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3:21 AM
@SethJ Maybe you should do pesach/chametz as separate sets of questions.
3:52 AM
@double aa For my Kashering questions? Nah. They're more general than that; I'm just trying to get the strictest (mainstream) answer.
Btw, have you ever noticed that a watched Kedeirah never Roseachs?
4:10 AM
4:52 AM
@jin are you around?
46 pages
I've emailed this to Jin for final cosmetic touches, but will a community member please take it (in parallel, if necessary) and proofread it?
I'm done for now; returning to my life. One way or the other, let's get this thing published by COB Thursday (~17 hours from now).
To clarify: Please treat the above links as drafts. Don't publish them as-is.
5:53 AM
@IsaacMoses I've made a few small changes and uploaded to dropbox.com/s/262hsus47v5n4sz/Hagada-Mi_Yodeya.docx.
I don't recall all the changes, but at least two were adding space between adjacent words, and one was changing the hyphen-minus (or whatever it was) in the first line to whatever sort of dash had been used in the second line (copy-pasted it to the first line).
I've never used dropbox before. If I delete the file now from my computer (and am signed in, or sign in, to dropbox), will dropbox remove it from the Web also?
@msh210 thanks. I can't look at it right now, but I trust that your changes are improvements. @jin, see above.
re dropbox: dunno. I just made an aount, skipped the client, and uploaded via the web
@IsaacMoses Oh, if I'd seen one can do that I'd 'a' done it that way. But that does imply I can uninstall the client and delete the file without risk to the Web copy, so thanks for the info.
6:22 AM
Grrr in my answer on page 18 I don't capitalize 'his' referring to God.
It's my fault though. Same in the original.
Okay. @Jin @IsaacMoses. I've made a few more changes (Word, PDF), including deorphaning the last word of the English subtitle, and now I think I'm done. Obviously others should look at it also.
@DoubleAA Not everyone does. No big deal. But by all means edit it.
@msh210 Mentioning it here seems more reasonable than everyone reuploading a document with 1 or 2 changes. Let's do a bunch at once.
Also, a missing space in Alex's answer on page 10
@DoubleAA I agree it makes more sense but worry that the changes will be forgotten before they're effected. Anyway, I must sleep. Good night, @DoubleAA, all.
@msh210 I'll pin them.
ALL: Post corrections here in chat, and ask a mod to pin them.
7:15 AM
hi everyone
2 hours later…
9:05 AM
@IsaacMoses I received the files you emailed. Excellent job formatting! I know it must've been a tedius!
I honestly don't have any design improvements since the content section is formatted so nicely. I thought about adding the floral pattern on the cover page, below the text and the logo. but that effect would look the best if the doc is printed with full bleed for the cover page. but this isn't too feasible to do on personal printers so it may come out not as nice as intended.
@IsaacMoses if you(and others) have any graphic design ideas please let me know. I think the doc looks very nice and professional as it is.
4 hours later…
12:42 PM
@jin, thanks! I'll be afk for most of today, but will be back around 4 CDT
1:03 PM
We recently undeleted this question in response to requests. Undeleting didn't bump it and it's not on the front page, so I just wanted to let the folks who made those requests know that it's there now.
@MonicaCellio Thanks. I had not seen that it was undeleted. Do you have "Community" privileges to bump it?
1:38 PM
@SethJ I'm not aware of any special mod powers for bumping, only the usual ones (edits, answers). That's why I mentioned it here instead. As soon as anybody acts on it in a bumpable way it'll be on the front page again.
Anybody -- apparently Dropbox is blocked for me; can anybody email me the PDF? (I'll give you an address if you don't have it already.) Thanks!
2:05 PM
Someone paged me?
@SethJ Hi. I was looking for someone to email the PDF to me and you were here at the time. Is that something you could do? Dropbox is blocked for me. :-(
(I knew I should have brought my tablet in, so I could tether to my phone for a connection... ah, technology.)
@MonicaCellio Potentially. I'm getting confused, though, by the links. Are all the links to the same file with latest updates, or have different versions been uploaded, and in that case, which link do I need to download?
@SethJ It looks like this is the latest version (based on the discussion here). That includes both Word and PDF; I'd like the PDF. Thanks! (Do you need my email address? I can never remember who has it already.)
@MonicaCellio Yeah, I haven't got it. How do you want to get it to me? You can email me (if you have mod powers that tell you my address).
2:25 PM
@SethJ thank you! Email sent.
