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12:12 AM
@DavidCarlisle And another one!
 
@egreg yes I'd just done the \newline in minipage one when I saw your comment, I thought at first you meant that one but you meant the weird math in multicols one I suppose:-)
 
 
9 hours later…
9:47 AM
@SeanAllred (and others) Found that sentence I was concerned about reading the Vim/Emacs stuff. It's in discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/q/17923/4481: ... splitting off Emacs questions runs counter to our current thinking about what's best for our company and (we suspect) the users of Stack Overflow
 
10:00 AM
@JosephWright Uh-oh. :)
 
@PauloCereda Re-reading rest of that discussion now
 
@JosephWright In short:
:)
 
7
A: What to expect in the Emacs private beta

Wilfred HughesEmacs is a programming language, but SO does not correctly highlight emacs questions. Emacs is a tool, so many questions will be closed on SO as being out-of-context by individuals who aren't familiar with it. Emacs has competitors, true, but this is true of TeX too. Does having tex.SE risk tha...

 
@JosephWright They say emacs is a programming language. I stopped the reading. Sorry. :)
 
10:22 AM
Good maen
 
 
1 hour later…
11:22 AM
Live from the mass, through a bad 3G connection. :) Should I do that? :)
 
@PauloCereda: You will come into hell and have to work with emacs forever :-P
 
11:36 AM
@PauloCereda What mass? The Bach one is good.
Actually the Mozart one too.
@PauloCereda Animated GIFs suck.
 
Dum di dum.
 
I love how my post in advantages and disadvantages of Word vs. LaTeX resulted in -2.
Word is god awful, who can deny it... thought it would be a challenge to defend word somehow. Clearly it was controversial. :-D
 
11:58 AM
@1010011010 I was thinking a lot about errors in the past few days, so much that i decided to give a talk about errors and error management.
@1010011010 Maybe the first time you really appreciate errors is when you are doing something and buld in an error message for your future self.
 
@Johannes_B For TeX specifically or in general? I think LaTeX has these really cryptic errors sometimes. They're really hard to debug for newbies.
 
@1010011010 Both.
@1010011010 The errors of TeX are cryptic indeed, but most LaTeX errors are pretty understandable (if you make an effort in reading the error message and thinking about it).
 
I mean, after a month or so it's doable to debug things, but I can simply see the people around me struggle so bad....
 
@1010011010 I saw a person a while back struggling with an andefined command for about 15 minutes while i was helping another person. After i realized that she was still looking at the screen in confusion, i said: Did you check for spelling mistakes? She gave me a look as if i called her brain dead. »Happens to me all the time :-)« She looked closer and smiled. It was a spelling mistake.
 
If only that were the dutch mentality... my students will scratch their eyes out before asking for help on something so trivial...
 
12:06 PM
@1010011010 I recommend LaTeX for complete novices by @nicolatalbot. It has a section on common errors. Share it with your friends, it's free :-)
 
@Johannes_B Thanks I've bookmarked it. :-)
 
@1010011010 Or to put it in another way: As an architect, you need to give clear instructions to the workers. Difference is: If you write »two steal beams« a human being might say »Steal? I bet the guy meant steel« A computer program is stupid by definition and the programmer gives it some intelligence reporting a message, that steal is not a valid buildiing material.
 
@FaheemMitha Others might have a different opinion. So the best you can do is to block them in your browser.
@Christian: since you are our official chef, what do you suggest for a Christmas dinner? :)
 
@PauloCereda You are a mac user, right? latex-community.org/forum/…
@PauloCereda The chef might be @christian, but i am the liver guy.
22 hours ago, by Johannes_B
@ChristianHupfer Could be worse though: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/02/chongqing-style-beef-penis-with-wolfb‌​erries-recipe.html
@PauloCereda ^^^^
 
@Johannes_B Clarity and reception. The key elements of information transfer.
 
12:18 PM
@Johannes_B I am, but to be honest, I didn't have an adventure with Yosemite yet. :) There's a question about arara, I might do that today. :)
@Johannes_B ewww
 
12:31 PM
@PauloCereda: I am the official chef? :D
@PauloCereda: I have no recommendation yet... Let me think about it
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes. :) \def\chef{Christian Hupfer}
 
@PauloCereda Seriously?
 
