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4:51 AM
good maen
 
 
3 hours later…
8:06 AM
That much activity in here ...
 
@ChristianHupfer Indeed
@ChristianHupfer Lack of ducks
 
@JosephWright: Agreed.... \setcounter{duck}{0} unfortunately
 
@ChristianHupfer :-)
 
\refstepcounter{duck}. \newaliascnt{paulo}{duck}.... \thepaulo.... damn... failure ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:28 AM
@AndrewCashner looking for a csname sounds wrong, basically, if you don't want a paragraph break before the list there shouldn't be a blank line in the tex source
 
@DavidCarlisle: A rarely occuring event:
 
@ChristianHupfer blame xetex:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle: Thank you, xetex :-P
 
10:09 AM
@JosephWright can you see dante this morning? Unable to connect to a repository at URL 'svn+ssh://xxxxx@comedy.dante.de/
 
10:28 AM
@StefanKottwitz I think LaTeX is a good excuse for leaving the european continent and travel far away. :-)
@DavidCarlisle Oh no .... Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.dante.de.
 
@Johannes_B but that doesn't check ssh connections to a private port:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle No :-)
 
10:43 AM
Wow, there really is an site for everything it seems.
 
@Johannes_B: I just read "Lifesucks beta" ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer This might be a very interesting site as well. Let's get to area 51 and make a suggestion ;-)
 
1
Teaching Mathematics in Germany/German language

Proposed Q&A site for all (German) Math teachers being employed on German speaking schools, regarding the traditions and new methods in German (Austrian/Swiss) school system(s)

Currently in definition.

@Johannes_B: I've done already, it's called by another name :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer The example questions are in german?
 
@Johannes_B: It's about teaching in Germany... so yes
 
10:48 AM
@ChristianHupfer Are there other non-english sites, except for the purtuguese one?
 
@Johannes_B: I don't know
@Johannes_B: The site desparately needs followers ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Well, i am not a mathematician.
 
@Johannes_B: Yes, I know
 
@ChristianHupfer Have a look at the new follower and his profile picture.
Interesting thing is, it assigned me the same gravatar as texwelt.
 
@Johannes_B: Oh my :D Thanks
@Johannes_B: I renamed the proposal and extended it to Science ;-)
 
11:02 AM
@ChristianHupfer If a student uses some photo for a homework assignment and doesn't give credit to the owner, uses proper citing and stuff, i.e. getting into license/copyright issues ... what happens? I cannot remember that there was any lesson in school on that matter and i think it is a really important thing to know. For teachers as well.
 
@Johannes_B: Perhaps this will extend its outreach
@Johannes_B: Well, difficult to tell...damn, phone, back soon
 
@ChristianHupfer that was no proposed question for the site. This was a reall question from me :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I'd seen that
 
@JosephWright so I couldn't update, so I made this: github.com/davidcarlisle/utex
 
@DavidCarlisle Cool
@DavidCarlisle Will take a look later on
 
11:06 AM
@JosephWright is there an easy way not to have that character table:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Add a .cfg file that defines \CTable as a no-op
@DavidCarlisle See pull request
 
11:23 AM
@JosephWright see how to handle pull request documentation first:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Huh?
 
@JosephWright OK I didn't need to read documentation, I just clicked a big green button...
 
@DavidCarlisle :-)
 
@JosephWright I meant me read doc, not you:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah
 
11:24 AM
@JosephWright I guess I need to pull locally to get back in sync...
hmm not quite right:
$ svn git pull
Unknown subcommand: 'git'
Type 'svn help' for usage.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes
 
$ git update
git: 'update' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

Did you mean this?
        update-ref
 
@DavidCarlisle git pull should do you, unless you want git fetch then git merge origin
 
@JosephWright ah git pull worked, I'll look what U have locally
ah yes the cfg is already here. My mental model still obviously isn't quite right, I thought pull just updated my local repository
 
@DavidCarlisle You are supposed to look before you merge :-)
 
11:30 AM
@JosephWright yes but I merged on github, then I pulled that to here
 
11:42 AM
@cfr MS Paint certainly hasn't gotten better, but artists have :) This video is from 2008 vvv The business starts at around 30s
 
@JosephWright I am just looking into german.lbx. Many other languages are using \addabbrvspace, in german it is hard coded with \,. Some minor other stuff and some missing translations is also there. I'll see if i can fix this and upload it to github if you (or Philip or Audrey) are ok with it.
 
