TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2014-02-16

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12:03 AM

Oh TCS is Elsevier! I thought it's Springer

I think the way to go is that the academic institutions have to take the responsibility. I know couple journals which are university-driven, and some large publisher (e.g. Cambridge UP) only takes care of printing and proper indexing

1 hour later…

1:29 AM

@PauloCereda I actually saw an article not too long ago that recorded someone doing just that. I'll see if I can find it…

4 hours later…

5:30 AM

@PauloCereda :( youtube.com/watch?v=-F5qgEBHAVM

(Never did find that article, by the way…)

1 hour later…

6:56 AM

@PauloCereda "page not found" :-(

user image

7:44 AM

FrameMaker 12 is out, and has support for Mathematics. So I decided to download a trial version and compare it with Latex to see. Well, it does not look good. The PDF output is not bad, but the HTML output is not good. The limits on an integral sign are corrupted in this example. So, I do not think Latex has to worry about this.

user image

This version supports XML they say, but I do not know how to use that part. I was only testing the math support to compare it with Latex.

They use GIF images for equations.

<DIV>
<IMAGE xml:link="simple" href="2-1.gif" show="embed" actuate="auto"/>
</DIV>
That is why the math looks not sharp and fussy

Back to Latex ......

2 hours later…

9:35 AM

@MarcoDaniel I decided not to traumatize people. :) It's my code playground for arara. :)

9:51 AM

@egreg: ooh you are close to 30k votes!

@PauloCereda Still one month.

@egreg You passed percusse, it's already an amazing milestone. :)

Hey I miss @David, where is he these days?

10:17 AM

@PauloCereda Keeping water from entering his house? :(

@egreg Oh my, the floods. :(

I once saw a flood when in São Paulo, it was one of the scariest things I ever saw. :(

10:31 AM

@DavidCarlisle: Hi David! How are things?

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

watchiung iron man 2!!

10:51 AM

@LiarLiarPantsonFire Iron Man Double Factorial of 2? :)

@PauloCereda Unimportant: 2!!=2!=2 ;-)

@egreg Oh. :)

@PauloCereda On the other hand, 4!!≠4! and 3!!≠3!

11:07 AM

@egreg It could be Iron Man 3, than the joke would be funny. :)

Oh boy, I hate those profile pictures you have to have in some articles which require biography. :(

IEEE, I'm looking at you.

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

@PauloCereda no the movie, iron man 2

but now its ended! :D

@LiarLiarPantsonFire Ah Tony ~~Stork~~ Stark. :)

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

@PauloCereda yeah! it was boring, actually i saw it late

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

11:50 AM

Bye! Going to Study now!

2 hours later…

1:26 PM

Plan for today: work on yesterday's todo list chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/13789897#13789897

@egreg We have that, too: Ein Loch ist im Eimer (or Wenn der Pott aber nu en Loch hat) ingeb.org/Lieder/wennderp.html :)

@cgnieder das bucket!

:)

@PauloCereda :)

@cgnieder Ein Wasserbucket!

ooh I'm getting better!

@egreg: mom is making tortellini for today! :)

@PauloCereda Good! I had spaghetti alla carbonara

@egreg Yummy! :)

@egreg: is Naples far from you? When I visit you, I want to try some of their pizzas. :)

1:40 PM

@PauloCereda This could be mistaken for “Wasserbukett” ;) (not that the latter makes much sense, though)

@cgnieder ooh! :P

@PauloCereda And “crostata” with apples and home made orange marmalade

@egreg yummy! Sometimes mom makes this crostata with guava. :)

@PauloCereda Just 700 km

@egreg Oh my!

1:44 PM

@PauloCereda Five hours by train

@egreg A 5-hour TeX course. :)

TeX on Rails!

@egreg: how long does the Macbook battery work?

@PauloCereda Our fast trains have power sockets

@egreg Really?!

That's new for me.

Well, Brazilian stuff cannot be compared to other countries. :)

@PauloCereda From my programming book

user image

@egreg LOL pure gold!

1:54 PM

@PauloCereda Now TV for the match. Bye.

@egreg See ya. :) We will be back in the half time for highlights. :)

2:15 PM

I need some pointers here. Situation: I have a terrible hangover and my girlfriend asked me to typeset a short text for her students, mainly law text.

@egreg: Goal!

@Christoph ASS, orange juice and coffee?

no juice, already tried the rest. I even begin feeling better but that might be measurement noise

@Christoph Coffee. Lots of it. Without sugar.

I never dilute my coffee with sugar!

2:22 PM

user image

WTF!?

@cgnieder Germans? :)

yes

@Christoph I have never typed any law texts but isn't there a dedicated KOMA-SCript class?

I'll check...

2:25 PM

@PauloCereda that's what social media and internet are for: to collect funny/strange/stupid/... pictures ;)

add "disturbing" to your list to make the picture a valid entry

@cgnieder And ducks! :)

@PauloCereda Of course ducks! Probably the most important point :)

@cgnieder :)

my koma documentation only shows the main classes scrbook, scrreport, scrartcl, scrlttr2 and scrpage2. Nothing really law-related

I might just go with scrartcl cram in a page header and use the multicol package for the main text

2:30 PM

@egreg: Goal!

Hello friends!

@Christoph found it - the package is called scrjura and has it's own manual: mirrors.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/koma-script/doc/…

I wanted to ask, if there is a best practice for posting answers with extremely long cope snippets. I just posted this answer and used GitHub Gist to store the file.

@cgnieder thanks, looking into it

is there a way to complete @userna... with a keyboard shortcut?

@Christoph For the names that pop up when you start typing the, the tab-key.

2:45 PM

@egreg: nice first half! :)

thanks @TorbjørnT.

@HenriMenke oh hello!

@HenriMenke I think it's fine. :)

@PauloCereda Okay, thank you! Then I'll stick with that.

@PauloCereda Too lazy in the end.

@egreg Ah yes. By the way, I didn't know Giovinco was back.

2:52 PM

@PauloCereda BTW: arara is awesome. If we ever meet I owe you a beer!

@HenriMenke aww thank you for the kind words. :)

Wait for the new version, we are working on something really awesome. :)

It's like learning from our own mistakes, meaning that we are ready for way bigger mistakes. :)

3

@PauloCereda Even more awesome?! You're making your way to a whole crate of beer ;)

@HenriMenke We are beer-powered. :) Don't forget that our team has a German majority. :)

Marco, Clemens and Heiko. :)

@PauloCereda Although I have no idea what I'm actually doing for the team? :) Nothing so far I think

@cgnieder Expect some internal team communication. :) They are very secret. Even I don't know what I write about. :)

3:01 PM

@PauloCereda ooh! TeX conspiracies... ;)

@cgnieder shhh. :)

All our secret reunions should happen in a Bierhaus.

@egreg: Goal!

@egreg: Goal!

I'm sure there must be a question on this, but I can't seem to find it... My font (Fontin) doesn't have the character ğ — is there some way I can create it?

3:21 PM

@PauloCereda Hmm, beer! :)

@cgnieder That's how we work: we discuss things before beers, then the very same things after beers; the ones that keep coherent after this step, we move on. :)

@PauloCereda sounds like a reasonable plan :)

@cgnieder Of course, we need a designated driver.

@PauloCereda I don't have a car :p

@cgnieder Let's go with Marco!

woohoo

3:31 PM

@PauloCereda I'm sure he won't mind ;)

@egreg: is this in Brill? i.stack.imgur.com/esIbt.png

If so when I was trying to make something similar I could only find an outlined index, not a black one

never mind

4:00 PM

@John Utopia

@rm-rf \usepackage{newunicodechar}\newunicodechar{ğ}{\u{g}} But it's not guaranteed.

