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12:19 AM
My new cellphone has arrived. :)
Hello, is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?
arara reached 90 stars on GitHub!
4
       ..---..
     .'  _    `.
 __..'  (o)    :
`..__          ;
     `.       /
       ;      `..---...___
     .'                   `~-. .-')
    .                         ' _.'
   :                           :
   \                           '
    +                         J
     `._                   _.'
        `~--....___...---~'
                           ,..--------...
                     ,.--'|              /''-..
                 ,-''      \            /      `-.
              ,-'           \          /          `-.
            ,'               |        /              `.
          ,'                 .       /                 '
         ,\_              _,,'-------`._             ,- `.
        /   `._       .-''              `-.        ,'     \
      ,'       `._ _,'                     `.   ,-'        \
     /           .'                          `\'            \____
 
 
3 hours later…
3:42 AM
Hi Paulo, long time no see (my bad). Good to read that arara is still going strong :)
 
 
2 hours later…
5:16 AM
@DavidCarlisle A unique opportunity to revolutionize vacuum symbolism with a bit of creativity.
 
6:14 AM
@PauloCereda Be careful with the ducks, the vacuum cleaner of @DavidCarlisle is on the loose.
5
 
 
4 hours later…
9:45 AM
@HeikoOberdiek Oh no! :)
@Xavier Hi Xavier! :) How are you, pal?
 
10:16 AM
@egreg: back home? :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes. I miss being on the road, though.
 
@egreg :)
@egreg: you can come visit me. :)
 
@PauloCereda Carrying the bike on a canoe?
 
@egreg Exactly. :)
 
@PauloCereda Not sure that canoe is good for my 250 kg bike. For crossing the Atlantic it's possibly good, though.
 
10:32 AM
@egreg you could put your bike inside a macro. :)
 
@PauloCereda Wouldn't a micro be even better?
 
@StephanLehmke ooh that's even better. :)
@StephanLehmke This reminds me of a certain paragraph of a vim book:
:)
 
The world must be coming to an end. Whatever you can think of, somebody has already invented it ;-)
 
@StephanLehmke Indeed. :) As South Park once put it, Simpsons already did it. :)
 
10:52 AM
@yo': Tom!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda wazzap, pal? :D
 
11:04 AM
@yo' nothing much, apart from a new cellphone. :)
 
11:43 AM
Why when adding a picture to an answer with the new interface we get [![enter image description here][1]][1] instead of ![enter image description here][1]?
 
yo'
@egreg So that large images get always linked as if they were thumbnails?
 
@yo' was gonna say that.
@egreg The inner part is the image, the outer one is the hyperlink.
 
@yo' Is there an interface for adding thumbnails besides the large image?
 
yo'
@egreg no, I don't think so. The idea is that you get the same image (most people don't care about the bandwidth), but it's small in the post and large after clicking it
Where is @Werner when you need the proper link to MSE?! :D
 
12:05 PM
@yo' Let's summon him!
@Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner
 
@PauloCereda And let's be surer about it:
@Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner
 
@egreg ooh :)
Everybody, let's summon @Werner! :)
 
12:28 PM
@PauloCereda Does he get one ping per message, or one ping per @?
 
@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT.,@Torbjør‌​nT.,@TorbjørnT.,@TorbjørnT., now you should know:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, thanks. (The former -- one per message)
 
@TorbjørnT. so
@TorbjørnT. @PauloCereda
@TorbjørnT. should
@TorbjørnT. have
@TorbjørnT. this
@TorbjørnT.?
 
@DavidCarlisle (u)p-TeX support developing :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed.
 
12:32 PM
@JosephWright have you looked at uplatex.ini ... just when we'd got the *latex.ini files under control:( \newcommand\printglossary ? \newcount\hour ?
 
@DavidCarlisle Not yet :-)
@DavidCarlisle They have very different requirements, of course
 
yes there's lots of it to do with adding two parallel encoding things for kanji and roman, and the two directions, but then there is stuff that is just grabbing names all over eg `\newdimen\Cht
\newdimen\cht
\newdimen\Cdp
\newdimen\cdp
\newdimen\Cwd
\newdimen\cwd
\newdimen\Cvs
\newdimen\cvs
\newdimen\Chs
\newdimen\chs
\newdimen\cHT`
 
@DavidCarlisle Is that in uplatex.ltx?
 
@JosephWright plcore.ltx but input from there yes
 
@PauloCereda: A new iduckphone? Ring tone is a steady quack?
 