@DavidCarlisle Have a working build set up: can you send me XeTeX diff?
 
@SeanAllred Freaking GEMA doesn't even allow me to watch this video.
 
@JosephWright er OK let me find one that works for non bmp (I gave up last night with one that crashed the format building stage....)
@JosephWright did you use texlive svn or the xetex repro (I failed to build from latter, seemed to be too many missing dependencies)
 
@DavidCarlisle TL SVN
 
11:58 AM
@JosephWright mail
@JosephWright I got that but via rsync, so I can't directly svn diff against the originals but it seems to work OK
 
@DavidCarlisle Same here: rsync as suggested on the TL webpages
@DavidCarlisle Rebuilding
 
12:15 PM
@Johannes_B Jeez, that's annoying. I'll try to find some true OC without music – you should be able to see that.
There is music, but perhaps it's obscure enough… @Johannes_B vvv
 
@SeanAllred Wow. Nearly 50 hours of drawing compressed into a couple of minutes.
 
@Canageek You should take a peek at emacsrocks.com for some inspiration :) though that's hardly the only/best/worst/coolest way to use emacs :)
@Johannes_B Right!? It's simply impressive.
 
@Johannes_B try doing that in tikz
 
@DavidCarlisle All checks passed
 
@JosephWright the 2e ones?
 
12:30 PM
@DavidCarlisle No, just your short set
 
@SeanAllred Yes, the music was somehow strange. I would have imagined jingle bell rock instead of those epic tunes.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, something not quite right: am looking into it
 
@Johannes_B But I suppose Jingle Bell Rock would be copyrighted :)
 
@JosephWright so you fixed \string?
 
@DavidCarlisle No: I have a feeling there is something else going on!
@DavidCarlisle Am working on it
 
12:32 PM
@SeanAllred Right, the copyright issue.
More CC music please.
 
@JosephWright I get
  Check failed with difference files
  - ./build/test/ermsg-001.luatex.diff
  - ./build/test/show-001.luatex.diff
  - ./build/test/string-001.xetex.diff
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup: same here now
 
@Johannes_B: We can participate in this ... (not proposed by me)
10
Living in Germany

Proposed Q&A site for people living or going to live in Germany, and anyone interested in German life and culture

Currently in definition.

 
yo'
@Johannes_B @barbarabeeton said that it's "not officially announced" though "more or less agreed on", as far as I remember.
 
@yo' Right. Will be announced in Darmstadt, iirc?
 
yo'
12:45 PM
@Johannes_B that's the common practice for conference series, yes.
@PauloCereda Why do Java developers wear glasses? Because they don't C#.
 
@Johannes_B: Beta? I thought its official already? I have an account there, but did nothing so far
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer "Beta" means "launched but not a full site".
 
@ChristianHupfer Three questions, one after the other: “Mitkommen” oder “mit jdm. kommen”?, Wie buchstäblich kann ein Seitensprung sein?, Wo sind die Eistüten hin?
 
yo'
btw, I've got 17 rep there :)
 
12:59 PM
Grundstücks­verkehrs­genehmigungs­zuständigkeits­übertragungs­verordnung One of the words i use several times a day.
 
is it me or the CTAN is out?
 
@Johannes_B: Perhaps you could name your daughter like that ;-)
 
@Maïeul DANTE seems to be down.
 
@Maïeul: Yes, seems to be down
 
5
Q: Examples of texts with very long words

yo'I'm interested in examples of texts that contain large numbers of long German words. It is basically just for testing purposes, still I would prefer the text to make at least some sense. If it were couple paragraphs, I would be most happy.

 
1:03 PM
@Johannes_B @ChristianHupfer thanks. So I will wait to upload new version of CTAN. It's not my connexion
 
@yo': Now you've got 33 rep ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer oh my why? :D
 
@Maïeul: What kind of upload? A new package?
Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz ... oh mein Gott
 
@ChristianHupfer no, an update of eledmac
 
@Johannes_B: Abkürzung: RflEttÜAÜG
 
1:06 PM
@ChristianHupfer The politicians started to laugh. Good guyys.
 
