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12:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle I vividly remember the world of grammar opening up to me in... German class. And I thought, "why was this never taught in English class?"
 
 
2 hours later…
2:00 AM
@yo' not really. they don't make much sense to me.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:49 AM
Is TeX a modern wonder of civilization?
 
 
4 hours later…
7:41 AM
@percusse: sir did you see my Python script? :) I need to get some hints with you. :)
 
yo'
8:14 AM
@percusse well, I don't use them for monitoring, but in the public transport, they're fine. The problem is that I need to get new earphones and I look for some good price:quality ratio. Thanks anyways :)
@egreg ^ see? this time 'twasn't me :)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:20 AM
Quack
 
9:41 AM
Quack!
@Johannes_B Das Ente ist here!
I won't write Die Ente because I want my duck alive. :P
 
@PauloCereda :-)
 
arara has 74 stars on GitHub! :)
 
@PauloCereda Hm, i count 75 ;-)
 
@Johannes_B I'm a slow duck bee reader. :)
 
10:16 AM
@PauloCereda I did the first, you do the second.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:38 AM
Help, one just used Comic Sans in a keynote!
 
@PauloCereda Throw him some vegetables.
 
@egreg Tomatoes? :)
 
@PauloCereda Rotten tomatoes. ;-)
 
@egreg Supervisor alert, what do I do in that specific case? :)
 
12:31 PM
@yo' Oh wait. My english failed. In-ear you mean the regular small ones right? For some reason I thought the in ear ones connected with an arc.
For in-ear stuff I'm pretty happy with mid-range sennheisers
@PauloCereda Which Python script?
 
12:42 PM
@percusse The conference question thingy.
 
1:05 PM
@PauloCereda offer to prepare the slides next time. (You might want to warn him about the likelihood of ducks)
 
@egreg: a jewel just happened right now: "A blank page for a mathematician is his Facebook."
@DavidCarlisle oooh. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:28 PM
Hi does anyone know how to delete old chats in ShareLaTeX?
 
yo'
3:45 PM
@AlanMunn I have no idea, but: ShareLaTeX is on-topic on TeX - LaTeX StackExchange :)
 
@yo' As long as I don't ask how it makes you feel to delete old chats...
 
yo'
@AlanMunn that's another story, yes
 
yo'
4:02 PM
@Paulo how much experience have you got with Python? I'm looking for a simple graphics app creation (I basically need just 2D drawing, keyboard capture and mouse capture)
 
 
1 hour later…
5:22 PM
New mathjax:
 
@DavidCarlisle Did they fix the absurd \color{red}{a}?
 
@egreg I doubt it, I asked Davide to some years back but he was afraid to change existing sites, there is a standard configuration option that fixes it though
 
@DavidCarlisle At least they should allow \textcolor{red}{a}
 
@egreg (\require{color}) then both work I think, or you can add the equivalent to load the color extension in the js part
@egreg :
The \color command in the core TeX input jax is not standard in that it takes the mathematics to be colored as one of its parameters, whereas the LaTeX \color command is a switch that changes the color of everything that follows it.

The color extension changes the \color command to be compatible with the LaTeX implementation, and also defines \colorbox, \fcolorbox, and \definecolor, as in the LaTeX color package. It defines the standard set of colors (Apricot, Aquamarine, Bittersweet, and so on), and provides the RGB and grey-scale color spaces in addition to named colors.
 
yo'
6:00 PM
@egreg is this OT?
0
Q: for Hom and H*(X,Z) -- which fonts?

user125763This is a question about style, I am debating whether the math operator \Hom should be just \DeclareMathOperator{\Hom}{Hom} or if it should be some variant like \DeclareMathOperator{\Hom}{\mathnormal{Hom}} The reason I'm even considering this is because I'm using the eulervm package. Also,...

 
@yo' Mostly. The only TeX relevant part is defining macros. But some discussion about Euler and function names might be “TeX and typography”
 
yo'
@egreg well, I'll leave it be :)
 
6:37 PM
who'd use \z as a generic scratch macro.....
1
Q: what does \z means?

user126154In some codes I encountered some \z command, for example: \pgfmathrandomitem\z{mylist}\z\prunelist{mylist} from this question: Generating random numbers without repetitions. What exactly does it mean?

 
6:53 PM
Joseph Wright has added an event to this room's schedule.
 
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I've created LuaLaTeX example of using 8-bit fonts, unicode input, T1 fontenc and working hyphenation:
^^^ and it doesn't use luainputenc
 
@DavidCarlisle What a foolish thing!
 
 
2 hours later…
8:41 PM
I suspect the machine wanted to punish you for having used Comic Sans. ;-) — egreg 24 secs ago
3
 
9:06 PM
What's the difference between \box_use:N and \vbox_unpack:N or \hbox_unpack:N?
 
@Manuel The first simply uses the box, the other two remove a level of boxing, delivering the vertical or horizontal list inside.
They are \box, \unvbox and \unhbox.
 