@MonicaCellio Likewise.
@SethJ thanks - got it! (By the way, I've got some daf yomi questions for you this morning. :-) )
3:11 PM
Anyone get invited to join a chat in Islam? I'm not really interested in joining, but I am curious as to why I was invited.
@SethJ If Ali invited you, it was probably for Diwah (did I get that word right?) purposes.
@MonicaCellio I like that how-did-they-argue-for-three-years question.
All: If you make any changes that affect what page something is on, then right-click, in Word, on the table of contents and update field.
@SethJ I just got an invitation there too. I am about to go there and tell him to stop, but of course I can only speak for myself.
@msh210 thanks!
@MonicaCellio @SethJ Is it the Islam chat or a subroom?
@msh210 mine was in the main room. Here is the response I just delivered:
in Islam, 1 min ago, by Monica Cellio
@Ali, please do not ping me in other sites' rooms. If you want to have a respectful discussion with the Mi Yodeya community, you know where to find us. If you want to continue your campaign to promote Islam and criticize Jews based on your faulty readings of our texts (and apparently even a misreading of the name of our chat room), I'm not interested.
@msh210 thanks for the tagging help on those!
@MonicaCellio Pleasure.
3:52 PM
Don't even respond.
in Islam, 2 mins ago, by Ali
@MonicaCellio Quoting quran is not respectful?
@SethJ not planning to.
@MonicaCellio If he had credible rep on the Islam site, I might be tempted to rebut and point out that his behavior has been most unwelcome, but since he doesn't even have credibility there I think it's better to let him founder.
4:58 PM
@SethJ agreed. People here, and in Islam and C.SE for that matter, have explained to him repeatedly what is not welcome. Aside from the novelty of a new player, I don't think your participation will change anything. If you want to then of course feel free, but it sounds like it will just frustrate you.
@DhoweedYaAgov, could I ask you a favor? Your notion that Jews are Muslim is not anything like normative Judaism and you are arguing with people who don't know better. Would you please try to clarify that you're expressing your opinion, not an actual tenet of normative Judaism? The last thing we want is Ali coming here trying to pitch his religion because "you guys said we're all the same". I would appreciate it. Thank you.
@MonicaCellio Oh, @DhoweedYaAgov, you didn't say that, did you? You're just playing to his fantasies and paranoia. It's a semantic game that won't help anybody, least of all Ali.
5:13 PM
@SethJ I'm afraid he did.
I need to explain after class
5:24 PM
in Islam, 31 mins ago, by goldPseudo
why can't you two just use words the same way the rest of the world does?
Yay goldPseudo!
5:56 PM
Am I the only one that, when I see something/someone referred to as "holy [noun/proper noun]", feel the need to add "Batman"?
in Islam, 1 hour ago, by goldPseudo
i'm not convinced either of you even know what you're arguing about anymore.
(No offense intended to Koran-believers (as linked to in my preceding chat message). I do the same thing when the thing referred to is Jewish.)
@msh210 Not anymore.
@SethJ heheh
Mah zeh? Wow iz?
6:21 PM
in The Upper Room, Feb 8 at 22:14, by TRiG
@Caleb I didn't get that far. The fact that @Ali was not actually engaging you in debate at all, but rather setting you up as a mannequin zie could throw half-understood arguments at was annoying me enough.
@DhoweedYaAgov. Words do have different meanings in different contexts, true, but that doesn't mean you can play Humpty Dumpty and redefine words however you like. Not if you want to actually communicate, anyway.
@msh210 Dawah, apparently.
@TRiG thanks
in Islam, 1 min ago, by msh210
"Ali has invited you to join Islam. See your invitations." As I've noted, you should not use Stack Exchange as a platform for proselytizing.... Oh, wait a second. That means Islam the chat room, not Islam the religion. Never mind. Anyway, stop issuing me invitations here, too, please, @Ali. You can always ping me in V'dibarta Bam if you want me.
6:43 PM
And Jews certainly aren't Muslims by the standard definitions of those words. So, @DhoweedYaAgov, if you're using non-standard definitions, you really should make that clear.
i did
Allah gave banei Yisroel the Torah and we follow it and we are muslims to the fullest extent. What the followers of Mohammed and the Quran say is that the "muslims" Are the followers if Mohammed and the Quran
That is where disagree. That is why I say I am Muslim
i was typing on my phone and it wasnt to clear
the line should read What followes of mohammed and the quran say is that the "new" muslims are the followers of mohammed and the quran
if a mod could change that in that room that would be good
7:03 PM
@DhoweedYaAgov If you're going to be ambiguous about language in the first place, I'd suggest doing so only when you have the tools to allow you to be as clear as possible within your deliberate ambiguity.
