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4:24 AM
@sammygerbil how do you get 3 in equation of normal
@sammygerbil we are not given coefficient of restitution . So we cannot comment
 
Which question?
 
first line = 2nd question
second line =1st question
 
Coefficient of restitution is 1. The string is elastic (but very stiff).
Solution for falling chain is explained in the link.
 
4:40 AM
okay I got it second question . Actually the file is not downloading
@sammygerbil so it will rebound
 
Oh you are thinking of the collision with the ground? No we do not know the COR for that "so we cannot comment".
So there is no solution? Only the answer 1.25m?
 
yes
 
I do not understand why mass B is "gently" lifted up to the pulley. Why "gently"?
 
while lifting up there will be no impulse
 
Also why is mass B "held" at the position shown? They are the same weight so there is no tendency to move if they are released from the position shown.
While B is lifted up the string is not taut so there is no impulse via the string.
 
5:02 AM
Sorry , I am confused
should I ask in jee preparation rrom
I have asked it there
 
Yes. It it good to get other views on the problem.
 
Anonymous
5:17 AM
@Koolman You lift up the block. Potential energy is stored. Leave it. It attains a velocity $v$ just before string becomes taut. Apply momentum conservation to find common velocity of both the blocks.
 
Anonymous
Then you see common accn is $0$
 
I think the problem is like 2 equal masses m on a frictionless surface, attached by a string, initially loose. I think gravity makes no difference. B is given an impulse mv, when the string becomes taut there is an elastic collision (ie transfer of momentum via the string). B stops, A moves towards B with speed v. They collide again (this time directly), A stops and B moves with speed v. The system continues "bouncing" indefinitely.
So in Q1 I think the masses continue moving (A up, B down) until B hits the ground or A hits the pulley.
 
Anonymous
I think $A$ will have an upward projectile like motion after $B$ touches ground the first time. @sammygerbil
 
Anonymous
So maximum height will be just $1 + \frac{v^2}{2g}$
 
Anonymous
@Koolman What is the answer?
 
5:24 AM
1.25 m
 
Anonymous
Yes, I got 1.25 m
 
Anonymous
:)
 
Anonymous
See the logic which I explained
 
Anonymous
It is just a projectile problem.
 
Anonymous
@Koolman
 
5:25 AM
@blue What is your solution?
 
@blue $v=\sqrt {2g}$
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil Common velocity after string becomes taut is $\sqrt{5}$. So $1+\frac{5}{2(g)}$ gives the answer.
 
Anonymous
@Koolman No.
 
Anonymous
Divide it by $2$
 
ohh
 
5:27 AM
There is no common velocity. Strings behave like springs - they are elastic.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil In strings, there is an impulse exerted on both the blocks due to which they start moving with a common velocity. You could use impulse momentum equations or momentum conservation.
 
Anonymous
And strings are not elastic.
 
Anonymous
(unless mentioned)
 
Anonymous
The problem says that the string is "inextensible"
 
See my answer to physics.stackexchange.com/q/309785 and also the link in my answer which makes reference to published articles in Applied Mathematics. Being elastic is not incompatible with being inextensible.
 
Anonymous
5:36 AM
@sammygerbil "Elastic" means "stretchable/extensible" in most problems. revisionmaths.com/advanced-level-maths-revision/mechanics/…. Here inelastic=rigid. "Real strings do not behave like this."...this problem doesn't refer to "real strings"
 
Anonymous
If they do not move with a common velocity the inelastic/inextensible string either will tear or won't remain taut
 
"Elastic" has (at least) two meanings in physics : (1) extensible, (2) conserving energy (as in collisions).
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil Right. Here we are using the former.
 
I am using the latter because there is a "collision" via the string. This collision conserves energy.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil "collision" via string? What? Energy isn't conserved here!!!
 
Anonymous
5:40 AM
In such problems energy is never conserved
 
Well if that is what you have been taught for the examination, use that. It gives you the answer which the examiner wants. But it is not what happens with real strings.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil I don't know why you are talking about springs...
 
Anonymous
Springs are stretchable
 
typo
 
Anonymous
Strings may or may not be
 
Anonymous
5:44 AM
Strings may be rigid
 
Anonymous
Here, tension does some work which permanently deforms the string (a bit)
 
Anonymous
So energy cannot be conserved in such cases
 
Are you talking about real strings? Or strings used in the exercises which are given to you?
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil I'm talking about rigid(inextensible) strings.
 
Anonymous
Which is the one in the problem
 
Anonymous
5:47 AM
Real strings are always a bit stretchable...
 
As I said, inextensible is not incompatible with being "elastic" (ie conserving energy) in the limit of an infinite spring constant.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil You're using a different definition of "elastic"...
 
Anonymous
It's a semantics problem...
 
I'm using the definition appropriate for collision problems, but also for all deformable bodies : an elastic deformation returns all of the work you put in.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil Maybe we should ask a question regarding this on the main site...
 
Anonymous
5:51 AM
I'm sure its just a minor semantics problem and nothing else...
 
does inextensible = elastic
 
Anonymous
@Koolman Opposite.
 
Anonymous
There are two ways to define it
 
in this question it is inextensible not elastic
 
Anonymous
@Koolman Here inextensible=inelastic string (I'm not using the collisions lingo)
 
5:53 AM
No, I don't think it is semantic. Unless you are saying that you have been taught to model strings as completely inelastic, we are disagreeing about how real strings behave.
 
Anonymous
@sammygerbil We are talking about ideal strings...
 
Anonymous
Yes, real strings don't behave like that
 
@sammygerbil we have been taught ideal string = inelastic = inextensible
And in these question we assume the string to be ideal
unless it is specified
 
@Koolman Yes that is what I thought : we are using different definitions of an "ideal" string. My definition includes conserving energy.
 
in JEE Preparation, 12 mins ago, by blue
@MadhuchhandaMandal Because energy isn't conserved.
 
6:19 AM
 
6:43 AM
@Koolman What is your difficulty?
 
not getting answer from this
 
I am not sure that I want to tackle the whole of this question. Unlike the last two it is unnecessarily complicated. I think you do know all the relevant ideas and formulas. EG en.wikipedia.org/wiki/….
 
$c=\sqrt {\frac{T}{\mu}}$ or $c=\sqrt {\gamma \frac{P}{\rho}}$
 
 
9 hours later…
3:52 PM
@sammygerbil and in this what is the use that tension is reduced
 
 
4 hours later…
7:30 PM
@Koolman You have enough information to calculate the frequency f of the organ pipe. The frequency of the string is f +/- 5. We don't know if is + or -. When tension in the wire is reduced this lowers its frequency. There are fewer beats, so this makes the frequency of the wire closer to f. This tells you which it is : + or -.
 
@sammygerbil what is the mistake in my try
I think in second case that is of organ pipe I will use $c=\sqrt {\gamma \frac{P}{\rho}}$
 
7:53 PM
Oh I have taken wrong lambda for f1 @sammygerbil
it would be 2
 
8:04 PM
$f2=(9/10)\sqrt{\rho RT/M}$
as you said f2-f1 =5
 

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