@egreg: good game. :)

@egreg Nope, no luck :(

@PauloCereda A bit of laziness, but next Thursday there's the Europe League match.

@egreg Ah yes, the big game. :)

@rm-rf Let me check

@rm-rf Unfortunately Fontin doesn't have a combining breve; here's how you can do it:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec,newunicodechar}
\UndeclareUTFcomposite[\UTFencname]{x011F}{\u}{g}
\newunicodechar{ğ}{\accent"02D8 g}

\setmainfont{Fontin}

\begin{document}
ğ
\end{document}

user image

4:13 PM

@egreg Excellent! Thank you :)

2 hours later…

5:44 PM

@egreg: can I ask a newbie math question? :(

1 hour later…

6:45 PM

@PauloCereda hit us :)

@tohecz Don't laugh, please. :)

@PauloCereda I've been asked many ridiculous things, don't worry man

@tohecz :)

Suppose I have a set A = { a, b, c }. I'd like to have a new set B with all the possible subsets of A, with size 2, B = { { a, b } , { b, c } , { a, c } }, but I don't know a good "generic" notation for that. :(

At least, I can't think of one.

We use {A \choose 2}

It's quite standard, still you should properly define it of course

@tohecz Oh.

7:18 PM

@tohecz I'll take a look here. :) Thanks, Tom. :)

@PauloCereda Was the SE off for you, too?

@tohecz Yes, it was. :(

@PauloCereda well, needed to say, glad to hear that :-/

sound.SE still off it seems

some problem on SE site probably

@Paulo btw, do you know that feeling that your favourite musical e-shop has all sorts of audio cables, but not the one you need?

@tohecz Uh-oh. :(

@PauloCereda I actually can't find that one anywhere

7:35 PM

@tohecz Ouch, that sucks. :(

@PauloCereda well, I can use a reduction, but then I lose quality, or I can ask for a one-piece made cable, but then I lose quality too (and it's expensive)

Hi @David!

@tohecz: this is bad, isn't it?

A = \{ a, b, c \}, B = \{ \{ a, b \} \mid a, b \in A, a \neq b \}

this is bad. What about:
\[ A = \{a,b,c\}, B = \{S\subseteq A \mid \# S=2 \} \]

or: $B = \binom{A}{2}$, i.e., $B$ is the set of all subsets of $A$ of size $2$.

The notation is standard (especially in graph theory, and combinatorics), so don't re-invent the wheel :)

7:55 PM

@tohecz Oh my, I'm ashamed. :(

@tohecz Thank you very much, Tom. :)

@PauloCereda haha, don't be

I tell you, it is soooooo difficult to write things clearly, and I'm far from being able to do so

@tohecz I know some maths, but sadly the trend in Brazil is to "loose" the formal stuff in favour of practical stuff. When submitting things abroad, we need to go formal, and that's where I see I'm very rusty. :)

@PauloCereda It's difficult to be precise yet readable

@tohecz Yes. :)

btw, found the cable, but from a brand I don't know :-/

8:05 PM

@tohecz Monster cable? :)

Back on line, at least the chat. The main site is still down

But stackoverflow.com is up

@PauloCereda unfortunately not :( I found two: PROEL and CORDIAL

And another problem is that the vendors are far from me so + €4 just for PnP

@PauloCereda Also \mathcal{P}_{2}(A), which can be also \mathcal{P}_{\le2}(A) for the subsets of at most two elements; or \mathcal{P}_{<\omega}(A) for the finite subsets.

@egreg Thank you!

@tohecz: ^^ the master in action. :)

12

Q: What just happened to StackOverflow?

StackOverflow was down for a long time here, probably about an hour. Anybody know what the cause was?

discussion stackoverflow downtime

8:11 PM

@egreg I've never seen it, but that's probably because I'm not doing algebra ;)

7

A: What just happened to StackOverflow?

