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12:00 AM
@cfr BTW, I don't know if this is of interest to you, but there's been some really nice blog posts by a British linguist on a piece about women's language by Naomi Wolf in the Guardian. (Maybe you've seen this already) debuk.wordpress.com/2015/07/26/a-response-to-naomi-wolf
@cfr Yes, in fact that's about the only place that still has them, I think.
 
@SeanAllred Yes, who else? :-P
 
cfr
12:35 AM
@AlanMunn In the US, you mean? Places in the UK have them.
@AlanMunn Not seen it, no - thanks!
 
@cfr Yes, in the US. There are a few other places I guess, Boston and Philadelphia do as well. But neither NY nor Chicago do.
 
cfr
12:50 AM
@AlanMunn Anti-women and anti-Welsh? Never knew it was called 'uptalk' but sounds very much like one characteristic of the speech of a significant proportion of the Welsh population (especially in South-East Wales which includes some of the most deprived areas in the UK). In English or Welsh, though it is linked to Welsh patterns linguistically, I believe (but don't know - just what I've heard).
I even write that way in informal contexts - not always, but sometimes. Though I hardly qualify as part of the generation NW is targeting.
 
@cfr It's also widespread in N. America. But how can you write that way?
 
cfr
1:14 AM
@AlanMunn If I'm writing email, I tend to include question marks for what are grammatically sentences. But they are not really questions, either. Although I don't, in writing, do this unless there is, in fact, some degree of - not exactly uncertainty - but some sense of ', but isn't it?' Actually, is that even normal English? I don't think I'd ever literally say that in English. I think I use question marks where that construction would make sense to me in Welsh.
But my use of the question marks pre-dates my knowledge of that aspect of Welsh. At least - not entirely. But I wasn't as familiar with it, at least. But I'm sure it isn't dependent on the Welsh, even though I believe it is derived from it. Plenty of people speak that way who'd never speak a sentence (or a question) in Welsh.
@AlanMunn I obviously lived in the wrong bits.
 
1:30 AM
@AlanMunn That makes me a very sad duck. :(
 
cfr
1:51 AM
@PauloCereda Why?
@AlanMunn:
@AlanMunn Don't know how much philosophy you know or how famous some of it is.
(Famous outside philosophy, that is.)
 
 
5 hours later…
6:56 AM
No palindrome really
 
7:42 AM
Doh. Should be working but compelled to update unicode-math. Lucky for all the complaining unicode-math users :)
2
 
7:58 AM
@JosephWright — what do you think of the idea of (the option of) halting l3build.lua check after the first error of a test file?
 
@WillRobertson Certainly doable
@WillRobertson Probably I need to work out how to take proper options at the command line first! Ideally we'd have build check --engine=pdftex --halt-on-error <filename> or something like that
@PauloCereda Ideas on how to (quickly) implement command line argument grabbing in Lua? ^^^
@WillRobertson I'll log that and the wider issue (am waiting on some feedback on other 'immediate' LaTeX3 things, so it might happen quite quickly)
 
8:28 AM
@PauloCereda Looks like 'quickly' is github.com/mpeterv/argparse, but that might be a bit big to add to l3build (need to think about it)
 
@JosephWright Sorry I was unclear! I just meant halting the checking process after the first test file fails to validate — much easier perhaps? E.g., I usually have a test file "aaa-loading.lvt" that just loads the package — if I've screwed up and you can't even load the package properly, it would be nice to skip all the subsequent tests that will also break :)
 
@WillRobertson All understood, but as an option this feels like something you want at the point of use ('Do all the tests' versus 'Just give up if anything fails')
@WillRobertson We could just alter the behaviour, of course: might be as well
@WillRobertson The argparse idea has been in my head for a while: adding the engine at the end of the check line is not great anyway
@WillRobertson If we only want a couple of optionals I can do them easily :-)
 
9:27 AM
@JosephWright I will poke you today. :)
@cfr Nah, I was just being dramatic. :)
 
@PauloCereda At the moment, I'm wondering about just special-casing the options we are talking about adding: --engine and --[no]-halt-on-error
 
@JosephWright Got it.
 
