Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2012-06-25 (page 1 of 2)

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12:00 AM

The tags are a bit of a mess right now...

yes

We should make some of them synonyms.

(First.)

Like, halal, haram, etc.

We will be able to do that soon no one has the privilege to do it yet

@AlUmmat Ah, OK.

@AlUmmat Actually, we can do it whenever we get our mods. Probably within the next couple weeks.

12:05 AM

oh good than we don't have to wait long :)

During the Public Beta, it becomes more difficult to get privliges and we will all probably lose a few since the rep bar goes up.

ok

In fact, right now, only 8 people would be able to cast close votes.

And only 36 people would be able to vote down...

wow I never knew that

And only you and ashes would have edit privileges.

12:10 AM

actually there ar e6 people that can edit right now

But during Public Beta, it would be only you and ashes

why

Like I said, it takes more rep to get privliges in Public Beta.

hmm ok

0

Q: List of tag synonyms

We'll need to merge tags/clean up. In the answer below is a list of tags that need to be turned into synonyms. Concerning which tag should be made 'dominant', this answer says: The practice on similar sites (e.g. Judaism ) is to make the English word a synonym for the transliteration. In tha...

discussion tag tag-synonyms

If anyone wants to add to the list, that'd be great.

12:18 AM

I added a few tags

I added some too

I do not think halal and haram are part of these

sin-or-not, sin, halal, haram

in the list

2 hours later…

2:06 AM

that baghiyah post is taking a nasty turn ....

2

Q: how to detemine and fight the Baqiyah Muslims according to this verse?

this verse of Quran says if two group of Muslims fought each other, Muslims should fight against the Baqiyah group. but problem is usually both group claim the other side is Baqiyah group. according to this verse we as Muslims should fight to Baqiyah group. so how the baqiyah group should be det...

jihad war civil-war

@Ansari what post?

@goldPseudo

oh sorry

2:28 AM

Asalamu wa alaikum @MohammadYaseen

the baghiyah post was good, but the comment-argument is uncalled for. i flagged it.

if people see stuff like that on the front page, they'll think they can use the site for argument and debate, which is very not what we're going for.

2

yeah exactly.

Ive got a question, a few hours ago I got something called a rep cap, and so I looked it up and found out what it is, but a few hours later, I am gaining reputation, is this supposed to happen?

the day has changed @AlUmmat :)

2 hours 40 mins ago

you can even gain reputation if you are rep-capped.

2:42 AM

oh so if you get a rep cap at the end of the day and it goes into the next, the cap is removed?

the rep cap is only for upvotes, afaik. even capped, you can still get rep for accepted answers.

and then the cap is reset every day.

@goldPseudo so what is the point of the rep cap then? if you gain points from accepted answers?

it's just to stop people from getting too much rep too fast from upvotes.

@goldPseudo ok

i.e., if someone goes through your history and just upvotes everything you've ever posted, you could gain a ridiculous amount of reputation all at once.

2:45 AM

yeah

i think it's mostly to prevent abuse, so someone can't go from 1 rep to full moderator privileges before anyone has a chance to react.

but that's just speculation on my part

@goldPseudo no that is what the post said that I read

0

Q: is it obligatory for a Muslim to reserch about all sects of Islam before becoming Muslim?

Quran [9:122] says وَمَا كَانَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لِيَنفِرُوا كَافَّةً ۚ فَلَوْلَا نَفَرَ مِن كُلِّ فِرْقَةٍ مِّنْهُمْ طَائِفَةٌ لِّيَتَفَقَّهُوا فِي الدِّينِ وَلِيُنذِرُوا قَوْمَهُمْ إِذَا رَجَعُوا إِلَيْهِمْ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَحْذَرُونَ And it is not for the believers to go forth all at ...

shia-sunni sects saved-sect

@goldPseudo Actually, a Serial Upvoting script will detect that behavior and undo that much upvoting.

yeah, i know. it was just an example.

