Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2012-07-07

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1:49 AM

How do Muslims respond to C.S. Lewis's "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" argument? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1299/how-do-muslims-respond-to-c-s-lewiss-lord-liar-or-lunatic-argument?atw=1 #jesus

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 1:42 AM

Assalam Alaikum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh

1 hour later…

3:25 AM

wa 'alaykum assalaam

4:01 AM

Finally after long research :D

0

Q: What women can't a man marry?

While I know that Islam allow a man to marry four wives at the same time, it prohibited men from marrying specific women, such as mother. My question is who are those women that are prohibited for a man? and are they prohibited forever? Thanks in advance.

sharia marriage halal-haram fiqh

4:50 AM

Can a Muslim borrow money from his own 401(k) plan, with interest? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1290/can-a-muslim-borrow-money-from-his-own-401k-plan-with-interest?atw=1 #interest

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 4:42 AM

1 hour later…

6:17 AM

0

Q: An advertisement poster for Islam.SE

I created this poster. Please leve your comments and feedbacks on how to improve it. . This is not complete i have to add a QR code below on the right hand side. or this Please dont ask me from where i took the background image. It was from google image search. Is it open sou...

discussion site-promotion

2 hours later…

7:50 AM

Great answer: Why is Life insurance considered un-Islamic http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1129/why-is-life-insurance-considered-un-islamic/1132?atw=1#1132 #sharia

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 7:42 AM

1 hour later…

8:57 AM

@Caleb welcome to Islam.SE

@HaLaBi Thank you.

Your question is great..

@Caleb are you turkish?

@HaLaBi No, I'm American by birth, but I do speak Turkish and currently live in Izmir.

Ok :)

2 hours later…

10:53 AM

What is Waqf in Shariah law? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1311/what-is-waqf-in-shariah-law?atw=1 #sharia

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 10:42 AM

3 hours later…

1:53 PM

Can you answer this? How Aql is different from Qiyas? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1306/how-aql-is-different-from-qiyas?atw=1 #usoolulfiqh

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 1:42 PM

2:08 PM

Asalamu wa alaikum

2:47 PM

0

Q: what kind of edits should be done?

I have seen this question and I'm kinda surprised from the Edit. The Edit is bigger than the original question. What if the OP did not mean that and he/she simply meant what was asked in the original question? What is recommended for edits? is the edit mentioned in the question above a good edi...

discussion editing

Asalamu wa alaikum @goldPseudo

wa 'alaykum assalaam

how are you today?

not bad. just going through the new questions.

3:12 PM

the textual criticism one is very good.

going through ershad's answer now.

which looks good, but really doesn't seem to answer the question.

I am reading the answer now

the section on the Qur'an is sorely lacking, mostly (i believe) due to a misunderstanding to what "Textual Criticism" is.

i feel that any complete answer needs to at least mention the ten qira'at and the seven ahruf.

ahruf? sorry I am not that good with transliteration

The prophet said: “It was revealed thus; this Qur’an has been revealed in Seven Ahruf. You can read it in any of them you find easy from among them."

let me see if i can dig up the original hadith with arabic. it's referring to the seven different "versions" of the Qur'an that were revealed.

sunnah.com/urn/46690

"إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ أُنْزِلَ عَلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ فَاقْرَءُوا مَا تَيَسَّرَ مِنْهُ"

3:31 PM

thanks :)

4:05 PM

Asalamu wa alaikum @Ershad

Walaikkum Assalam @AlUmmat Assalamu alaikkum @goldPseudo Yes, I think I misunderstood textual criticism..

@goldPseudo Isn't Qira'at for recitation?

I agree about ahruf..

islamqa.com/en/ref/5142

When ‘Uthmaan made copies of the Qur’aan, he did so according to one style (harf), but he omitted the dots and vowel points so that some other styles could also be accommodated. So the Mus-haf that was copied in his time could be read according to other styles, and whatever styles were accommodated by the Mus-haf of ‘Uthmaan remained in use, and the styles that could not be accommodated fell into disuse.

@Ershad yes Qira'at is for recitation, sorry if I am not the one you expect the answer from

@AlUmmat lol, as long as I get the answer its fine :)

Thanks

ok

there are ten Qira'at

for example, Qira'at Hafs and Warsh, those are two

Yes, I know that. I was just confirming.. because Qira'at is different from harf..

