TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-04-26

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12:04 AM

@PauloCereda That is neat. I wonder if it would have worked with liquid antibiotics.

5 hours later…

5:10 AM

I have HUGE problem with texstudio. but I have no minimum working example. Here is the problem. It corrupts latex files. This happens as follows. I edit the Latex file outside of texstudio using the main application I use that generates the Latex file. I use texstudio sometimes to compile the file and do any touches I need. texstudio keeps OLD cache of the file and it overwrites all my edits I made to the file using the other app when I open the Latex file in texstudio.

Can I post this on main forum? This happens many times, and no I am afraid to open texstudio any more, else it will erase all the changes I made to my latex files from outside texstudio. This is a terrible behavior.

I even close texstudio and open it, and it still reading the old CACHE content of the file. I see old file inside textsudio which is not the same as the file on disk. I do not know how to tell it to read the file from disk and not use old cache.

1 hour later…

6:16 AM

user image

4

For @TorbjørnT., hurray!

@egreg Thank you!

We should have a party!

@egreg always

6:37 AM

@cfr if you have the name you could split it up using l3 string handling to split on / and take the last item, or use the \filename@parse defined in the format which wil give the directory, basename and extension.

@TorbjørnT. congratulations

@Nasser I don't have the editor but you are saying it caches the input? how can that work? if you edit a file there is no point editing a cached copy?

@egreg Save if for Mico's upcoming 200k.

@DavidCarlisle Thanks.

@TorbjørnT. Congratulations!

@TorbjørnT. ... and don't let @DavidCarlisle organize the catering of the party!

@CarLaTeX lol

@Moriambar :):):)

@CarLaTeX don't worry I have it organised, I can ~~annoy~~ please everyone at once: duck pizza

2

cookipedia.co.uk/recipes_wiki/Crispy_duck_and_hoisin_pizza

6:48 AM

@DavidCarlisle OMG! @PauloCereda ^^^^

@DavidCarlisle it could actually be good

@Moriambar for saying that, @CarLaTeX will have your Italian citizenship revoked:-)

@DavidCarlisle Not for the duck pizza but for having tried the pineapple pizza!

@CarLaTeX yes, I was hungry and the "giropizza" served that one

@Moriambar OK, I forgive you!

6:53 AM

@TorbjørnT. We can have two parties!

@CarLaTeX phew

@Moriambar ;)

7:48 AM

@DavidCarlisle I found an even better receipe: "Duck, pineapple, and brie pizza".

@UlrikeFischer oh lord

8:03 AM

yee the new version of typoaid is on ctan!

@UlrikeFischer excellent! Now the French contingent at the party will feel at home as well.

8:18 AM

@DavidCarlisle once there's pineapple on a pizza, you couldn't ruin it much more. So any other ingredient has the chance to make it less worse

@Moriambar you're just saying that to try to regain respect from the other Italians present. I'm sure you found Ham and Pineapple Pizza deliciously tasty.

@DavidCarlisle I think is one of the worst dishes (given that, separately, I like all of the ingredients) I've ever tried.

@DavidCarlisle I have an "english" question for you (serious). The word teetotaler means that one simply does not drink, or it implies a specific lifestyle choice/philosophy (e.g. veganism)?

@Moriambar bit of both probably, I think it's usually defined as "does not drink alcohol" but it has (or had) connotations of Methodist (protestant) Christian aversion to the evils of drink, so it's not normally used if you are not drinking just because you don't like the taste, or for medical reasons.

@DavidCarlisle ok thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

8:43 AM

@Moriambar you could blame the german, it is probably a variation of toast hawaii (which isn't bad actually if you don't overdo with the cheese): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza

@UlrikeFischer The german I already blame for KOMA and ConTeXt. I think it's enough :-P

@Moriambar context is dutch

@Moriambar ConTeXt is dutch.

