TeX, LaTeX and Friends

TeXnician

4:57 AM

@ChristianHupfer An unthankful task!

Sebastiano

7:28 AM

@samcarter ok

TeXnician

9:07 AM

@Moriambar Now my tlpretest delivered the new typoaid. Let's test ;)

Paulo Cereda

10:18 AM

@DavidCarlisle: I decided not to scale my maths. I took a different approach and left it out of my slides. If an equation is huge and does not fit in a slide, it surely will be complicated enough for my audience to understand. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Good strategy. Or you can show half in a slide and the other half in the next one: it adds to suspense.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh I like this plan too. :)

My newsfeed is surely... different. :)

Moriambar

@TeXnician good luck

Ulrike Fischer

10:45 AM

@PauloCereda better than a frog. youtube.com/watch?v=hBaUmx5s6iE

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh I love that sketch. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda me too ;-)

(from an old xkcd)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer yay

Jesse Maher

What's the etiquette on asking a question that here I don't think is likely to want it's own official 'question' thing? It's just a weird thing, and I'm not sure what to do with it...

*here that

I'm just trying to compile a .pdf using \bibliographystyle{humannat} in the natbib package, but it keeps coming up saying that the humannat.bst file is missing and that it needs the 'beebe' package. Packages usually install okay, but I click install, and then nothing happens and the compile just fails. If I restart the compile I get the same thing. :/

TeXnician

@JesseMaher Please post a full question, but with far more details.

Jesse Maher

11:00 AM

le sigh. ok.

Moriambar

@TeXnician good luck

Ulrike Fischer

@JesseMaher Sounds like a problem with miktex and on-the-fly: try if it works if you synchronize the repository in the package manager.

TeXnician

@Moriambar Two times?

Ulrike Fischer

@JesseMaher Or try to install the beebe package with the package manager. If it fails you get perhaps a better error message why.

Moriambar

@TeXnician connection problems, I don't know why it popped twice

Paulo Cereda

11:46 AM

@egreg: today is the Patron Saint of Italy, isn't it?

Jesse Maher

Never mind. I've fixed it. I have no idea what the problem was, but doing something fixed it.

Paulo Cereda

12:09 PM

0

A: Is this a tilde?

It's not the same character as Tilde ~. Rather ˜ is called "small tilde" and on Windows one gets it by holding ALT then typing the "ALT keycode" 0152 and then releasing the ALT key. In LaTeX one processes it in the following way:

I am not sure I enjoy this answer, to be fair.

CarLaTeX

12:29 PM

@PauloCereda I even doubt it's an answer...

TeXnician

@CarLaTeX Me too. But is "Is this a tilde?" a question?

CarLaTeX

@TeXnician You're right, even the question isn't clear...

TeXnician

@CarLaTeX Probably best to close it, I made the first step.

CarLaTeX

@TeXnician Approved and done the same!

@egreg Sto compilando il 730, sai per caso se si può dare il 5 per mille al GUIT?

Moriambar

12:47 PM

@CarLaTeX interessante!

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar Non ho trovato indicazioni sul sito, quindi penso non si possa fare, però potrebbe essere una buona idea per l'anno prossimo . Ho chiesto ad @egreg perché lui è del giro e magari sa qualcosa di più...

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician Indeed.

egreg

@PauloCereda S. Caterina da Siena!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX: I was tempted to troll and write an answer with the image of Patrick Star and the text, "no, this is Patrick!". It's a classical meme. :)

egreg

@CarLaTeX Ne dubito

Paulo Cereda

12:55 PM

@egreg Yay!

@PauloCereda :):):)

@PauloCereda I visited her house in Siena.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Cool! A friend once told me her head is inside a reliquary.

egreg

@PauloCereda According to Wikipedia, the body is in Rome, where she died; the head was taken to Siena, in S. Domenico’s church, near her house; the left foot is in Venice at S. Giovanni e Paolo (one of the best churches in Venice).

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oh!

@egreg it's amazing!

egreg

1:03 PM

@PauloCereda You can see the bronze statue of Bartolomeo Colleoni, by Verrocchio.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg yes!

egreg

@PauloCereda Besides the church there's the main city hospital.