I don't know if anyone here has heard, but en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Schacter passed away. BD"E.
(Not to be confused with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershel_Schachter, who is alive and well, B"H.)
7:22 PM
in Islam, 11 mins ago, by DhoweedYaAgov
no jew frowns upon me calling jews muslim
@DhoweedYaAgov ^^^ Demonstrably false. I object to you calling us muslims. If you insist on using your warped terminology, you should, in the interests of full honesty, be clear about what you mean each and every time you do it. Frankly, it would be easier for you to just use language the way everybody else does.
@MonicaCellio you object to being called a muslim you dont object to the meaning of the word muslim
we submit to HaShem we are muslim
@DhoweedYaAgov Humpty Dumpty
@DhoweedYaAgov Methinks you should look up the phrase "etymolgical fallacy".
@DhoweedYaAgov I object to you calling Jews, including me, "muslims" or "Muslims", because that word has a very specific meaning in the English language and today's culture and it does not apply. Call yourself whatever you like, but please leave the rest of us out of it.
@MonicaCellio no one is calling you a muslim with the meaning of todays culture
@TRiG Oooh! I love that! Thanks for introducing me to that term. I've seen abuses of this forever, but never knew what to call it.
7:28 PM
@DhoweedYaAgov I don't care what you think it means in your head. You are engaging with a troll, which is bad enough, and you are doing it in a way that reflects poorly on us. In fact, I think I'm engaging with a troll right now, so I'll stop.
@MonicaCellio if you dont care what it means then dont jump into the conversation
@DhoweedYaAgov No, but that's what it means exclusively in English. I would guess that even in Islam today they don't think of the word to mean that whenever they use it. It's literal translation does not come into the discussion.
@DhoweedYaAgov What it means in your head, what it means to the people you're talking to, and what it means to onlookers, may be three different things. You're not talking only to yourself. Do you actually care about communication at all? If so, you should make your best effort to use words that will actually be understood.
@HodofHod thats the point i am using it in the literal sense
Using a word that won't be understood at all is bad enough; using a word which will be misunderstood, as meaning something different, is worse.
7:31 PM
@TRiG if you followed the conversation, youd understand what i have said
its the same as using jew.
not all jews are followers of judaism
@DhoweedYaAgov I understand that, but no one else does. You are attempting to redefine the term in common usage, that is both futile and pointless.
@HodofHod that is the whole point of the discussion. to use the real meaning of the word
@DhoweedYaAgov Don't. No one else does, and no one else will. You will just be misunderstood.
You cannot change the meaning of the word back to it's literal one.
@DhoweedYaAgov I know exactly what you're saying. You're using deliberately confusing language ("Muslim" = "someone who's submitted to God"), in a way that no one else does, in a deliberate effort to ensure that people misunderstand you, so you can then crow about how clever you are and how all these people can't follow your complicated chain of reasoning.
@HodofHod obviously @MonicaCellio minsunderstood me
7:32 PM
In other words, you're trolling.
and i told her if shes not keeping up dont bother trying
@DhoweedYaAgov No, @MonicaCellio understood you too. And she understood what you were playing at, which is why she took you to task for it.
@TRiG that is exactly what islam is... it is calling their followers Muslims and saying we jews are not muslims anymore
@TRiG you obviously havent followed up at all
@DhoweedYaAgov Nope, she understands, but she disagrees. She objects to being called "Muslim" just as I would. Because its meaning in the public consciousness is not the one you ascribe to it. I do not mind being called "submitted to G-d", but "muslim" does not have that connotation in any language that I speak.
@DhoweedYaAgov Please stop assuming that we're not following; we are. We get you, we just think you're wrong.
@HodofHod that is what muslim means. and when i say muslim i mean subimitter to HaShem like as people who follow quran say they submit to HaShem
7:35 PM
@DhoweedYaAgov Okay. Okay. I'm going to assume that you're not trolling. I'm going to assume that you're genuinely mystified about why people are angry with you. I'm going to assume good faith. (I suspect these assumptions are invalid, but I'll try.)
so you would agree that those 3 words are ok to calls jews in english but in arabic the 1 word muslim which means submitter to HaShem is not ok?