4:16 PM

yes, that was new to me, I knew about the Huruf, but some how it just didn't stick in my mind, so when I hear about them it seems that it is a new thing :)

btw I think my answer could be improved based on the suggestion of @goldPseudo but if he has better answer I will let him do it

Salamu alaykum all

@AlUmmat I have question i really wanted to ask since the site started..

@HaLaBi wa alaikum salam, please ask :)

you always say Asalamu wa alaikum

I can't see why..

whats the point of wa in the middle of assalamu alaykum?

in arabic it is السلام عليكم

whats with the wa in the middle??

@HaLaBi Well in Transliteration people put wa, so I have adapted to doing that, I originally wrote the salams as, " Salam Alaikum " but since no one in America knew what I talk about or they take a lot of time to read it, I have adapted to this, and still how I write is wrong in transliteration

4:28 PM

well, even if you literally translate it.. it has no WA

السلام عليكم

Al-salam'u Alaykum... Am I wrong :D?

sometimes I feel i have thick brain..

thick

@HaLaBi I recall somewhere reading the salams as السلام و عليكم so perhaps this is how the transliterations started

maybe.. but it is wrong..

السلام و عليكم it is not even arabic :D

Yes I know

to english this will be "Peace be and upon you"

@goldPseudo I added something about Ahruf :) I hope now it is complete

4:32 PM

hmm, I never thought about that, usually I do not translate Arabic

@HaLaBi Walaykkum Assalam :)

@Ershad whats up?

0

Q: what kind of edits should be done?

I have seen this question and I'm kinda surprised from the Edit. The Edit is bigger than the original question. What if the OP did not mean that and he/she simply meant what was asked in the original question? What is recommended for edits? is the edit mentioned in the question above a good edi...

discussion editing

@HaLaBi I will gladly change my transliteration :)

@AlUmmat it is ok. I did not mean to ask you to change it. I was just asking why ;)

Actually I realy hate transliteration, I will tell you, it is the enemy of the Arabic teacher

4:35 PM

@HaLaBi I think it is two related questions combined.. :D

more like a team work

I think it is totally inapropriate

If the OP has objection to it, he can rollback :)

yup.. but I was more of asking.. is this even logical..

no.. i think we should refrain from interpreting someone's question

4:53 PM

Is Textual Critisism important to Islamic studies? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1310/is-textual-critisism-important-to-islamic-studies?atw=1 #quran

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 4:42 PM

for the purpose of "textual criticism", having different versions of a primary text is a fundamental concern.

there are different "versions" of the Qur'an. these versions can be broken down to differences in ahruf, and differences in qira'at.

@goldPseudo i have opinion in this topic

that's why i feel that both should be mentioned.

Actually, you can for sure ignore the textual criticism when it comes to islam for simple reason.......

@goldPseudo I mentioned Ahruf.. but Qir'aat is different..

4:55 PM

Quran is not saved in the books.. it is saved in minds.. Do you know that there are people up to today who knows quran from someone, and this someone knows it from someone...and so on until mohammed pbuh..

even if they're mentioned only to say that they don't substantially change the meaning and they're all equally acceptable, they should be mentioned because it's relevant to the field of textual criticism.

so Mushafs are not the key here...

@goldPseudo I agree ahruf is relevant.. because Qur'an was revealed in different harf to the Prophet.. however Qir'aat is man-made

The seven readers of Qur'an are : 1- Naafi’ al-Madani

2- Ibn Katheer al-Makki

3- ‘Aasim al-Kufi

4- Hamzah al-Zayaat al-Kufi

5- Al-Kisaa’i al-Kufi

6- Abu ‘Amr ibn al-‘Ala’ al-Basri

7- ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Aamir al-Shaami

the Qir'aat came from these people

the texts of the different qira'at are not necessarily the same though. which is why it's relevant to textual criticism.

since the qira'at are based on the original Uthmanic script.

Ahruf are different languages at the time.. the old arabic languages.. they were different.. so Mohammed said the quran in the native language of the one he is talking to.. mohammed pbuh used to know all the languages in the area..

5:03 PM

which wasn't written with the vowels and the dots that we see in Arabic script today.

so even though the qira'at don't substantially change the meaning of anything, they do change the (modern) text by changing the vowels, or by reading a 'ta' instead of a 'ya'.

for example.