CarLaTeX

@egreg Però potrebbe essere una buona idea per l'anno prossimo. Se conosci qualche responsabile dell'associazione, suggeriscilo... anche se è probabile che la burocrazia per rientrare nell'elenco dell'Agenzia delle Entrate sia tale che non ne valga la pena...

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh

CarLaTeX

@egreg @PauloCereda Italy is so beautiful!

Paulo Cereda

1:05 PM

@CarLaTeX it is!

@egreg, @CarLaTeX: I am watching to this talk: youtube.com/watch?v=EGCRqDVjB0E

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda I'm a Prof. Barbero's fan! Nobody talks about history with his contagious enthusiasm!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX First time hearing him. Surprisingly, I am understanding him pretty well. :)

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda He's very popular in Italy!

@PauloCereda He does some TV broadcasts with Piero and Alberto Angela (two scientific popularisers), an other TV broadcasts about history on RaiStoria (a TV channel dedicated to history).

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX interesting!

Moriambar

1:21 PM

@CarLaTeX really? never heard of him! But again I have no tv

egreg

@PauloCereda He's often at “Il tempo e la storia”, a daily program; I think you can view it online.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Found it in the RAI website. :)

@egreg: meanwhile, wipet posted a competing answer. :)

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar È sempre a Superquark, Ulisse o su RaiStoria, alcune delle poche trasmissioni che guardo!

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX Ulisse -> mai visto. Rai storia -> poco o niente, Superquark-> ultima volt che l'ho visto è stato almeno 25 anni fa. Checks out

egreg

@PauloCereda Yes, the only interesting feature is removing a leading space, if present.

Paulo Cereda

1:27 PM

@egreg that's our Petr. :)

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar I think that's why you don't know him :):):)

kan

Hello everyone!

Johannes_B

@kan Hi

kan

@Johannes_B Hello JB! How is it going?

Good morning!

Johannes_B

@kan Good. Enjoying the adternoon.

kan

1:38 PM

@Johannes_B Hah, it is morning here!

I was up all night at my school library... sadly I lost my coffee mug :(

egreg

@kan Hello! How are you?

kan

@egreg I am doing OK so far! Increasingly realizing that my topology background is not nearly enough to do anything :)

Thank you for asking though ;) How are you doing these days?

egreg

@kan No topology. ;-)

@kan But I've done some and I still have my class notes

kan

@egreg Oh wow! :)

I actually like the subject very much!

So I am having fun studying it!

egreg

@kan General topology?

kan

1:44 PM

@egreg Algebraic and differential kind. :) I feel adequate with my point-set, I think. But of course, I don't know a lot of point-set topology though... Just stuff that I stumble on day-to-day basis...

Moriambar

2:11 PM

@CarLaTeX probably

Marijn

3:49 PM

question: I answered tex.stackexchange.com/q/367364/89417 in comments by referring to a stackoverflow answer, and now the OP asked me to convert the comment into a real answer so he can accept it - but I don't think copying an SO answer is good practise

so what to do?

Johannes_B

4:29 PM

@Marijn Leave a link, nothing to worry :-)

egreg

4:53 PM

@Marijn When you are citing the source and crediting the original author, you are on the right side.

Jonas Stein

5:35 PM

I have a picture in a lualatex document. It fills 90% of one page with its caption. LueLaTeX renders it as section1,textpage1,textpage2,picture. But the picture code was in the beginning of textpage1. Its added with \begin{figure}[h] Why is it better for lualatex to move a page to the end, if its a full page anyway?

I would expect section1,textpage1,picture,textpage2.

TeXnician

@JonasStein Try p instead of h. But your problem is the concept of floating, which is TeX's version to ensure that your document looks good (there are questions about how to avoid floating).

235

Q: Keeping tables/figures close to where they are mentioned

Is there any package or a method to force LaTeX to keep floating environments like table and figure closer to where they are declared?

Jonas Stein

@TeXnician in principle the picture may float, that is why I did not use [H!], but I do not understand why a fullpage picture looks better, if its shifted by n pages.

David Carlisle

@JonasStein [h] is basically a request to move the figure to the end of the document. in latex2e we added a warning so it warns you and changes it to [ht] but that is still very restrictive.