12:37 PM
@DavidCarlisle I think this is rather different from the LuaTeX/XeTeX business: pLaTeX is a very different beast from LaTeX, as shown by the number of source files, etc.
@DavidCarlisle This is going to make testing a bit interesting: I'm working out what is best
 
@JosephWright yes but comes back to the question of whether it can be a supported format in the sense we hope to make xetex and luatex supported, or if the best we can hope for is just not breaking it
 
@TorbjørnT. Just one. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle I see your point
 
@ChristianHupfer Quackphone. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ducks flying from A to B, transmitting the message, in NSA - proof Ducryption Surround Sound?
 
12:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle Does the addition I've just made to l3build make sense: that's needed by anyone wanting to use l3build with (u)platex, even if we don't formally extend support
 
@ChristianHupfer You are the physicist, help me encrypt the quacks. :)
 
@JosephWright yes not tested it but it looked sensible to me
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll probably normalise out their direction info too
 
@Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner
 
@JosephWright I'd just remove the horizonatl one (whichever that is) just as in luatex I think we just remove TFT then if there are any boxes that go vertical they will show up
 
12:44 PM
@DavidCarlisle Exactly: that's again support for l3build + (u)p-TeX even if we don't want to actually test expl3 that way
 
@PauloCereda Talking to you is encryption enough -- you're a complete riddle ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Am I? :)
 
@JosephWright speaking of luatex luaotfload currently ends with \RequireLuaModule{luaotfload-main} (just after \RequirePackage{luatexbase}) it would be good to guard the RequirePackage{luatexbase} by something so that in a future format it does nothing, simplest would be ` \ifdefined\RequireLuaModule\else\RequirePackage{...}` but that would mean adding \RequireLuaModule to the kernel level support, currently it's in emu-luatexbase but anything using fontspec ends up with emu-luatexbase
@JosephWright agreed
 
user image
2
@ChristianHupfer: ^^
 
@PauloCereda Nananananananana Batmaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
 
yo'
12:47 PM
@PauloCereda this is some deviant art :D
 
@DavidCarlisle Make a pull request: I'm sure they'll take such a change
 
@yo' LOLOLOL
@ChristianHupfer Allow me:
Dec 15 '12 at 18:22, by egreg
@PauloCereda ans~=~\prg_replicate:nn {11}{NaN~}Batman!
:)
 
@JosephWright yes I was going to but should I put \RequireLuaModule into the (ltluatex) kernel so that luaotfload can test for that and not load luatexbase?
 
@PauloCereda Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo expl3
 
@ChristianHupfer LOL
 
12:50 PM
@ChristianHupfer Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo:c{expl3}
2
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah, I see your point
@DavidCarlisle Couldn't they just test for something like \newluafunction (only we supply it)?
 
@JosephWright yes but then if \newluafunction` is there what does it do about \RequireLuaModule define it or avoid it and do \directlua{require instead?
 
@DavidCarlisle \code_that_sucks_module_boooooooooooooo:c{expl3}
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer @Joseph might beat you up for not registering the prefix code first :D
 
@yo' I'll live with that, I suppose :-P I am not going to make my command into kernel :-P
 
12:54 PM
@yo' :-)
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, yes
@DavidCarlisle I guess we are stuck with \RequireLuaModule
 
@JosephWright well I could try a pull request that uses \directlua{require in the ltluatex branch see if they accept that?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, that would be better, really
 
@JosephWright which reminds me of the second problem attempt to call local 'reset_callback' (a nil value) luaotfload does a reset of the define_font callback before its used, which doesn't seem necessary really (and doesn't work if only the core ltluatex is loaded) I suppose I just try to remove that in the pull request....
@JosephWright and then Will does \RequireLuaModule{fontspec} in fontspec....
@WillRobertson home?
 
1:15 PM
Meanwhile...
@Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner @Werner
 
yo'
@PauloCereda That bad feeling that you started a landslip :D
 
@yo' uh-oh. :)
 
yo'
! No room for a new \mathgroup .
\ch@ck ...\else \errmessage {No room for a new #3}
                                                  \fi
l.88 \DeclareSymbolFont{stmry}{U}{stmry}{m}{n}
Oh no! ^^^
 
@yo' latex 2015?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle no, still TL14
but \RequirePackage{etex} changes the error to:
! LaTeX Error: Too many math alphabets used in version normal.

See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type  H <return>  for immediate help.
 ...

l.244 ...with the inverse limit space $\inverselim
                                                   \bZ[\beta]/\beta^n\bZ[\be...
 