@cfr Well, people could conceivably use it in any place, but the main usage is standalone as part of a document title, so I suppose it’s OK to use “y” or “yr”. I’ll include that in my next release of Polyglossia; we can always disable it later if it looks silly.
@PauloCereda Oh, I know this place :-)
 
@ArthurReutenauer Some bloke named Albert, I guess. :)
 
9:43 AM
@ArthurReutenauer ooh
 
@PauloCereda Tomten is Santa in Swedish – it was a slightly different character originally, but now he’s identified with Santa. The guy who sang that often presents the Christmas special on national TV. Actually, last year, he sang the schedule.
@PauloCereda That’s where I spend most of my evenings these days :-)
 
@ArthurReutenauer How nice!
@ArthurReutenauer ooh I've never been to a place like the Royal Albert Hall.
 
@PauloCereda There’s no other place like the Royal Albert Hall :-)
 
@ArthurReutenauer oooh
 
@PauloCereda But in this song he impersonates a rich kid from the posh area of Stockholm who complains that Santa is a communist because he deals out gifts to everyone indiscriminately, and ends by saying that the American should send out drones to blow up the North Pole.
 
9:55 AM
@PauloCereda @ArthurReutenauer: Good morning
 
@ChristianHupfer Good morning.
 
Hm, strange, my profile photo isn't shown left to the editor window here ...
 
@ChristianHupfer Hi!
 
Wow, 9 chat alerts :D
11 chat alerts..
Too late ... and all above my name /sob
 
yo'
10:17 AM
@ChristianHupfer you don't see your avvy there, just your name? Ah I see, you point it out couple comments above. Have you tried Ctrl+F5 (i.e., recache your browser)?
 
@yo' I've jumped of chat and came in... Reloading would have been easier of course
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer it's to a large extent equivalent ;)
This never-seen-before whether icon on Forecastfox says it all:
(whether forecast for Saturday.)
 
@SeanAllred Getting the hang of rebasing :-)
 
@yo' Summer ... I hate summer if it's hotter than 22°C ... Weather forecast for tomorrow: 36°C, heat for 6 weeks effectively now.
 
@Arthur: sometimes I feel like I have no culture at all. I've never experienced going to an opera, a concert, a show. Most things I know are very superficial. It seems people around me are no interested. I don't know much of my own country's history apart from the things taught in school, my political knowledge is narrow, and the list goes on. (ctd)
 
10:31 AM
@PauloCereda :-(
@PauloCereda I have the Prom on my PC today :-)
(Catching up: am going to try to listen to every one this year)
 
@Arthur: When I went to Spain, I noticed something very unusual for me: people of all ages, regardless of social status, getting the very same level of access to culture. I could not even afford a ticket to a soccer match, let alone a ticket to an opera. And people were discussing politics in the streets, talking about books they've read, operas and concerts they've seen. I was in panic because I've never experienced this before.
@JosephWright ooh :)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer aren't you in Central Europe? :D
 
@yo' The thermometer looks suspiciously smelly. :)
 
@PauloCereda I can't compare with Brazil, but sometimes I feel like Germany doesn't have culture any longer too, if I compare with your descriptions about Spain
 
yo'
@PauloCereda no as smelly as me. Oh, sorry.
@ChristianHupfer oh c'mon, that's not true!
 
10:35 AM
@yo' I am in Central Europe; Basically, I wish we would have Scandinavian summers here and winters as well.
 
@ChristianHupfer I think what I've seen in Spain applies to Europe as a whole. :)
Welcome to Brazil, where our winter is hotter than your summer. :)
2
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer yeah, the weather is crazy this summer, really.
Meanwhile in Math.SE chat:
in Mathematics, 13 hours ago, by Loong
This chat room occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humour (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors). Nevertheless, we expect community members to treat each other with respect.
 
@yo' I am sometimes disgusted about Co - Germans (;-)) Ok, I am not going to the Opera as well, but I am reading books, go to the cinema, read newspapers, visit museums, old castles... but we've got a bunch of people meanwhile which don't own a single book in their households, where education and culture are 'four-letter-words' (not literally of course)
 
@yo' boooooooo
:)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer I know what you mean.
 
10:39 AM
@ChristianHupfer ooh four letters! Is it duck? :)
 
@yo' And we have a bunch of people rioting against homes for refugees, luting houses, set them to fire
 
Yay, every German has a duck!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda needeth to say: their room is really bad.
 