TeXnician

4

Q: How to customize `l3doc`?

As I'm currently writing a package and started to use dtx format I wondered if there are alternative classes just using doc, so I started to use l3doc (since I use expl3 syntax). I'm pretty satisfied with it, but the following points are some kind of annoying: I'm using variable to describe var...

doc l3doc

@DavidCarlisle Why haven't you shown up there (l3team knowledge would be good) ^^^^?

David Carlisle

@JonasStein it does not look better. LaTeX would have placed it in a page on its own on a float page but you used the optional argument to explicitly remove the p option on that float so it could not do that. You also removed the t and b options so the float can go nowhere and is just dumped at the end of the document as an emergency measure.

@TeXnician was out then watching snooker (like @Moriambar I expect)

TeXnician

5:47 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I forgot.

Jonas Stein

@DavidCarlisle OK I see, [h] overwrites [bt], so I have to set [hbt]

David Carlisle

@TeXnician i did actually read it earlier but it isn't clear exactly what you want. Th eclass was of course written before luatex existed so if you are doing a class with lots of lua in it probably you'd need to extend it a bit

@JonasStein p is a float page if you do not include p then going to the end is always likely

Jonas Stein

ok I will test it now

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle Actually, as stated, the best would be how to transfer those bars in the margin (like from function which should be used within documentation, not implementation) to macro and those macros in margin (produced by \Describe...).

David Carlisle

@JonasStein especially [h] is bad as if you have a large figure and the natural position of the [h] is too low on the page for it to be inserted then it does not fit [h]ere and every other option is removed so it is not allowed to be placed anywhere. In latex 2.09 it would go to the end of the document, latex2e complains and changes it to [ht] to give itself a chance.

@TeXnician I'm not sure what bars you meant actually (I didn't run any example I was just going out but I remember reading the question earlier. I'll have a look again in a bit:-)

TeXnician

5:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle I mean those in the margin (around the command sequence name) like below:

David Carlisle

@TeXnician I'm not sure I've ever used the class in this form I suspect it's Joseph and Will mainly. Oh I remember now, your example can't be run can it? what's testpack and termdoc?

Jonas Stein

Lualatex preferred to place the full page float ([htbp]) in the next section instead of two sentences earlier in the same section. I would expect "next section" should have a higher penalty than two lines earlier. Am I missing the point?

David Carlisle

@JonasStein sections have no effect at all on float placement

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle Oh, you're right, I have not corrected the path to dtx (I have extracted it from another dtx document). Thanks for the hint. Not it is right.

David Carlisle

@JonasStein if the float had been placed on the earlier page, would the section heading have fitted (and not had a page break after it)?

Jonas Stein

6:00 PM

yes

I use floatrow instead of float but it should be the same, should't it?

David Carlisle

@TeXnician could do with a .ins if you want people to avoid ! LaTeX Error: File testpack.sty' not found.` (or don't use the package in its doc for the example?)

@JonasStein mostly. But got to go now....

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle indeed, albeit with many streaming problems

@DavidCarlisle where is higgins hawkins? I know that is probably only 1 frame left…

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle well thanks. I did not test it without the generated file. Hopefully it works now (and it's clear what's asked).

Jonas Stein

@DavidCarlisle ok, cu and thank you

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle have I understood correctly, the motorways close during the night???

David Carlisle

6:41 PM

@Moriambar no not normally (unless they have major works like a new bridge or something)

@Moriambar I just caught the last couple of balls of that one.

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle I heard john parrott say that higgins had to take the back roads from southport to Sheffield, because of course the motorway was closed, being 4 in the morning. So they were working on the motorway then

@DavidCarlisle yeah, terrible semifinal. One of the worst snooker games I've ever seen. The final should've been ding-selby again. Now selby has already won.

David Carlisle

@Moriambar the "of course" may have been a bit of ironic humour. Some would claim that the motorways are in a constant state of closure for roadworks although that probably isn't true (but it can seem that way sometimes:-)

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle oh I see. He seemed serious though. But the stream came and went and I could have missed the tone

David Carlisle

9:34 PM

@egreg you're so slow!

ebo

@DavidCarlisle @AlanMunn @egreg : 3 answers in less than 2 minutes... wow !

