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1:05 AM
@Mechanicalsnail Yes, that is the etymology. But it is now part of all 形容動詞 and hence the inflection of them. Consider the inflections of regular 形容詞. In a recent post, I discussed -nai: nakaro (< nakara), naku, nai, nakere. The etymology is -nak + the verb ar- with the verb itself conjugating. Again, that is the etymology, but in general people will assume it to be part of the inflection of 形容詞.
But depending on your needs, you could argue that both 形容詞 and 形容動詞 lack these inflections on etymological grounds. Both positions have their merits. It is practicality vs. etymology.
 
@Dono It's not about etymology. The point is that in the modern language, na and da act like independent words, whereas -i, -u, and -ru act like inflectional suffixes.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:24 AM
hey all
:)
I keep hearing what I think is あいからず...is that really あしからず because that's what google translate is insinuating and i think it's too late to really think about it with my brain...
 
@silvermaple 相変わらず?
 
3:43 AM
oh, you're so smart
I knew i had seen thta before
 
I find it almost impossible to pronounce correctly... so I dwell on it regularly :/
 
but google wasn't spiting out the right kanji, becuase i'm deaf apparently
^^
 
The only thing I really like about this whole "being a moderator" thing, I can edit my messages in chat without a time-limit
Yay for less typos in the permanent record!
of course... now I have no excuse at all :(
 
Haha!
 
Anonymous
4:09 AM
I noticed that!
 
Anonymous
Mechanical Snail edited one of his old messages that pinged me and my browser crashed. :-D
 
Anonymous
Tomorrow I am going to put together a new computer, though.
 
Anonymous
(This is my um, three computers ago computer, for various computer-breaking-related sadness reasons.)
 
3? why do you keep breaking them?
 
Anonymous
Well, for various definitions of break... I keep having hard drives fail.
 
Anonymous
4:11 AM
The power supply died in my dev box, I think.
 
Anonymous
(Not sure why, exactly. There was a power outage for about an hour, and when the power came back, everything else was fine.)
 
Anonymous
And I use different computers for different things, usually, so ...
 
Anonymous
Honestly, I don't know how I manage to break so much stuff. At least some of the time it's not my fault, I think...
 
Anonymous
I wish hard drives didn't die so often.
 
well, it's bedtime for me, I'll see everyone around =^.^=
 
Anonymous
4:14 AM
Have a good night!
 
you too!
 
It's been years since I've had a hard disk fail
At this point, I think they're afraid of me
 
Anonymous
Ha
 
Anonymous
8:43 AM
I want to ask a question about how equal in length mora really are.
 
Anonymous
I don't think I will, though, because I can't seem to write one very well.
 
Anonymous
This answer touches on the subject: japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/6966/…
 
It's going to be difficult unless you record sound files
 
Anonymous
Analyzing sound files is hard.
 
I got startled because I forgot I had the cat cam open on another tab, and someone knocked something over and made a noise haha
 
Anonymous
8:46 AM
Hehe!
 
The "length of mora" question sounds like the "apparent loudness of different pitch" problem
 
Anonymous
Apparent loudness of different pitch, like Fletcher-Munson?
 
Yup
 
Anonymous
That's a difficult problem in part because it depends on the biology of the particular listener, though you can come up with curves which approximate across populations
 
Anonymous
For example, people with NIHL tend to have a notch around 4kHz, but it could be significantly off from that depending on the actual physical structure of their ear
 
8:49 AM
For equal-length contours of morae it would be how people perceive time difference
 
Anonymous
(Though, that's sort of Fletcher-Munson in reverse--the reason for the notch in the first place is that that's where they're most sensitive. But you have to take that into account to calculate true loudness for that listener)
 
Anonymous
So, yeah, difficult problem.
 
Anonymous
As I understand it there's no one fixed methodology for trying to mark where segments begin or end... I don't know a lot about the subject.
 
The loudness threshold so that the brain perceives a "start" point in time for the mora, and the threshold where it gets soft enough that the brain perceives an "end" point in time.
 
Anonymous
I read a warning on Language Log once
 
Anonymous
8:51 AM
"I've avoided two critical questions here: how to divide a phonetic transcription into syllables, and how to align a phonetic transcription with the stream of sound. Depending on the answers, the concept “syllable duration” , applied to the same recording, will yield somewhat different experimental measurements; and therefore numbers and graphs are hard to interpret in the absence of well-defined standards for such annotation, which I haven’t provided.
 
Anonymous
So take my numbers and graphs as an example of how I claim such experiments are going to come out, and feel free to produce your own –though if we wanted to get serious about this, we should publish our annotation manuals, our audio recordings, and our raw segmentations." from languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=126
 
Anonymous
It made me think, "I don't know what I'm doing. I probably won't end up with very good results if I start trying to figure this out on my own."
 
Well, we could just throw the question out there and wait I suppose
 
Anonymous
Hehe. It's silly, but I'm afraid to ask. I don't feel like my questions have been very good lately, so I'm trying not to ask something unless I think I've done a better job with it. That's why I said I probably won't ask right now...
 
Anonymous
I don't want to bug people.
 
Anonymous
8:56 AM
@Flaw In music, there's a similar problem. Where do you define the beginning of a note? If you have a recording, it's probably not at the beginning of the waveform. It might not be the peak of the initial transient. (It might not have a transient.)
 
Anonymous
But you can perceive where the note begins
 
Anonymous
It's hard to teach a computer to do the same thing.
 
The difference between physical evidence and human experience.
Also the time it takes for a person to respond
 
Anonymous
I came up with another question. "What's ど近眼? It looks like an emphatic version of 近眼, but it's not in any of my dictionaries." I figured it out, though. I looked up ど :-)
 
Anonymous
I'm a little curious about ど, though. I don't think 大辞林 and edict quite match up
 
Anonymous
9:04 AM
Huh. That entry in edict got updated recently.
 
Anonymous
I'm curious about whether it's 関西弁
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
It sounds like it's saying sense #2 is 関西弁, and I think in ど近眼 it's sense #1, but I'm not totally sure
 
Anonymous
Edict was recently updated to remove the (ksb:) marker from the entry. (In edict, ksb modified the sense corresponding to sense #1 in 大辞林, not sense #2)
 
Anonymous
I might turn one or both of those into actual questions some other time.
 
9:19 AM
I think we have a question about ど somewhere
 
Anonymous
Oh, neat! Thanks.
 

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