V'dibarta Bam

4:25 AM

@HodofHod I actually saw that comment when you were busy playing around with rtl formatting. My impression then was that you just made some random comment in order to have your name show up as doHfodoH. But looking at it again I see that you managed to totally "spoof" the attribution of that comment (and shtoch my alter-ego in the process) . That's really cool!

HodofHod

@Dave Yeah, I was bored for a bit, so I spent the time to figure out how that thing worked. Stunts like that irk me. I don't think he'll be back, though.

Dave

@HodofHod I could see this causing problems if some troublemaker creates a small, single-character username and starts generating fake comments.

HodofHod

@Dave IF that ever happened, (and that's a big if) I'm sure SE could just strip that character out.

Dave

@HodofHod After a day or two of mayhem...

Double AA

@Dave For instance, a user name consisting of just a lower case L

HodofHod

4:39 AM

@Dave Update: Usernames must be at least 3 characters. And they have to be normal characters - no Unicode funny-business

@DoubleAA courtesy ping^^

Double AA

@HodofHod Does that include evil Arabic eyes?

Disclaimer: Evil modifies eyes. ^^

2

HodofHod

@DoubleAA Interesting. Must proceed to test.

Double AA

ه ه

124 6 26

^^ כגון הא

ه ه

4:58 AM

@DoubleAA B"H he doesn't generate fake comments

Double AA

@هه @Vram b"H indeed. He just generates frustration when trying to ping him in comments.

ه ه

@DoubleAA B"H he doesn't comment often

Double AA

@هه @Vram I disagree as his comments are usually enlightening.

ه ه

@DoubleAA that doesn't make them frequent...?

Double AA

@هه @Vram ...but it means that it isn't a b"H that they are infrequent.

ه ه

5:01 AM

@DoubleAA I see

HodofHod

@DoubleAA m'varech al hara....

Double AA

@HodofHod Fair enough, as long as we're clear that it's a ra'.

HodofHod

@DoubleAA Which is really just a concealed level of good...

2

Which stems from the yud-hey of Hashem's name, which is even higher than the revealed good which comes from the vav-hey.......

Double AA

@HodofHod We're not talking about a ra' that Hashem did, so must we say that?

HodofHod

@DoubleAA Wait, there's something in this world that isn't from G-d?

Double AA

5:04 AM

5

Q: do we really have free choice?

I was told hashem put us down hear with free will so we make a choice to do good or evil right? well hashem knows what we are going to do in 10 minutes. so do we really have free will. hashem can see the future!

hashkafah-philosophy theology free-will-bechira

HodofHod

:P

ه ه

@DoubleAA assuming i'm human

Mar 13 at 5:19, by Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA ... or biological?

HodofHod

@هه Yes, lets

Double AA

@هه @Vram I think if Nairobi General Hospital hired an AI doctor, we would have heard about it.

HodofHod

Ultimately, everything is sourced in G-d, who is good, therefore....

ه ه

5:06 AM

@DoubleAA A lot of things happen in Nairobi that you never hear of

HodofHod

I don't remember ever hearing that mevarech... only applies to "acts of G-d" and not anything else.

(My not hearing of it doesn;t mean it doesn't exist, of course)

Double AA

Google Analytic tells me 12 people clicked on this :) Man, am I funny!

Mar 13 at 3:59, by Double AA

@AdamMosheh It says gullible in this link: http://goo.gl/rAQZU

HodofHod

@DoubleAA I refuse to click! What's there?

the suspense is killing me!

ه ه

7

Q: does one have to take a Midrash/Aggadah literally?

Does one have to take a Midrash/Aggadah literally?

parshanut-torah-comment talmud-gemara hashkafah-philosophy midrash

Double AA

@HodofHod What suspense? You don't believe me? :)

Dave

5:13 AM

@DoubleAA make that 13...

HodofHod

l'havdil, elef havdalos

Double AA

5:57 AM

@HodofHod Woof: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/773/…

HodofHod

Alright, I got to go to bed, I have to give shiur in 5 1/2 hours, and I should have gone to sleep long ago. See ya tomorrow!

@Vram Good night!

ه ه

6:18 AM

@HodofHod good morning

@DoubleAA are you aware of a more efficient method than this?

Double AA

6:39 AM

@هه @Vram See from here till my comment one hour later and of course msh210's MSO post.

Adam Mosheh

4:37 PM

Why did the ten wicked spies have to die, why couldn't Hashem have punished them to reside outside the land, and that would have been a sufficient punishment?

msh210

4:49 PM

@AdamMosheh Why do boale nidos get kares instead of growing scales?

@AdamMosheh In other words, I think your question is a good one, but is very much not unique to this case.

msh210

5:20 PM

IMO a bunch of the answers at

8

Q: Jewish Life & Learning Glossary

A glossary! This is for Judaism-related terms that come up on the main site whose meanings people may well not know. To search this glossary for (e.g.) משנה, type inquestion:this משנה in the search box at the top-right corner of this page and hit Enter. Note, though, that that effort may be sty...

support faq language glossary

are unnecessary.

Heter, asur, g'mara, rav -- these are words that come up over and over and over.

T'cheles, hagbaha, tz'nius, batel barov -- these aren't.

Linking to Wikipedia or elsewhere the few times they do come up might be better than having a glossary that attempts to explain so very many terms.

Just a thought.

msh210

5:35 PM

Begin Parashat Hashavua' Chat #25 - Shelach 5772 ??

jake

@msh210 What's up with the "??"?

msh210

@jake When I posted it, you and I were the only ones here. (Hi, @MonicaCellio.)

Source list.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 Hi. Adam was early with his question; maybe he'll come back.

msh210

@MonicaCellio @AdamMosheh, come back! :-)

Okay, so...

1 hour ago, by Adam Mosheh

Why did the ten wicked spies have to die, why couldn't Hashem have punished them to reside outside the land, and that would have been a sufficient punishment?

Monica Cellio

@msh210 They did damage, though, by convincing the rest of the people, so just saying "you 10 out, everyone else proceed" wouldn't work. But it gets me wondering why they weren't punished on the spot like Korach et al, since both threatened the whole klal.

jake

5:40 PM

I'm wondering... What do you think the literal tranlation of "tzitzis" is? "Fringes"? And then "tzitzis hakanaf" is the "fringes of the corner"?

Does that imply that there are tzitzis not on the corner as well?

Monica Cellio

@jake I've only ever heard "fringes" but I've never seen any sort of linguistic analysis. And really they're more like tassles. Maybe wherever chazal derive this implementation (4 threads folded, 5 knots, etc) says?

jake

Another topic: The mekoshesh etzim. Why did they put him in prison? Was that a punishment? If so, how could they punish him if God had not specified a punishment? Was it just to make sure he didn't get away? Maybe. But where exactly is he going to go? He's in the middle of the desert with no food if he leaves the camp.

Since when do we have a concept of prison in halacha, though?

Monica Cellio

@jake yeah, prison doesn't seem to be a form of punishment we use, so it must just be "hang onto him while we get an answer".

msh210

@jake Is it plural?

Monica Cellio

@jake He couldn't really go anywhere else, but he could have spread his ideas throughout the camp, maybe. "Lookie, I gathered wood on Shabbat and nothing happened to me! Follow me!"

msh210

5:49 PM

@jake Bate din would jail people in contempt of court.

jake

@msh210 Doesn't sound like it. What would be the plural, though? Tzitziot?

@msh210 As a punishment?

msh210

@jake To encourage compliance.

jake

@msh210 Hmmm, doesn't sound like that's the case here.

msh210

@jake I agree.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 Like when trying to get a man to give a get, right?