Thank you!

David Carlisle

@ebo only two different answers though:-)

egreg

@ebo You see, @DavidCarlisle is so slow!

ebo

@egreg Photo-finish is indeed in favour of you (-:

David Carlisle

@egreg I didn't get a "another answer posted" banner? Do you claim you posted first? Odd.

egreg

9:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle Check the time stamps.

David Carlisle

@egreg yes so it seems. Probably you cheated the back end:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Of course!

David Carlisle

@egreg It probably took me those 10sec to make the image:( but anway I'll delete, no point in duplicate answers

@egreg a present from me:-)

Moriambar

10:04 PM

well there's expl3 people here

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. Now there's also an expl3 version, of course.

Moriambar

quick question: if I have to create a function that predefines a tabular row (complete with &s, is it correct to say that my command has to set a tokenlist and that the tokenlist has to be used by \tl_use:N in the table?

egreg

@Moriambar Tables are bad beasts; it's usually best to build the table body in a tl variable and deliver it all at once.

Moriambar

@egreg all the rows are the same, except for a parameter, do you think it still applies?

basicaly I should append to the tl every time

sounds interesting

egreg

@Moriambar It depends on the table contents

Moriambar

10:11 PM

@egreg basically every row has a font switch, which is used for the calculations of e.g. ex-height, alphabet length. for each font switch I select, I have a row which consists of the switch name and the calculated values

David Carlisle

@egreg a present from wipet, I assume

Moriambar

I thought that delegating to a command the creation of the rows, the code would be more readable, and it would be easier to improve all the rows at once, by adding any other information

egreg

@DavidCarlisle s/from/for/

David Carlisle

@egreg :-)

egreg

@Moriambar Too abstract. Example?

David Carlisle

10:14 PM

@TeXnician not really sure about your l3doc question, basically the class is a thin wrapper around article+doc package to hack up whatever was needed for the team packages, if I was writing a package I'd probably just steal ideas from it but do some otehr article+doc based thing.

@TeXnician I note you're using luacode package, do you find it useful? I've never seen the point of it really.

Moriambar

that is the concrete example! let me rephrase that. `\__calcAll:n{\itshape}` calculates the alphabet length, the em width and ex-height of a font. I want that data in a table, but also with the same data for `\bfseries` etc.
Instead of having `\__calcAll:n{\itshape} \texttt{itshape}&\dim_use:N\_alph_dim& ...\\\ \__calcAll:n{\bfseries}\texttt{bfseries}&\dim_use:N\_alph_dim&...` and so on, I thought I could optimize the thing

egreg

@Moriambar Yes, sure

Moriambar

I thought of something like

`\cs_new:Npn\_typesetAll:n#1{ \__calcAll{#1} \tl_set:Non\_my_tl{\texttt{#1}&\dim_use:N\_alph_dim&...}`

And in the table typeset it would look like `\_typesetAll:n{\itshape}\tl_use:N\_my_tl\\ ...`

@egreg You think the token list should be built up during the construction of the whole table and evaluated only at the end?

(evaluated=\tl_use:N ed)

egreg

@Moriambar Again, without some real code to see, …

Moriambar

10:31 PM

@egreg well, I have no code. It was just an idea. Now I have a table exactly like a wrote above. I'll get on to work on it, thanks for confirming the tokenlist approach

egreg

@Moriambar Indeed, the problem is that you have to build the row before & ends a cell and restores the values. So building a tl is the right approach. Remember to expand the values.

Moriambar

@egreg Ok, thanks. Also for the expansion: did not think of that.

egreg

@Moriambar If you store \dim_use:N \l_tmpa_dim, this would not work.

Moriambar

It was one of my many concerns. right so I'll store the expanded values! thanks!
ps: I have yet to master the locality and globality of LaTeX variable assignments… it's filled my package with global variables!

David Carlisle

@Moriambar the other trap people fall into if building table rows within the table is that if you do it in the first cell of the row, then you can not use \multicolumn in that column as you have already started the cell. (it's possible to do the calculations in a \noalign to avoid this if needed

Moriambar

10:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh god, this is too advanced! Luckily I do not need multicolumn, but thanks for the heads up!

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends