lots of astro qs, filter by them
 
Maybe, thats one of the reason we don't get research-level questions
 
There won't be "more" astro qs on the astro site, not for a while. There will be an initial upsurge, with ~14 questions per day. That will decline to ~1. Physics already has more astro qs per day
 
2
Q: On reviewing edits

Arnold NeumaierWhen reviewing edits there is text inviting to improve the edit: $~~~$ Approve, reject, or improve edits suggested by users. (less) Approve edits you know are correct Reject those you know are wrong Skip if you are not sure and want to go to the next suggested edit but I see buttons only for ...

 
@Manishearth Yeah... But, maybe if users require that. Its not completely a subset. Maybe we'd get a lot of users for asking observational astronomy -related questions over there
 
@CrazyBuddy We allow observational astro now
 
5:58 PM
@Manishearth Yes. But, No-one to ask...
 
That's my point. We made sure that it was a complete subset after it was closed
 
Maybe, a new site would encourage them for a while
 
@CrazyBuddy ?
Ah
We'll see :)
 
After the beta, we'd get it merged with Physics.SE
 
Maybe
 
5:59 PM
Anyway, thats the climax.
 
@CrazyBuddy What? Nah, if it passes commitment and beta, it deserves to be a separate site. I haven't heard of graduated sites being merged
 
And also another thing - Maybe users are quite a bit afraid of asking questions here...
:-)
@Manishearth No, It is perhaps difficult for it to survive throughout the beta...
If it doesn't, then the posts should get merged with Physics.SE
Not the site...
 
? You want to take away the questions and leave the site intact? Makes no sense. If you take all the questions, it's a merge
 
@Manishearth Oh... Its then indeed a merge
Ok, I think our chat session is over. Gotta get out of SE (or) I'm dead...
@Manishearth Nice time with you Manish. Thank you
 
@CrazyBuddy Yeah, STUDY!!!! :P
@CrazyBuddy You're welcome :)
 
6:11 PM
@Manishearth My graduate alma mater had a course called introduction to nuclear and particle methods which was a 3 unit laboratory and open to undergrads as well as graduate students. 'Course it was only offered every two or three years and of the two groups of six who went through it while I was in residence only one was an undergrad.
 
@dmckee Hmm, right...
@dmckee You took a physics major though, right? We're talking about engineering colleges in India.
 
And the upper division course introduction to modern physics covered the basic phenomonology of particle physics (nomenclature of particle groups, quantum numbers, which forces respect what and so on).
@Manishearth Yeah physics.
Now, particle physics theory was a strictly graduate affair.
 
@dmckee Ah, we had intro to modphy this sem. Some simple relativity and QM (particle in a box, h atom, all that)
@dmckee Exactly.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:33 PM
@Qmechanic What are you going to do regarding Ron's suspension as a moderator?
@CrazyBuddy What are you going to do regarding Ron's suspension as a moderator?
 
@drake Just a note, that won't ping Qmechanic. He needs to have been in this room recently
 
@ChrisGerig What are you going to do regarding Ron's suspension as a moderator?
@Manishearth Thank you for letting me know. You are also candidate, aren't you?
 
Yep
Chris won't be notified either
 
@Manishearth Are you thinking of doing anything?
 
@drake If I'm elected? I would look into the suspension (mod message history), and, if I feel that it is illegitimate, I shall work towards undoing it. However, due to the mod agreement, I cannot share any of the information therein. Nor can I unsuspend without talking to the other moderators/higher ups.
 
8:44 PM
@Manishearth You think that comments on answers like "this answer is stupid or totally wrong" should be allowed ?
When that comment is followed by reasons.
 
@drake Nope. You can have a comment "This answer is wrong.", preferably with an explanation. Constructive criticism is fine. Encouraged. I've had one or two such constructive comments from Ron and others on some of my posts. The "stupid" part is totally unnecessary. All criticism can be phrased in a constructive manner
But this would only elicit a mild warning and comment-edit from me.
Such comments can end up scaring users off the site.
 
@Manishearth But there are brilliant answer and stupid answers. Right?
 
@drake First, that may only be the opinion of the commenter. Second, I would say that there are "brilliant answers and bad answers", where "bad" encompasses "wrong", "misleading", and "not really helpful"
"stupid" is entirely unnecessary
 
@drake "stupid" characterizes a person, wrong and bad the anwer.
 
What it should not be tolerated is to say "drake is idiot" but one can say "drake's comment is stupid" before or after explaining why. That is not my style but I don't see why the latter must not be allowe.
 
8:49 PM
@annav Thank you :) Even if "stupid" is used explicitly to characterize an answer, it still has the potential for scaring off users
 
I want to remark that this is not my style.
@Manishearth Saying that an answer is misleading also has the potential for scaring off users.
 
