TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2014-12-23

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12:07 AM

@egreg Would it be inappropriate of me to edit in an MWE? In my opinion, the question is pretty clear if you're familiar with gb4e, even lacking an MWE. And I do think the question is useful for those who are just learning how to use gb4e.

@AdamLiter If you think you know what the question is about, go ahead.

12:26 AM

Why do I do this to myself? I'm just sitting on imgur trying to distill the past two years of my maths learning into 140-character comments to a person whose only formal training was in cosmetology.

How do you reason with someone who is asking you why you picked N to represent the natural numbers?

2 hours later…

2:10 AM

@SeanAllred ;). Tell them it seemed a popular choice? Or that mathematicians all got a vote and N won? (I know that's the wrong N but I don't know how to make the right one here.) I thought imgur was something to do with images?

I started to write a comment on this question but I thought better of it. I have heard the term but have no idea what this question is about.

What are the criteria for adding new tags? Was it really appropriate to accede to this request by creating a brainfuck tag?

2:23 AM

Then again, pot shouldn't call the kettle and all that...

2:58 AM

@cfr I don't know if it was appropriate, but I had to come up with an excuse for the chuckle in front of my parents XD

@cfr imgur is an image sharing site, but also a social network

imgur.com/gallery/DJJmjrh/comment/332327066 I'm vermiculus as per normal

3:23 AM

@SeanAllred There's a tag for cats, too, because I didn't really appreciate the fact that it would just accept whatever I typed as a new tag! (And I don't know how to delete it.)

@SeanAllred Hmmm... Rather you than me. But 'bitch'??!! WTF??

3:51 AM

@cfr as weird as it sounds, it's a turn of phrase there :S

@cfr Liken it to meta.stackexchange.com/a/19775/188148

4:15 AM

@egreg I just did. I also added a community wiki answer with the code that you wrote. I hope that's okay!

@SeanAllred Er... no... not really like that at all. The idea that it is 'a turn of phrase' anywhere is, frankly, disturbing. Such usage is in no way like a peculiar penchant for freehand circles. To the best of my knowledge, freehand circles are not tools of oppression or abuse.

5 hours later…

9:32 AM

@SeanAllred Try some counterintuitive question as well, like asking why the wombat's feces are of cubic form. :)

9:52 AM

@topskip: Pat!

Yay!

10:11 AM

Hi @PauloCereda

@topskip HI!

@topskip Hello

@topskip How are you, buddy? :)

/group hug

It makes me sentimental visiting tex.sx

@topskip As one of the Lua experts, did you see last night's discussion?

10:12 AM

Hi @JosephWright

no, didn't see the discussion

I have a day off! And finally time to program unnecessary stuff

(truetype parser written in Go)

@topskip Question was can Lua give more insight than \showoutput or similar in terms of glyph position on a page

@topskip There is a guy who wants to vary the glyphs chosen based on line spread: sort of microtype+

I guess I've got the same question as a private mail...

@topskip Ah

@JosephWright is this a question on the main site?

@topskip tex.stackexchange.com/questions/218306/…

@topskip Question deleted :-(

Also

2

Q: How get a space values between every chars?

Is possible to write to file all information of chapter with spaces, lines and chars? I have text, and 5cm wide line. I need ascii text file with Śród (space x1) takich (space x2) pól (x3) przed (x4) laty(x5),(x6) nad (x7) brzegiem (x8) ruczaju,(x9) Na(x10) pagórku () niewielkim,() we () ...

10:18 AM

that's more or less the same question

(same as the private mail)

@topskip It seems to me to need a rewrite of the paragraph-breaking algorithm: doable but hard work

I'ts "easy" to extract the information. I have done that in lua-visual-debug (use AtBeginShipout and analyze the node list. There you have the exact spaces/glyphs/...)

I have left a comment. I don't feel like writing a complete answer, as the OP should use the package as an inspiration.

I should bake some cookies...

@topskip oooooooh cookieeeeeeees

@DavidCarlisle: are you baking some cookies too? :)

(why do I feel David will make a clever remark about baking a roast duck?)

@PauloCereda turkey, so you are safe this year

@DavidCarlisle phew! :)

10:40 AM

@topskip Cool

@topskip I'm not sure that approach will actually solve the problem, but I've tried to tell the OP that :-)

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking of a blog post about the LaTeX2e fixes: good idea?