@egreg That's still above my limit. If we have something stored in a box, when we call those primitives (\box, \unvbox and \unhbox) aren't we extracting what's inside the box and “putting” it in the document? I need a little bit more of explanation :)
 
@Manuel Note that \box_use:N is independent of the register containing a vertical or horizontal box, but using \vbox_unpack:N if the register contains a horizontal box is illegal (and similary for \hbox_unpack:N).
 
@egreg “remove a level of boxing”… Hmmm… What does that mean?
 
@Manuel Try \setbox0=\hbox{a\hfil b}\hbox to 4cm{\box0} and \setbox0=\hbox{a\hfil b}\hbox to 4cm{\unhbox0} to see the difference.
 
9:16 PM
@egreg Okey, I see they are different, yet I wouldn't know how to define the difference :) What's happening? Why does \hfil act inside those to 4cm only with \unhbox?
@egreg The truth is, I wouln't know what of the two behaviours I would expect by default. I mean, I thought that when \setbox “sets the box”, the content was already typeset. So I guess \box0 is what I would expect. That \unhbox0 is like if we defined \def\tmp{a\hfil b} and then \hbox to 4cm {\tmp}.
 
@Manuel Rather than “the content is already typeset”, think to “the horizontal/vertical list is built”.
With \box the list is typeset, with \unvbox or \unhbox the list is appended to the current list.
By the way, \box never changes the mode. To the contrary, \unvbox forces vertical mode (issuing \par if necessary), while \unhbox forces horizontal mode (issuing \indent, if necessary).
 
@egreg Okey, so what is the difference between “content is typeset” and “the horizontal/vertical list is built” (and what's the difference between that last one and “raw code as in a macro \tmp”?).
Is \unhbox like taking the raw code from the \setbox and inputting just there?
 
@Manuel At the time \unhbox is executed, there are no more macros or commands around: the contents of the box has been turned into the internal boxes and glue (and whatnot) representation. A list of nodes, to be precise. These nodes may be characters, glue, penalties and so on.
 
@egreg Still not clear (sorry if it's too obvious). After seeing this example
\setbox0=\hbox to 4cm{a\hfil b}\hbox to 4cm{\box0}\par
\setbox0=\hbox{a\hfil b}\hbox to 4cm{\unhbox0}
I definitely think I know what \box0 does; exactly what I would expect. On the other side, \unhbox0 seems to “retypeset” the code according to the new rules.
 
@Manuel You're using the wrong example.
 
9:31 PM
Okey, I think I'm starting to understand what you mean with “the list is built”.
@egreg Why? I only meant the first line, so the box is the box independently of the “frame” the box is put.
First you draw a painting, of certain size, then with \box you put it in a frame independently if it fits or not (what you “draw” is what you draw, it can't change).
 
@Manuel In the second case, the box register 0 contains the list: “character a, glue 0pt plus 1fil, character b”. The character nodes already specify the font. When you \unhbox it in \hbox to 4cm{\unhbox0} the glue is able to stretch. This doesn't happen if you say \hbox to 4cm{\box0}, because the list is not freed.
 
Now, with \unhbox it seems to me like it's magic. The painting I draw of a certain size now fits perfectly in any frame I put around it.
 
To say it differently, with \hbox to 4cm{\unhbox0} you're pouring some wine from bottle 0 in another container; with \hbox to 4cm{\box0} you're putting the bottle in the other container.
 
Bettwer with wine that with a “painting” and a “frame”. Okey, that's what you meant with remove a level of unboxing. Nice one.
Next question, just as a postscript: Why would one want to pour some wine from bottle 0 if he has just filled bottle 0, why not fill from the beginning that another container? What's the use-case?
 
3
A: Restrict text to box without linebreak

egregHere's a solution that uses as much text as will fit in the stated length; the *-form frames only the text that fits, the normal form uses the stated length anyway. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{xparse} \NewDocumentCommand{\restrict}{smm}{% #2 is a length, #3 is the text \setbox0=\vbox{...

 
10:10 PM
@egreg Thanks. Trying to understand :)
 
10:23 PM
@michal.h21 One approach, certainly. What we don't have at the moment is a good fix for XeTeX. We also need to address the callback situation for LuaTeX at the kernel level: one for the medium term (TL2016-ish)
 
10:43 PM
@michal.h21 thanks for that, will study later!
 
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle it is just a proof of concept, font encoding is hardwired, for example.
 
@michal.h21 Yes, understood
 
@JosephWright btw font table with unicode characters was generated with tfmtochars:
 
@Manuel a good example of unboxing from the latex format:
\footnoterule
     \unvbox \footins
@Manuel footnotes are stored in a box but if the box was placed at the bottom of the page it would be rigid and any inter para space could not stretch to help an underful page, but by unboxing it it can take part in stretching
@JosephWright speaking of the team, it's all gone quiet:-)
 
10:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle Does the plan sound reasonable to you? I'm thinking what we have is enough change for TL2015, then we need to get some kind of 'group' together for the callbacks and the like
 
@JosephWright yes I think it would certainly be a mistake to try to do more before tl2015, probably need to start something after that though
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes
 

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