1:21 PM
@yo' actually you still only have 16 in 2015 in pdftex. In xetex/luatex I told latex you can have 256 (sometimes)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle yeah, if only xetex worked...
the point is, I'd like to take the missing Euler math alphabets from Palatino (for instance cal and bb)
 
@yo' the other way of course is not define so many symbol fonts (math alphabets are not a problem they only get allocated if used)
 
yo'
I'll just grab the important parts of newpxmath from the sty file
oh no, I still get Too many math alphabets used in version normal.
I remember now that I had this problem with Euler before and it actually stopped me from using it :-(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 
@yo' mwe?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle currently about 2000 lines of code :D I'll try to work on that
 
1:28 PM
@yo' do you really want 16 alphabets or do you really want 2 new ones and it's easier to allocate two more (unless you run out) than redefine the already allocated ones?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure, I'll have to see
 
@yo': Tom, have you solved your Tex Gyre thingy problem?
 
@yo' if you really want more than 16 the answer is simple: tough you can't:-) If you only want half a dozen but you want euler instead of ams or whatever then answer is; it depends.
 
$ sudo cp $(kpsewhich -var-value TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texlive-fontconfig.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
$ sudo fc-cache -fsv
@yo' ^^ Tom, run these and try your code again.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda yes, by going back to pdflatex
 
1:32 PM
@yo' Could you try the commands and re-run your XeLaTeX code again? :)
 
yo'
\RequirePackage{etex}

\documentclass{amsart}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{euler}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{microtype}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{bm,stmaryrd}

\begin{document}

mathcal $\mathcal{A}$

mathtt $\mathtt{Aa}$

bm $\bm{x}$

operatorname $\operatorname{H-lim}$

math $x = \sum_{i=0}^\infty \varprojlim a:b - c + d$

ll/rrbracket $\llbracket x\rrbracket$

\end{document}
@DavidCarlisle ^^
 
@Nasser, I did not know the option either. But I did what I usually do, look in the source (it's Perl), and noticed that it did something different when --verbose was given.
 
\RequirePackage{etex}

\documentclass{amsart}

\newcommand\bmmax{2}
\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{euler}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{microtype}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{bm,stmaryrd}

\begin{document}

mathcal $\mathcal{A}$

mathtt $\mathtt{Aa}$

bm $\bm{x}$

operatorname $\operatorname{H-lim}$

math $x = \sum_{i=0}^\infty \varprojlim a:b - c + d$

ll/rrbracket $\llbracket x\rrbracket$

\end{document}
@yo' ^^
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle what's the difference for me?
 
@yo' \newcommand\bmmax{2}
 
yo'
1:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle I've noticed. I mean, what's the issue behind? (I can ask a question on the site if you wish)
 
@yo' actually 3 also works but the default 4 is too many
@yo' texdoc bm section 2 :-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle ok thanks, I'll check. But before that I want to make another test
How can you redefine \mathbb and \mathcal?
 
@yo' basically bm by default tries to make every font available also in bold, which means that you only have 8 slots not 16 if you want each in normal and bold
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle so ... loading bm before loading other font packages would work, too?
\RequirePackage{etex}

\documentclass{amsart}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage{euler}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{microtype}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{bm}%,stmaryrd}

\DeclareSymbolFont{AMSb}{U}{npxsyb}{m}{n}
\SetSymbolFont{AMSb}{bold}{U}{npxsyb}{b}{n}
\DeclareFontSubstitution{U}{npxsyb}{m}{n}
\DeclareSymbolFontAlphabet{\mathbb}{AMSb}

\begin{document}

mathcal $\mathcal{A}$

mathtt $\mathtt{Aa}$

bm $\bm{x}$

mathbb $\mathbb{N}$

operatorname $\operatorname{H-lim}$
^^ another failure
 
@yo' yes but then it doesn't see them at all and so allocates bold fonts for the original fonts that you are about to redefine, it's normally best to load it last
 
yo'
1:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle so this 2 makes it explicit I want only letters and greek, or what does it do?
 
@yo' \mathbb isn't a problem as its a math alphabet
 
yo'
oh I should probably read the mmanual, right? :D
 
0
Q: Are questions about PTC arbortext welcome?

RSinoharaI read the topics page, it does say TEX, LaTEX, etc... or "and related systems", yet I am not sure if this is where I could try for PTC arbortext answers. Arbortext and styler are pretty common, but the consensus about it is that it lacks the most basic support. There is a forum where you can ...

'Not really'?
 
@yo' yes it's a bit complicated:-) bm tries several ways of making things bold, and that just limits its enthusiasm for using the quickest way
@JosephWright no
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle and could \newcommand\hmmax{0} help?
 
1:46 PM
@yo' only if you use \mathversion{heavy} (that is extra bold, only mathtime fonts have math in three weights as far as i know)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle ok, thanks. Now, last thing is, why grep mathcal newpxmath.sty gives nothing useful?
I mean, how in the world is mathcal defined actually?
 