@Maïeul: Oh, you are the author of eledmac -- heard a lot of it, but never used it so far
 
cfr
@SeanAllred ;)
 
@Maïeul I hijacked your polyglossia issue ;-) github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues/87
 
cfr
@Johannes_B Music?
 
@Johannes_B yes, I saw, but it seems polyglossia maintener is inactive
@chr
 
1:11 PM
@cfr Music?
 
cfr
Oh, Never mind. I have mute on.
 
@ChristianHupfer if you don't need it, it's normal ;-) I have heard a lot of many packages but I have never used them
 
btw, all our user names ar horizontally cut off the lower half. Do you guys see the same?
 
cfr
@Johannes_B The MS Paint video. I didn't get music. But, then, I have mute on so maybe it was just invisible music.
3
 
@cfr :-D
 
1:14 PM
@Johannes_B: Cut off where? Here in chat? Nope
 
@cfr Like the guy with hardware problems. No output visible on the screen. Turns out, monitor wasn't plugged in.
@ChristianHupfer Yes here in chat. And once again, i am the only one with issues.
 
@Johannes_B: Well, can you post a screen shot?
 
cfr
@Johannes_B At least he had a monitor.
 
cfr
@Johannes_B The names on the left? Look normal to me...
 
1:16 PM
@cfr: Did you succeed with the geometry question? My answer is not really an answer. It's some ...last resort ;-)
@Johannes_B: Nope, I don't see what you noticed
 
@ChristianHupfer Thinking about it, i think that the names are cut off for quite a while but i never really get this to concious part of my brain.
 
@Johannes_B: I am using Firefox 34.something... pretty old, so it's not an outdated software issue
 
yo'
@Johannes_B Neither do I see a problem. Have you tried cleaning your cache?
 
@yo' Not yet, but i did quite a few times after the site update. And i just noticed, the issue i posted on meta is resolved meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/6068/37907
 
yo'
@Johannes_B you mean that you don't see an issue anymore?
 
cfr
1:24 PM
@Johannes_B You seem to be using larger fonts than @ChristianHupfer? That is, relative to the width of the dotted line on the left. Maybe chat can't deal with that?
(Not suggesting this isn't a problem, if so.)
 
@yo' Exactly, main looks normal. Gotta drop a note
 
yo'
@Johannes_B normal? really? Because I see this issue still:
5
A: Site design updates are live!

egregThe question titles in the main and meta pages are not aligned: Compare with the main page in Math.SE

 
@cfr: Well, I use small fonts, that's all ;-)
 
@cfr Since the update, fonts seems to be \Large. But if i make them smaller, i can't read the comments properly.
 
cfr
@ChristianHupfer Not until you said this. I've left a comment and upvoted. But it doesn't really solve it, so I'm afraid I've not accepted it... [Why didn't the system tell me you'd answered? It tells me everything else!]
 
1:27 PM
@Johannes_B the language is still in beta? that explains a lot, perhaps it'll be more understandable when fully standardised.
5
 
yo'
@cfr the system is just a (bunch of) human(s) and all humans make mistakes :)
 
cfr
@Johannes_B It looks normal in current Firefox for me.
 
@yo' They seem to be off by a few pixel, but not as much as posted by egreg
 
@cfr: As I said, it's not an answer. I did not expect to get it accepted. And I delete my answer in between because there was an error -- perhaps that's the reason for the missing notification.
 
cfr
@yo' That can't be right, surely. Notifications must be automated. You aren't telling me there are a bunch of people somewhere who put little notes up every time somebody leaves a comment for me?
 
yo'
1:29 PM
@Johannes_B here, they are badly off.
 
@DavidCarlisle Lol
 
@DavidCarlisle They still need to fix the latin letter sharp s issue :-)
 
yo'
I believe that the body font is 1px larger, and certainly awfully ugly. Nobody will ever convince me that it looked so badly before.
 
cfr
@yo' Though I do like the idea...
 
yo'
@Johannes_B especially the capital one :)
 
1:29 PM
@Johannes_B and learn to use that big long key at the bottom of the keyboard
2
 
@yo' Agreed.
 
@cfr @Johannes_B: even with larger fonts there is no such issue
 
yo'
C'mon, we're a site about typography, and we get such an ugly design full of typographic disasters? This is a nightmare come true.
 
2
Q: Why are these questions not properly aligned?

Sean AllredThe misalignment is very apparent. (Specific but post-layout-uglifying image.)