Much less potential
 
Where is the frontier?
The point is to comment on answers, opinions, ideas, etc, but not on people.
 
I personally wouldn't mind if I was told that my answer was misleading when I was new to the site. I would have left if someone called it stupid.
 
I think tolerance of mistakes is important, for moderators also, for new users, if one does not want to scare them away. A user with some reputations is more robust.
 
8:56 PM
This is your case. I know many people who had left after reading "misleading"
 
@drake A lot more would leave if their answer was called stupid. THis is not a black-and-white situation. It's a spectrum
 
well everybody, it is my bedtime here, 11:00pm have a good time.
 
@annav Thanks for chiming in :)
Good night..
 
Good night.
@annav
I think one should protect the freedom of saying stupidities. I say a lot of them.
 
Why? There's no real need to.
Even I call stuff stupid a lot, but that's only with people I know well. On the Internet, it's always better to tone things down
 
8:59 PM
And again, I have never said some answer of comment is stupid.
 
kk :)
 
I think you are mixing up your style or personal taste —that I share— with the rules.
 
@drake: Unlike stupid, misleading is not rude at all, but characterizes a statement as counterproductive.. If someone is so sensitive to take this personal, they are not fit for a scientific discussion.
 
@drake I'm not--I'm saying that while some of us love using the word, it's not really the best choice to use it here. And yes, the rules forbid it :)
 
I agree, but one has to tolerate other behaviours as long as they are not personal attacks.
 
9:02 PM
and saying stupidities if not done on purpose is more tolerable than calling statements stupid.
 
@drake Well, you can tell me that. You can tell our active community that (our active community seems good enough to tolerate it anyway). BUT, you can't tell a new user that
 
Again: I have never used this word. I do not like that style.
 
Unless you keep a banner on account registration "Don't mind if people call your stuff stupid here, it's not personal". And that would just scare off more people
@drake Im not implying that
 
One should strive for (and promote) maximal civility, but one should tolerate some lack of it and keep measures against them in sensible proportion to the damage done by the measures themselves.
 
@drake I'm not referring to YOU when I use the word "you"
 
9:05 PM
And again: I totally agree that the freedom of saying stupidities has to be protected. But that is very different from qualify a comment as "stupid".
 
I'm using the impersonal "you". Basically means "one"
 
OK @Manishearth I won't take it personally
haha
 
In English grammar and in particular in casual English, generic you or indefinite you is the pronoun you in its use in referring to an unspecified person, as opposed to its use as the second person pronoun. In English The generic you is primarily used in informal speech and writing. In formal speech and writing, the pronoun one can be used instead: for example, the informal sentence "Brushing your teeth is healthy" can be expressed more formally as "Brushing one's teeth is healthy." Analogs in other languages Second-person pronouns and structures are often used generically in other l...
It's a habit of mine. A bad one at that. So easy to be misunderstood on the Internet :S
 
@Manishearth I ask you to be tolerant with opinions about opinions. And saying that an answer is stupid ( which is totally different from saying that the answerer is stupid) is an opinion (which may be even more stupid) about an opinion.
It is arguably an ugly way to say "that is nonsense" or "that is wrong". But one should tolerate such behaviour. In my opinion.
 
@drake When someone calls an answer wrong, that is an opinion as well (till it is confirmed). I'm tolerant about those. I will not tolerate comments that have the potential of scaring off users to that extent. And I appreciate your opinion on it, I'm just saying that my personal mod policy is against it.
Anyway, like I said, these are better handled with a comment edit and a small warning to the user
(unless said user does it too many times)
 
9:14 PM
Thank you for your time. I have to leave. Bye
 
@drake Cya, nice chatting with you :)
 
@Manishearth It has been a pleasure talking to you.
 
9:57 PM
I have a question on tagging something... Specifically if [tag]aerodynamics[/tag] questions should also be tagged [tag]fluid-dynamics[/tag] since aerodynamics is a subset of fluid-dynamics. Any thoughts on (what I see as duplicate) tagging when one tag is a subset of another?
Specifically this edit: physics.stackexchange.com/posts/46131/revisions triggered it
 
Hello
 
Hi
 
@tpg2114 Use both tags
 
@tpg2114 I'm not sure I got it: are they synonym tags or subsets?
 
Tags are for filtering, among other things
@Alenanno nah, subset
 
10:06 PM
@Manishearth Ah ok. :)
 
From the perspective of somebody in the field -- aerodynamics is a subset of fluid dynamics, kind of like everything on the site is a subset of physics :)
So tagging both seems redundant to me
 
@tpg2114 no
what if someone wanted to search for all fluid-D questions? Should they have to put all subset tags in the search? Or isn't it easier to put the superset tag
 
If you have a tag that is a subset of another, you should keep both. Not all questions about one is also about the other one.
Tags are hard to grasp. I still have some problems sometimes.
 