The StackStatus twitter account says this: Our network provider is experiencing a bit of increased traffic. We and they are investigating. Update: We have partially mitigated a DDoS attack against our network. We are continuing to watch traffic.

@tohecz \binom{A}{2} is good as well.

@egreg as I say, it's quite standard, and I like the "comutativity" of $\#\binom{A}{2} = \binom{\#A}{2}$ :)

For a finite set $A$ of size $n$ we have $2^A=\bigcup_{0\le k\le n}\binom{A}{k}$

btw, going through the list of chat rooms, and some are really funny: The Appendix (do you still have your appendix?), The Water Cooler (no, thanks, it's too cold outside anyways), The Observatory, and most importantly, remember that You Are Here :)

@egreg Could I consult a LaTeXnical detail with you please?

8:30 PM

@tohecz Of course

Imagine I have a command like \NomenclatureItem{<symbol>}{<description>}. Now, symbol is always a math guy, so it would be reasonable to define it like \NomenclatureItem -> $ #1 $ --- #2 (formatting doesn't matter now).

But it has a drawback, which is when someone writes \NomenclatureItem{$S$}{My set} instead of \NomenclatureItem{S}{My set}. Any ideas? What variant would you prefer?

@tohecz The latter, with the explicit math.

@egreg Sorry, so you'd prefer writing \NomItem{$S$}{My set} ?

@egreg: how do you like the idea of a natural language-based arara directive?

@tohecz Yes, it's a math symbol, so let be it.

@PauloCereda “Please, LaTeX it for me”?

8:34 PM

I was using \beamertemplatenavigationsymbolsempty to get rid of Beamer's navigation bar... but it doesn't seem to work anymore. Perhaps changed with a recent package update. Does anyone know any alternatives?

@egreg ok. Thanks

@egreg Close. :)

% arara: frontespizio with engine(xelatex)

@PauloCereda Nice!

@PauloCereda "Prosím, pusť LaTeX na můj soubor!" ?

@tohecz OMG

@egreg Courtesy of Brent. :)

8:36 PM

@tohecz Of course, we want users to be polite.

@PauloCereda literally, "Please, drop LaTeX onto my file" :)

% arara: pdflatex with shell(yes) and synctex(yes)

@tohecz UTF8 required. :)

@PauloCereda cp1250cs suffices ;) :p

@tohecz :)

@jtbandes I was just going to mention that there's a question about it on the site, to realize that the site is still off

8:39 PM

@egreg, @tohecz: I could add some politeness level that might make users to eventually include a "please" keyword somewhere. :)

@PauloCereda Like this?

arara> This is a toughie, manna! You oughtta say "please" or there ain't no work

@tohecz Hm ok. Do you know if anyone answered yet? :)

@jtbandes there's a solution that doesn't use the command, but I don't know it

oh sorry, I don't mean the fact that the command doesn't work, I mean that there's a question about hiding the navigation bar

ah, I see

I just looked at the command definition in beamerbasecompatibility.sty, it does \setbeamertemplate{navigation symbols}{}

Naturally, this doesn't work anymore either

@jtbandes If you try \setbeamertemplate{navigation symbols}{ABC} ?

8:45 PM

Wait — I just realized I'm being stupid.

\beamertemplatenavigationsymbolsempty still works — but there's a new bar which didn't exist before

@jtbandes Well, you're probably not ;)

Hello @ all. StackExchange is back, but TeX.SX is still dead here. How is it for you? Last reachable server in traceroute here “nyk-b6-link.telia.net [80.91.253.93]”.

@Speravir Looks like *.stackexchange.com is still broken, but stackoverflow.com works

@Speravir DDoS attack

@Speravir welcome to the club pal

8:46 PM

Oops. Thanks guys.

@PauloCereda While searching I found this one, did you already know? Olá, Mundo! Announcing Stack Overflow in Portuguese.