@UlrikeFischer snap

@DavidCarlisle Yup, was just editing it. Well, I blame the germa for KOMA and for the Dutch :D

8:46 AM

@DavidCarlisle I was late as I wanted to write conTeXt ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Hans just puts 'Context' ...

@Moriambar I blame the Italians for pineapple-less pizza

@JosephWright Yes, I feel Context is wonderful. Really never come to understand how to use it (but I know I'm slow)

@JosephWright I was considering to check but then I would have been even more late ;-)

@DavidCarlisle well, fair enough

8:49 AM

23

A: How do LaTeX3 and ConTeXt compare?

ConTeXt is a complete, self contained system which tries to have solutions for (almost) everything. LaTeX (all versions) on the other side is "only" a kernel. That you need to load packages to get some features is not a deficiency: LaTeX is meant to be extended by packages and classes. LaTeX3 w...

@UlrikeFischer really nice. I basically never understood how to use Context. Also its documentation sucks

but I agree that LaTeX is more reliable for the reasons you wrote

@Moriambar Well the answer is over 6 years old, and some things in context have changed. There is more documentation (also in the wiki), and it is a powerfull system with things that are missing in latex. But it is still missing the open discussion. I doubt e.g. that you have gotten the help and the encouragement to write your own context "typoaid" package.

@UlrikeFischer I see. I disagree on the documentation, though. Read it a bit ago, and seemed really not that good to me, w.r.t. many LaTeX package documentation. But what are the things that are missing in LaTeX and are doable with Context? Anyway I feel its power but I'm not able to harness it

@UlrikeFischer I have to add that without the support and encouragement of this chat room I would've never created typoaid, being it useful or not

@Moriambar Missing are e.g. grid typesetting and tagged pdf. Also in- and export to xml, epub etc is better.

9:04 AM

@UlrikeFischer I see. Epub export was something I wanted to study for LaTeX.

But ConText I find difficult. Maybe I'm too LaTeX-y

9:18 AM

@egreg (regarding your email) in the end I used an intermediate approach, making everything global since I needed global variables, e.g. for Ex-height, Em-width, and ultimately "char per width".

9:51 AM

@barbarabeeton Oh I had no idea of the correct taxonomy! :)

@egreg using my packages again?

@DavidCarlisle Just to recommend not to.

@egreg I put a stronger recommendation under the question.

@PauloCereda quack

quack!

10:05 AM

@PauloCereda how is your thesis work going?

@Moriambar slow but steady. :) I have a couple of things to define first. :)

@PauloCereda I bet someone here would say "slow because you don't use emacs". Nice about the steadyness though

@Moriambar Thanks! <3

@PauloCereda Definition 1 and definition 2?

\documentclass{book}\begin{document}thesis\end{document}

@egreg :)

10:12 AM

@egreg At least it's not written in sans-serif fonts (seen that), with word (seen that), and uses all-caps and bold for emphasis (seen that)

@Moriambar he'll probably write the whole thing then there'll be a six month delay while he works out how to get out of insert mode and save the file from vim.

2

@DavidCarlisle I never close my session. :)

@DavidCarlisle well, first you have to get in the insert mode. At least 3 months unless you press random keys and stumble upon it

10:56 AM

@TorbjørnT.: Congrats!

@PauloCereda Thanks!

@PauloCereda We started the party a few hours ago!

@PauloCereda By the way, how did I know @TorbjørnT. got his 100K? ;-)

@egreg oooh

@egreg no idea. :)

@PauloCereda When I looked this morning, he was still to 999995, which I deemed a bad figure. ;-)

@egreg you should have done a couple of downvotes while you were there to get a nice 100001

11:06 AM

@DavidCarlisle No, 10005 is divisible by four primes, 100001 by just two.

@egreg ooh :)

@PauloCereda Here it is

? factor(999995)
%1 =
[     5 1]

[199999 1]

? factor(100005)
%2 =
[  3 1]

[  5 1]

[ 59 1]

[113 1]

? factor(100001)
%3 =
[  11 1]

[9091 1]

@egreg not using expl3?

