LaTeX upload complete!

@JosephWright thanks for that. My last mail re font callback not quite right, the code is supposed to work if a callback already installed but apparently not, I'll try to sort it out today sometime, but I don't think it affects the release

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@DavidCarlisle Releasing just amsmath is rather easier than releasing everything

@JosephWright :-)

@JosephWright can you try github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/releases ...

This fails for me now:

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\end{document}

@JosephWright I'll raise an issue suggesting

--  luatexbase.reset_callback "define_font"
  for _,v in pairs(luatexbase.callback_descriptions(name))
  do
    luatexbase.remove_from_callback(name,v)
  end

@DavidCarlisle Seems to be OK to me: I'm checking I've go the right code installed!

@JosephWright the 2.8-rc3 code is using reset_callback which we didn't copy into the base code

@JosephWright I might be confused....

@JosephWright phew! confused by browser's annoying habit of renaming on download, I unpacked luaotfload.tds.zip but the thing I had just saved was luaotfload.tds(1).zip :-)

now back to trying test suite with 2.8....

@DavidCarlisle Ah, makes sense!

@DavidCarlisle I don't see reset_callback in either the zip or a checkout from GitHub

@DavidCarlisle Fingers-crossed, everything seems to be OK here

@JosephWright yes I've just re-jigged test2e to only install the modified font-callback if there is nothing currently there, which should be enough to force the same names for cm fonts as pdftex in the test suite, I've backed out the code that tries to merge that in with an existing callback. re-running full tests...

@DavidCarlisle Good stuff

@JosephWright will mean that xetex and luatex give different font names for duplicated font loading if we ever have tests that test the new font loaders but cross that when we come to it..

@DavidCarlisle Tricky but don't see a good way around it

@JosephWright @ChristianHupfer blaming you for breaking my packages:

@DavidCarlisle I can imagine Till's response to 'I want to use an external reference in a presentation'

@DavidCarlisle Should I post a (sort of non-) answer?

@DavidCarlisle I did not say it was @JosephWright's fault ;-)

@JosephWright not sure, probably it's covered by the linked question already, I didn't look that hard just waiting for the tests to run, but looking in the build directory I see I've broken all the luatex ones (or at least the font callback isn't restoring the old names) need to try again...

@ChristianHupfer blame is inherited

@DavidCarlisle Nope.... you can only blame @JosephWright for not addressing this issue right from the start when he took over the maintenance of beamer ;-)

@CarLaTeX awwwwwwwwwww

@barbarabeeton really? That sounds awesome! I will take a look later on today. I love calligraphy!

@PauloCereda :)

@CarLaTeX Thanks for being so kind

@PauloCereda ... are there'll be a part 2 :)! Do you like Milan?

@CarLaTeX it looks so beautiful!

@PauloCereda It's not a turist city as Rome, Florence or Venice, but also Milan is beautiful...

@CarLaTeX All cities have something to offer. :)

@PauloCereda :)

People around you might wonder why a puppet was taking selfies. :)

@PauloCereda Hahaha, don't worry, they are accostumed to see a lot of strange things around during fashion weeks!

Someting I really hated when in Barcelona was the amount of selfie sticks. :)

@PauloCereda Also here turists use selfie sticks, but I used only my arm!

@CarLaTeX :) I am not against the contraption itself, my fury was about people not taking care with others when using that thing! It could hurt bystanders!

@PauloCereda Oh yes, it may be dangerous!

@CarLaTeX Of course, a duck isn't dangerous, it's a lovely creature. :)

@Johannes_B: Happy belated penguin awareness day!

@PauloCereda Also penguins! :):):)

@PauloCereda Thans. Although it isn't nice to see so many species on earth are threatened.

@CarLaTeX Yes! :) We have a resident penguin!

@Johannes_B indeed.

@PauloCereda oooh

@CarLaTeX this was the cutest dialogue ever

@Johannes_B ^^

@PauloCereda Hahaha!

@CarLaTeX we are a bunch of wacky people here <3

@PauloCereda <3

@PauloCereda and very funny, too!

@CarLaTeX nah we are very smart

:)

For example, @DavidCarlisle uses vim

@PauloCereda Currently on the radio: I'm like a bird - Nelly Furtado

@Johannes_B ooh we need Shakira

Contigo, mi vida

@PauloCereda Someone told me @DavidCarlisle believes in another religion...

@CarLaTeX He secretly uses vim

@CarLaTeX: to be honest, he uses vim because he never managed to get out of the session so far. :)

@PauloCereda I have installed both Vim and Emacs, I'll try to learn a bit of them both to make my own judgement: tex.stackexchange.com/q/342615/101651

@CarLaTeX ooh very interesting background! I think nowadays the vim/emacs distance is no more, as lots of plugins from both fronts make editing productive regardless of the underlying tool. I have a friend who is a vim diehard and he uses emacs with evil (extensible vi layer) support.