@msh210 So do I.

msh210

5:51 PM

@MonicaCellio That's one example, yeah. I think if he's refusing to do any mitzvas ase or comply with any court order, though. Or something like that.

Monica Cellio

@jake In this case it sounds like they were guarding him while they got an answer -- not the contempt case and also not punishment.

I wonder how they didn't know what the punishment was, though. Did they really not know, or did they know but need confirmation? Or looking for a reason not to carry it out?

jake

@MonicaCellio They had already been told not to work on Shabbos, so he definitely was in the wrong. I don't think that it had been specified what exactly the method of execution was.

Monica Cellio

(I wrote a d'var once postulating this as an act of kiruv. Can't link from work, but maybe later.)

@jake Oh, the question was about method! That could be.

msh210

@MonicaCellio That's what Rashi says. "They didn't know with which death he should die, but they knew someone who violates Shabas gets death."

Monica Cellio

@msh210 Probably dumb question, but where in torah are the non-stoning death penalties given? I can only recall stoning being explicit.

jake

5:55 PM

@MonicaCellio Probably right. I guess even though he didn't really have anywhere to go, it probably was more efficient that chasing him around the camp when the time came.

msh210

@MonicaCellio Lev 21:9 is one off the top of my head.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 close, :9. You're good!

msh210

@MonicaCellio Thanks. Doubtless Alex could think of more.

Monica Cellio

@jake Courts did this later too, didn't they? If someone was on trial for a capital offense they held onto him until the verdict and then escorted him out. None of this "go home, we'll get you later".

jake

With regard to the "tzitzis", I see Rashbam compares to Ezekiel 8:3. Interesting.

msh210

5:58 PM

@jake Also a fringe/tassel-like thing.

jake

@msh210 Yes.

Monica Cellio

@jake Interesting. (Ezekiel's imagry is always something of a cypher to me.)

jake

Hmm, also from Rashbam: "הציצית הזה יהיה לכם לראיה שתראו אותו. כמו: מציץ מן החרכים
וכן מצאתי בספרי"

msh210

@jake Ibn Ezra does, too.

jake

@msh210 Oh yeah. Didn't notice that. Thanks.

Monica Cellio

6:01 PM

Welcome @HodofHod, didn't see you come in.

msh210

@jake Oh, actually he rejects it. ("There's good evidence for the second explanation so the first is void")

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Hi!

backreading...

jake

So the, what is "עַל-צִיצִת הַכָּנָף"? Why not just "עַל-הַצִיצִת" ?

We know they're on the corners, after all.

HodofHod

@msh210 He has to, if he's going to head the Sanhedrin....

msh210

@jake And then what's "v'haya lachem l'tzitzis" -- the t'cheles string shall be tzitzis also? Three tzitzises?

jake

6:06 PM

By the way, since it relates to the parsha, I would be grateful for any comments/criticism to my answer here.

@msh210 Good point.

Monica Cellio

I was wondering... when the spies come back at first only Caleb speaks in favor, and it's only after the people carry on and rebel that Yehoshua also says it's a good land and we should go. What was going on there? Did Yehoshua need more convincing? I would have expected him to be prominent from the beginning.

msh210

@MonicaCellio I've seen/heard an answer to this. Wish I could remember what it was.

jake

@msh210 Good questions are always more memorable than the answers.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 I can ask on main later, but figured I'd try here first.

@jake Do we actually know that tzitzit go on the corners if the torah doesn't tell us? Could somebody read it as fringe all around? I guess we're back to your original question about the derivation of the word.

jake

@MonicaCellio I think I'd expect Kalev to be more prominent, especially here where he's trying to get everyone to listen to him, or to quiet down to listen to Moshe. Being from Shevet Yehuda is usually more prominent than Shevet Efraim, but it all depends on the personalities.

Monica Cellio

6:19 PM

@jake Yehoshua is already Moshe's second, though, so on the one hand I would expect him to shush the people. On the other hand it's more powerful if somebody not on the "inside" speaks up. On the third hand he could have spoken to support.