1:00 PM
@paulo \def\souschef{Johannes}
 
1:23 PM
@Johannes_B ooh :)
 
1:35 PM
GoLaTeX is absolutely deserted, LC is very busy. More traffic than on a usual day.
 
@PauloCereda: Ok, I am the chef :-P
 
2:33 PM
I see there is an election over on the maths site (math.stackexchange.com/election)
 
For oment i thought to have found number three, but no: 15 vs 2
@JosephWright May i ask for your opinion as the package author? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/218948/…
 
@Johannes_B You can't assume text mode as the user might have \sisetup{mode = math}
@Johannes_B @egreg is right that this is a case for \ensuremath
 
@JosephWright Ah, ok, i'll change it.
 
@Johannes_B I'd probably just make a unit for the square-root-of-hertz
 
@JosephWright I made one for the whole thing.
 
2:39 PM
@Johannes_B Yes, I know :-)
 
@JosephWright Also for \si instead of \text?
 
@egreg Probably 'no' there: current code isn't really designed for nesting \si/\SI arguments and there is no real need here
 
@JosephWright One of the moderators resigned.
 
Googling for spectral voltage noise density give the Q as the second result.
 
@egreg Ah
@egreg They've got 8, apparently, and are appointing up to three more
 
2:42 PM
@JosephWright The site is growing bigger
 
13
Q: Why are 3 moderator positions available in the December 2014 election?

Jonas MeyerRecently Willie Wong announced that he is retiring as moderator. A moderator election just started, in which there are 3 available positions. This makes me wonder: Are other moderator retirements expected soon? Will we have an increase in the number of moderators? How was the number 3 deter...

@egreg Indeed
@egreg I see they are no. 2 by my preferred measure (questions-per-day): stackexchange.com/sites#questionsperday
 
@JosephWright @egreg You don't by any chance know the right names for these units?
 
2:56 PM
@Johannes_B You know, my last exam before graduation was the one for my second year course in physics. Physics and I have never gone along very well.
 
Wow, seven upvotes for something that simple.
 
@Johannes_B Easy answers are a rep machine: ask @DavidCarlisle. :P
 
@egreg I got 7 ups for the Flyleaf answer as well, and that took me a while to write up.
 
@Johannes_B Look at my second most upvoted answer; I guess it took me just a few minutes. ;-)
151
A: How to add a forced line break inside a table cell

egregIt's a quite old question, but I'll add my answer anyway, as the method I suggest didn't appear in the others \begin{tabular}{|c|c|c|} \hline Foo bar & \begin{tabular}[x]{@{}c@{}}Foo\\bar\end{tabular} & Foo bar \\ \hline \end{tabular} where x is either t, c, or b to force the desired vertical ...

 
@egreg I see the most upvoted one took you a little bit longer. Even as a fast typer.
@egreg When i think about my most upvoted answer, just the same
15
A: Can spaces at the beginning of a line ever cause problems?

Johannes_BUsually, spaces at the beginning of a line are ignored by TeX. However, this is not the case when writing in a verbatim like context. Tabulators at the beginning of a line are ignored as well. Whitespace characters like NO-BREAK SPACE (U+00A0) behave in a different way. To use them properly, a ...

 
3:05 PM
@Johannes_B That was indeed tougher. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
4:43 PM
I'm lazy today.
 
@PauloCereda Go and prepare some tortellini!
 
Still around 25 people in the library. I think it's time to head home \addtocounter}{people}{-1}
 
@egreg oooooh! :) For Christmas, I guess. :)
@Johannes_B Oh no! Don't leave us! :(
 
@PauloCereda Will you have lasagna?
 
@PauloCereda They'll close for the christmas break in 15 minutes anyway. Closed till kanuary fifth.
% By formally declaring documents to be composed of mark-up elements
% grouped into objects, which are interpreted and typeset with a set of
% templates, each of which has one or more instances with which to
% compose each and every semantic unit of the text, we can cleanly
% separate the components of document construction.
 