@Speravir I knew about it, and, personally, I found it very insulting. :) Not sure if I should expand a lot about this subject... :)

@PauloCereda OK. Should I delete my posting? ;-)

@Speravir Nah, don't worry. :) I meant the SO in Portuguese, not your message. :)

@PauloCereda Another topic: Your nightingale logo is again awesome IMHO!

The reason for my rage is that a lot of Brazilians that work with software development or even in academia, IMHO, is very lazy and fail to make an effort on trying to learn new things when these things are not in Portuguese. Making a SO in Portuguese doesn't cover a demographic need of the language expansion, but makes people more lazy to move their buttocks out of their comfy chairs and try to interact with the rest of the world. :)

@Speravir Oh thanks! I plan to revamp the arara logo as well, in the same lines. :)

@topskip: Yay, Patrick is back from the <xml>conference</xml>! <3

8:54 PM

@PauloCereda Nice conference. A former TeX guru is always there (Norm Walsh)

And someone presented a nicely working MS-Word to LaTeX converter

so it's not only about < and >

@topskip boo!

<3

:)

Is the main site down?

44 mins ago, by egreg

7

A: What just happened to StackOverflow?

The StackStatus twitter account says this: Our network provider is experiencing a bit of increased traffic. We and they are investigating. Update: We have partially mitigated a DDoS attack against our network. We are continuing to watch traffic.

@GonzaloMedina welcome to the ~~Club~~ Chat for Lonely Guys :D

4

@tohecz LOL

@topskip: any papers from you?

8:57 PM

@egreg I see. It's nice to see that we deserve someone taking the time to lauch a DDoS attack on us!

@PauloCereda I have to admit it beats TeX conferences...

@PauloCereda Not this time, next year I will submit something

@topskip Wait for the TeX conference I'll host someday. :)

There'll be lots of gaming stuff in the lounge, ducks, puppies and some comfy chairs. :)

3

@PauloCereda I wanted to say that it beats the TeX conferences I have been to in the past

@topskip Oh. :)

@GonzaloMedina Well, it was to the whole SE network, apparently.

8:59 PM

@PauloCereda I can't wait

@Johannes_B Think of @egreg and @DavidCarlisle playing Mario Kart in the lounge. :)

@egreg stackexchange.com is up, so perhaps it was only to some of the sites?

Of course, @Gonzalo can't play because he's a pro at gaming. :P

@GonzaloMedina It was down until a few minutes ago.

@PauloCereda Sounds awesome.

9:01 PM

@PauloCereda We could play "macro expansion"

5

@egreg OMG TeX games!

We could play Scrabble with macros instead of words.

@PauloCereda Are macros with @ allowed?

I don't know how to spell that game. :(

@PauloCereda Actually Pont a Mousson in 2005 was great, Knuth and Zapf were there

@egreg Yes! :)

@topskip oh my!

9:03 PM

@PauloCereda Do you think that some people won't behave? So they'll deserve to be punished with the comfy chair?

@egreg It's very possible. :) I need to find the comfiest chair available. :)

Is comfiest a valid word?

@PauloCereda Why not? You just wrote it :-)

@GonzaloMedina ooh! :)

my brother is teaching English, and he says: A word is valid if people understand it. Especially if you're not a professional speaker

@PauloCereda In English anything is allowed, except nouning verbs.

9:06 PM

@egreg ooh! :)

> I hate when people get random macros from random question and human-centipede them together in one random document.

Warning: don't even google that, it's a bad movie. :)

@PauloCereda On Math.SE one often finds "proof that …”, instead of "prove that …"

@egreg ooh! :)

@egreg: I was curious about the tombstone name in typography for the \qed symbol and found that halmos is another name for it. :)

@PauloCereda We should ask barbara

What I know is that Halmos was the first to use it for denoting "end of proof"

@egreg oh cool!