@PauloCereda Not quite, but 'Jeder Deutsche hat einen Vogel' @Johannes_B
 
@ChristianHupfer Ich hab ein ganzes Nest voll ;-)
 
10:40 AM
@yo' It's like a friend of mine once said: when a country has Popular Republic of in their name, it's not a republic neither popular at all. :)
 
Sorry, I've to visit my father.
@Johannes_B Ich bin nicht überrascht...
 
@ChristianHupfer Have a great day!
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer and the problem is: you've got a reason, with so much immigration. We haven't got a reason for it, we have ZERO experience with Muslim immigration, and yet we protest and protest and protest. I really understood recently how Hitler got the power in Germany in the 30s.
 
Till later on.
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer later!
 
10:41 AM
@PauloCereda I’m heard that from other people, also from outside Europe.
 
@ArthurReutenauer oh. :(
Almost 70% of our prices are taxes. It's so very immoral.
@DavidCarlisle: How are the skiing activities? :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda That's a lot, especially if you don't get much from it. I mean, the taxes here (income tax, social security, VAT, import tax and excise) sum up to c. 50%, but you get quality heath system, reasonably good and free education, transportation services subsidized etc. Still I think we could get more :-(
 
@PauloCereda It’s hard for me to say because I don’t know the situation elsewhere, but surely you must have some opportunities in São Paulo? I would certainly hope that some of the cultural events would be affordable. Of course, in Europe we’re really privileged because the big cultural institutions usually have some level of support from the government, in exchange of which they have to offer some affordable tickets.
@PauloCereda In London the cheapest tickets for shows on the main stage at the Royal Opera House are under £10; during the Proms season there are over 1,000 tickets at £5 for each concert (standing, but with a very good view), etc. And as Joseph said, you don’t even need to go to the live show because almost everything is broadcast on the BBC and available on their website for free if you’re in the UK.
 
@ArthurReutenauer I've never prommed (I think you have to be based in London), but I have been to various Prom concerts: it is great
 
@PauloCereda I realise that you are not an expert on snow, but at 27C most snow melts
3
 
10:51 AM
@PauloCereda But again, there must be things in Brazil as well that are affordable. For Knuth’s sake, the conductor of the São Paulo orchestra comes to the Proms every year (twice this year), it must be possible to hear in your city too! ;-)
 
@ArthurReutenauer Oh definitely, São Paulo would offer a lot of opportunities. Sadly, the overall costs in SP are too expensive for me. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Not at very high pressures!
 
@DavidCarlisle No snow? I blame Al Gore and his global warming. :)
 
@ArthurReutenauer true but those pressures would be uncomfortable for the average English tourist
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer When @Paulo finally makes it to Europe, we'll grab him to some culture :-)
 
10:54 AM
@ArthurReutenauer I think the prices are almost the same considering the currency exchange, but do not forget that our currency is undervalued comparing to pounds. :) Besides, the average income of a typical Brazilian is low in general.
@yo' I want to see a pond full of ducks and I want to throw some bread crumbs!
@ArthurReutenauer See, I didn't know that! I blame the snow. :P
 
@yo' Yep. I could go to Národní dívadlo again :-)
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer you've been there? I went there only 3 times in my life, one of which was a disaster :D
 
@yo' I’ve seen Prodaná nevěsta one year on the anniversary day of Smetana’s :-)
 
yo'
But needed to say, I prefer small theatres -- recently I went to the theatre of Prague Conservatory, and that was soooo good! They played a famous musical about Czechoslovak bandits after 1918 and they played (and sang) really well!
 
@JosephWright Sure, the journey back can be a hassle if you don’t live in London. I’m fortunate that I can walk back home after the Proms.
 
yo'
10:58 AM
The tickets were at EUR 1.20
@ArthurReutenauer that was the disaster for me :D
 
@yo' In London there are tiny theatres at the back of pubs. I’ve been to this one: kingsheadtheatrepub.co.uk
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer oh the underground culture :D One of the smallest concert scenes in Prague is in the Balbin poetic pub with capacity about 6 tables by 5 people :)
 
@yo' It was my girlfriend who planned it, when she told me the name of the theatre I thought “that’s funny, it sounds like a pub’s name” (for whatever reason King’s Head and Queen’s Head are very common pub names in England). And it was a pub’s name.
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer :)
 
@PauloCereda Well, that’s sad. You’ll have to live in Europe then.
 