@DavidCarlisle, @PauloCereda From the video stats, arara is winning 54 : 44

@JosephWright apparently, people like silly talks with silly titles. :)

@PauloCereda My take is the invited speaker plan is a good one: perhaps next year I should ask say @topskip to talk :-)

@JosephWright ooh do it! :)

@PauloCereda Technically it's not my decision, of course, but strangely I do seem to be left to my own devices

@Joseph: or prod Henrique to talk about our crazy approach to tackle ABNT with biblatex. :)

10:46 AM

In all seriousness, I'd like to get a date agreed a bit more in advance than we managed this year

@PauloCereda Could do

Hello @wendy.krieger: not seen you here before

@JosephWright I think it gave us enough time. :)

@wendy.krieger: hello, welcome ~~to the jungle~~ to the TeX chatroom!

@PauloCereda If we can book a date we might get more people 'on the ground'

@JosephWright yes why not,

@PauloCereda Depends on our new chair, of course

@JosephWright I see. :)

10:48 AM

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@JosephWright You? :)

Hello @JosephWright @PauloCereda Just watching.

@PauloCereda No, I'm Secretary

@PauloCereda Probably Secretary-for-Life, if I'm honest

@wendy.krieger Cool

@topskip Cookies? Me want cookies!

5

@JosephWright Is the Queen the honorary UK-TUG president? :)

@egreg LOL I see what you did there. :)

10:49 AM

TeX is the only site i asked a question at.

@PauloCereda unfortunately she was caught using word so she was thrown out

@DavidCarlisle I thought she had some guy who handcopy things for her. :)

@PauloCereda We have only one honorary member: I'll let you guess who

@JosephWright The Duke of Edinburgh? :)

@JosephWright Hey! He isn't even able to correctly spell colour!

10:51 AM

@egreg Hilma's christmas slices

@wendy: do you like cookies too? :)

In the Monty Python "Big Red Book" there is 'how to spell' by 'The Quoon"

have been known to eat the odd anzac

@wendy.krieger Ah, a Python fan. You are in the right place

@JosephWright I was gonna mention that!

10:53 AM

@PauloCereda Indeed

"Likes children, but buscuits will do"

Get back in the cupboard you pantomimetic royal person!

@wendy.krieger Did you enter the 'win a book' competition? (meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/5703/…)

No

I visit tex.se mainly to read answers.

@wendy.krieger now you can win a book! :)

10:55 AM

folk have already asked my questions.

@egreg: one of the three wise men is suspiciously familiar. ^^ :)

You were supposed to bring myrrh!

and the Christmas 2014 award for most jarring use of Boldface goes to .... @egreg

3

user image

@wendy.krieger The search works, then :-)

I have a couple of novels on latex.

11:00 AM

@egreg It'll be tight for him whether he makes it this year... needs c. 200 points from accepts and rep cap every day...

@JosephWright why? The OP looks for the spaces and glyphs, and you can get the exact positions of these

@topskip That part, yes. But the bigger picture is he wants to take that info to re-input to TeX a version of his text where some of the glyphs are marked as changed (to alter the widths). Matching up the info will be non-trivial.

@yo' yay yo!

@JosephWright OK, I understand

@PauloCereda hi :)

11:01 AM

non-trivial = possible

@topskip as long as it's solvable in polynomial time. :)

Well, i must go make christmas. It looks like it might be a hot one.

@wendy.krieger ok, enjoy! :)

btw, I just opened the ExPex package documentation to see what tex.stackexchange.com/questions/219202/… is about, and it was a mistake.

@yo' Eek

@JosephWright exactly my thought. It's unfortunate, because the package seems to do a good job in the sense of features, but a bad job in the sense of UI and LaTeX standards. (well, it's a plainTeX package, after all, but still)

11:09 AM

@topskip Yes, but I think taking Taco's Lua for reimplementing the paragraph breaker and modifying that would be as sensible

@JosephWright is there a working non-context version?

@topskip Not at the moment, I think, but there is value in getting it working in a generic sense

@topskip I didn't say this would be easy (Taco more-or-less says it's not entirely right)

11:25 AM

@PauloCereda Can't watch it on the train, kept for later.

@egreg :)

11:44 AM

@DavidCarlisle Is there a badge for it?

@egreg not one that you deserve

@DavidCarlisle Do I ever?

Office closes in 4 minutes, ...

@egreg no:-) happy Christmas though!, we're all off to Christmas dinner, then back next year:-)

@DavidCarlisle Happy Christmas!

12:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle Wow! More than a whole week without witty comments by @DavidCarlisle and no easy answer either! Merry Christmas!

@DavidCarlisle Have a lot of fun

M-x Christmas

Christian Hupfer

12:12 PM

Good Maen... is Meta.TeX.SX down?