Tombstone (typography)

The tombstone, Halmos, or end of proof mark "" is used in mathematics to denote the end of a proof, in place of the traditional abbreviation "QED" for the Latin phrase "quod erat demonstrandum" (Q.E.D.). In magazines, it is one of the various symbols used to indicate the end of an article. In Unicode, it is represented as character . Its graphic form varies. It may be a hollow or filled rectangle or square. In AMS-LaTeX, the symbol is automatically appended at the end of a proof environment \begin{proof} ... \end{proof}. It can also be obtained from the commands \qedsymbol or \qed (the ...

@egreg I found it in here. :)

Seems twitter.com/StackStatus was ddosed, too: no mention about subdomains. (add missing smilies here.)

9:13 PM

@PauloCereda Probably "tombstone" because the one used by Halmos was rectangular, higher than wide, and black.

@egreg :)

@PauloCereda Where is this quote from?

@PauloCereda A bit fatter than the last one in the picture.

@Johannes_B I wrote it now. :P

We were talking about making up new words in English. :P

@PauloCereda Nice one. ;-)

9:15 PM

@Johannes_B Thanks. :P

@PauloCereda can you please remind me how to ask something to PSmith?

@GonzaloMedina !!/answer <question> if we need to rely on Wolfram|Alpha, or !!/eightball <question> for yes/no questions. :)

But I need to enable him, hold on. :)

!!/choose @Paulo, @Psmith

@PauloCereda Don't bother! I am not gonna ask anything now...

@tohecz <3

@GonzaloMedina <3

9:21 PM

Gotta go guys, see you soon (hopefully TeX.SX is back up then)

Let’s see, whether there are answers:

2

Q: Subdomains of StackExchange.com still down

After being DDOSed (cf. What just happened to StackOverflow?) StackOverflow works again and Meta.SO obviously, as well. I also noticed, that superuser.com works. But all subdomains of stackexchange.com are still down (I actually did test only some of them). Are there known reasons? Can someone t...

@Speravir The answer is known: the DNS records for SE have to change all over the internet. The site is on, just with a different IP :-/

@tohecz Yes, I got a comment.

9:57 PM

Back to life!

@egreg Not here. But see answers to my linked Meta.SO question.

@egreg OOOH. I should have flushed DNS cache again.

10:23 PM

@egreg Back for life, and I've just recieved an article review: "In my opinion this paper will be reconsidered when the authors check the proofs and rewrite carefully the text." That's a Pyrrhic victory :-/

I wonder who would launch a DDOS on SE? Somebody who got banned and wanted revenge? :P — Mysticial 2 hours ago

@Mystical: Whoever did it, I'm sure at one point in their development of the DDOS tool they got advice from SE. (Assuming the people who launched it developed the tool, which is probably unlikely...) — Chris Laplante 2 hours ago

Lousy losers (for another meanwhile deleted article with same content see answer in my question):

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/221443/…

@tohecz This paper will be reconsidered when the editors check the reviewers. <3

10:40 PM

Oh, already deleted. Screenshot:

user image

@PauloCereda well, the reviewer seems to be right. But I have to forget it for the last 2 weeks in France and finish my work here. I can concentrate on it when I'm in Prague.

@Speravir well, it's exactly how people thought it is. Angry user who's very likely a complete asshole :)

@tohecz Agreed.

@PauloCereda btw, gone e-shopping for one cable worth €15. The shopping cart total: €40 :D

@tohecz BTW I got also a downvote until now …

@Speravir well, "+1 asshole deleted" :)

10:52 PM

@tohecz :-D

11:18 PM

@egreg Thanks for the edit :)

@HarishKumar Spaces are ignored only after \ExplSyntaxOn; otherwise they are treated as usual.

@egreg Got it. Thanks :)

11:55 PM

I would like to use $\sqcup$ as a tape symbol for a Turning machine. How would I eliminate relation spacing from it to be treated as just some character?

@Alex ${\sqcup}$

or defined as \newcommand*\SymbU{{\sqcup}}, where \SymbU is arbitrarily chosen name

Thank you.

welcome :)

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