@CarLaTeX: I usually recommend spacemacs.org and github.com/carlhuda/janus

@PauloCereda Ooooh, I think I'll take a year to try everything!

@CarLaTeX :)

@CarLaTeX simple: cut out vim and halve the testing time, clear proof that vim kills productivity

@DavidCarlisle boo

@DavidCarlisle That's against Galileo's scientific method!

@CarLaTeX of course. It is religious prejudice emacs against vim, you wouldn't expect Galileo to help in such issues.

@DavidCarlisle Help, the Emacs Inquisition!

@CarLaTeX :wq

@PauloCereda Let's escape!

@CarLaTeX :)

~
~
~                              VIM - Vi IMproved
~
~                               version 7.4.2367
~                           by Bram Moolenaar et al.
~                       Modified by <cygwin@cygwin.com>
~                 Vim is open source and freely distributable
~
~                           Sponsor Vim development!
~                type  :help sponsor<Enter>    for information
~
~                type  :q<Enter>               to exit
~                type  :help<Enter>  or  <F1>  for on-line help

@PauloCereda it doesn't work ^^

@DavidCarlisle clearly not in normal mode. :)

@DavidCarlisle ctan.org/pkg/pxtatescale

@JosephWright why didn't he just mail me?

@JosephWright mean while do you know anyone who understands luaotfload, I think i broke the test suite...

@DavidCarlisle Good question: I'll likely pick up the code for the expl3 drivers, adn we can easily add to the core ones

@DavidCarlisle Drop him a mail?

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Been around since 2013 according to the README

@JosephWright in test2e we fudge fontspec.ltx so the encoding stays at OT1 but \everyjob still switches the font loader to luaotfload then the code in test2e saves that definition and wraps that with code to try to preserve font ids.....

@DavidCarlisle Oops

@JosephWright but in some cases this causes lua errors in the lua font cache (errors that go to the terminal not the log) so don't show in the tlg

@PauloCereda Shakira on the radio :-)

@DavidCarlisle Not a disaster for testing, then?

@Johannes_B wooo

@DavidCarlisle The fix is pretty trivial ...

@JosephWright well I'm not sure exactly what happens after the error: in the base almost all fonts are preloaded and basically it all seems fine but I think it's causing issues in amsmath (or at least that is where I came in) first thought was only to add the font id code if no define_font callback is installed already but that would only work if we arranged the test base format not to load luaotfload and that seems to be taking the testing further from the real format. I may just leave it a bit

@JosephWright ideally I'd allow luaotfload, preserve font ids and not break the luaotfload cache, but not actually managed that this morning:-)

@JosephWright does "don't declare local functions as a global callback" sound like a good plan?

@DavidCarlisle Probably

@JosephWright so having stripped out almost everything, I'll see if I can rebuild it all....

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Any thoughts on the following?

@Johannes_B \xdef\@classoptionslist{a4paper,hyperref,amsmath,headinclude=true,ngerman,final‌​} ?

@DavidCarlisle My answer would be: Just do it like a normal person and don't create a fcking template, you little fcker. Sorry, Gordon Ramsay's kitchen nightmares overdose.

@Johannes_B it's old and unanswered just close as unclear (not the one above, but the do you want to take action comment that you pinged on site)

@DavidCarlisle Agreed.

@JosephWright dvilualtex :(

@DavidCarlisle Really should not be using DVI mode with LuaTeX!

@JosephWright well "we" carefully arrange a config file and arrange the format is distributed to millions of users, we can't complain too much if one of those users uses it....

@DavidCarlisle Sure (though it's there mainly as KB added dvilualatex after some people complained about the lack of DVI mode even though it's clear what the LuaTeX team feel on this)

@JosephWright but patch the format or state that you need \usepackage[OT1]{fontenc} or a dvi driver that understands otf fonts as loaded by luatex. I think really doing the latter is clearer in the long run/

@DavidCarlisle Yes, agreed

@Johannes_B Things like language are a feature of the document not the class (which should be language neurral): 'status bydesign'

@JosephWright Agreed.

@Johannes_B I see @DavidCarlisle's suggested a way around that anyway (always possible in TeX)

@JosephWright giving up on luaotfload today, just managed to scramble my brain and local checkout, I think I need to clear both.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@JosephWright and we just forced a dependency on this code....

@DavidCarlisle Code which 99.9% of real world users of the engine involved load anyway ...