Adam Mosheh

My grandfather invited me to break bread with him for lunch, so that is why I was not here.

jake

@MonicaCellio All valid possibilities.

Monica Cellio

@AdamMosheh Welcome!

Adam Mosheh

Regarding the separation of the Challah for the kohanim... Why do they deserve to be given these extra calories? Why for all priestly gifts, and why challah in particular?

jake

New topic: Only two times I know of in the Torah we find "מאד מאד". In this parsha (טוֹבָה הָאָרֶץ מְאֹד מְאֹד) and also in Noach (והמים גברו מאד מאד על-הארץ). Any significance?

I don't mean a a Shlach-Noach connection. I mean as to what a double me'od means.

(Although Shlach-Noach connections are welcome too.)

Adam Mosheh

6:24 PM

@jake Why me'od twice? Maybe for emphasis. Does there have to be a special reason?

Monica Cellio

@jake Where in Noach is that? (Sorry, not memorized yet. :-) )

@AdamMosheh Since there are only two it's worth looking for one.

jake

@MonicaCellio Gen. 7:19

Adam Mosheh

@MonicaCellio - Two, and not three or four or more.

jake

@AdamMosheh Not necessarily. But usually when people emphasize something, they'll say "me'od" once. That's pretty common, I think. This double me'od is unusual.

Monica Cellio

@jake thx, just found it. (I had been looking in the "waters welling up" part, not the rain part...)

Adam Mosheh

6:27 PM

Isn't that one of the midot she-hatorah nidreshet bahen?

jake

Welcome @DoubleAA

Double AA

@jake Thanks. I'll be in and out today unfortunately

jake

@AdamMosheh What is?

Double AA

@MonicaCellio See mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0522.htm#12

jake

@DoubleAA Doesn't mention the word tzitzis over there, which I think is what Ibn Ezra here is trying to get at in his first explanation.

Monica Cellio

6:30 PM

@jake The only thing I can think of (no sources) is that in both cases there is a sense of totality beyond "very". The waters completely overwhelmed the earth (let's not quibble over Eretz Yisrael), and the goodness of the land is so overwhelming that we should go in and not worry about the residents. Maybe?

Double AA

@jake I was just pointing out that it says they go on the corners

I suppose I'm already assuming that they are referencing the same mitzva

Monica Cellio

Actually, if we believe the midrash that the flood didn't occur in Eretz Yisrael, then we have every spot on earth being "covered" by exactly one "me'od me'od". Probably doesn't mean anything, though.

jake

@DoubleAA My point exactly.

@MonicaCellio Maybe. We'd have to go and check every time we find me'od once to see if it shouldn't really be doubled.

Monica Cellio

@DoubleAA I tend to assume that anything in D'varim that looks like the same thing as an earlier mitzvah is, unless there's evidence to the contrary.

Double AA

@jake See also Genesis 30:43 mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0130.htm#43

Monica Cellio

6:32 PM

@jake true, and I sure haven't done that work. (Chat means a higher dose of thinking out loud. :-) )

@DoubleAA Oh, so there are more than two!

jake

@DoubleAA Nice catch!

@MonicaCellio We discussed this somewhat, I think, in the Parshat Devarim chat.

Double AA

@jake I see two more in Melachim and one in Yechezkel but you had only been talking about Torah.

Monica Cellio

@jake We've been having parsha chat that long? Wow, how time flies.

jake

@MonicaCellio No wait, that can't be. What am I thinking of, then?

Monica Cellio

@jake Any of a zillion opportunities to compare something in the parsha to the repetition, probably. :-)

Double AA

6:38 PM

That's Kings I 7:47, II 10:4 and Ezekiel 37:10 in case you're wondering.

jake

@MonicaCellio Ah, I'm remembering the Parshat Vayeishev chat. We talked about yibum.

Or at least I did. :)

Monica Cellio

@jake Good memory!