@ChristianHupfer Up for me.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: I try to get to that page but it's not responding... all the other ones work

12:34 PM

@PauloCereda :set Xmasmode

@yo' :)

@PauloCereda well, it's done here: Xmas sweets, Xmas bread, the turkey has arrived, fish is bought, gifts wrapped. We only need to set up the tree, and I need to learn all the organ playing for the two services :)

@yo' ooh! :)

1 hour later…

1:38 PM

100

Q: Who Wants to Win another LaTeX Book?

I am organising yet another lottery and Springer have kindly agreed to donate two copies of LaTeX and Friends (see also). This year I decided to be the judge of the lottery. The lottery closes when the judge has announced the last winner. The judge's decision is final and there shall be no disc...

discussion featured publicity

Everyone is allowed another guess

@JosephWright done. :)

2:41 PM

@PauloCereda me too :)

122 revs, 43 users -- that's some huge numbers

@yo' yay yo!

@PauloCereda hu'?

@yo' wa'

@PauloCereda huh?

uh'oh'

@yo' lol

:)

3:43 PM

@JosephWright I do hope somebody gets it :)

@PauloCereda Ho! Ho! Ho! /With a red hat on

@egreg <3

@egreg: some guidelines:

user image

:)

@PauloCereda TMYK XD That's pretty crazy. And it turned out to be just someone who wanted questions without answers – not someone who actually wanted to learn something. :(

@PauloCereda The First Christmas scene was delightful!

@SeanAllred Oh. :(

@egreg Indeed! :)

3:46 PM

@PauloCereda Yep – one of the 'First week of Philosophy 101' types.

@SeanAllred Ouch.

@egreg's starred message is very interesting, it's like a cookie counter. :) At the time of my writing, 3 Cookies. :)

@PauloCereda Behold, the internet :P Where everybody thinks they're morally, culturally, and intellectually superior – except for those who realize that this may not be the case and feel superior for realizing it.

@SeanAllred Uh-oh! REPL once again. :)

But I'm just whining now.

@PauloCereda "REPL once again"?

@SeanAllred Endless loop. :) My joke was bad. :)

That XKCD strip where there's someone wrong in the internet is pretty accurate.

3:50 PM

(loop (print (eval (read)))) :) And yes – the great cycle of life continues

@SeanAllred I wub you. <3

@PauloCereda <3

user image

2

@SeanAllred THAT ONE

Also, the sudden realization that I've done this at least twice…

4:29 PM

Hi anybody there!

@subhamsoni Hi, how are you?

yup I am good @Johannes_B

How are you?

@subhamsoni Fine as well

good to hear that.

0

A: Altering the scrlttr2 format the Indian Style

The underlined address is called the backaddress, it can be switched off by simply setting the false option. To get the ordinal number, KOMA-script provides \textsuperscript. A more specialised solution would be to use package nth with the option super \documentclass[pagenumber=false,parskip=hal...

4:30 PM

I need a small favor. I need a easy and hand-on tutorial for creating tables @Johannes_B

@subhamsoni texdoc booktabs has a nice one

Yup I saw the answer @Johannes_B. I am satisfied. But I still need customization in that. So, I feel article is better for letters

@subhamsoni What kind of customization do you mean?

Hmmm the from address to be left aligned @Johannes_B

@subhamsoni That is the standard, you changed it using fromalign=right

4:36 PM

Ok. And I need to add 'From' above the from address and 'To' above the to address

Also, there is so much gap between the from and to address. I want to reduce that

Secondly, The from address to be brought down a bit. The top margin space is too less.

@subhamsoni You can have the from and to part.

To the space: You did not specify a special lco(letter class option), so the standard is DIN (the german institute for standardizing suff). In Germany, there are envelopes with little see-throughh windows, you don't have to set the address of the receiver on the envelope again.

@subhamsoni Is there any standard for letters in india? If yes, show me where and in a few days, and indian.lco will be available at koma-script.de

Sure

Where shall I send you the letter?

your mail please

@subhamsoni Isn't there any web page you can refer to? Some kind of global indian standard?

hmmmm global Indian standard???

ok let me see

@Johannes_B It will be comfortable in mailing

4:53 PM

@subhamsoni scrlttr2 works with pseudolengths to place stuff on the page. Those can be changed by the user, there is a whole section in the documentation. If there is a national standard, we can generate a file that eases using scrlttr2 for indian LaTeX users. If this is just your personal favourite format, have a look at the aforementioned section in the doc.

@Johannes_B I think national standards for stuff like letters are a very German thing!