@DavidCarlisle We should ask Bruno to implement factorization into primes

11:40 AM

@egreg:

Hey @realDonaldTrump, don't build the wall; buy Bonucci and Chiellini! It will be easier and cheaper 🇮🇹

Tweeted by FabrizioRomano on April 19, 2017 at 8:30 PM

@PauloCereda No way! We need them!

@PauloCereda who are they? Muratori bergamaschi?

@Moriambar Anathema! They're (among) the best defenders in the world!

@egreg sorry, I haven't followed really football after 2006. And disgust it after working "inside" that world for a famous tv in 2010. Didn't like what I found out :)

12:29 PM

@egreg Oh don't

@PauloCereda -- yeah, well you have control over your own system. i arrived this morning to find that all systems had been shut down without advance notice, and web pages i had "up" because i need to access them today, all gone. fie.

@barbarabeeton oh no!

@barbarabeeton Tut tut: leaving a system on overnight with no need. We'd be told off about electricity usage and fire safety!

Can somebody test if the links from our "text building blocks" are working? tex.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/430/text-building-blocks I tried to use them in a comment (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/366789/…) and the link will lead me to a page with "Your connection is not secure - The owner of meta.tex.stackexchange.com has configured their web site improperly."

@samcarter I suspect this relates to some upcoming changes in structure

@samcarter I believe the meta sites are all moving from meta.<thing>.stackexchange.com to meta.stackoverflow.com/<thing> (or something like that)

@samcarter Ah, I see: they've reordered already (meta.tex to tex.meta): we need to adjust the links I suppose

12:33 PM

@JosephWright -- except that today i have to put the final polish on my slides for tug, answer a couple of author questions that i have to finish researching, and print out boarding passes -- we fly tomorrow. today's the last chance. and a new production question has just surfaced. it'll be a busy day.

@samcarter Hopefully fixed now

@barbarabeeton Ah

@barbarabeeton Looking forward to hearing news from the meeting

@JosephWright Thanks!

@barbarabeeton You said you are meeting Frank in Germany?

@JosephWright -- me too. i really don't know who will be there, other than the speakers and a few others. and yes, we'll get together with frank at the frankfurt airport, and be on the same plane to bydgoszcz. we're counting on frank to keep us from getting lost the rest of the way (he's been there before).

@barbarabeeton Did you see Nick Craver's post about the double backslash issue?

4

A: Double backslashes disappear from code

Update: This was almost certainly my fault. On December 20, 2013 I moved the TeX (and meta) databases to new homes. I'm not sure how the original problem occurred, but TeX and its meta had a very odd database collation. Of the hundreds of databases, it was only those. We didn't recognize this fo...

2

12:59 PM

@egreg -- yes, and added a comment echoing yours. i think setting an and date of 31 december 2013 and checking for single backslash + [ 4 spaces | tab ] should identify nearly all of the corrupted entries. they can search for a tab, but i haven't found any way to do so by entering a "code:" search term (even cutting and pasting a known character found by accident). here's hoping ... and i do think i might be able to get some volunteers at the tug meeting, if it's set up.

1:19 PM

@egreg Yay(ish)

@DavidCarlisle That's what I was wondering. I didn't know if that would work on Windows. So I just need to persuade @JosephWright to give me the name?

2:16 PM

@cfr Not just down to me :)

@cfr We had some data on this before but it wasn't working correctly: I'll see what I can do over the bank holiday and then raise with the team at our next meeting

2:42 PM

@barbarabeeton you can search for tabs in the data query thing, but I seem to remember I only found one instance

Christian Hupfer

@TorbjørnT.: Welcome to the club ;-) Fresh drinks are ... well not served ;-)

@barbarabeeton despite your wet blanket comment I still think that's what they should do. single-backslash four spaces is very rare and the places where it would actually make the code wrong to add a newline there are even rarer (I haven't seen any in the hundreds I looked at before I stopped)

3:03 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- i've fixed more than one tab/lost return, but the four spaces are a couple orders of magnitude more frequent. i'm okay on the idea of the automatic fix, as long as the changes are checked with reasonable care; it's actually likely that an automatic replacement is more accurate than your or my typing.