Gotta drop off now. Thanks for the good chat all.

jake

I think @msh210 left, so...

End Parashat Hashavua' Chat - Shelach 5772

@MonicaCellio Thanks to you.

Monica Cellio

7:28 PM

@jake, you bring a lot of comments from Abarbanel that make me want to learn more. Can you recommend an English translation for his torah commentary?

jake

7:59 PM

@MonicaCellio I do so because he is my "favorite commentator" and really the only one that I've read extensively. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any English translations of his commentaries. (There is this. I've never seen it before, so not sure how good it is.)

@MonicaCellio His commentaries are generally not as popular, probably because he is extremely verbose to the point of prolixity. It is, however, probably worthwhile to read the original Hebrew if possible, since Abarbanel's Hebrew is, IMO, of the most beautiful and enrapturing to have been written in the Middle Ages.

jake

8:10 PM

@MonicaCellio Oh, and Menachem Kellner translated his "Rosh Amanah" into English, which I have not read (the English version). It's not a Biblical commentary though (although it does include a discussion of the introductory verses to the Decalogue from Maimonides' perspective), but rather a discourse regarding Mamonides' thirteen principles of faith.

Monica Cellio

8:21 PM

@jake Thanks for the help! I hope to one day be able to read his commentaries in Hebrew, but alas I am not there yet. (I still often need vowels and my vocabulary isn't that great yet.)

jake

@MonicaCellio No problem. Good luck.

Monica Cellio

I'll ask if my rabbi has anything to say about that English book of selections. That sounds like a reasonable starting place. (As does the other.)

ه ه

8:44 PM

Yippie I can downvote!!

Adam Mosheh

9:39 PM

@msh210 I thought it was relevant to this case because they were already outside the land. Why did they have to die? Why not just have them not enter and live? Does that make sense now?

@MonicaCellio Doesn't it say that they were in fact punished?

@jake - Learning something out from it happening not only once, or multiple times, but only twice.

I never got a response to this one - chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/4950062#4950062 (see message immediately below)

3 hours ago, by Adam Mosheh

Regarding the separation of the Challah for the kohanim... Why do they deserve to be given these extra calories? Why for all priestly gifts, and why challah in particular?

How can I bookmark a conversation (such as the weekly parshah chat) like these ones that were done by IsaacMoses, msh210, et al.? -

TRiG

10:12 PM

Could I ask a favour? Could someone please check whether the comments I'm making here actually make sense?

1

Q: Have there been such an attemtpt made to make the comprehensive list of all Bible scrolls ever found?

Have there been an attempts made to make a comprehensive list of all the scrolls or pieces of scrolls of the Bible (in original languages) that have ever been discovered by archeologists?

bible archaeology dead-sea-scrolls

How old? Which languages? Should the list include Syriac translations?, editions of the Vulgate?, the Book of Kells?, later printings of the Masoretic text? — TRiG 38 mins ago

@brilliant. It is a mitzvah to write one's own Sefer Torah, so there are countless thousands, many being written with quill and ink on parchment in houses and synagogues around the world right now this minute. So you're going to have to specify a cut-off date or find some other way to limit this question. — TRiG 2 mins ago

msh210

@AdamMosheh If you can, there should be a link in the right-hand sidebar of this page.

@TRiG This comment makes sense, except that the question asks for scrolls "that have ever been discovered by archeologists" specifically.

Stack Exchange

10:32 PM

-2

Q: Why judaism.stackexchange.com? How come not yahadut.stackexchange.com?

Why is our site named judaism.stackexchange.com? How come not yahadut.stackexchange.com? Our StackExchange website is about Judaism. But we are Jews, so we should call it Yahadut. For whatever reason (perhaps because they are proud of their heritage), Muslims call their religion Islam and not ...

discussion feature-request hebrew

TRiG

10:47 PM

@msh210 That is, I suppose, a point. Hadn't thought of that.

Transcript for