@yo' presumably it doesn't redefine mathcal:-)
@yo' \DeclareSymbolFontAlphabet{\mathcal} {symbols}
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle but the glyphs are different
 
@yo' caligraphic letters are assumed to be in the main symbol font.
@yo' it's a different font:-)
 
yo'
ah so I can't easily change \mathcal for Euler because it's mixed with the symbols. Shit.
And loading the symbols font from newpxmath and using it for mathcal will likely eat the 17th slot :D
 
1:50 PM
@yo' you just define \mathcal to be a normal \mathalphabet then you can make it be anything
 
yo'
This NFSS system isn't set up properly.
damn
ah better
@DavidCarlisle Thanks a lot, I got it working. Now I'm crossing fingers that I won't need any more math alphabets :)
 
@yo' xetex gives you 256...
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle but is a PITA to set up.
 
@yo' or luatex
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle is it really better considering fonts?
 
1:56 PM
@yo' if using classic tex fonts then it works pretty much like latex (as opposed to pdflatex) doesn't it?
@yo' somethings are better than other things, some things are the same, and some things are let's say less better than they might be
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle well, it seems that š keeps missing from my font in lualatex, no matter whether I load [utf8]{inputenc} or not
@David MWE:
%!TeX program = lualatex

\documentclass{amsart}

\usepackage{lipsum}

\title{bla}

\usepackage{tgpagella}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\author{Tomáš Hejda}

\begin{document}

\maketitle

\lipsum[1-40]

\end{document}
 
@yo' You shouldn't load inputenc with xelatex/lualatex, they assume UTF-8. I'm no expert in these matters, but adding fontspec and removing fontenc makes that š appear.
 
yo'
2:12 PM
@TorbjørnT. with fontspec, it doesn't use the font it should
%!TeX program = lualatex

\documentclass{amsart}

\usepackage{lipsum}

\title{bla}

\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{antpolt}

\author{Tomáš Hejda}

\begin{document}

\maketitle

\lipsum[1-40]

\end{document}
 
@yo' Sorry, add \setmainfont{TeX Gyre Pagella}.
 
yo'
@TorbjørnT. and that's where problems start, in \setmainfont and \setmathfont. I've spent a lot of time on these two. No, thanks.
I'm pretty happy with the good old packages.
 
@yo' Isn't the problem using tgpagella with LuaTeX that T1 isn't the same as UTF-8 in some key slots. Try ß for example!
 
yo'
@JosephWright very likely? :) I mean, I'll stick to pdflatex now. I just hope I won't run out of math alphabets again
 
@yo' One reason @DavidCarlisle and I are working on various LuaTeX things is that there are some mismatches between UTF-8 support in pdfTeX and LuaTeX/XeTeX as the underlying system is so different
 
yo'
2:19 PM
@JosephWright and fontspec unfortunately has its own problems, too.
 
@yo' Not really
@yo' There are some engine-related differences but that's outside of the control of fontspec
 
yo'
@JosephWright no? And what about the spaces in font names issue? Or ability to install Euler to be used with fontspec...
 
@yo' Spaces in names => engine, Euler => not a OTF font so unsuitable
 
yo'
ah sorry, that's probably what I meant: the approach with using system/OTF fonts
 
@yo' Basically, once you decide to leave the closed-in environment of TeX fonts you really do have to change everything
 
yo'
2:21 PM
@JosephWright I'd call that a "problem"
 
@yo' Not of fontspec's making
 
yo'
@JosephWright no. Sorry it wasn't meant to blame fontspec, just to point out that this approach has its own problems too
 
@yo' The whole business about OpenType math fonts falls in this area: developing them is hard, they need to be available for Unicode engines, you really can't 'mix and match' with traditional TeX fonts, ...
 
yo'
@JosephWright yeah I know. But as seen above, sticking to pdflatex means running into font slots problems. In this sense, I'd really love to switch to lualatex which is capable of it. But then, the font encodings cause issues.
 
@yo' if you want to go unicode then don't use fontenc if you just want to use luatex for the extended math slot sand lua tricks but use classic fonts use luainputenc and fontenc. (and fix hyphenation another day)
 
yo'
2:26 PM
anyway, it seems I'm quite unable to express myself today, so I better stop here.
@DavidCarlisle the hyphenation seems like a YAY (yet another yssue). Fortunately the work itself is in English.
 
@yo' hyphenation isn't a problem in principle just the way it is set up in texlive the format building assumes pdftex will use T1 and so loads hyphenation patterns assuming that encoding and xetex/luatex assume unicode. so if you decide to use classic tex encodings with xetex the hyphenation is wrong with luatex it's wrong by default but fixable as you can load hyphenation patterns into a normal document
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle problems and problems everywhere. Well, you have thumbs up from me for trying to solve them!
and now I really gotta go. See you later maybe!
 