@barbarabeeton yes but I suspect your comment may stop them doing it:-)

@barbarabeeton yes but ones you had fixed would not show up in my search, when I searched for tab there was only one, and I fixed that one.

@barbarabeeton although my typing is famously accurate

@DavidCarlisle -- your typing is simply infamous.

@DavidCarlisle -- okay. i've replaced that comment with one that might encourage them to really do it.

3:20 PM

I HAD BISCUITS

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda .... AND OFFERED THEM NOBODY ELSE!

@ChristianHupfer oh no

/runs

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Citing a movie: I've got six little friends here and all can run faster than you can ;-)

@ChristianHupfer I don't know the movie, but this might be related to shooting someone. :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda From Dusk Till Dawn ;-)

3:23 PM

@ChristianHupfer ooh

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda There's not much shooting in From Dusk Till Dawn ;-)

@ChristianHupfer :D

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda @Moriambar accused the Germans already of being responsible for KOMA and ConTeXt. Better not mention the war then ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Those are two good things. :)

@ChristianHupfer -- usually all that's necessary to avoid being attacked by a bear is to be able to run faster than the slowest person in the group.

2

Christian Hupfer

3:38 PM

@barbarabeeton I'll take that advise into account as soon as I will be attacked by a Black Forest Bear ;-)

@barbarabeeton ooh I like this idea

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: How fast can you run? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer very

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Ok, adding to my To-Do-List: Learn to run faster than @PauloCereda ;-)

@ChristianHupfer give the bear some cookies

Christian Hupfer

3:41 PM

@PauloCereda I will spread them between you and the bear ;-) You can wrestle with the bear then about the cookies

@ChristianHupfer you are mean

@DavidCarlisle ^^ The Black Forester is being mean to me.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Me? Never.

@ChristianHupfer -- at the haffenreffer (anthropological) museum at brown, in an exhibition in honor of brown's 250th anniversary, some of the exhibits were various bears. (the brown bear is brown's mascot ... figures.) someone had given them a delightful pair of carved wood figures -- a mama and baby black forest bear. she really doesn't look too fearsome, and the little one is positively charming.

@barbarabeeton It seems this is the only bear in South America, and it's not even in Brazil: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacled_bear

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda @barbarabeeton: The last Black Forest bear was shot almost 300 years ago.

This is currently the 'fiercest' predator we have in Black Forest (and only a few of them):

user image

3:55 PM

@ChristianHupfer -- very sad. so the carved critters at the museum are a memorial them. your lynx looks quite beautifully fluffy. i hope they don't get shot and extinguished.

@JosephWright I regard you as the LaTeX God. OK, one of the LaTeX gods.

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton The Lynx is a protected animal. It's not allowed to shoot them.

@JosephWright Thank you ;).

@cfr I'll read that as 'One of the people with access to the LaTeX SVN and upload rights for the team to CTAN' ;)

@ChristianHupfer <3 that cat

@ChristianHupfer yep, a bit of lapse. KOMA was just enough

4:01 PM

@PauloCereda @barbarabeeton @ChristianHupfer not quite sure where bears come from suddenly, but we have this one

user image

@UlrikeFischer -- a coati! he's charming! (the bear reference was in response to the comment at chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/36970938#36970938 that didn't involve any shooting.)

@PauloCereda good

@barbarabeeton One probably will have to say he was charming, the picture is from 2008. But we are still sponsoring a Nasenbär -- hopefully one of his decendants ;-)

1 hour later…

5:33 PM

Hiya chat ... could I ask for help with LaTeX doing really strange things with \includegraphics in here?