@TRiG ok then
@DhoweedYaAgov That is not what the word "muslim" means. It just isn't. You are wrong. That is what the word is derived from. There's a difference.
An important difference.
The etymological fallacy is a genetic fallacy that holds, erroneously, that the present-day meaning of a word or phrase should necessarily be similar to its historical meaning. This is a linguistic misconception. An argument constitutes an etymological fallacy if it makes a claim about the present meaning of a word based exclusively on its etymology. This does not, however, show that etymology is irrelevant in any way, nor does it attempt to prove such. A variant of the etymological fallacy involves looking for the "true" meaning of words by delving into their etymologies, or claiming th...
@TRiG what does muslim mean
@DhoweedYaAgov But no one else uses it with that meaning You are trying to redefine the word in the public consciousness. This is pointless and futile.
@DhoweedYaAgov Today it means "a follower of Islam". No more, no less.
@HodofHod just because no one uses that meaning doesnt mean it doesnt have THAT meaning
7:37 PM
> A Muslim, also spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Qur'an—which Muslims consider the verbatim word of God as revealed to prophet Muhammad—and, with lesser authority than the Qur'an, the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts, called hadith.
@HodofHod because people are uneducated in the real meaning of the word
A Muslim, also spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Qur'an—which Muslims consider the verbatim word of God as revealed to prophet Muhammad—and, with lesser authority than the Qur'an, the teachings and practices of Muhammad as recorded in traditional accounts, called hadith. "Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning "one who submits to God". Muslims believe that God is eternal, transcendent, absolutely one (the doctrine of tawhid, or strict or simple monotheism), and incomparable; that he is self-sustaining, who begets not nor was begotten. Mus...
@DhoweedYaAgov Words mean whatever people use them to mean. That is how language works.
@TRiG exactly
that is why i use muslim to mean its original non mohammadean meaning
@DhoweedYaAgov No, it means that the meaning is archaic. I would object to you calling me "gay" when I'm feeling carefree, despite the "real meaning" of that word.
the word muslim is older than the religion of islam
7:38 PM
@DhoweedYaAgov And by people I don't mean you individually, I mean the general linguistic community. English speakers as a group decide what words mean.
@HodofHod you would object but that doesnt mean i am wrong
@DhoweedYaAgov That's it, I'm done. @TRiG, do you want to talk about something else?
@HodofHod im pretty sure ther are people in the word taht say they are feeling gay today
> "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
maybe not a lot but still
7:39 PM
@HodofHod how's the haggadah review going? I'm about to take mine to a nice quiet corner and read.
> I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
@HodofHod (For reference, I wouldn't.)
@HodofHod How do you do that (quote formatting and reply together in one comment)?
@TRiG You wouldn't object?
@HodofHod I am gay.
@TRiG > I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
7:41 PM
> Quote?
Oh. It works now. Used not to.
@TRiG Right, I knew that. Just making sure we're on the same page. :D
I think this room has the most mod-pinned messages I've ever seen.
@MonicaCellio What? Did you already print it out?
@HodofHod She's mentioned she had a tablet computer.
Also, I seem to have missed the distribution of the Doc.
7:44 PM
@HodofHod No, she is reviewing the latest version of it, IINM. Right, @MonicaCellio?
@SethJ No, I think there was a Word Doc given out, look at the top pinned message
@TRiG did you add the word "computer" so people wouldn't think you meant the original definition of "tablet"?
@HodofHod Adding the word wasn't actually a concious decision on my part.
@TRiG That's ok, I was just kidding anyway :)
@HodofHod I got somebody to email me the draft (stupid corporate firewall) and printed it out. I review better on paper. (msh210 had a link earlier today here. @TRiG, it's a draft for review, not final yet.)
But now you mention it, I can think of more than one definition, including the name of a UK Roman Catholic magazine. (I know about this because I collect dictionaries of quotations, and one had a line that Protestant women could now take the Pill, but Catholic women must keep taking The Tablet.)
7:51 PM
Does the font seem really strange to anyone else? Like the 'w's seem to be too big, for example?
Perhaps it's just Dropbox's displaying
Yeah, it is. Dropbox makes it look really bad, but in Word it looks fantastic.
@HodofHod Dropbox is trying to understand .docx and then display it as HTML, which I've read is really really difficult.
@DoubleAA Correction on Page 2: each others' should be other's according to Word and the internet.