2:41 PM
@PauloCereda @egreg: Okay what now?!
The @-notices didn't wake me up until now... :)
@egreg This happened July 22, 2015, when the following was implemented:
21
Q: Support showing image in original size in overlay

Daniel HilgarthIt would be nice to support showing images in their original size when they where automatically resized because they are too big to fit in a question or answer (Example). I envision it just like in blogs or facebook: You can click on the image and it is shown in its original size in an overlay.

@yo' ^^^^^
Also mentioned here:
559
Q: Recent feature changes to Stack Exchange

devinbThis is an unofficial list of new features and various changes to Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network. It is maintained by the community, but a Stack Exchange developer changes the Accepted Answer to ensure that the latest changes remain on top (given default user settings). To see th...

 
@Werner I actually can't remember why we had to summon you. :)
 
@PauloCereda I think @yo' wanted some reference to @egreg's finding of the new uploader handling (changing each image into a link to itself).
Either way, I'm awake now.
 
@Werner ooh the image thingy.
 
:)
@PauloCereda Yup, the image thingy.
 
@Werner :)
 
3:05 PM
@Werner You are the Meta expert: how do you manage it?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:18 PM
If anybody wants to share an opinion on the Thesis (super) class?
 
@PauloCereda -- i would like to report that there are some very pretty araras at the darmstadt zoo ("vivarium"). also some pretty ducks. (the araras were noisy, the ducks less so. but the noisiest were the peafowl. all the owls were very quiet.)
 
4:33 PM
@barbarabeeton awwwww <3
@barbara: Are the araras colorful? :)
 
@PauloCereda -- there were four pairs -- two pairs green (two-toned), one pair bright blue with highlights in other colors, and one pair bright, bright red, with blue and yellow (and maybe other colors) bibs. the green ones were the least colorful! (also the quietest.)
 
@barbarabeeton Yay! Gimme a minute! :)
 
@barbarabeeton sneaked off when egreg was talking and went somewhere more interesting?
 
@barbarabeeton:
 
@Johannes_B lots of missing % I wonder when @egreg's talk will be online....
 
@DavidCarlisle I didn't even look that close :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Lots? I think the class author has reached the world record. ;-)
This is also quite nice
\def\printabstract{%
	\xdef\unlthesis@tmp{\expandafter\theabstractorder[\unlthesis@opt@lang]}
  \iteratecsvlist{\unlthesis@printabstract@lang}{\unlthesis@tmp}
  % disables protrusion locally in the document for the forthcoming tables of contents
  \microtypesetup{protrusion=false}
}
Where \expandafter tries to expand [
 
5:01 PM
@DavidCarlisle -- no, i was there for every word of egreg's talk. we're still in darmstadt. don't fly back to providence until next monday. (although by then i may need a vacation from my vacation.) and today was the day to visit the zoo -- no rain, and the temp was reasonable (about 20C). paulo's little saw-whet owl is certainly cute. there were no owls quite that small though. (the screech owl and burrowing owl are little and cute too.)
 
@barbarabeeton :) :)
 
@egreg: I am about to work on my GuIT talk. Should I C/C Francesco and you? :)
 
@PauloCereda I should work on one too.
 
@egreg But you know Italian, I don't. :P
 
@yo' The antpolt package doesn't use OpenType fonts.
 
5:09 PM
@egreg: \title[Automazione \TeX\ facilitata con \arara]{Un bicchiere di vino, formaggio e \arara:\\ automazione \TeX\ facilitata}
How do you like it? :)
 
@PauloCereda Nice.
 
@PauloCereda -- arara-caninde is surely the blue one; they weren't raising their wings, so there was much less yellow visible. i can't decide between the two red araras, but that red is surely striking in the sunlight. the green ones i believe are the maracana-do-buriti; they were rather "shy" and hiding in the back. and, of course, the names were in german on the signs. (i should have written down the latin names, but i didn't.)
 
@egreg It is a hidden reference to your wine + TeX adventures in the train. :)
 
@PauloCereda :)
 
@barbarabeeton ooh I wonder what their German names would sound like. :) When I visited Campo Grande last year, there were lots and lots of araras flying nonstop over the streets and buildings all day long. Noisy naughty araras! :)
 
5:16 PM
@PauloCereda -- hmmm. didn't write those down either. (sorry; i've let you down.) but now, with your talk of cheese and wine, you've made me hungry. time to go in search of dinner. (maybe back later.)
 