11:02 AM
@ArthurReutenauer I want to be English. <3
 
@PauloCereda Yes, I think we noticed ;-)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda You can change it a bit :) Just try to start organizing cheap concerts ;)
 
@yo' ooh :)
 
@yo' I think I paid something like that (50 CZK) to go to the Národní dívadlo. But that was in 2004.
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer standing or the 2nd gallery is still no more than 50CZK usually.
But last time I went there was on my parents season ticket (6 plays) -- they were away for one of the performances
 
11:48 AM
Jul 20 '12 at 12:26, by Paulo Cereda
I want to be German.
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh nien! I mean, oh no!
:)
 
12:06 PM
@PauloCereda Oh nein! ;-)
 
@Johannes_B :)
 
@cfr -- when you say "There's no standard for symbols or truth tables or anything much." do you mean "universally recognized" standard, or just within the community of logicians using latex? in particular, for symbols, are "recognized" symbols in unicode, or is there just no agreement on what symbols should be used for what concepts? (if there are recognized symbols that aren't in unicode, i can help.)
 
How do you guys approve the inclusion of a small space here: $x \, [ x \leftarrow X ] = X$
 
12:22 PM
@PauloCereda Stylistic decision.
 
@egreg Thanks. :) I was worried I was summoning some sort of bad keming entity. :)
 
yo'
1:17 PM
@PauloCereda I would consider your solution better, given $x$ is not a function call.
 
@yo' <3
 
Back on the siunitx rewrite
 
@JosephWright ooh xsiunitx? :)
 
@PauloCereda In a sense that is one of the problems
 
yo'
@JosephWright the backward compatibility killed a man
 
1:29 PM
@yo' Indeed
@yo' The thing with siunitx is from my own POV I can do everything I want and make changes: it's the weird stuff some users do that is the issue
 
yo'
@JosephWright you mean people not using the UI layer but the program layer?
 
@yo' No, I mean more the strange formatting I've had to add to allow people to do odd things. The original scope was quite 'tight'.
 
@JosephWright Pretty much what happened with arara as well.
 
@yo' Part of the need for a rewrite is to have a real programming interface
 
yo'
@JosephWright ah I see.
 
1:35 PM
@yo' Fixed
 
yo'
@JosephWright kk
 
:23256740 Have to see how the rewrite goes: the core part is relatively easy, it's all the table stuff that's horrid. Then again, I spotted a trick in pgfplotstable I'll likely pick up
 
yo'
well, this is difficult of course. It's no surprise that many people say IT projects are 80% discussions and design and 20% coding.
 
@yo' Indeed
 
yo'
because "we're not paid for lines of code, we're paid for features" (well, we're not paid at all, but that's another matter)
3
 
1:39 PM
 
@PauloCereda: I think I can never make it to Brazil if even the winter is warmer than summers here ...
 
@yo' Next job is to recode the number formatter: that and the unit formatter are the core of siunitx. (Even the font stuff I wonder about: I might have been better taking a different tack there.)
 
2:16 PM
Hey guys, is it ok for me to update an accepted answer with more info, or should I write my own? Is it ok to include answers that address users of orgmode here?
 
yo'
@AaronHall link?
 
71
A: LaTeX beamer presentation-package 16:9 aspect ratio?

Alexey VoinovIt looks like current version of beamer supports aspectratio option. \documentclass[aspectratio=169]{beamer} should do exactly that. Other possible values are: 1610, 149, 54, 43 and 32. By default, it is to 128mm by 96mm(4:3).

I have the orgmode beamer entry that does this.
My first inclination was to update it, but what I know of SE sites, that's not usually the best thing to do, so I'm just going to add an answer if orgmode info is ok to give.
 
yo'
@AaronHall I'm not sure what you mean by "orgmode" here
I'd say go for another answer; it can always be merged into the existing answer and deleted...
 
it's an emacs mode that turns its own flavor of markdown into anything. In my case, beamer.
 
yo'
@AaronHall I'm even more confused now. How can Emacs be the answer to anything? :D
I mean, what does the editor have to do with the papersize of your document?!
@Paulo ^^ you see? :D
 
2:23 PM
@yo' :D
 
@AaronHall No, do not update answers please -- rather provide new one.
 
yo'
@AaronHall well, that isn't really a good answer to that question, is it? The problem is that it answers a completely different question: How do you pass arguments to \documentclass in emacs-orgmode?
 
