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5:25 AM
@Swan .
 
5:55 AM
@Swan It looks as though the other students have answered you. If there is still anything you're unclear about ping me.
@mechanist In fact no energy is lost in this process and it is reversible.
Ping me if you want to discuss it.
 
Sir, @JohnRennie this was my doubt yesterday but now that I think about it Lenz's law only slows it down and doesnt stop it altogether. And if the magnetic field is large enough then we can see that the acceleration would tend to zero. Is that correct sir?
18 hours ago, by Swan
I was solving this question and the acceleration comes out to be a constant. But from my rudimentary understanding of Lenz's Law the wire should stop accelerating after a while and just come to a halt to resist any change in flux. And thus, acceleration should be a variable which tends to zero after some amount of time. This is what I'm thinking intuitively but it's not matching the result. Where am I going wrong?
@JohnRennie That's what I was going to ask after seeing @KavinIshwaran's solution
 
What's happening is that when a current flows in the loop that current generates a field that opposes the external field.
We get simple harmonic motion.
The equilibrium point is when the capacitor is discharged and the wire has its maximum velocity. Then the EMF in the loop starts charging the capacitor and the capacitor potential opposes the EMF induced in the loop.
 
6:12 AM
Sir @JohnRennie , I checked my notes again and it does say that when you charge a capacitor there would be a loss even if you take a superconductor. The loss would be in the form of electromagnetic pulse.
The only mistake that I can see in the derivation is that while deriving the work of the battery (Cε^2) we assume that the battery will have a constant emf but the emf of the battery will change as we charge the capacitor.
Could there be a reason why my notes make that assumption and say the loss is accounted by EMP?
 
6:38 AM
@Swan This will take some time to discuss.
If you're around I'm happy to try and discuss it, though I'm in the middle of answering another question right now.
 
7:05 AM
@JohnRennie Sir, I'm around. We can discuss it now or can do it tomorrow. Whichever work
*Whichever way works better for u
 
Hi
Let me start with an analogy:
 
Sure
 
Suppose we have a relaxed spring hanging vertically, and we suddenly attach a mass 𝑚 to it and let go.
We can easily find the equilibrium extension 𝑥 of the spring because it's just given by:
mg = kx
Yes?
 
Yeah
 
Now lets find the energy of the equilibrium state.
The change in gravitational PE is -mgx and the change in the elastic energy of the spring is ¹⁄₂kx².
So the total change is the sum of these. And we expect the total change to be zero because energy is conserved so the total energy cannot have changed. Yes?
 
7:11 AM
Yup
But this gives the value of x=2mg/k which is twice that of what we would have gotten from the force equation?
 
Correct!
So we have a problem. How come energy seems to have disappeared when we compare the initial and equilibrium states?
Can you see why this is?
 
Wait. Let me think for a sec
The apparently lost energy is stored in the spring?
 
No, it's because if we drop the mass as I described then when the mass reaches x = mg/k it is moving i.e. it has a KE.
 
Oh ofc ofc
 
We would never reach the state where the mass is motionless at x = mg/k because it would always be oscillating.
The only way we could get to the motionless state is if there is some kind of friction to bring the mass to a halt.
Yes?
 
7:16 AM
Yup
 
Now let's see how my analogy applies to a battery and a capacitor.
At time zero we connect the battery to the uncharged capacitor and the capacitor starts to charge. This time the equilibrium state is when the capacitor voltage V equals the battery EMF E:
E = V = Q/C
OK so far?
 
Yeah
 
But electrons have a mass so they have inertia.
When the capacitor starts charging the battery is accelerating the electrons in the wire, so when we get to the equilibrium state the electrons have a momentum that keeps them moving past the equilibrium state.
It's like the spring. If we have a truly ideal battery, wire and capacitor then the current would not stop flowing at the equilibrium state. It would keep flowing at charge the capacitor to Q = 2CE, just like the spring extends to 2mg/k.
Then the current would stop and start flowing in the reverse direction i.e. charge would now be flowing off the capacitor and charging the battery.
The result is that in an ideal system the current would never settle to zero. It would just keep oscillating forever.
 
And the cycle would repeat
 
Does this make sense so far?
 
7:23 AM
Yeah
 
@Swan Yes
The only way the current would ever settle at zero is if there is some resistance to dissipate the KE of the electrons flowing along the wire.
And if there is any resistance, no matter how small, you'll find half the energy is dissipated in the resistance just like in the spring half the energy is lost to friction.
The size of the resistance just affects how fast the energy is lost i.e. how quickly the current decreases to zero.
 
Makes sense. Just wondering why my notes would make any mention of electromagnetic pulse at all. EMP is not even in our syllabus
 
The energy isn't usually lost as EM waves.
All real systems have a resistance and that dissipates the energy as heat.
 
EMP was mentioned in the context of a superconductor
The usual loss will be in the form of heat (i^2Rdt) ofc
 
Well even if the resistance was zero (which it is in a superconductor) oscillating electrons do radiate energy as EM. That's exactly what a radio transmitter does.
So if you could construct a superconducting circuit like this it wouldn't oscillate forever - it would eventually radiate away the energy as radio waves.
 
7:33 AM
And the final state would be the same as a conductor with a resistance even in the superconductor after all the energy is radiated away?
 
Correct.
 
Thank you so so much!! You are a godsend to me :)
 
It doesn't matter how the energy is lost. The lost energy is always equal to the work done by the battery minus the equilibrium state energy, and the energy lost is always a half of the work done.
@Swan It took me a long time to get this as a student, so I'm really keen to help new students understand it!
 
@JohnRennie : And you are doing a great job at it sir
 
Thanks :-)
 
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