 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer that's a dupe :)
 
1:35 PM
@yo': Is it? I did not check
 
@DavidCarlisle It's the same problem with \par\section{}. I translate \section to <h1>, so I don't want <p><h1></h1></p>.
 
@yo' Oh, now i know what you mean. Yes, badly misaligned. Bad Bad Bad.
 
Too broad, in my point of view:
0
Q: How to implement this DnD 5e stat block in Latex?

SuperbestDnD 5th edition uses condensed stat blocks for creatures like the following example from the free "basic rules": Note the grey line indicating the boundary of the page. How can I create such a stat block in Latex? Specifically: How do I make the condensed ability score array? What styles/font...

 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer quite, unfortunately :-/ But I would wait if someone still wants to answer.
 
@yo': Our tikz gurus (@DavidCarlisle... hint!)?
 
1:40 PM
@ChristianHupfer @yo' Asked for splitting.
 
yo'
@Johannes_B I have seen it and have commented, too :)
 
@AndrewCashner yes sure, you need to decide how much you expand \newcommand \zz{\section{this}}\par\zz` has same problem. but it's dealing with that that makes latexml tex4ht etc so complicated. If you know your input is fairly regular then you can look for the patterns, so newline-newline can make a pending <p> that you add unless the following thing is in a set of know exceptions. Or you do a two pass conversion and make some more or less OK html then give it to something like html tidy
 
@yo' s/appear/appears/ ;-)
 
@yo' @Johannes_B: Upvoted two comments there :-P
 
yo'
@Johannes_B sorry, a French habit :)
 
1:44 PM
@yo' French is a nice language -- to listen to when spoken by a pretty girl.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, the plan was zero expansion, just convert one kind of tags to the other. My thought is, when encountering \n\n I can set a flag ENDPARA, and then if the next thing enters CSNAME mode, if ENDPARA is set then I use a switching table to determine whether to put it in a <p> group.
 
@AndrewCashner souunds like a plan
 
@DavidCarlisle Having to write \item{} with braces is a bit annoying, but worth it I think.
 
@SeanAllred @yo' Out of interest, is the community user that thing where the OP agrees on duping? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6118/…
 
yo'
@Johannes_B yes. unfortunately. I've made some pretty harsh comments about it before on MSE.
 
1:58 PM
@yo' Confusing crap.
@yo' I read some of those :-)
 
yo'
@Johannes_B I do make a lot of harsh comments there :)
 
Do deaf ducks dance dixie?
@yo' I bet you have pretty good reasons for it?
 
yo'
@Johannes_B indeed.
Two of the comments are here, one after the other:
@ShadowWizard With your argument, please stop calling edits that a low-rep user approves on his own post as "approved", since the user obviously can't approve edits. — yo' Mar 10 at 23:46
 
@Johannes_B: Next block of exam sheets ... only \dfrac{2}{3} of it done so far
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks again.
 
2:11 PM
@ChristianHupfer You can do it. :-) </motivationalSpeech>
 
@Johannes_B: Sometimes it's really scaring how few text/solution students write in a math exam (or what kind of rubbish!)
 
@ChristianHupfer People with an Abitur and studying cannot work a coffee machine. I can believe that some of them aren't good at maths.
 
@Johannes_B @yo' That was my doing. Once I cast my VTC, the system asked me if the dupe "solved my problem". Once I verified it, Community (with its mod powers) closed the question then and there. It's a good way for first-tier users on more crowded sites to keep the review queue…reasonable.
 
@AndrewCashner I was going to mention that terminating csname with brace sounded wrong, especially in math mode you can not do that without messing up the spacing.
 
@DavidCarlisle wait…really?
 
2:16 PM
@SeanAllred Confusing nevertheless.
 
@Johannes_B Indeed. I only found out myself by going through the process :)
 
@SeanAllred yes sure in math mode {} is same as \mathord{} and makes a math ord atom so typically changes the spacing.
 
@DavidCarlisle Today I Learned.
 
@SeanAllred compare $+2$ and ${}+2$
 
yo'
@SeanAllred we just argue that your vote should simply be bonding, and you should be warned about it.
 
2:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle Ah, yes… To be fair, I thought you were talking about things like \frac{\numerator}{\denominator} :)
@yo' I'd be in favor of that. Anyone with VTC powers should already understand the consequences of a closed question – if they cast a close vote on their own question, there's no reason it shouldn't be binding/final.
 
@SeanAllred no andrew was terminating all csnames with { to make parsing easier, hence his comment about \item{} but $\log{}(2)$ isn't same as $\log(2)$
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah yeah, that wouldn't work :)
TeX seems to be the only thing that can correctly parse TeX 100% of the time. :)
 
yo'
@SeanAllred exactly. And if it's a noob, they get completely different the dialog "Does the other Q solve your problem". If they agree, they should simple appear as another close voter with a binding vote.
 
@SeanAllred that's why tex4ht uses tex, although latexml does a pretty good job of parsing it with perl but Bruce modelled the whole stack including catcode changes etc not just trying to regexp the surface syntax
@SeanAllred seen my new github repro?
 
@DavidCarlisle utex?
 
2:23 PM
@SeanAllred yep
 
I saw it – something about l3build with unicode TeXs?
 
@SeanAllred yes because they can't parse tex 100% correctly either:-)
2
 
@DavidCarlisle audio-recording-of-me-laughing-and-saying-'oh,-that's-so-sad'.mp3
 
2:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle I was hoping for Knuth TeX with Unicode input. ;-)
 
@egreg you might have to hope for reincarnation
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, upTeX already does it, just adapt it.
 
@egreg does what, reincarnation?
@egreg although I wonder if I should add uptex to my test run, have you ever used it?
 
@DavidCarlisle Reading Unicode, AFAIK. About reincarnation, maybe, there are many Buddhists in Japan.
@DavidCarlisle Only a couple of times for some answer.
 
$ uptex testfiles/string-001.lvt
This is upTeX, Version 3.14159265-p3.6-u1.20 (utf8.uptex) (TeX Live 2015) (preloaded format=uptex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
(./testfiles/string-001.lvt
(/home/davidc/texmf/tex/latex/l3build/regression-test.tex
! Undefined control sequence.
l.50 \expandafter\edef\csname\detokenize
@egreg ^^^^ it doesn't like @JosephWright's test harness:-)
 
2:53 PM
@DavidCarlisle Apparently no e-TeX. Bummer!
 
@egreg and if I run the test by hand outside the l3build runner, uptex also fails \string on non-bmp test (although differently to xetex)
 
@DavidCarlisle Nice! :)
uptex
This is upTeX, Version 3.14159265-p3.5-u1.11 (utf8.uptex) (TeX Live 2014) (preloaded format=uptex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
**\relax

*\edef\x{\string 𠀀}

*\show\x
> \x=macro:
->𠀀.
@DavidCarlisle ^^^^
 
3:12 PM
@egreg yes as I say it was different to xetex, some of them worked but the test was truncated so it seems one of the math alphabet characters killed it:( will look later I got distracted by vvvvv
@JosephWright @egreg new extex bug (or difference from luatex) github.com/davidcarlisle/utex/blob/master/testfiles/…
@egreg should probably look at guarding the etex stuff so I can add uptex to my utex test runs...
 
3:29 PM
West Indies
299 all out
266 - for 7 wickets (95.3 overs)

England
464 all out
 
@DavidCarlisle I mostly use math mode for the occasional symbol and I create macros for these (\newcommand{\sh}{$\sharp$}). But even that's a problem with my system since there's no brace at all. Likewise with something like \newcommand{\dots}{[\dots]}. But how else to terminate the csname? I copy the csname character by character, so I guess with every new character I could compare it to my list of known csnames until I find a match. Doesn't seem ideal.
 
@DavidCarlisle Seems quite good!
 
@AndrewCashner why not use the rule tex uses? after \ then it's one non-letter or any number of letters
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner What's the problem, pal?
 
@egreg yes but it's last day so we need to knock out the last three tail enders and then score enough in the last session to win (which is exactly what we failed to do in the first test)
 
3:36 PM
Just noticed that!
 
yo'
@SeanAllred yeah, it was there at the very beginning as well, just in the other order :)
 
@yo' Hehehehe
 
@SeanAllred: @yo' offended me with that line ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh?
*opens transcript*
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer and you seem to be proud of it! :D
 
3:38 PM
@yo': Nope. The use of \bf....\rm offended me deeply. Shut up was ok ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer you get so easily offended by plain? Good to know :D
 
@yo': PlainTeX is offending by default :-D
 
@yo' it's the main reason for my plain TeX answers... @ChristianHupfer ;-p
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer @wipet You see? ... I think you should blacklist this guy
2
 
@yo' trouble maker
 
3:39 PM
Oh no, @yo' is summoning a demon :D
@yo': Flagged your demon call :-P
 
@JosephWright Is Philipp Lehmann a german? Do you know?
 