I have a pdf file I used to include as graphic, but don't need anymore and I wanted to remove it.

but the moment I remove the \includegraphics line, I get the following errormessage:

> pdfTeX error (ext4): \pdfendlink ended up in different nesting level than \pdfstartlink.

@JosephWright I'm going to be on the inside front cover of Dalton :D :D So I now am signed up to learn how to use the departments 3D printer.

@Vogel612 Does this help? tex.stackexchange.com/q/1522/2693

@Canageek Cool

@Vogel612 Well, I'm easily the least experienced person here, but have you tried deleting your aux files?

huh ..

5:38 PM

@JosephWright I know you are disdainful of covers, but my boss thinks they help

@AlanMunn wow ... I wouldn't have ever guessed to search with relation to that package ...

that does indeed fix the problem, thank you very much :)

@Canageek I've no issue with covers, I've an issue with the cost of them :)

@Vogel612 Google is your friend. :) It's almost always productive to search for the text of the error message itself. First hit was that question.

@JosephWright Fair. We just spent more then that on solvent though

@Canageek Sure, overall

5:40 PM

hmm .. I should know that, but I've been spending so much time searching TeX error messages and getting no useful results at all so I've become kinda hesitant with that when using tex

@JosephWright No, just the last batch of dry solvent

@JosephWright Almost all our budget is payroll, then solvent and metals

@JosephWright Oh and vials. Apprently we go through over $1000CDN a month on vials and gloves alone

@Vogel612 Well it certainly does depend on the error, and the way TeX works the error messages are not always directly connected to the problem.

@Canageek As we've discussed before, the approach in the UK is different: I 'see' the cost of salaries but can't really use that for anything else, so by measure is relative just to consumables

Christian Hupfer

6:16 PM

English style question: What is better style: increasing number of.... or growing number of....? @DavidCarlisle @JosephWright

@ChristianHupfer 'increasing'

@ChristianHupfer increasing (most likely)

@ChristianHupfer I'd go for 'increasing'

@ChristianHupfer But as @DavidCarlisle suggests, it might depend a lot on the context and what is actually increasing.

@ChristianHupfer e.g. A growing number of experts agree that vim is bad for your mental health. 'increasing' would be odd here. So what's the actual context?

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn The context is: an increasing number of investors ...

6:19 PM

@AlanMunn although in that case, you could replace "A growing number" by "All"

@ChristianHupfer Then yes, I think 'increasing' should be fine.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn Thanks to you all @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle from my girl friend

@DavidCarlisle not only experts too

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn I agree this time ;-)

@ChristianHupfer This is increasingly becoming a habit. :)

6:30 PM

@Moriambar snooker's on:-)

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn Don't overestimate this ;-)

@ChristianHupfer oh my

@barbarabeeton ooh

@DavidCarlisle yup thanks, I'm writing in between frames. I think I'm slowing approaching my Lethal Snooker Dose

7:23 PM

@AlanMunn I am duck, am I affected? :)

8:03 PM

Is tabu that bad a package? I never used it, but found some guides who recommend it…

8:20 PM

@Moriambar Its author promised a few years ago a new version that would be mostly incompatible with the present one. No news about it since.

@egreg ohh I see… so, since a new version is never coming, is the package ok?

@DavidCarlisle every time I answer a "table" question, I get reminded how much you were right about separators…

@Moriambar it's not as good as its manual thinks it is

@Moriambar like so many other things, no doubt?

@DavidCarlisle Of course, but usually I listen to what you say, because you're way more experienced than me. In that case I did not, and thought that the horror for separators was common sense

@Moriambar :-)

@DavidCarlisle yes, like the horror for vim

8:35 PM

@Moriambar ok so tables, vim, you know what's next: pineapple pizza

@DavidCarlisle Nope sorry.

@DavidCarlisle tried it at my expense. Not going back there

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg I have read now your messages

thanks a lot lot lot lot for your precious help

@Moriambar Did you look at its manual?

@DavidCarlisle @egreg my best regards

@Sebastiano Ciao

8:37 PM

@egreg Ciao gentilissimo Prof.