two examples, pretty good, eh?
 
yo'
and my apologies for being extremely straightforward
 
2:28 PM
It answered that question when I searched for it.
 
yo'
@AaronHall Maybe you were looking for the wrong question:
 
Maybe so.
 
yo'
1
A: Include custom file into header with org-mode

joonWhile I do not know a way to do this with a LaTeX file, you can use #+SETUPFILE: file (http://orgmode.org/manual/In_002dbuffer-settings.html) to include an external org file in exporting. Then you can use #+LaTeX_HEADER: in the external org file. For example, with the following in content.org: ...

Or maybe a new question should be asked...
however, the first hit in google for "latex orgmode class option" is orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/examples/article-class.html which contains the information...
 
Maybe so. But I don't have time to write it up right now.
I just wanted to make a small contribution and make sure I don't screw it up.
 
yo'
@AaronHall Well, don't worry too much. I'm just pointing out how I see it, nothing more
 
2:35 PM
Woo hoo, I love Stack Exchange!
2
 
3:26 PM
@egreg: Is \xpatchcmd very tricky when a command has a lot of \if...\fi inside it? Can it look into the branch and change code there?
 
forest = for the in latin drops the mic, walks awaypercusse yesterday
@percusse I must contest
 
@ChristianHupfer It's agnostic with respect to \if...\fi; it does “pattern matching”.
 
@egreg I see, so I have to provide the full \if...\fi for pattern matching then?
 
@ChristianHupfer No, why?
 
@yo' That actually made me laugh out loud.
 
3:32 PM
@egreg Hm, I've tried \xpatchcmd with some command which has some nested \if...\fi, but it did not succeed in patching,although I just wanted to add one ordinary line (vertical spacing).
 
@ChristianHupfer If you have to replace \ifx\foo with \ifx\baz, just specify those tokens.
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer :-D
 
@ChristianHupfer And if \foo appears just once, you can do \xpatchcmd{\cs}{\foo}{\baz}{}{}
 
@egreg: No, the \if... is completely untouched, it's only the 'false' branch inside to be changed.
@egreg: Perhaps I should ask a question...
 
@ChristianHupfer Can you show the example?
 
3:40 PM
@egreg: I'll try, but I think it's better to ask a question. The code is too long for here, I think
 
@PauloCereda Your parcel is “on its way to Curitiba” according to the Royal Mail tracking page. Not sure why it would go there and not to São Paulo directly, but that’s what the website says (well, actually it says “ON IT WAY TOCURITIBA” and for a while I was looking for “Tocuritiba”).
 
@ArthurReutenauer ooooooh <3
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer Could this be the reason (or a similar one)? adarquitetura.com.br/en/projetos.asp?codigo=56 :D
 
@ArthurReutenauer Brazil has an unusual postal system. Or perhaps the flight entered Brazil through Curitiba, and then it will be forwarded to a distribution center in São Paulo. :)
@Arthur: I am very curious!
 
3:58 PM
@PauloCereda Be patient :-)
 
@PauloCereda Phantomime Goose? :-P
 
@StefanKottwitz golatex.de/viewtopic,p,74833.html#74833 Can you fix that?
 
howdy
 
Howdy @morbusg
 
4:01 PM
how was tug?
 
@ChristianHupfer Duck! Respect the patent! :)
@morbusg Hi!
 
@PauloCereda Duck... goose... all the same :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh blasphemy! /gets pitchfork
/pokes @ChristianHupfer
 
@PauloCereda I find your lack of respect disturbing deep breath
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh no!
 
4:04 PM
@PauloCereda What about if something attacks you with a Brazilian pitchfork.... Shut up! :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer LOL
@morbusg Very productive, it seems. :)
 
@PauloCereda: Try to poke me with this lightsaber pitchfork then :D
 
@ChristianHupfer :)
 
I see @Jubobs gave an interesting talk. I wonder if there's some material online one could check out on that
 
@morbusg soon we will have the videos. :)
 
yo'
4:10 PM
@morbusg The TUG15 videos are almost ready!
 