@Johannes_B: Unlikely, his name is Lehman, not Lehmann
 
@ChristianHupfer Not enough evidence ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer you seem to have confused the flag and the star ;)
 
@yo': My flags look like stars :D
 
yo'
3:46 PM
Sorry, David, it doesn't work...... — Fangyang Tian 3 mins ago
@David ^^ a very useful comment you've got :)
 
@Johannes_B Based in Germany, know little else about him
 
@JosephWright Wanna know the strangest thing? I forgot why i have asked you this question.
 
@yo' I ought to know that deleting one of my packages is a good thing to do:-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle I think he tried to add it once more instead of remove it ;)
 
@yo' I'd guess.
 
yo'
3:49 PM
anyways, gotta go do something useful. See you guys later
 
@JosephWright I suppose I should report ! You can't use `\Umathchar"1"1"12' after \the. to xetex list:(
 
@DavidCarlisle No, you can't. Only \Umathcharnum is legal there, AFAIK. What the transformation rule is seems a well kept secret.
 
@egreg yes that's what I was trying to find out, but first thing I tried gives different results in luatex and xetex which wasn't a promising start
@egreg the message is rubbish in any case as I didn't use \Umathchar there.
@egreg the bit backing between \Umathchar and \Umathcharnum is described in luatex manual (not xetex:-)
 
Who is messing up here?
\documentclass[spanish]{article}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{biblatex}
\addbibresource{biblatex-examples.bib}

\begin{document}
\fullcite{iliad}
\printbibliography
\end{document}
 
@DavidCarlisle \Umathchardef\x"1"1"12 \count255=\x \showthe\count255 works in LuaTeX, but gives the above error in XeTeX.
 
3:55 PM
@Johannes_B: I know, I know... it should read \documentstyle{article} :-P
 
@DavidCarlisle Do you plan to point to the tests on the LuaTeX and XeTeX lists?
 
@egreg yes that's exactly what my test file does. seems like an xetex bug to me
 
@ChristianHupfer documentstyle? What happened to you?
 
@DavidCarlisle Agreed
 
6 mins ago, by David Carlisle
@JosephWright I suppose I should report ! You can't use `\Umathchar"1"1"12' after \the. to xetex list:(
 
3:57 PM
@Johannes_B: Back to good old LaTeX 1.0 :-P
 
@JosephWright I have a few more in mind to add first but then, yes.
 
@Johannes_B It dies while reading Z{ü}rich
 
@DavidCarlisle Cool
 
@yo' I am trying to make a very simple converter from LaTeX to HTML markup for my own use. Just converting the source code with strictly limited set of markup commands. So far it works except for \par, math mode, and tabulars. github.com/andrewacashner/latex2html
 
@JosephWright at @egreg's suggestion I tried uptex which is interestingly different (and its utf8 code in the web change file might give some hints for xetex) but it doesn't have etex so couldn't read regression-test I needed to add
\ifx\detokenize\undefined
\def\detokenize#1{#1}
\chardef\currentiflevel1
\chardef\currentgrouplevel0
\fi
 
4:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle l3build itself doesn't assume e-TeX: must be in regression-test.tex
 
Can't add it to the cfg file as that is too late, do you think allowing the file to be at least read in non etex reasonable?
@JosephWright yes see ^^^
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, sure
@DavidCarlisle I think Will did the packing into a .dtx: the original version didn't require e-TeX
@DavidCarlisle Of course, you know that as the test system was your idea in the first place
 
@JosephWright probably not quite like that though as it would leave \detokenize somewhat dangerously defined:-)
@JosephWright :-)
 
@Johannes_B: Cooking time ... Chicken with Indian Curry Yoghurt - Crust and Rice ...
 