There is a published ISO standard describing .docx, but everything I've read about it says that it's badly written and absurdly long, and doesn't even fully describe the .docx format as implemented by Microsoft.
No Bisyata Dishmaya on the פסח דבר ?
If there's a ב"ה on my letter from Stack Exchange Inc, I think we can put one on our Hagada, what say you?
8:14 PM
@MonicaCellio, pin^^^?
@DoubleAA Also on page 20.
But that's @IsaacMoses's answer. He capitalized "He" but missed a "his".
@HodofHod sorry, I disagree on this one. It's a plural possessive.
@SethJ done
We're not consistent with spacing around the line/graphic between questions. That's ok, but some places that stood out for me: p11 (cramped), p20 (cramped & could fix a weak page break).
I agree with not putting lines between answers (looked good online but bad in the final version). Missed one on p25 before Shalom's answer.
In the credits, everybody's URL ends with the user number except Jin's, which also has "/jin".
8:31 PM
@MonicaCellio I agree: many community members working together to continuously improve each others' contributions. The apostrophe is in the right place. (Would be nice if it were a curled apostrophe, mind you.)
8:49 PM
@MonicaCellio @msh210 @HodofHod @SethJ @TRiG (anyone else): Thanks for reviewing. I can't get to dropbox from work either. Is someone interested in implementing fixes now? If not, I can probably do it this evening.
... Note that there are a couple of places where I removed Hebrew quotations that had RTL weirdness that I didn't know how to work around. In each case, they had translations there, and the precise original language wasn't particularly at issue.
It would be nice if we could find a way to host this other than dropbox. 1) More than one employer we know of blocks it. 2) If you click on the link, you get a Dropbox landing page instead of the straight file.
@HodofHod oops
@MonicaCellio Is it more consistent later in the doc than earlier? (I got more standardized in my groove as I went along.) If so, it could be fixed with some copy/paste from later to earlier
@HodofHod Yes. In the header, top-right, on all pages but the cover?
@TRiG I think all the apostrophes and quotation marks are vertical, not curled. Not sure how I feel about it, but that's how it seems to be.
@SethJ could be an unfortunate artifact of copy/paste from HTML text. Could be fixed, but would probably take a one-at-atime approach
In my view, the TOC looks a bit off. 'Avadim Hayinu through Dayeinu seem to be indented.
(I'm in the PDF.)
@SethJ That's intentional, to distinguish subsections from sections
@IsaacMoses I totally missed that.
We have no other subsections, I take it?
It looks odd.
8:56 PM
@SethJ Just in Magid
@IsaacMoses Probably simplest to leave it. (What's your time limit?)
@SethJ We could take the subsections out of the TOC by doing right-click, modify field, TOC, and setting "levels" to 1 (something like that)
@IsaacMoses Yeah, I thought so. Not sure if this would be better, but maybe the "main" headings could be bolded and then the subheadings of Magid could be regular font?
@IsaacMoses Not sure what that means.
@SethJ That may be possible in those TOC settings
@IsaacMoses K, though I'm still not sure it would be better.
8:58 PM
@SethJ There's a Word way to make it so that only the top-level sections are in the TOC
@IsaacMoses Ohh. Hmm, would that not make it slightly less accessible, though?
@TRiG I'd like to get this out as early as possible today/night, so that the promotion efforts can get started tonight and reach people whose last work day before Passover is tomorrow.
@SethJ It would leave a big gap between Magid and Rochtza
@IsaacMoses Can't do a "replace-all"?
@IsaacMoses Oh, that wouldn't be good, either.
@SethJ If every single single-quote is meant to curl like an apostrophe, then probably yes. If not, you could still use find/replace one at a time
@IsaacMoses I don't know what's considered good style in print publications these days.
9:01 PM
@SethJ We could just eliminate the indent, if people think it looks better without
@IsaacMoses I don't think every page is necessary. Most seforim suffice with it on the introductory pages only.
@SethJ Curled is definitely better. The issue is that if we have any instances of 'paired dingle quotes,' the first one would curl the wrong way if we do a replace-all
@IsaacMoses It would be easier to hunt out those few than every single apostrophe, no?
@SethJ Yes.
@IsaacMoses I agree. While in an ideal universe we might want to fine-tune quote/apostrophe style and TOC spacing and the like, I'd say not at the expense of time. (In a similar vein, everything I suggested today is optional, "nice to have". Any actual typos would take priority.)