@Paulo, @yo' Cool! :)
 
@morbusg I heard there were ducks too!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda Karl sent a mail just today asking for the "copyright transfer" (basically, just asking us to allow them to publish the videos). You'll finally hear my bad accent :D
 
@yo' woooo
 
@egreg @HeikoOberdiek: Thanks -- I'll throw a dice for accepting ;-)
 
4:17 PM
@Paulo oh no, ducks everywhere :)
 
@morbusg <3
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer why I read "I'll throw a duck ..."?
 
@yo' I've no idea... rumours has it that there's a duck-addict amongst us, but don't share this secret, ok? ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer :-)
ok, gotta go now. I have to finish the TB article and my the draft of my application tonight, so I'll likely pop in later on :)
 
4:34 PM
@yo' You mean when the god of procrastination will lure you again to the chat ;-)
@yo' Or the daemon of procrastination, rather.
 
yo'
@ArthurReutenauer this.
 
@yo' See you
 
@yo' Good luck in any case!
 
yo'
but you know, I need distraction, to some extent. My attention span is quite short
 
5:12 PM
@morbusg Although I don't blame you for sticking to Mavericks, I don't think the situation with El Capitan is as dire as I first thought. Of course there's the minor issue of your Mac looking more and more like your phone (if you have an iPhone). But that started with Yosemite.
 
ln -s /usr/texbin /Library/TeX/texbin
<3
 
@PauloCereda No, this won't work, because access to /usr (but not /usr/local) is completely ruled out.
 
@AlanMunn I see. Surely there will be some command line thingy we can issue to override this odd behaviour?
 
@AlanMunn Sticking with Mavericks at present as my work VPN doesn't work with Yosemite
@PauloCereda Kernel-level, so change setting, reboot, etc.
@PauloCereda Like tripwire
 
@PauloCereda Practically, no. Literally, yes, but really not advised.
 
5:22 PM
@AlanMunn @JosephWright: I say, gentlemen, I do believe we're in quite a spot of bother.
@ArthurReutenauer: ^^ do I sound English? <3
 
@PauloCereda No, I think the issue is overblown.
 
@AlanMunn :(
Wait a minute, I could profit with some sort of iArara. :)
 
@PauloCereda You mean you want it to be bad?
 
@AlanMunn Uh-oh, language problems. :) No, I don't want it to be bad. :) Unless bad is good. :)
 
@PauloCereda The number of 'normal' users adding stuff to /usr is pretty small
@PauloCereda There's the whole /usr/local versus /opt business too :-)
 
5:26 PM
@PauloCereda I was worried when I heard that access to /usr was disallowed, because I interpreted that as /usr and everything below. But it's not that, it's just /usr at that level, Since access to /usr/local is still allowed, I think most things will be fine. Almost everything I have extra is in /usr/local since I've never been a fan of any of the package managery things I've tried.
 
@AlanMunn Same story here
 
@JosephWright In fact, had MacTeX put the link in /usr/local in the first place we would not be having this discussion at all. But that's ancient history.
 
@AlanMunn Indeed
 
@AlanMunn I had a quick look at how El Capitan works with its rootless mode and it seems an interest concept. The only thing that bothers me is the fact it could have some sort of exception list, not something like love it or leave it. It's like the endless discussion with the software firewalls like SELinux or AppArmour; turning them off is not that advisable.
@AlanMunn We could go back in time!
 
@PauloCereda Well my intuition is that Apple actually know what they're doing. Because there are plenty of really sophisticated Mac users out there, and I don't think Apple will deliberately alienate them. I suspect for most of us it will have no ill-effects.
 
5:33 PM
@AlanMunn Indeed. To be honest, softwares that try to do stuff outside their walls are to blame.
 
6:05 PM
@PauloCereda Have you ever taken a peek at Clojure?
 
@SeanAllred I did. :) I wrote a couple of things in it, highly recommended. :)
 
@PauloCereda Would you be opposed if I used arara as something to recreate in Clojure? This is mainly how I learn languages when there aren't pressing problems to solve :) After all, they say imitation is the highest form of flattery <3
Who knows, it might be concise enough to simplify arara-proper.
 
@SeanAllred Time to open my heart.
 
@PauloCereda I don't know whether to be excited or frightened.
'Opening one's heart' is a command in the Shakespeare Programming Language, if my absurdly useless memory serves.
 
6:21 PM
@Sean, to be completely honest with you, I had the same intention of rewriting arara in Clojure. The only reason I didn't do it is because Clojure required Java 1.6 and I wanted arara to remain Java 1.5 compliant (as 4.0 is already). But it is surely a great language to have fun.
 