@JosephWright OK will look at re-arranging that a bit, once dante comes back
 
4:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle Only used in places that could be rearranged to use a toks
@DavidCarlisle I'd still like to change that file name: regression-test is a bit generic for me
 
@JosephWright yes and the final \currentiflevel tests could be skipped.
 
@DavidCarlisle Now if we were using Git ...
 
@JosephWright zzz.tex ?
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed: e-TeX is not essential here
@DavidCarlisle Well l3build.tex seemed obvious to me, but ...
 
@JosephWright sounds good to me
 
4:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle Will raise on team list
@DavidCarlisle I think we kept regression-test to avoid altering files, but I'd rather look long-term
 
@JosephWright Oh I thought you had named it that here (I always think of it as test2e.tex)
 
@Johannes_B I guess something related to ü, but it's strange it chokes at Zürich but not at Düsseldorf.
 
@DavidCarlisle No, like I say we kept the name but I suspect we should standardise on one: like I say, one for the list
 
@JosephWright yes but I hadn't noticed it was called regression-test in the l3 suite
 
@DavidCarlisle No: I think people may have forgotten. It's as good a time as any to fix this, before it gets more widespread use.
 
4:23 PM
so if I want to junk the file I'm editing and just get the one in my local repro (rm file; svn update or svn revert file) what do in git tutorial i just landed on suggested half a page worth of complicated git rebase commands, must be something easier??
 
@DavidCarlisle git checkout <filename> or to reset everything git checkout master (assuming you are on the master branch)
@DavidCarlisle This one is I think non-obvious ;-)
 
@JosephWright thanks, works:-)
 
@Johannes_B The problem seems to be that in the second item of \list{location}{2}{{D{ü}sseldorf}{Z{ü}rich}} the macro \lbx@es@smartand@i comes into action and it does \lowercase{\edef\lbx@tempa{Z{ü}rich}}, which is very likely to die.
 
@DavidCarlisle Pull request ;-)
 
@egreg is that biblatex and case changing?
 
4:27 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@egreg Oh goody, another one for me to look at I guess
 
@JosephWright I was going to add, we know who to blame...
 
@JosephWright :) That \lbx@es@smartand@i macro does several bad things, I believe.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup, that's the idea of pull requests (in contrast to say me sending you a patch then you adding and having to note in the message 'Joseph's fault')
@egreg Great
 
@JosephWright Quite strangely, with French it works.
 
@JosephWright presumably it's now safe to do a commit/push from the top level (are ~ ignored by defualt?
 
4:31 PM
@DavidCarlisle Should be
 
@JosephWright will try on next test file...
 
@DavidCarlisle News here: have XeTeX with \Uchar working (and have modified the banner so I know it's my version!)
 
@JosephWright good! have you set things up to work side by side? I copied them to a sibling directory of my main tl2015 bin and set the path but the formats over-write each other, so if I switch paths back I need to remake the formats, I was wondering about changing the name of the binary and the formats so I could run patched and unpatched xetex at same time
 
@DavidCarlisle Just replaced official xetex with homemade one
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner ah ok. You're like the 1000007th person to try that :D
 
4:39 PM
@JosephWright yes that's equivalent to what I did really but when doing these utex tests for example I think it's fairest to be using a xetex I haven't mangled before saying it's a xetex bug
 
4:49 PM
@JosephWright if you get a minute could you see why direction TLT wasn't normalised. Ah it's because I said that luatex was stdengine I guess (I did that so it would use luatex for build save)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I've documented that!
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
@DavidCarlisle Does the logic there make sense?
 
@JosephWright yes I remembered reading that while writing the above.
@JosephWright possibly but as I want to compare xetex and luatex I want the normalisations, I set stdengine to luatex as first test was the xetex string bug so generating the tlg with luatex seemed like a good idea.. I could switch it to xetex now I suppose.
 
@yo' I know 1007007 of them.
 
yo'
@egreg You know everything.
 
@yo' except the right answer
 
5:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know it! It's 42.
 
@egreg or `* as I was explaining in some answer this morning:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle That's the answer to LaTeX, Unicode and EveryTeX
 
5:49 PM
@DavidCarlisle See XeTeX mailing list
 
 
2 hours later…
7:54 PM
@egreg @JosephWright Thanks for looking into this. Is this little note dropping enough, or should i open an issue on github?
 
@Johannes_B Log an issue
 
@JosephWright Ok.
 
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