@barbarabeeton Have a great dinner, Barbara. :)
 
@PauloCereda Speaking about dinner: on Sunday, at the hotel, I had a rather good Wienerschnitzel with pommes frites and then a gigantic slice of Apfelstrudel (with whipped cream, of course). :)
 
@egreg ooooooh me wanteeee!
I like wienerschnitzel!
 
@PauloCereda I always have one if I spend a night in Austria.
 
@egreg Yay, where did you stay? Vienna?
 
5:31 PM
@Johannes_B as @egreg explained in his talk, you don't have to look close, they jump out and hit you
@egreg in an xdef no less
 
@PauloCereda No, it's a bit off hand: I entered Austria near Linz and went south to a town called Liezen, in Styria. The hotel is along the road to Admont, where I'm told there's a very interesting benedictine monastery. Yesterday I travelled westbound beyond Zell am See, basically following the northern side of the Tauern and crossed them through the Felbentauerntunnel.
The alternative road would be the Gloßglockner Hochalpenstraße, up to about 2400m, but with rain and cold it was not a choice, unfortunately. :(
 
@egreg Oh. :(
 
The Hohe Tauern or High Tauern (pl.) (Italian: Alti Tauri) are a mountain range on the main chain of the Central Eastern Alps, comprising the highest peaks east of the Brenner Pass. The crest forms the southern border of the Austrian state of Salzburg with Carinthia and East Tyrol, while a small part in the southwest belongs to the Italian province of South Tyrol. The range includes Austria's highest mountain, the Grossglockner. For the etymology of the name, see Tauern. == Geography == According to the Alpine Club classification of the Eastern Alps, the range is bounded by the Salzach valley to...
 
@egreg ooh :)
 
@PauloCereda There are basically three ways for crossing them: the tunnel of the highway, a railroad tunnel (you can put the bike or car on the train), the Hochalpenstraße or the Felberntauerntunnel (5km). Otherwise you have to go around them.
 
5:40 PM
@JosephWright I frequent Meta Stack Exchange and occasionally the "recent feature changes" (FAQ) post. Apart from that, using efficient search terms does help... :)
 
6:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oh, so that's where they are? EOL-% materialize, jump off the screen in a face and dematerialize again to be dust in the authors nose, making him sneeze?
 
@Johannes: My plan on this year's user meeting is to talk about snippets and condemning templates at all costs. :)
 
@PauloCereda Our spanish speaking fellows from CervanteX might tell you that this is a fight against wind mills ;-)
 
@Johannes_B Dulcinea! :)
 
6:40 PM
@StefanKottwitz @clemens @esdd @UlrikeFischer Rainer is now the moderator for mrunix -> mrunix.de/forums/…
 
6:58 PM
@Johannes_B Presumably not Rainer Schöpf?
 
@JosephWright No. But i always wondered if rais expands to that as well :-)
 
7:12 PM
@JosephWright pulls requested (luaotfload and fontspec)
 
@DavidCarlisle Saw those, and the issue you logged :-)
 
@JosephWright thought so (although I'm never quite sure when github notifies people of things)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm watching the repo so I get the issues
@DavidCarlisle I agree it looks rather odd
 
@JosephWright not sure I understand the logic of watching giving issue notification but not commit
 
@DavidCarlisle I guess it's mainly focussed around a pull-based approach, where each person does their own checkins to a copy of the core repo then asks for a pull: people are notified of that
 
7:36 PM
@JosephWright seems that way
 
@DavidCarlisle I guess also issues are website facing but commits need a Git hook ...
@DavidCarlisle Working on (u)p-TeX: seems to have come 'up' the list a bit!
 
@JosephWright just expl3 and l3build or do you think we should do something in ltfinal for 2e?
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh, strictly an expl3 thing
@DavidCarlisle No hope at all for 2e given the amount platex adds
 
@JosephWright :-) that was my feeling when I had a look round
 
@DavidCarlisle At least they do put in their banner that it's based on LaTeX2e not actually LaTeX2e
@DavidCarlisle I'm going to fix the urgent issue on CTAN then add the (u)p-TeX primitives to l3names. I'm wondering how if fits in with engine tests: for the change there we'll presumably want \runtime_if_ptex:TF, _etc., which makes life a bit complex!
@DavidCarlisle I take it with ltluatex we now need to wait for the luaoftload outcome?
 