@JosephWright not 99% of the users of the dviluatex engine:-)

I just tried to install LuaTeX 1.0, but failed, because I can't compile luaotfload. »make resources« for the glyphlist fails with error 255. Has anybody succeeded in building it from source?

@KeksDose Huh?

@KeksDose luaotfload is available from GitHub as a ready-to-install archive

Huhu!

From here: github.com/khaledhosny/luaotfload -- ?? I'm blind, where?

@KeksDose That's out-of-date: you want github.com/lualatex/luaotfload

@KeksDose It says 'Moved to github.com/lualatex/luaotfload'; right at the top!

@KeksDose Look under 'releases'

github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/releases/tag/v2.8-rc3

OK, found it. What a pity I did not realise earlier the link to the fork. And it's v. v2.8-rc3, right? However, thank you!

@KeksDose also with 2017/01/01 latex release the public ctan version of luaotfload should work with luatex 1.0

So an update of texlive would have been sufficient?

Sufficient, if I copied the new binary of LuaTeX into /texlive/2016/bin ?

By the way, building the formats ends with some errors, while LuaTeX and pdftex work!

fmtutil [ERROR]: running `pdftex -ini   -jobname=amstex -progname=amstex -translate-file=cp227.tcx *amstex.ini </dev/null' return status 1
fmtutil [ERROR]: return error due to options --strict
fmtutil [ERROR]: running `tex -ini   -jobname=lollipop -progname=lollipop lollipop.ini </dev/null' return status 1
fmtutil [ERROR]: return error due to options --strict
fmtutil [ERROR]: running `pdftex -ini   -jobname=eplain -progname=eplain -translate-file=cp227.tcx *eplain.ini </dev/null' return status 1

@DavidCarlisle Sorry, beginner here in the chat, forgot to address the comments to you.

@Johannes_B This is basically like my question here tex.stackexchange.com/q/147243/2388

@KeksDose texlive probably won't get the 2017 latex for a day or two (it went to ctan yesterday)

@KeksDose lollipop expected I think, pdftex/eplain don't know but I notice I don't have a pdfeplain in my texlive setup

@JosephWright So far quite interesting, O'Sullivan is enjoying the evening game, and then he's unbeatable.

@DavidCarlisle LuaTeX became so much faster during the last years. I simply was curious about v. 1.0. Had no idea that there will be a new LaTeX version solving some issues with it.

@DavidCarlisle And I have no idea, neither about lollipop, nor about eplain. Let's assume I can live with it.

@KeksDose well in this case it's just working around a typo in luaotfload, but in general in the releases since 2015 we've done a lot of work making things work better in lualatex and xelatex "out of the box"

@KeksDose no one ever used lollipop, and hardly anyone except Karl ever used eplain, so you'll probably get by without them.

@DavidCarlisle Have you become a purple square?

@egreg no?

@egreg ^^

@DavidCarlisle I've seen you for a moment, now you're again a purple square. Of course green is much better, everybody knows.

@egreg just call me barbara

@DavidCarlisle Now I see you again. Let me try

@DavidCarlisle OK, for now. Can you try sending two messages in a row?

do other people here see me ?

help I don't want to be a square like @egreg

@DavidCarlisle Still OK. Do a couple of reply lines, like in the ones I see you square

@egreg ????

@egreg ???????

@DavidCarlisle I see your usual photograph

@DavidCarlisle Now it seems OK.

@DavidCarlisle I was shocked, you know. It's more shocking than learning England beat Pakistan in a test match.

@egreg I predict an English player will win the masters snooker

@DavidCarlisle You should bet heavily, then.

@egreg I doubt many bookies would take that bet

@DavidCarlisle Bet on Pakistan vs England, then.

@DavidCarlisle I can give you odds 0.8:1

@egreg Should I bet on Chievo ?

@DavidCarlisle Not a good idea, I'm afraid: they're unpredictable.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle -- hmmmmmmmph!

@egreg @JosephWright shows to be as a cyan square in the right pane.

@barbarabeeton hello purple square

@barbarabeeton @barbarabeeton latex's gone to ctan, do you want us to send ltnews26 to you or can you pick it up from svn

@DavidCarlisle old photograph, nothing else.

@DavidCarlisle -- hello fuzzy face. there are several more purple squares recently that are much better imposters than the one @egreg showed for you. (something is going weird with this general site -- the disappearing double backslashes, the random substitution of avatars, ...) not in the best shape here ... have had bad cold off and on since before christmas, and gordon now in hospital with pneumonia. wish us well, please.

@DavidCarlisle -- i'll check with karl about the ltnews. want to make sure first that we're otherwise up to date.

@barbarabeeton hope you both get better soon.

@barbarabeeton oh! Forward him my "best wishes"!