@JosephWright Ja. :)

@JosephWright There are lco for french, swiss and japanese standards as well. Maybe more. We germans aren't the only strange people ;-)

@Johannes_B actually there is a national standard.

@Johannes_B Perhaps, but I wonder how the settings for these are defined

4:55 PM

But I am afraid the internet gives many ;)

@JosephWright What do you mean?

@PauloCereda I decided what to eat tomorrow -> Erbseneintopf

@Johannes_B ooh it looks delicious!

1 hour later…

5:57 PM

@egreg office is closed, but we have the internet at home!

@subhamsoni I extended the answer

6:13 PM

@egreg Sorryl i don't understand what you mean tex.stackexchange.com/questions/219233/…

@Johannes_B What are the “deprecated” commands used by fancyhdr?

@egreg The font commands. \sl or \rm

@Johannes_B Fine, so it's exactly what I said. The commands \rm and \sl are used in the default setting, that \fancyhf{} will remove.

@Johannes_B Then it's up to the user having the “good” commands.

@egreg Ah, now i know what you mean.

Frank Mittelbach

Hey @PauloCereda

6:16 PM

@FrankMittelbach Hi Frank! :)

Frank Mittelbach

Nothing in the snail mail but still a day to go --- and anyway the thought counts!

@FrankMittelbach ooh

Frank Mittelbach

Don't worry :-)

@PauloCereda I keep on looking, as you know the best is anyway the waiting

@egreg Edited. Thanks again.

:)

Frank Mittelbach

6:21 PM

Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar, da es Musik enthalten könnte, über deren Verwendung wir uns mit der GEMA bisher nicht einigen konnten.
Das tut uns leid.

@FrankMittelbach GEMA!

Frank Mittelbach

and I'm not bothering now to use a proxy - yes GEMA

@FrankMittelbach I tried to troll Marco, Stefan, Christian and Johannes in the past, but GEMA saved them all. :)

In this case, it was Tom Petty's The waiting.

Frank Mittelbach

that much I could see

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=padBMW652No

Frank Mittelbach

6:39 PM

user image

we may be waiting this year for a long time

@Johannes_B For Germany there is a standards body I can believe might sit down and define a 'correct' letter. I'm not so sure about the other places.

@JosephWright I think it's mainly taking care that the receivers address si visible when folded and put into an windowed envelope.

@JosephWright You should be happy no to read german, the DIN is, in fact, horrible: Skip two line, put receiver, skip 1 line, put subject. Skip 3 lines and put opening <- Something the like.

'ello. Does anyone know where I can find some help for reading Fortran code?

It is truly Klingon written backwards.

@percusse reading it with something other than a fortran compiler?

@FrankMittelbach you killed santa?

@DavidCarlisle :-) I know. Your friends optimized it so hard, there is hardly anything relate to.

I need to convert it to Python, definitely not because I know better but I need to tweak it here and there for more flexibility with loss of possibly performance.

6:54 PM

@percusse I wasn't sure if you meant you had some code and you want to read it (as a human) or you want software that can parse it?

@Johannes_B I do read German ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I'm reading the SLICOT library.

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle not me

@JosephWright Oh you do? Nice. But please stay away from that DIN ;-)

@FrankMittelbach well I did guess you weren't driving that;-0

6:55 PM

@DavidCarlisle In particular this one github.com/avventi/Slycot/blob/master/slycot/src/AB08NX.f

Frank Mittelbach

as you know I only drive bicyles

or rather bicycles

Slycot is a python wrapper but I'm trying to remove dependencies for external compilers. So I have to convert to native Python at some point.

Unfortunately, the paper is more cumbersome than the code (pretty unsurprising in control field)

@percusse oh that looks like f77 that I might actually be able to read not all the modern f200x stuff;-)

@DavidCarlisle Probably or even ask Sven Hammarling ? :P

@percusse sven was at the christmas lunch today:-)

7:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'm really jealous of this NAG network :)

@percusse would it be more readable as C?

@DavidCarlisle Surely. Oh are you capable of running f2c ?

@percusse possibly or we have some in house convertors..

I'm missing lots of runtimes again so I gave up.

65

Q: Is every language written in C?

