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hippietrail
hippietrail
12:01 AM
Augenblick goes back to Middle High German (CE1050~CE1350) ougenblick and apparently there is an English word eyeblink though it's obviously not so common.
@MeNoTalk: If I use something that's supposed to work and it doesn't work or it sucks in some way, then I hate it no matter who made it. If a pattern emerges that many things sucking in similar ways originate from the same company, then the result may be hating that company.
 
 
7 hours later…
Bernhard
Bernhard
6:56 AM
Software by the market leader is obviously always attracting more negative attention as well
I mean, some guy over Unix.SE discovered this nasty bug in bash, which has been there since ever.
With Linux (Ubuntu) I always have struggles to get my printers to work, if they work at all
Also, I had a Wifi unit in my desktop, never were able to connect it to the network properly in Unix, even though it recognized it
Drivers are just shitty on Linux, while they work out of the box in Windows most often
Ok, for the wired conncection that I then put to my desktop, I had to install an additional driver for windows, at least I could download that by Wifi
Here's my personal frustration with Linux @hippietrail These things rarely work properly on Linux. If they work, it is with a lot of effort
 
Mark Mayo
Mark Mayo
7:09 AM
Whether you're the top software company, the 'most famous' celebrity, the President/PM or whatever, haters gonna hate, for some reason or another. A friend used to always buy Apple because it was edgy and not mainstream, then Apple became popular and now he eschews it, because it's popular. Go figure.
I seriously considered putting Windows on my Macbook Air. I like Windows, frankly. I know it inside and out, and so when I just want to do something, I know how to do it. I can debug network problems down to packet sniffing levels confortably, whereas on my macbook which is meant to 'just work' I frequently find myself stumbling through wifi settings trying to find out why it's not connecting. Neither is better than the other for me, but I know Windows and its faults, and how to deal with it.
There are aspects of Apple I don't like for phones - the locked down OS, etc. But I love their hardware. However, because of the software, I go Android. If Apple went open, I'd probably switch - I think the iPhones are really nice devices.
I went for my MacBook air simply because it met my requirements of a small device with power, ssd, and awesome battery life. Previous two were netbooks, but now they're not really making netbooks any more :(
I think I get why people mock Microsoft/Apple and so on, and it's fun to do so (laughs at idiots on George Street queuing for iPhones overnight) but to not use something just because it's Apple or MS or Google or whatever, meh, I need a better reason than that
With Skype, I don't know enough about the alleged backdoors etc, so for the moment it does what I need, and my parents know how to use it, so I'll use it. If hangouts gets better or develops a standalone desktop app, I may consider changing to that if it's smoother.
There are some companies I won't use again, but that's generally because I've been burnt by them in the past. Saying that, even then depending on the price I may consider it (eg Jetstar, RyanAir I'll keep going back to...sigh...)
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
7:33 AM
@MarkMayo totally true, I agree
@Bernhard drivers are other things are a pain in Linux..
 
Mark Mayo
Mark Mayo
And Linux has a great command line (bash) and I really find it great for development. MS commandline is a pain. Horses for courses, for sure.
Anyone want to join me for Camino de Santiago in April? It's something I'm mulling over doing.
We could make it a month-long Travel.SE meetup :D
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
8:05 AM
@MarkMayo Ever considered zsh?
I am comfortably with C++ development in Linux, now with my new employer, there was an option for a Fortran project in Windows :')
thinking outside of the comfort zone
 
 
1 hour later…
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
9:18 AM
Fortran!!! @Bernhard
must be some legacy app
I am not a pro programmer.. but I really find MS Visual Studio to be so damn good..
I have done some other programming not related to MS, like PHP, some Java, some C++.. i just like C#..
.NET in general
I really want to try swift... but i got no mac..
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
@MeNoTalk Fortran 2003 is pretty fancy
compare to 77 ;)
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
10:01 AM
@Bernhard what is it for mainly?
I am sure not for games or webapps :D
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
10:26 AM
@MeNoTalk Scientific software
:)
Fortran is actually pretty common in the scientific community
historic reasons ftw
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
I thought it is for accounting apps
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
I don't know about that
 
 
1 hour later…
Mark Mayo
Mark Mayo
11:56 AM
@Bernhard it's just an extended feature set of bash, basically, isn't it? I believe I played with it briefly, but wouldn't go out of my way to install it ;)
Speaking of legacy, the number of my immediate colleagues at work who are coding in Cobol scares me ;)
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
12:11 PM
@MarkMayo did you try the MS powershell?
 