4:56 PM
@egreg Yep. :)
@Johannes_B ooh!
 
@JosephWright I find myself actually in agreement that Emacs.SE (and possibly even TeX.SE) should be rolled into SO. It would require a drastic change in how the site is moderated though, with users only seeing questions in their queue with tags they have reputation in or related tags thereof. I'm not even sure StackExchange keeps this information, though.
The same goes for Mathematica, etc.
 
@SeanAllred I can see the Emacs/Vim argument to some extent, much less the TeX one
 
@JosephWright Why do you say?
 
@SeanAllred It all depends on how far you want to stretch 'programming'. For example, I'm a chemist so if I were not on the kernel team my need for 'programming' would be very slight, but using (La)TeX would still be sensible
 
@JosephWright And using Mathematica would be, as well. The problem I think is that when we start defining boundaries like this, we run into the problem of opinions dominating the organization of the network. Opinions differ and thus we have fragmentation.
@JosephWright There is no easy answer.
As an aside, anyone who wants true inbox / notification support in sx.el should upvote this question on StackApps vvv
5
Q: Marking inbox items as read in api v2.2

MalabarbaI'm aware of this question, but it applied to an older (readonly) api version. Given that API 2.2 is read/write, I figured this might be possible now. Is there any way for an application using the API to mark as read those items returned by the inbox/unread method? I would be inclined to think...

 
5:11 PM
@SeanAllred SO is about programming, so it comes down to a balance of how much programming a particular topic needs. For TeX, I'd say we have for most end-users very little programming (they might use some code but not really follow it) and we have quite a bit of 'other stuff'.
 
@JosephWright I see what you mean now.
@JosephWright Unfortunately the argument carries quite handily for Emacs/Vim – there are many people who use these tools who have no knowledge nor need of knowledge for programming.
At least for Emacs.
 
@SeanAllred Not so sure about that, but I use neither with any regularity so recognise my lack of real experience
 
@SeanAllred Mathematica kicked off but matlab died. There is no consistency about what is allowed.
 
@JosephWright s/chemist/chemist and timelord/g :)
 
@percusse That's not about 'allowed', is it? I thought that came down more to take-up on the two sites.
 
5:15 PM
@percusse This is exactly the problem :/ I hate matlab and I think Mathematica is a superior language on all counts, but if Mathematica has a right to exist as a site, so should matlab.
 
@JosephWright As far as I know, they pulled the plug even though there was some backup.
 
@percusse I can't say: didn't follow the situation
 
@JosephWright That's the ideal, yes – but many proposals are shut down for being 'invalid'. I had a text editors proposal some time back that was shut down for being within SO.
 
@SeanAllred I can see this: I think there argument there is that for text editors in general there is a lot of overlap with 'programming'
 
@SeanAllred Well I don't agree about the language part but yes or they should have merged it. But because the model is successful they want specialized clans. If you combine those two. Every question will be a battleground.
 
5:17 PM
@SeanAllred Problem for us is that anything about typography, best practice, etc. in TeX would clearly be closed on SO
 
@percusse :) The language part was very much tongue-in-cheek
 
Disclaimer: I dislike both :)
 
@JosephWright And on here as well – we generally don't accept questions about typography / best practice as they're primarily opinion-based
 
@SeanAllred That bracket thing is almost as bad as in Brainfuck
 
@SeanAllred, @percusse I'm mainly going to watch the Emacs/Vim situation because I'm worried where it might lead rather than having anything to do with those editors
 
5:18 PM
@percusse I can see the battleground argument
Similar to how we have PSTricks answers for every TikZ question :)
 
@JosephWright I guess they'll take the heat for a few weeks and it will be forgotten.
 
@SeanAllred I was thinking for example of the many 'How to align this text/maths' questions: that's typography not programming, and is on topic for us
 
@JosephWright Oh – gotcha
 
@percusse I hope so: looking at our stats I think we do very well and do pass the 'useful for people' test
 
@JosephWright And to be perfectly honest with you I don't think Emacs is worth of a separate network either.
I think it passed the nerdness factor to be an entity.
 