@Manishearth Makes sense, I think for me if I would search for one or the other depending on the type of thing I was looking for. But I also know the differences between them well enough to figure out what implications they have
 
1
Q: Adding collapsable fields to answers

tpg2114Let's say I have an answer to a question (like this one for example) where the explanation can have effectively two speeds: plain english, and very math heavy. I would like a way to do both at once, similar to the way Wikipedia hides these derivations or even something as simple as the "show more...

0
Q: how do we submit articles for physics.SE blog?

lurscherthe title says it all really. I know other SE sites are using the blog feature, but i don't understand yet what is the process for submission of articles. I don't see a physics blog site anywhere so i assume that needs to be deployed first.

 
10:10 PM
@tpg2114 If you're saying they can get confused, that's what tag wiki excerpts and tag wikis are for. You can edit the tag wiki to include explanations about how to use the tag (the wiki, not the excerpt).
There. :P
Hope that helps.
...buuuut by the lack of response it doesn't sound like what you were looking for? :P
 
Sorry, that's fine :)
I was digging through my textbooks to come up with more citations for that answer...
 
I'm impressed by the number of tags without excerpts. I have already suggested 8.
 
@Alenanno claps
I probably ought to do that as well
 
@Manishearth bows
 
@Alenanno slaps when his head is down
 
10:16 PM
@Manishearth Find yourself another job! That's my territory!
:P
@Manishearth lmao I shall not trust you.
 
I was getting disappointed with the lack of fluids/gas kinetics questions I could actually answer, I suppose it's time for me to work on some of the meta things instead :)
 
@Alenanno I have applied. However, if that doesn't work out, I fear I must take over your job :P
@tpg2114 There are always the easier questions
Plus you can participate by reading posts, voting, commenting, editing, etc :)
 
@Manishearth There's only so many homework-type questions I can answer though... I do spend a lot of time on the Review screen on SO
But I don't have enough rep here to do a lot of it
 
@Manishearth You better just approve my suggestions. U_U
@tpg2114 Little by little. :P
 
@Alenanno paws at ground, flares nostrils, snorts
 
10:22 PM
@Manishearth By the way, have you seen that Manishearth guy? I don't trust him, I hope he doesn't wi... Oh wait.
 
rofl
 
Wait brb
 
Unrelated other question -- is it okay to blockquote a paragraph from a book and cite it?
 
@tpg2114 Yep, BUT:
summarize it as well, and have some of your own info
answers which are just a link and a blockquote aren't really allowed
:)
 
The blockquote is a small section of the answer so far, don't worry! :)
 
10:25 PM
@tpg2114 Then use it ^.^
 
@tpg2114 In order to be safe, for copyright reasons, I also link the whole paper/book if available.
 
That's the best use of it... As an aid to the answer but not an answer itself
@Alenanno He's citing it
 
@Manishearth Yes. I know.
 
I've blockquoted webpages, books, and my own answers :)
Hey, @Jaydles, anything up?
 
@Manishearth I blockquote an excerpt and link the whole material too.
:P
That's what I meant.
I feel like it's the least I can do for someone else's work.
Hey @Jaydles
 
10:27 PM
@Alenanno kk. That's what citing means, right? Ok, maybe without the link, but you provide enough information so that the resource is seasily found
 
@Manishearth For what it's worth, if it was your book, I'd just steal from it. :P lol ...Ok, sorry, I'm torturing you tonight. I'm bored, I better finish tagging my Japanese list.
 
@Alenanno :P Have fun! :)
 
@tpg2114 on some other SE sites including citations is almost compulsory :-D
 
@Manishearth I'll still be here from time to time.
 
@Sklivvz I've gathered that from some of the ~flaming~ discussion going on around here lately...
 
10:30 PM
@Sklivvz "almost"... :P
 
citations are still optional - references are not (i.e. you can point to an article and that's it, it's still ok, however it makes it crap to check the reference...)
 
@Sklivvz Ah... Stupid me. I got confused. XD
 
@Alenanno I do my best to use similar words ;-)
 
@Sklivvz You forgot to add <shameless self plug>
:P
 
Indeed
 
11:08 PM
@Manishearth, @Alenanno, nope. Just checking in - I know it's been a rough couple of days in the community here, so I was just popping in to see how things were going.
 
@Jaydles Ah, thanks for that :)
 
@Manishearth, glad to. We're here if you need us.
 

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