Mark Mayo
Mark Mayo
12:28 PM
yeah I use it a bit at work, we have some scripts for setting environments, host names etc
 
Rory Alsop
Rory Alsop
@hippietrail the Middle High German appears to have been first by a long way :-)
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
12:57 PM
@Bernhard: But that doesn't explain everything, printing being a prime example. Most of the worst aspects of Linux are things that Apple implemented a new way from scratch when they brought out an OS based on Unix
(even though OSX is not based on Linux but BSD some of the problems were common to Unices, such as X Windows and printing)
@Bernhard: quite often with drivers not working in Linux it's because evil companies won't allow access to their programming docs. Since I want to avoid such companies for the same reasons I want to avoid MS and Apple then it's worth it for me to make sure I have hardware from non evil companies
@MarkMayo: "Haters" are always gonna hate. But most people are not "haters" yet have a few things they hate. So just because something is hated doesn't mean every person doing the hating is some kind of irrational "hater". There's lots of legitimate reasons to hate one thing or another. But hating habitually for not good reason is what a "hater" does.
@MarkMayo: but you're reason re openness are pretty much the same as mine. I also opt for Windows out of pragmatic reasons like better support for fonts for very exotic languages. I also used to feel that I really knew windows. But with so many things they add then sometimes change their mind about and leave hanging I no longer feel that way. Like Silverlight. Like .NET. Like the silly Metro apps that require a whole second version of the app, etc.
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
@MarkMayo Which one do you want to do? The last 600-700 km in Spain?
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
By the way netbooks didn't entirely die out but they're still lumbered with artificial MS-enforced hardware limitations. ASUS and other companies have recently released new netbooks after having stopped a couple of years ago, apparently since tablet sales have plateaued or something ...
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
@MeNoTalk No FORTRAN is almost only used for engineering/scientific computing
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
powershell is horrors. one of ms's overengineered efforts.
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
COBOL is the equivalent language for accounting and business
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:09 PM
isn't fortran also used for maths computing? i know that crosses over a lot with engineering and scientific, but i assume not only
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
(equivalent in the sense that it's a legacy language with some very old-fashioned quirks in the syntax but is still used in many places)
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
when i want a legacy language with some ver old-fashioned quirks in the syntax, i choose assembler (-:
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
Just read your earlier posts, I guess Wikipedia is wrong about von Zesen and Augenblick, then
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i heard from a few people that compostela has been overrun ever since paolo coelho wrote about it. a lot of people lament about how it used to be obscure and forgotten.
@Relaxed: it could be wikipedia wrong, or wiktionary wrong. a solid reference is needed to call it either way.
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
It's become more popular over the years
Not sure if it's all down to Coelho
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:14 PM
i requested translations for "moment" is a bunch of other less well known germanic languages on wiktionary
it's just what i read
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
Obviously, I would expect people who did it earlier to complain how it's all different now
But the people who do it today are usually very positive about the experience
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
eww positive people d-;
well it's Duden that says Augenblick comes from MHG so that's good enough for me (-:
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i started to read the coelho book years ago and quit after a couple of chapters. but i don't think he's much of a writer.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
@Relaxed I will never use fortran nor cobol.. I am no engineer and no accountant..
but nice to know..
I remember using logo long long time ago..
it was for drawing lines and stuff
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
1:28 PM
Logo is quite different
LISP-based I think
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
logo was a fun toy language but at that time i could do a lot more with basic and machine language
 
Relaxed
Relaxed
They use to teach it in primary school in France
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
yes I know it was a toy language
first language I did was Clipper..
it had a dBase III syntax
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
sounds horrid
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
I also did turbo C... and C++.. few variations..
the one I played with the most was C++ builder from Borland...
its always been a hobby.. weird hobby..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:31 PM
i was a fan of c++ builder
C i liked and I liked C++ in the early days but gave up liking it
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
what I tried and never liked is MFC..
too damn complicated...
so I started VB6.. played a lot with that...
I never knew any flight attendant who has programming as a hobby..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
MFC is puke. C++ Builder tried to do something similar that wasn't puke and did so.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
agree
but MFC is like the native thing for windows..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
no. WinAPI is the native thing for windows
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
if I am not mistaken even office is done with MFC...
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:37 PM
though they messed that up more and more since .NET came on the scene
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
yes of course winAPI is the native.. but the closest to a high level language was MFC..
.NET is the best thing ever..
says the flight attendant..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i sincerely doubt any of MS's own big apps use MFC - they're not that dumb. Plus word is that MS's divisions absolutely hate each other and refuse to use each other's stuff.
.NET is the most tied to a single platform ever d-:
despite miguel's efforts
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
my friend... if you ever tried .NET + linq + EF.. you can do magic in no time..
this platform is an example..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
good on MS for making a better Java but not open enough for me.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
except it uses Line-SQL not EF..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:39 PM
no point. it's windows only and i won't tie myself to windows even though i choose to use it for now.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
I think after MS lost J++ case, they had to come up with a better thing... then .NET came..
not sure if I am correct..
when you do ASP.NET, it does not matter..
ASP.NET is powerful with many ready things.. it just makes life easier..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
that's pretty much the case. i kind of saw that coming. there were enough reasons to hate Java back then... and more reasons to hate it now that an evil company owns it.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
I managed to make a full mobile version of my site in hours...
with Master pages and other lovely features..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
cleopatra was killed by an ASP
turning off the computer makes life easier.
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
@MeNoTalk Shouldn;t you do that with put CSS?
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
1:42 PM
@Bernhard yes... true..
but, a master page gave me more control...
all I needed to do is change the master page during page preInit event...
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
you're speaking a bizarre dialect
i like to write my web pages in web page languages
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
because CSS only solution is not that good.. you will need to change all the header and footer and some other elements.. Master pages did it.. two master pages one for desktop and one for mobile..
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
@MarkMayo zsh indeed has an extended set of features, but I am also sticking to bash. In the end they seem to be porting zsh-features into bash anyhow
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
@hippietrail the separation of code and html is asp.net, plus the MVC, is the real deal..
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
@MeNoTalk With a proper designed webpage, you only need CSS, but my knowledge is from 2008, so it might be different by now :p
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
1:45 PM
many languages do that.. like ruby.. but ASP.NET is my choice..
says the flight attendant again :D
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
don't talk yourself down @MeNoTalk !
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
not at all...
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
@MeNoTalk: ick
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
but my knowledge is limited...
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i totally suck at CSS. i get it in principle but in practice it's a black art.
 