7:43 PM
@JosephWright yes really, people can test with emu-luatexbase but that's doing quite a bit by now so it would be better if they could test without. plan I think should be (but need to check with luatexbase team) that rename emu-luatexbase.sty to luatexbase.sty and have a new thing say originalluatexbase.sty that just does what luatexbase does now (\RequirePackage all the sub packages) that way you get the new by default but can do side by side tests if you need to ...
@JosephWright but alternative (as we did for etex, not entirely successfully) would be not to rename emu-luatexbase and to leave luatexbase.sty loading the old code, then lean on package authors not to load it and just use the built in ltluatex support....
 
@DavidCarlisle How many people to lean on?
@DavidCarlisle Can that be done 'in advance'?
 
@JosephWright not sure: we could grep texlive, put people may have it in documents?
 
@DavidCarlisle Of course, always an issue
 
@JosephWright well yes that's basically what today's pull requests are I suppose, setting things up so luatexbase not loaded once ltluatex is in place
 
@DavidCarlisle I guessed that was the plan
 
7:48 PM
@JosephWright third option is not to have the old code available and just ship a renamed emu-luatexbase as luatexbase and call it an update.
 
@DavidCarlisle Up to Elié
 
@JosephWright yes (but before offering the options, need to set things up so that any of them would work:-)
@JosephWright speaking of luatexbase emulation, the one thing that's hard to emulate is the first/exclusive callback type name change, the table holding the names isn't exposed, currently I don't support it but would it hurt to leave the old first name in the table as an alias (or expose the table so emu-luatexbase can add to it) or any other lua tricks, only thing I could think of otherwise was writing a wrapper function that tested if the argument was "first" and passing in "exclusive"
 
@DavidCarlisle First question: do you agree with the change of name and behaviour?
 
@JosephWright yes
 
@DavidCarlisle :-)
 
7:58 PM
@JosephWright sorry, were you looking for an argument (I could do a 10 minute one...)
 
@DavidCarlisle Where is this needed outside of the allocator itself?
@DavidCarlisle No
@DavidCarlisle I'm trying to read the (u)p-TeX docs, quite hard as I have no Japanese
 
@JosephWright user defined create_callback is only place I think
 
@Johannes_B Thank you for the information! I sent him congratulations and thanks too.
 
@JosephWright so perhaps nowhere in practice...
 
@JosephWright David can read. :)
 
8:03 PM
@PauloCereda I do hope so
@PauloCereda I could only find a list of new primitives by reading the .ch files
 
@PauloCereda 私の日本人はあなたの愚かなアヒル言語より優れています
 
@DavidCarlisle /cries
 
@DavidCarlisle Looks about right
 
You are man. In Japanese. :(
 
@JosephWright when I posted those english links in the team mail I nearly commented that the ch file comments were in english:-)
 
8:05 PM
@JosephWright How about asking Norbert's help? :)
 
@DavidCarlisle :-)
@PauloCereda At the moment the plan is 'detect up-TeX so we don't actually break anything', which doesn't need any understanding :-)
 
@JosephWright ooh
 
@JosephWright it's so tempting to try to apply the uplatex ch file to xetex instead of tex....
 
@ChristianHupfer LOL
 
8:10 PM
From opensuse on google+ ;-)
 
@JosephWright just after we went all the way to Germany to grovel to Petra...
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes: it happens
@DavidCarlisle I made some of the changes they asked for re. README files but forgot the last part!
 
@JosephWright :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll fix and upload as README this time but probably will alter l3build to drop that idea as it's no longer required (just leave as README.md in the future)
 
yo'
8:20 PM
@Werner Thanks, you got it right, this was the origin of all that
 
@PauloCereda -- i disagree. it depends on what you think a template is. some things that some people think are templates are bad, very bad. and some things that i think are templates (assuming my understanding of what a template is, is the "right" one) can be constructed badly. but i believe that there are good templates. (i offer the templates for ams document classes as reasonable ones. even so, i'm sure they could be better, and invite suggestions.)
 
@barbarabeeton You are right, there are good templates. :) Fewer than we would expect, sadly. :)
 
Can somebody confirm this? The document
\documentclass{memoir}
\usepackage{pstricks}
\begin{document}
test
\end{document}
Triggers the error
! LaTeX Error: \RequirePackage or \LoadClass in Options Section.

See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type  H <return>  for immediate help.
 ...

l.63 \ifpst@loadPDF
And h in the ouput console reports
The package `pstricks' is defective.
It attempts to load `ifpdf,xkeyval,ifplatform' in the options section, i.e.,
between \DeclareOption and \ProcessOptions.
?
I'm using TeX Live2015 updated 2hours ago.
 
@GonzaloMedina It runs for me without error with TL 2015
pdflatex 2015.6.18 and xelatex 2015.6.18 run it fine
 
@PauloCereda -- then the challenge is to make everybody understand what a template is, and what constitutes a good one.
 