@goldPseudo yes. I agree

However, textual criticism is for the purpose of interpretation right?

it is to decide what looks WRONG and remove it or change it..

wrong in the sense? with respect to meanings?

textual criticism is just to determine if you're using the most authentic text.

and how do the determine it..for e.g what do you compare it with ?

I am saying this for Bible

because, like you said for Qur'an we have the Uthman Mush-haf..he omitted the dots and vowel points so that some other styles could also be accommodated.

it is a provision.

however that doesn't change anything of the original

5:14 PM

do you speak true? i thought the dots weren't even invented yet.

same with the vowel points.

i was under the impression that it was just written with the Arabic script at the time.

islamqa.com/en/ref/5142

at it's most basic level, the purpose of Textual Criticism is to answer the question "Is this copy of the book the same as the original copy of the book? If not, is it as close as we can get it?"

2

@goldPseudo you are missing the point here.. the main point of Quran

can we be sure that the modern text which says "كَبِيرًا" is accurate? what if you compare it to this other text which says "كَثِيرًا"?

how do you know which is the most correct? that's Textual Criticism.

Quran is not in the text.. it is in the minds of people from the time of mohammed till now.. whats in the books is not the source at all.. Tawator is the source.

5:29 PM

(and of course that's not even getting into the whole "missing verses" debate..)

Shia point of view..

5:56 PM

this discussion prompted me to post the following question (tangential, but related):

0

Q: Why are Surat al-Khal and Surat al-Hafd not included in the Qur'an?

Ubayy bin Kab, in one of the pre-Uthmanic compilations of the Qur'an, allegedly recorded two additional suwar (Surat al-Khal and Surat al-Hafd) that are not found today. Is this an accurate claim? If so, has any reason been given for their lack of inclusion in Uthman's canonized text, especiall...

thats the first time i hear this..

6:09 PM

i do not like that question

it is against an aya.. you can't put a claim against aya! there is an aya in quran says that God is responsible of saving quran...

i stand by it. it's a legitimate question.

yes it is.. but at the same time asking something you know it can not be right is not logical ;)

i am sorry johanathan.. for the first time igive you -1 :(

I just dont like it. can't like it..

meh. your prerogative. i don't expect to make friends with this question :p

but i would like an authoritative answer to it.

:D

First time hearing about it, interesting question none the less.

6:13 PM

you can google it up, but most information comes from the "anti-muslim" crowds and is hardly reliable.

Today I was wondering if I can find the Qur'an in the order it revealed.

Is such thing exist?

yup.. no respurces..

but there would be a nice question about 'Mus'haf Fatimah'

i think there were actual manuscripts of Ubay's codex found which hadn't been destroyed by Uthman.

again, not sure how much of that information is reliable.

man, God cleared it in Quran..

it is known that there were different manuscripts of Qur'an during the time of Uthman, and a major reason he went through the effort of canonizing the text was to prevent disagreements.

6:19 PM

Man, I told you.. I do not believe in the manuscripts.. thats not a source for quran.. Quran is coming to us by tawator..

6:37 PM

@AhmedHan If you wish to discuss somebody else's DV etiquette, that sort of discussion is better done in chat or in meta. Comments should be limited to those directly relevant to the post itself.

6:51 PM

salam alekum

wa alaykum assalam

@goldPseudo did you get hurt from my DV?

1 hour later…

7:53 PM

How does Islam view the Christian New Testament? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1323/how-does-islam-view-the-christian-new-testament?atw=1 #christianity

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 7:42 PM

@goldPseudo Salamun alaykum. That comment of mine was related with the question. I asked the reason of the DV.

@hkBattousai the first comment was related. the second one was not.

8:53 PM

Salam Alaikum

wa 'alaykum assalaam

9:22 PM

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh

wa 'alaykum assalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

I see @Caleb is here :)

I remember you from SO @Caleb, you are enlightened in programming :)

1 hour later…

10:43 PM

There's at least two Calebs on the SE network. @MrTAMER. @Caleb.

10:54 PM

Great answer: Why do Muslims add "peace be upon him" after names of important people? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1/why-do-muslims-add-peace-be-upon-him-after-names-of-important-people/3?atw=1#3 #people

Tweeted by StackIslam on July 7, 2012 at 10:42 PM

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