@PauloCereda Hmm, that definitely is a concern.
 
That said, if you want to glue them together, import arara.jar into your Clojure code and use the classes and methods as your heart desires. So you can have something operational out of the box. :)
@SeanAllred Not a big concern, I'd say, because we are with Java 9 in the horizon. Maybe arara 5.0 will drop the 1.5 support.
 
@PauloCereda @PauloCereda Oh, but the real fun is in the guts!
 
@SeanAllred That so true. :)
 
@PauloCereda I wonder if Oracle has metrics for Java version adoption. If v1.5 really is that old (>10--15 years), I'd say 'bring on the future', personally.
 
6:26 PM
@SeanAllred Interesting thought, let me check. :)
 
@SeanAllred LOL those bastards.
@Sean: Actually, it's like some other open source projects; they fix stuff from at most 1 or 2 versions behind current.
 
@PauloCereda :) It looks like it's pretty dead. 0/758 JVMs are on 1.5 as of 2015.
 
@SeanAllred Interesting. So Java 6 it is for v5.
:)
 
@PauloCereda :)
 
6:29 PM
@SeanAllred <3
@Sean: by the way, I will answer the new issue with some ideas too. :)
 
@PauloCereda I've yet to really touch Java for a long time. I should really check out all these new features. Last time I was working with Java, we were getting pumped for 1.7!
 
@SeanAllred Lambdas are something you should check. :) I highly recommend.
 
@PauloCereda Oooh :) I look forward to them.
 
Actually, expect an email from me later on. :)
 
@PauloCereda :D I heard about those! I was afraid they wouldn't have been implemented well.
 
6:32 PM
@SeanAllred I love this GIF. <3
 
@PauloCereda I never know a grown duck could be so adorable.
 
@SeanAllred It was somehow tricky, but the result was somehow nice and fluent. Not the best approach, but surely doable.
 
@PauloCereda I've been watching a lot of talks on functional programming lately. It's been suggested that Java has dug itself so deeply into OOP that it can't really get out -- anonymous functions don't really fit the paradigm, so it's not surprising that they would be a little awkward.
I'm interested to read up on how they did it :)
 
@Sean: I remember those folks at Apache Commons writing functors, predicates, aggregators, etc, with Java 5. That's why I use their libraries a lot, those guys really work hard on their code. :)
 
@PauloCereda Those folks working on Apache are simply gods among men. Nothing special.
 
6:36 PM
@SeanAllred Quite possibly. :) When you have some spare time, take a look on how much languages are built in on top of JVM. When I wrote nightingale as a sandbox for arara, I used Groovy as rule language; that thing was insanely overpowered. :)
@SeanAllred They are! On the Google alley, their libraries change interfaces on every bloody version. It's very frustrating (that's even true with their App Engine APIs!).
 
@PauloCereda Sing, sweet nightingale. I did hear a lot about Groovy a few months back -- isn't it basically Make on the JVM?
 
@SeanAllred Heavens, no! You are thinking of Gradle, which is a DSL written in Groovy. :) That thing is basically a [hash]map. :)
 
@PauloCereda That seems like a bad idea. I wonder why they would even bother implementing interfaces if they were going to change every release.
 
@SeanAllred I am super cereal. :)
@Sean: Groovy is very interesting, take a look when you have some time. :) I didn't like Scala, but that's mostly personal taste.
 
@PauloCereda Will do. And anybody who doesn't like Scala is a friend of mine :)
 
6:39 PM
new File('/path/to/file').eachLine { line ->
  println line
}
^^ Groovy. :)
 
@PauloCereda My, that is groovy.
 
@SeanAllred <3
@SeanAllred The Groovy blokes injected some fancy features into "common" classes. :)
@Sean: Expect an email. :)
 
@PauloCereda It's the only way to go. If you just provide 'replacement' classes, 1) they will break 2) if they're adopted.
@PauloCereda :)
Oh goodness, that reminds me! @JosephWright I'll respond to your question about my suggestion on LaTeX-L (the \bool_validate:n business) tonight.
Sorry, it just kinda got buried.
 
7:08 PM
Interesting little tidbit, by the way, regarding that OOP vs functional comment, is that the same guy (Guy Steele) who co-wrote the Scheme design and implementation, also wrote the original Java specification.
 