9:05 PM
@MonicaCellio The extra line and the "/jin" can each be fixed very quickly
@HodofHod agreed. Once on the intro page is sufficient.
@IsaacMoses yup, figured.
Didn't @Jin say that we could email the final PDF to him for non-Dropbox hosting? If worse comes to worst we can host at Dropbox immediately and move it as soon as we can, but if he's listening and can advise, that'd be great.
@MonicaCellio Host 'n move is not so bad if everyone promotes by sending around "s.tk/miyodeya". I think @jin was just going to put it up on dropbox. He said SE doesn't currently host files on their server. (Maybe he has a server he's willing to use?)
If someone with dropbox and email access can email me the latest .docx, I can make essential changes now, save to .pdf, and send the pdf back. then, that person can upload the .pdf to dropbox, and we can edit the meta post and go LIVE.
What are the glaring changes that need/really-ought to be made?
... We can also release a 98% version now, get promotion started, and just replace it with a 99.5% version later tonight.
@IsaacMoses yeah, that. There's nothing wrong (that I've seen, anyway) in the current version; there are just things we'd like to tweak.
Oh, but one thing: should there be a date in there, so that if we do this next year people will be able to tell the 5773 version from the 5774 one? Either the bottom of the intro or somewhere on the credits page would do it.
Or is the copyright notice at the bottom of the TOC sufficient?
9:20 PM
@MonicaCellio I think maybe not. We're not going to have enough additional content in the next year to make an all-new version of the same doc, but we may want to re-promote the same doc again (unless we're promoting a bound Hagada)
... OTOH, we could put the year in now and take it out in future years if we want to re-promote it, and we might make new versions with mostly the same content, but some added/improved, etc.
OK, I'm in favor of getting the year in somewhere.
@MonicaCellio So should we just start promoting the lastest pdf uploaded and post a revision tonight? (What's the latest pdf link?)
> site design / logo © 2013 stack exchange inc
Lower case seems odd.
@IsaacMoses well, we should promote the durable URL. :-) I'm ok with going live with the PDF from earlier today, and if we replace later fine. What do the rest of you think?
> user contributions licensed under cc-wiki with attribution required
The CC people themselves have dropped the name CC-Wiki.
(They call it CC BY-SA. Often seen written as CC-BY-SA, but they don't actually include that first hyphen.)
@TRiG This text was copied from the bottom of our site.
However, CC-Wiki is a legitimate older name, though now depricated, and it is the name that SE choose to use.
@IsaacMoses Makes sense to leave as is, then, I suppose.
> Longer divrei torah?Shorter divrei torah?Themed divrei torah?
Missing spaces.
9:29 PM
@TRiG Pin this please, @MonicaCellio
@TRiG @MonicaCellio this, too (for reconsideration)
> jakesuggesteda few ideas:
Missing spaces.
@msh210, Hi!
@MonicaCellio Switching to that now.
9:31 PM
Hullo folks.
Long time no see.
Yay @msh210 is back!
@Moshe hello!
What's new in the world of Mi Yodeya?
@msh210 There's a motion on the table to link the latest pdf and start promoting s.tk/miyodeya now, then put up a revised pdf later tonight. What do you think? Do you have time to make some fixes now, before we do this?
Q: Future home of: Hagada - Mi Yodeya?

Isaac MosesAt some point later this week, hopefully on Thursday evening, March 21, we will be very excited to present Mi Yodeya's first publication for print: Hagada - Mi Yodeya? Real questions and answers that spring from the Passover Seder This hagada supplement contains a collection of select que...

@Moshe !!!
@IsaacMoses How've you been?
@Moshe B"H very well. You?
9:32 PM
@Moshe hi! You've come back at a fortuitious time; we are within minutes of publishing a haggadah supplement drawn from Mi Yodeya. Stay tuned!
Pesach cleaning yields the strangest finds. I fond a link to Mi Yodeya. :-)
@IsaacMoses Same.
@MonicaCellio Details? Are there ads? Sponsorships?
@Moshe amongst your chametz?
@IsaacMoses No, just the consequential cleaning that occurs, not necessarily chametz.
@Moshe Sneak preview, if you're interested: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8610121#8610121
@Moshe Who has time to pursue ads?
@IsaacMoses Eh. I have a relevant app or two. :-)
9:35 PM
@MonicaCellio Really? The plural is "each other" no? As in "they gave each other presents" or "the improve the cntributions of each other". So should be "improve each other's contributions".