Hi guys, short question: does anyone know if there is a code for "Im" (image of a function)?

@ShaVuklia \operatorname{Im}, or better \DeclareMathOperator \Image {Im} with \usepackage{amsmath} and then \Image (note that \Im is already reserved)

Ah, I didn't know about "\operatorname{}"

I think that's a good substitute for \text{}, because otherwise my teacher might complain that I'm using texts for operators:)

Thank you!

@ShaVuklia \text is completely wrong! (Would give wrong font in theorem statement for instance, and it has wrong spacing)

@ShaVuklia \text uses the wrong font and has the wrong spacing

Yea, exactly, that's why I'm here!

@yo' snap:)

@DavidCarlisle great minds ... you know :)

Anyhow, thanks a lot, and have a good night!

welcome! bye!

@ShaVuklia good night

@yo' -- thanks, shall do so. (i do hope we weren't responsible for your cold a couple of weeks ago. we may not have shown obvious symptoms, but we were germ-laden.)

@barbarabeeton don't worry, I've got similar symptoms as some other family members. The little beasts are just about everywhere!

@barbarabeeton Oh, that's bad news! Best wishes to both of you!

@egreg I was right: An Englishman won.

@DavidCarlisle Which one?

@DavidCarlisle you should have bet 10000 pounds, I would have given you 8000 back

@egreg the naughtier

@egreg Ronnie O'Sullivan

@DavidCarlisle but Joe played great! I enjoyed watching

@yo' something @egreg should consider when following English cricket, playing well is more important than wining

@DavidCarlisle -- "wining" ... is that supposed to be "winning" or "whining"? or maybe just to be followed by "dining"?

@barbarabeeton Definitely “whining”. :P

@barbarabeeton you are just using the wrong metric. It's within a couple of keys of being a correct word, so near enough correct for me. meanwhile @egreg and I agree for once: bug in amsart:-)

@DavidCarlisle I retracted the comment: it is definitely not a bug, but a wanted behavior.

@DavidCarlisle Apparently, when hyperref is involved, the \@ifempty{#8} test fails.

@DavidCarlisle -- reference for "this" bug? (plenty of known bugs in amsart. i've asked for permission to update until i'm blue in the face, but no satisfaction. i've kicked it up to the top level, jumping over several heads with no warning; let's see what happens; hoping it doesn't cost me my job.)

@barbarabeeton Here's the question

@barbarabeeton But I don't think it is: as I commented, there is a specific test in amsart.cls for the case the title is empty.

@egreg weird feature rather than bug:-)

@egreg btw, number of students for tomorrow's exam dropped from 66 to 54, meaning I can save a test variant for the next week. Great news!

@egreg I suppose I'll add a hyperref version:(

@egreg -- i've added a comment. it is intentional, but the loss of bolding with hyperref should be looked into, and i will.

\subsection{x} Text

\subsection{} Text

\subsection{} Text


\subsection{x} Text

@egreg @barbarabeeton 1.1 x the 1.1 is not bold, 1.4 x it is bold, one empty heading affects the font choice for all future headings....

@DavidCarlisle This is a bug!

@egreg @barbarabeeton undocumented feature alert^^^

@DavidCarlisle But it's possibly wanted so: if one subsection title is empty, then all should be

@DavidCarlisle -- okay, that's a bug. thanks. i guess authors have been consistent in their usage, otherwise that would have been picked up long ago.

@egreg all headings at all levels?

@DavidCarlisle -- need to get editorial opinion on this. i think experience so far has been that heading text usually disappears uniformly below a certain level. but we do need to have the same result with/without hyperref, and restricted to just where there is no heading text. (the basic article model on which amsart is based is too simplistic. but we really were only trying to remain tag-compatible!

@DavidCarlisle Ask the AMS ;-)

@barbarabeeton yes but see my example (posted full code in the answer) even if all subsections uniformly use empty heading text the formatting is inconsistent with the first section using medium weight number and all later ones using bold.

@barbarabeeton I added a couple of further patches. As far as I can see, line 1056 should have \gdef\@secnumfont{\bfseries} and \@seccntformat should end with code for globally resetting \@secnumfont to \mdseries.

@egreg -- i'll look at the details tomorrow, when i'm on ams time. (working on tug stuff today.) but even if valid and justifiable, i can't promise that a fix will be made any time soon, to my great distress.

@barbarabeeton you reminded me: nobody here probably wants to travel to Bachotek via Prague, right?

@yo' -- sorry, don't know the answer to that. (our plans may depend on circumstances beyond our control.)

@barbarabeeton i mean, for you it's not that interesting as you've got no direct flights to either Prague or something closer, but there may be people who can get to PRG directly but not to something significantly closer. And I plan to take a car...