5:20 PM
@percusse But how do you back that up while remaining consistent with yourself?
 
@percusse I get the feeling the Powers may well pull the plug
 
@SeanAllred I'm anything but consistent. :) But emacs is emacs. If you are not a coder that codes more than an hour a day it is pretty much useless.
 
@percusse I respectfully disagree :)
211
A: LaTeX Editors/IDEs

YuppieNetworkingEmacs with AUCTeX — emacs auctex Platforms: Windows, Mac (incl. Aquamacs fork), Unix License: Free software (GPL) Languages: de, dk, fr, is, it, jp, nl, pl, se, sk are supported by AUCTeX language styles Unicode: Yes, from Emacs 23, characters are represented using Unicode RTL/bidirectional sup...

 
@SeanAllred you can disagree without respect :) Bring it on... :P
 
@SeanAllred But that's just the same as any other editor
 
5:24 PM
@percusse Emacs is a meta-tool that can be learned for a variety of applications. I've shown (some people who I used to be roommates with) org-mode and they loved it. They have no programming experience whatsoever
 
@SeanAllred If you are not using to the max which is all the buffers, shortcut keys etc. it is an ugly terminal. And the point is is it really bringing enough benefits or you are becoming a keyboard player.
 
@JosephWright I don't think that matters for the argument – Emacs is just an editor: it's not a programmer's editor, it's not a scientist's editor, etc., etc. – it is an editor.
 
TeX is the same. If you are not typing documents that often, TeX is useless too. Word can carry you further to some extent.
 
@percusse Playing devil's advocate, "What's a terminal?"
 
But I'm aware that I'll loose any argument against emacs anyhow hehe.
 
5:26 PM
@percusse My argument has always remained the same: If you have a use for a tool, use the tool.
 
@SeanAllred you can also say if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail
 
Many people don't have a use for writing documents. That's fine – you don't need to use a good tool for that. Word is perfectly good for the occasional flyer for a yard-sale, etc.
But if you want to start writing for a living, use a tool that will help you get the job done.
 
@percusse Maslov. :)
 
@SeanAllred That's what I mean an hour a day argument
So it's not just an editor. It's a heavy duty editor
You shouldn't push that onto people with casual use.
 
@percusse Not quite – you said coding for an hour a day :)
I don't push it onto people – same with TeX – I find people who would have a use and I casually demonstrate that use until they ask me what I'm doing :)
 
5:28 PM
@SeanAllred Well you won't type a word document in emacs now would you?
 
@percusse I wouldn't type a Word document in Word, so… :)
 
@SeanAllred So you usually code in emacs hence my wording
 
@percusse I honestly don't see your line of thought there :(
@percusse There was about two years at the end of undergrad where I didn't do any coding in emacs but used it very heavily
@percusse And I mean any coding – there was nothing to be done. It was all CS (as opposed to software engineering / computer engineering)
 
@SeanAllred Here is a map: Emacs is almighty -> you can do a lot of stuff -> Not everybody does a lot of stuff -> Many people do occasionally emacs-worthy operations -> Emacs is not needed in general
Don't take coding literally, TeX is also coding in this context
Also for @PauloCereda Vim is also almighty fine.
 
@percusse I really don't see the transition from "Many people do […] emacs-worthy operations" to "Emacs is not needed in general"
 
5:34 PM
You don't like to change your mind now do you? haha
If I'm an accountant and using a lot of computer (8 hours a day) and crunching Excel or OpenOffice/Matlab or etc. I wouldn't really need emacs at all.
 
@percusse I'm very well rooted in my conclusions :) But I'm always open to change when someone presents a good argument
 
If I'm an engineer (which is I am really) and if I'm really not using any text based software other than MS Word (I have to) I don't need emacs at all
 
@percusse But those operations – Excel / Matlab work – aren't really emacs-worthy operations
 
@SeanAllred Exactly my point.
 
@percusse "Many people do occasionally emacs-worthy operations" ???
I'm so confused XD
 
5:36 PM
If you are not typing/coding/whatever, this emacs/vim business is really very specific to a particular group of people who also happen to be dominating the SO network.
I wouldn't expect it to be separate than superuser or SO
 
@percusse And we come back to the underlying issue: where do emacs questions belong? Because they certainly aren't well-received on SO or SU.
 
@SeanAllred And why I don't know.
 
For that matter, where do AUCTeX questions belong? They aren't about TeX, etc.
@percusse Hard questions :(
 
it should have been received gracefully according to my stereotype
 
And now I've got to get on the road :)
@percusse Agreed – there is work to be done about the hostility of SO
Take care!
 
5:39 PM
Bye!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:57 PM
@DavidCarlisle On tex.stackexchange.com/questions/218983/…, that code is copy-pasted but I think in the source #2 is always one token and I think is always a letter
@DavidCarlisle Code is ropey, of course
 
@JosephWright presumably or tehe OP might have noticed, but still as I say that isn't what the code is testing:-)
 
@SeanAllred Just my 2 cents: Org-mode spreadsheets and Calc. I do many of my spreadsheets in Emacs, and if I have to do some number-crunching on my computer, I usually use Emacs, too. (Just sayin'.)
 
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ which emacs
/usr/bin/which: no emacs in (/usr/lib64/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/home/paulo/.local/bin:/home/paulo/bin)
@DavidCarlisle: ^^ :)
 
yo'
7:12 PM
@PauloCereda 'lo
 
@yo' Tom!
Yo!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda :)
@Paulo how do you do?
 
@mbork I do like me some org-mode spreadsheets, but there are some things that would be too complicated to set up right now with it (e.g. conditional formatting)
Calc is amazing though
 
@yo' In a hurry, but fine. :) And you?
 
yo'
@PauloCereda fine, but it was a tough day
 
7:27 PM
@yo' Oh no, what happened?
 
@SeanAllred True, Org spreadsheets have some powerful features, but there are also things it can't do. I agree that Calc is pure awesomeness.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda a lot of playing in the church
 
@yo' ooh you were playing in hard mode. :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda tutti :D
 
Hi
 
yo'
7:31 PM
@s__C 'lo
 
@s__C yo
 
yo'
@PauloCereda hey! :D
 
@yo' yo! :)
2014 version of Who's on first.
 
Does anyone know why when using lualatex and unicode-math MnSymbol fails to render \sfrac{x}{y} and MnSymbol fails to render \sqrt{x} ?
I might add some code to show that
 
yo'
@s__C or ask a question on the site? With an MWE of course ;)
 
7:33 PM
well
I'm messing like hell between xelatex that has some issues with \textsl (letterspacing of \textsc) and MinionPro
It becomes to be painful
does anyone know where the special utf8 character used for sfrac belongs to, so that I could select the corresponding range in the font that works?
 
8:33 PM
@s__C ? I don't see an sfrac command in amsmath or mnsymbol or unicode-math?
@PauloCereda just hope santa brings you a real computer for christmas
 
@DavidCarlisle The ironic thing is, I'll still waiting for my package from Dell. :(
 
@PauloCereda perhaps you haven't been good so get a visit from this rather than santa tex.stackexchange.com/questions/149604/…
 
@DavidCarlisle No thanks. :)
 
8:55 PM
@s__C What makes you suppose that MnSymbol10 can be used with unicode-math?
 
@s__C unicode-math assumes the font has the MATH table structure and lots of things will probably fail if you just give it a text font
 
9:12 PM
@egreg nothing...
just never found the good way to use MnSymbol with lualatex
 
It's red alert. Where can I find Gonzalo Medina ?
 
@s__C It's not a full fledged OpenType math font, just a Type1 font.
 
i guess yes
but even if I add \usepackage{MnSymbol} before it doesn't work correctly
 
@1010011010 Maybe @StefanKottwitz or @JosephWright can ping him. Let me try.
 
the best would be to use only mDsymbol. but sqrt is broken
 
9:16 PM
@GonzaloMedina Are you somewhere near?
 
@egreg you speak Korean?
 