Bernhard
Bernhard
1:46 PM
everyone's knowledge is limited ;)
3
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
I used to suck at CSS.. but one webpage made me really love it and understand it good..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
if you make clean code you can get the design done by somebody really good at CSS and other designish stuffs
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
yes..
thie Jim guy does it for SE sites.. right? he is pretty good
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
Jin I think. they probably have a few people but I know Jin did this one.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
yes.. he did a really good job
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
1:53 PM
Blog - Stack Exchange: Our Designer in Residence: Jin Yang
Jeff Atwood on July 01, 2010

I’m pleased to announce we now have a full-time, bona fide designer on our team: Jin Yang.

I worked with Jin a bit in constructing the Super User design last year, but he was absolutely instrumental in putting together our amazing Area 51 design and the equally impressive ‘sketchy’ design for the current Web Applications site proposal private beta.

(click through for fuller sized screenshots)

update: now in public beta, visit webapps.stackexchange.com to see the design live!

If you committed to Web Apps, you should be on the private beta whitelist to visit the site and see the de …

 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
damn
I just wanted to order the new Microsoft Band, but it is out of stock!!!! its out for two days only..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
is it a boy band?
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
:D
I forgot you hate gadgets..
ok, let me put it in a way you would know..
it is a small laptop, that you can wear on your wrist :D
with a touch screen :D :D
and u know I am kidding, so no need to flag it :D
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i used to like gadgets but now i'm too busy staring at my swipey toy and bumping into things while i'm walking to notice gadgets
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
2:09 PM
true
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i think my revulsion for gadgets began back in the dumbphone era when i was a programmer at a startup and one day all the guys were crowded around a computer saying "ooh wow look at that one" and stuff. I thought there were looking at porn at work.
They were looking at new dumbphones on the Internet \-:
2
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
hahahahahaha
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
gadgets for nerds were cool. gadgets for normal people were umm not.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
normal people usually use it for social media..
I bought my dad a smartphone (android) which can have two sim cards..
he sold it and bought two cheap nokia phones...
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
social media is such a cringeworthy gadget too.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
2:15 PM
I liked life before mobile phones... really.. I always think about that.. it was nice..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
but just using social media as a kind of improve email i can cope with. all the normal people shit on it makes me feel ill.
 
MeNoTalk
MeNoTalk
it was also nice to get lost and pull over and put the paper map on the hood and find your way...
now, u never get lost..
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
yep that's one reason i don't buy a smartphone even though for me the killer app is realtime gps mapping.
people who never get lost can't possibly know where they are
 
 
1 hour later…
Bernhard
Bernhard
3:41 PM
thanks guys, for the outspoken badge :)
 
 
2 hours later…
pnuts
pnuts
5:14 PM
@CGCampbell In a few minutes.
 
CGCampbell
CGCampbell
The answer with the 5 upvotes does not discuss the fact personally I think is more problematic, which was covered in the answer you commented on: the person in the question in fact having ties TO the country
ok
I'll wait :D
 
pnuts
pnuts
5:29 PM
@CGCampbell Sorry, was on the 'phone and then needed to read the rest of the reapplying for tourist visa to UK after rejection. Agree that a bank account at Lloyds UK (more fool her) could be pretty damning.
But then "Is it ok to buy ticket before getting visa?" is quite a foolish question.
 
CGCampbell
CGCampbell
@pnuts yeah, I see that person not getting a visa... was your problem with the answer you commented on only that it only covered just one of the several issues?
 
pnuts
pnuts
I thought (still do!) it does not cover either. Vaguely useful so no problem as a Comment however.
 
CGCampbell
CGCampbell
@pnuts ok, I just wanted your thoughts, to improve my own answering, and didn't want to tie up comments with chat. Thanks for your few minutes
 
pnuts
pnuts
@CGCampbell You are welcome - but be wary of anything I say (i) it might not be meant very seriously and (ii) I claim to know nothing (other than some ability to google - seemingly totally beyond the ability or bother of most questioners here).
 

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