@morbusg 'that comment'?
@ChristianHupfer What's with the new avatar, BTW?
@barbarabeeton Still in Europe?
 
@JosephWright :23264010 oh yeah, this comment.
that didn't work
 
@morbusg Permalink?
 
@PauloCereda Hummingbird
 
7:12 PM
@JosephWright I don't get you?
 
@morbusg Ah
@ChristianHupfer You don't always looks so, erm, serious
 
@JosephWright This is a matter of installing stuff, which i think is off-topic. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/258511/… Please see the comment i made a minute ago.
 
@JosephWright I wanted to show you (all) my badass serious side ;-)
 
@JosephWright -- no, back at the office. arrived in providence late monday afternoon. still haven't unpacked my notes, though, so if there's something i need to be reminded about, please remind me. (task number one is "cleaning off" the old ams vax/vms machine; it's due to be unplugged about 1 september, and i've still got a lot of stuff regarding stix, tex bugs, and tugboat parked there.)
 
@JosephWright: Do I inspire seriousness? :)
@barbarabeeton yaaaay, welcome back! <3
 
7:26 PM
Videos starting to appear: some marked private at the mo it seems
 
@JosephWright Yay!!! Global Super Mega star requested:-)
 
@Johannes_B Done
@Johannes_B Currently only one video seems to actually work
 
@JosephWright Oh :-( I was excited.
 
@JosephWright YES YES YES
 
@Johannes_B I guess it's just a question of Kaveh doing the work
 
7:31 PM
@JosephWright In the first minute, do i see the heads of Hans and Stefan?
 
Only the first video is available. :(
 
@Johannes_B I can see Martin Schröder and Boris Vetysman
@PauloCereda Like I say, I'm sure Kaveh is on it
 
@JosephWright :(
 
@JosephWright So i cannot recognize people by the back of their head :-D
 
@Johannes_B I'm at the advantage of having been sitting just the other side of the central isle, more or less with a view akin to the camera
 
7:35 PM
@JosephWright I hope my clients don't listen to this :-D
 
cfr
@barbarabeeton I really meant in terms of TeX support. I don't know if the symbols are in unicode or not. Also, I'm not sure if unicode goes by meaning or semantics e.g. if two symbols look the same but have different meanings, is that two unicode slots or one? One thing which lots of packages do is define logical symbols in terms of existing symbols. Unfortunately, they don't always do this correctly or consistently. And some symbols are defined by packages which construct them on-the-fly.
 
@cfr -- thanks for the clarification. unicode allegedly goes by meaning. they used to go (with respect to symbols, not alphabets) almost strictly by appearance, but faced with good examples showing two symbols with the same shape but different meanings/usages/spacing, in the same document, they were forced to change their tune. so now, two symbols that look the same but clearly have different functions will (or at least should) have two unicode slots.
 
@JosephWright The grand wizard :D
 
i know the usage of latex packages isn't consistent; that's well demonstrated by examples in the comprehensive symbols list. i'm trying to nibble away at the edges of the problem, and since i still have good contacts on the unicode technical committee, can actually get things into their pipeline and likely to get them approved. so if you know someone who can make a competent review of unicode vs. logic, that could well be worth the effort.
@ChristianHupfer -- indeed. i have seen him on a bicycle around stanford, but i've never seen him with a bicycle helmet on. interesting ...
 
8:23 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle's talk is still missing.
 
@egreg :-)
 
8:42 PM
@egreg ooh was it about snow? :)
 
8:52 PM
@PauloCereda I don't know, I went out for a walk. :P
 
@egreg :)
 
@barbarabeeton I envy you to know D.E.K personally :-(
 
@ChristianHupfer -- i assure you, it's not something i planned! i just happened to be in the right place at the right time -- all serendipity.
 
9:07 PM
@barbarabeeton Such meetings can't be planned ...
 
@egreg I don't need to give a talk, people are honoured to show my code in their talks.
3
 
user image
3
@DavidCarlisle This one? ^^^^^
 
@egreg something like that...
 
@egreg: David's talk consists basically of latex.ltx opened in an emacs buffer. :)
 
@PauloCereda fed through emacs speak, while I'm in the bar sampling the local hospitality
 
9:22 PM
@DavidCarlisle ooh :)
 

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