@egreg well, how much can one tell by a package manual?

In this morning I have gone at my old university

@Moriambar Can you understand a single part of it? I can't.

I find it a horrible sight, like pineapple pizza is an horrible idea and taste

@Moriambar This is worse than pineapple+pepperoni+strawberry pizza

8:38 PM

@egreg :)))

@egreg my teacher use always overline for the vectors

@egreg well I cannot think about one can find it useful. I think that booktabs+tabularx+longtable+ rarely multirow and colortbl (for alternating shades of gray on long tables) cover all there is.

@egreg I hate pepperoni, so… of course

user image

@PauloCereda You're the evidence. :)

@Moriambar The idea is good, by itself. My impression is that the author wanted to do too much.

@egreg Ah, I see… I know the yearning of doing as much as possible.

(at least I kept typoaid useless, causing no harm :))

8:43 PM

@egreg Thank you immensely with david for help. I like a lot of mt2pro but I do not have the full version. I can create vectors in bold or without using an adobe illustrator and make the designs you see

Meanwhile, greetings to everyone,

@egreg anyway I really do not think there's a need for much more regarding tables… so I thought that, since many used it (and it's recommended in the GuIT guide) and here is so criticized, that there was something that I did not understand/know about it

Howdy, @Sebastiano

user image

@egreg I use the resnick halliday notation

@Moriambar do you like my pictures ?

@Sebastiano To be honest no: too many colours make them confounding for me; I am used to monochromatic vectorial displays

@Moriambar :) i like many colours

@Sebastiano mmh many colours sound to me (and appear to my eyes) just like vertical separators.

8:50 PM

@Moriambar :)

@Sebastiano I think 2 colours at most would cover more than 95% of what is needed

@Sebastiano also do not depend on colour, because you're bound to have some colorblind people, sooner than later, reading your work

@DavidCarlisle does your browser try to correct you too when you type "colour"?

@Moriambar colour <<< no:-)

user image

@Moriambar but it knows I'm English

@DavidCarlisle mine tries to underline it with a damn red line

8:53 PM

@Moriambar this is halliday resnick physics

@DavidCarlisle Of course. The huge amount of snooker seems to have passed unnoticed by mine

user image

@Moriambar ^^

@Sebastiano just as ugly

@DavidCarlisle removed spell checking :) So now I'm bound to make more and more mistakes

@Moriambar what is spell checking ?

@Sebastiano è il correttore ortografico

8:57 PM

@Moriambar here in chat?

@Sebastiano yup. Corrected my english, but wanted it to sound a bit more american (like it doesn't already)

@Moriambar ahahah How is it used and where?

@Sebastiano see the image I posted above (which is firefox) spell checking is a feature of your browser, not of this site.

I use google translate and often I not understand the english language- i use google chrome

@Sebastiano It was my browser that did that automatically

9:01 PM

user image

@Sebastiano Why you don't use the Italian website then? It may be better for you not to struggle to be understood/to understand

@Moriambar Do not joke :) ahahh No better here. At least I learn a bit of English

@Sebastiano never been more serious

@Moriambar You are very cheerful :).

I have to close all greetings and a good rest. Thanks for the help you give me and thanks to your kindness

@Sebastiano I think I've never been called cheerful before. Maybe bitter was the word you were looking for :)

2 hours later…

11:01 PM

I just found the perfect music site for @egreg

coretexrecords.com/Startseite-1

@AlanMunn I'll buy the full catalog!

@egreg It's right up your alley. They also sell boots.

user image

11:20 PM

user image

@egreg This one is more stylish. You'll also need some tattoos.

@AlanMunn Let me find a tattoo shop nearby.

@AlanMunn I might tattoo LaTeX on my forehead

@egreg Always a wise choice.

11:36 PM

@AlanMunn In Comic Sans, of course

2

@egreg I don't know. Comic Sans doesn't seem very hardcore to me.

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