@DavidCarlisle As you master TikZ
 
Maybe we can give debugging here a first shot. Does this error ring a bell at all to any of you?
TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
\@restorepar ->\def \par
                         {\@par }
l.1185 \EndMark
 
@egreg E 'vero , io sono un maestro di tikz
 
@DavidCarlisle “Master” is more like “esperto”.
 
9:19 PM
@1010011010 you have an infinite loop, it's best not to do that
2
@egreg i have faith in my sources
 
@DavidCarlisle I can tell you that the phrase 나는 남자를 이다 means “I am a man”.
 
@DavidCarlisle It randomly happens in one of Gonzalo's fancy Tables of contents. I fixed it randomly before but surprise.. it gives up on me one and a half hour before the deadline.
 
@1010011010 Post the problem as a new question, somebody may help if it's understandable.
 
@StefanKottwitz I can only reproduce the problem with lots of complicated environments. :-( I'm so done.
 
@1010011010 Isolating the cause is usually possible, even if it may costs some steps forward and backward
 
9:36 PM
@StefanKottwitz It seems like a classic case of exceeded TeX capacity. I can't isolate anything other than the number of elements in my document. If I get rid of a graph, it works fine. If I get rid of an infobox, it's fine.
Where do I increase TeX capacity again? So I can just test run it with larger numbers.
I use many many drop shadows in my document, which might be a clue as to why it's happening. I don't know.
 
@1010011010 Classic cases usual have solutions on this site. Loading etex, switching to LuaTeX, externalizing pictures, are such examples.
@1010011010 Perhaps compile some graphs separately with the standalone class and include as pdf
 
@StefanKottwitz I already did. There's nothing else to precompile.
 
10:22 PM
@1010011010 No, that's a case of recursive definition; \@restorepar is called in the wrong place; probably \@doendpe is badly used.
 
@egreg Well, the error goes away if I remove tcolorboxes or \StartMark, \EndMark pairs.
 
@1010011010 so make a mwe just containing those by starting with a bad document and remove everthing else chances are you have a \setbox without a preceding \leavevmode but without a test file hard to find
 
@DavidCarlisle Hopefully it'll be that easy :-)
 
@Felix Consider that I can't read Chinese, Japanese or Korean; but I searched for space in the documentation, found the option and tried it. :)egreg 1 hour ago
 
yo'
@JosephWright that's a nice one, yeah :)
 
10:37 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle claims to know all languages. I don't, so I resort to reading manuals.
 
@egreg :-)
 
@egreg 한글 은 읽기 쉬운
 
@DavidCarlisle :P
 
All right. Isolated this piece of shit.
 
yo'
anyways, gotta go now. see you some time tomorrow, or not, and merry Xmas!
 
10:48 PM
0
Q: Recursion of unknown origin: TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=10000]

1010011010For some reason, there's a recursive definition in this MWE. Who can find where it goes wrong? \documentclass{article} \usepackage{xcolor} \usepackage{titlesec} \usepackage{tcolorbox} \usepackage{refcount} \usepackage{tikz} \usetikzlibrary{calc} \usepackage{titletoc} \usepackage{tikzpagenodes} ...

 
@1010011010 I answered, as I suggested to make a minimal example, so I'm obliged to check it
 
@StefanKottwitz Thank you. I feel kind of stupid for not seeing this, though \par generally isn't such a fragile command.......
 
@1010011010 you'd be surprised:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I am surprised right now:-)
 
@1010011010 I would not have guessed it too, but once we got the code to test it's easy to give it a try
 
10:59 PM
@1010011010 `\par` sometimes means end of paragraph primitive but in latex.ltx you will find `\let\par\@empty` `\def\par{#1}\def\@par{#1}` `\def\@restorepar{\def\par{\@par}}` ` \@setpar{\if@newlist
\advance\par@deathcycles \@ne
\ifnum \par@deathcycles >\@m
\@noitemerr
{\@@par}%
\fi
\else
{\@@par}%
\fi}%
` and other things....
 
11:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle Wow. I learn something new every day, I guess. :-) Thanks for your help Everybody
 

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