It may sound stupid but, sometimes while programming on different languages, this thought comes to my mind. Is each and every language written in C language? Is C language mother/father of all languages? Each concept (OOP etc) is all implemented in C language? Am I right? Kindly help.

programming-languages c

:-)

7:06 PM

@JosephWright Check out the reasoning

6

Q: How can I easily convert FORTRAN code to Python code (real code, not wrappers)

I have a numerical library in FORTRAN (I believe FORTRAN IV) and I want to convert it to Python code. I want real source code that I can import on any Python virtual machine --- Windows, MacOS-X, Linux, Android. I started to do this by hand, but there are about 1,000 routines in the library, s...

python fortran code-translation

:-)

10 GOTO 20
20 HEY COME BACK 10

I'm really curious if they pulled off a big project with BASIC

@percusse goto can be tricky i have a fortran to c# convertor and it helps it has goto, doing same to java can be tricky, I guess python would be similar

@DavidCarlisle Indeed a few people mentioned that it can choke up easily.

@percusse f2c?

@DavidCarlisle f2java I guess. The context was Java

@percusse yes well I tend to use some XSLT (to C# or C, mostly) rather than use one of the public convertors:-)

7:13 PM

@DavidCarlisle I didn't think so either.

7:41 PM

@percusse vvv

#include <string.h>
#include <math.h>
void ab08nx(*n, *m, *p, *ro, *sigma, *svlmax, abcd[], *ldabcd, *ninfz, infz[], kronl[], *mu, *nu, *nkrol, *tol, iwork[], dwork[], *ldwork, *info);
void ab08nx(*n, *m, *p, *ro, *sigma, *svlmax, abcd[], *ldabcd, *ninfz, infz[], kronl[], *mu, *nu, *nkrol, *tol, iwork[], dwork[], *ldwork, *info)
  {
    double  zero;
    const Integer info, ldabcd, ldwork, m, mu, n, ninfz, nkrol, nu, p, ro, sigma;
    double  svlmax, tol;
    Integer infz, iwork, kronl;
    double  abcd[ldabcd], dwork;

@DavidCarlisle WOW! That's great. Let me test it right away. Thank you very much.

@percusse no idea if it works or not, first time I'd run that on anything other than our code, iI had to fake a coupe of bits:-0

@DavidCarlisle I'm more interested in the algo anyways. If I can understand what the loops are the rest I can debug. Thanks again.

@percusse it's assuming integer defined type for int of some kind and MIN and MAX #define for the obvious functions.

@DavidCarlisle Sounds right.

@DavidCarlisle I have to go but thanks again. I'll wrestle with it after some alcohol consumption :)

7:51 PM

@percusse hope it's not totally messed up, the current version was expecting at least f95 conventions and moaned about some of the f77 constructs there so I forced it to be less fussy but didn't really check what came out, would give you a start of a conversion anyway;-)

8:04 PM

@ChristianHupfer How about Schweinefüße?

8:29 PM

So far, @egreg will win 5 cookies. :)

@PauloCereda why?

@DavidCarlisle See starred message. :)

@PauloCereda he should learn some English and manners: I not me biscuits not cookies, and a please added somewhere would be better.

@DavidCarlisle But then... biscuit monster... oh my, sounds classy. :)

8:58 PM

Some dry aviatic humour:

@falstro Let's just hope they're not offside. That could be problematic in a traffic pattern as dense as ORD's. — reirab 15 hours ago

9:44 PM

New mods elected on the maths site

@JosephWright it's already done?

@yo' Yes

math.stackexchange.com/election

@JosephWright ah ok, I missed it then

@yo' Result got mentioned in the mod chat room

@JosephWright ah I see. Well, I gotta practice the organ playing for tomorrow and then I'm off to bed. It'll be a busy day

so good night!

9:55 PM

@yo' Cool

@JosephWright cool but heavy, if you want to play something fancy during Xmas. Also, the hymns are played only once a year, so you don't really get much practice on them

so good bye and Merry Christmas, @Joseph!

I just hacve to remember not to switch the speakers on ...

@barbarabeeton did you really set the book by Weierstraß? Probably:-) — David Carlisle 2 mins ago

@DavidCarlisle You're being mean! ^^^

@egreg me? surely not

10:34 PM

Practice finished and I'm off to bed, Merry Christmas, everybody!

10:55 PM

Christmas is dangerous.

@cfr Some fat bloke in red could get stuck in a chimney!

:)

@yo' Merry Christmas, Tom!

@PauloCereda Climbing down other people's chimneys in the middle of the night surely makes that an occupational hazard?

Six people got killed by a dustbin lorry while shopping yesterday.

@cfr It might also cause conviction for burglary.

11:14 PM

@cfr Oh no!

11:44 PM

@PauloCereda centre of Glasgow, Scotland

user image

@PauloCereda see how unhelpful vim is? ^^^

stalking is prohibited

no winter bash this year?

@stalkingisprohibited There has never been on TeX.SX

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