8:30 PM
@barbarabeeton indeed. :) I will try to cover that.
 
@StefanKottwitz Weird. Have you recently updates your TeX Live?
 
@GonzaloMedina Some weeks ago
 
@GonzaloMedina I see it with a bang up-to-date system: must be a recent change
 
@StefanKottwitz I updated just an hour ago and noticed the error while trying the code in a question.
 
@GonzaloMedina I can confirm.
 
8:33 PM
@JosephWright @egreg that is good to hear. Does @Herbert read the chat?
 
yo'
@GonzaloMedina I wouldn't rely on that.
 
@GonzaloMedina Don't know
@Herbert See above from @GonzaloMedina
Mod ping: will get to him
 
@GonzaloMedina There has been another update to pstricks, that I don't yet see with tlmgr. See tug.org/svn/texlive/trunk/Master/texmf-dist/doc/generic/…
 
@egreg The line "upload the correct pstricks.sty" suggests that perhaps the problem was already noticed and corrected.
 
@GonzaloMedina I think so.
 
yo'
8:37 PM
well, ladies and gentlemen, I have to go to bed. See you another ... day!
 
@yo' See ya!
 
8:51 PM
@yo' bye
 
@PauloCereda: Have you ever been in a steelworks? It's amazing there
 
@ChristianHupfer No. :(
 
@PauloCereda: We've done an excursion to a nearby steelworks today, sited at the Rhine river... Awfully noise inside there, and extremely hot. All of us wore a protective suit, helmet and glasses. We entered the main hall just at the right moment, when the molten steel was released from the Bessemer Converter... red hot bars of steel where transported automatically by cranes...
@PauloCereda: They can convert 150 tons of scrap metal (well, steel and iron) into new steel rods (140 tons total then) in 4 hours only...
 
@ChristianHupfer ooh
 
@PauloCereda The steel has to cool down for transport of course, but it's basically finished after four hours
 
9:04 PM
@ChristianHupfer A Bessemer converter? Really? Where is that?
 
@ChristianHupfer how nice. :)
 
@ChristianHupfer -- wow! bessemer converters ... thats *old technology. i thought it had been phased out, since nearly all the steel plants in the u.s. (which used that technology heavily) have been closed down for years, and the work shifted "offshore" to places where the work is done "more efficiently", so i presumed that bessemer was outmoded.
 
@Johannes_B: Perhaps it's not a Bessemer... They used another term "Kübel" ;-) @barbarabeeton
 
@ChristianHupfer Not Pfanne for the transport of molten metal?
@barbarabeeton It is :-)
 
@Johannes_B Nope, the scrap metal is stored in this "Kübel" and then emptied in a huge oven, with walls made of ceramic materials... The melt is reached with 3 huge graphite electrodes, after 8 melt cycles (taking about half an hour, an electrode has to be changed)
 
9:11 PM
@ChristianHupfer An electric arc furnace (Elektrolichtbogenofen)
 
@Johannes_B: Yes, don't know the English term for this
 
@ChristianHupfer Noise storm in there ;-)
 
@Johannes_B Hell of noise, yes... :-D
 
9:36 PM
@ChristianHupfer -- okay. not bessemer; there wasn't that much electricity available when the bessemer process was used. what you're describing is closer to the methods used for refining aluminum. (nonetheless, sounds like a fascinating field trip.)
 
9:54 PM
An electric arc furnace (EAF) is a furnace that heats charged material by means of an electric arc. Industrial arc furnaces range in size from small units of approximately one ton capacity (used in foundries for producing cast iron products) up to about 400 ton units used for secondary steelmaking. Arc furnaces used in research laboratories and by dentists may have a capacity of only a few dozen grams. Industrial electric arc furnace temperatures can be up to 1,800 °C (3,272 °F), while laboratory units can exceed 3,000 °C (5,432 °F). Arc furnaces differ from induction furnaces in that the charge...
 
10:40 PM
Hi @ArthurReutenauer!
 
Hi @Paulo
 
@ArthurReutenauer How are you, buddy? :)
 
Busy, sorry @Paulo
 
@ArthurReutenauer No worries. :)
 
11:24 PM
@DavidCarlisle With LuaTeX this is addressed by the language support package you use. Polyglossia does that, as does Babel for the languages that have LuaTeX support. It’s not really different from the engines where patterns are dumped in the format, since the language has to be specified somehow anyway.
 
@ArthurReutenauer must admit haven't looked at exactly polyglossia does there but babel in principle supports hyphenation for each encoding so T1 german and Unicode german for example, but as far as I can see it's not actually set up in TL and xetex for example only loads the utf8/unicode patterns doesn't it?
 

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