@msh210 Sounds convincing.
@IsaacMoses Thanks, looking now - seems nice!
@msh210 Hang on. Lemme think.
Yes. You're right.
Still plenty of double hyphens, by the way.
@msh210 I'm not sure about that apostrophe in "each other's"
9:36 PM
@Moshe I saw that promoted on my local Jewish listserv
@IsaacMoses Really? I didn't know Jewish listserv's existed.
You can unpin the question marks around the spacing: it's fine in the latest PDF.
@msh210 hmm, maybe you're right. Go with whichever you like.
@Moshe I meant "listserv" in the colloquial sense, meaning "email list"
@IsaacMoses One way that's worked for me in the past was to set "convert quotes as you type" in Word and then cut-and-repaste the entrie document. Dunno if it'll work here.
9:37 PM
@IsaacMoses Ah, which email list?
@msh210 That sounds scary to me.
> Go around the table and have everyone finish a sentence "slavery is..." "freedom is...".
@Moshe STLJCL (St. Louis Jewish Community List)
> Go around the table and have everyone finish a sentence: "slavery is...", "freedom is...".
@IsaacMoses Ah, got it. Might I throw two more at you? (Also made by me.)
9:38 PM
I tried adding a colon and a comma to that sentence. Is that an improvement?
@Moshe I'm not an active participant on the list.
@IsaacMoses Hrm... Ok.
@TRiG Yes. Thanks
> It can be from literature, torah, art, whatever.
Capital T Torah?
So is this Hagada being printed?
9:40 PM
@TRiG probably better.
> Last year I chose several about the value of stories telling stories.
@Moshe Printed by the crowd, maaaan.
@IsaacMoses Ah, ok.
I really do love the idea of stories telling stories. Reminds me of Neil Gaiman.
@IsaacMoses Last thing - Have you seen this?
9:40 PM
@TRiG But this was a typo, right?
@IsaacMoses I suspect it wasn't intended.
@IsaacMoses hi (just caught up on backread to the message I'm here replying to)
@Moshe Yes. I think you and I have discussed it before here (or somewhere). It's nice.
There's also inconsistent capitalisation of seder, by the way.
9:41 PM
@MonicaCellio No - I'm catching up and leaving again. Gtg
@IsaacMoses Sounds like a good idea, and, no, I don't, sorry.
The introduction has capital S Seder. I think everywhere else gives it in lower case.
@msh210 @MonicaCellio I think the motion carries by acclimation. Editing the meta post now ... (Unless someone stops me.)
You can also unpin the jakesuggesteda one. That's fixed in the latest PDF.
@TRiG Thanks. I'll review and reconsider
ok all caugt up. Sorry I can't edit now. TZT
9:46 PM
@msh210 No problem. We're "good enough" for now, and I can fix some stuff tonight.
> A lot of times people, after going through the Haggadah for the first time (or first time in a long time) look back at it and say, "Wow, that was actually a lot more interesting than I expected/remembered".
There should be a comma before people as well as after.
@IsaacMoses go for it!
Also, by the rules of both British and American English, the closing full stop should be inside the quotation marks.
@IsaacMoses Ah, ok. If you have a mailing address, I can send you a brochure to float to your shul.
@MonicaCellio Done.
9:48 PM
(The quote is a full sentence and is preceeded by a punctuation mark, therefore the full stiop goes inside in British English. In American English, it always goes inside.)
@MonicaCellio. A couple of things from me are still pinned which should now be unpinned. (Since I'm looking now at the latest PDF, and a couple of these come from an older Word doc.)
@TRiG could you give me the permalinks and I'll unpin? (that's easier than visual scan)
> Make it clear from the start if there is anything, anyone wants to know, he should jump in and ask.
What's that comma doing there?
> Make it clear from the start [that] if there is anything anyone wants to know, he should jump in and ask.
@TRiG I meant the actual pinned messages, thanks, not the refs to them.
23 mins ago, by TRiG
> jakesuggesteda few ideas:
25 mins ago, by TRiG
> Longer divrei torah?Shorter divrei torah?Themed divrei torah?
The comma after anything makes me expect an interijection along the lines of "anything, anything at all". The fact that the following word also starts with any doesn't help.
I'd add the that as well (you could actually also insert a that between anything and anyone), but these *that*s tend to be omitted in modern usage.
Machzor Vitry - www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9377&pgnum=489
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