Also:

27

Q: Revisiting the rep cap (yes, again)

TL;DR: The rep cap system isn't as effective or fair as it might be. I'm proposing one alternative for comment, and would welcome other suggestions too. Disclaimers I'm pretty sure the rep cap hits me harder than anyone else (pretty often over 1000 points in a day), so a change could easily be ...

discussion daily-reputation-limit

It does not apply to bounties or accepted answers.

3:09 AM

Asalamu wa alaikum @SystemDown

@AlUmmat Did @SystemDown visit here? I don't see anything in the sidebar...

do we want to burninate citation-needed, or merge it into reference-request?

since it does seem that c-n is the more popular of the two (even if they're both being used poorly).

@goldPseudo Burninate both.

They're meta-tags.

1

Q: How should the reference-request tag be used?

The reference-request tag (or whatever we end up calling it), as it currently seems to be used, is really rubbing me the wrong way. As is, it is basically requesting that answers provide references to support their conclusions. A good practice to follow, to be sure, but it's such a general-use ...

@muntoo yes he wa here

3:20 AM

i feel that the tag is useful for questions that are actually about digging up a particular reference. using it as a meta-tag (as in many of the questions under it right now) should be discouraged, but the tag itself still has value.

@goldPseudo I would say to merge it

I think that 'reference-request' could be put into the questions themselves. I think all answers should be backed by references where possible. The use of this tag implies that some questions do not *have* to have references.

The problem with not providing references is that there are various opinions, and interpretations. I think Christianity.SE and Judaism.SE both have a citation-strongly-preferred policy, as does Skeptics.SE. This is because they all have various viewpoints.

i agree that providing references should be standard practice (at least when reasonable).

i'm suggesting the reference-request tag be used for digging up specific references. such as this question:

4

Q: What is the source of this hadith regarding angels and the language of the Qur'an?

This post makes allusion to a particular hadith, and I recall having read something similar elsewhere. However, I have no clue what the actual source is, or if it is even a hadith of the prophet at all. The meaning is, in effect, as follows: In whatever language the Qur'an is read, the ange...

reference-request

"Meta-tags are actually a subset of a larger problem that I usually call dependent tags. These are tags that don't say anything by themselves - you can't tell what the question is about unless they're paired with some other tag (or several of them). These tags are a problem because people don't realize this and will often use that as the question's only tag."

(reference-request as I'm suggesting it doesn't fall under that category, since it is sufficiently stand-alone on a question)

Hmm... I see.

Maybe it should be renamed to something else which cannot be confused, and the tag reference-request?

On SciFi.SE, we use story-identification.

3:35 AM

yeah, that's exactly the sort of tag I want.

maybe reference-lookup or something? just to differentiate?

source-identification?

@goldPseudo Getting better... I think that's even better than reference-request.

thing-find-please?

@goldPseudo lol, no.

i definitely agree we don't want a tag for "answers that should cite their references", that's just all sorts of sloppy.

@tachyons Asalamu wa alaikum

3:44 AM

@AlUmmat waalaikumussalam

@Ahmadi please come to chat let's discuss here :-)

Just for reference, you can also open a chat room with another user. Think you can set it to private.

Not that we don't want you here or anything. :)

Assalaamu 'alaykum, @Ahmadi

not sure about private.

i know you can set it to "only specific people can talk"

but i'm pretty sure everything that goes on in chat is publically readable.

Asalamu wa alaikum @Ahmadi

Assalamu Alaykum va Rahmatullah Bothers/Sisters

no problem all are welcomed

@Ahmadi waalaikumussalam wr wb

3:49 AM

@Ahmadi if I may ask, what are the five pillars if shia islam?

yes sue

OK, I've done removing everything from reference-request (and put the relevant ones into source-identification. Now onto citation-needed...

please look here:

Five Pillars of Islam

The Five Pillars of Islam (' ; also ' "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Sunni Islam, considered obligatory by believers. These are summarized in the famous Hadith of Gabriel. The Qur'an presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They are (1) the shahada (Islamic creed), (2) daily prayers (salah), (3) almsgiving (zakāt), (4) fasting during Ramadan (sawm), and (5) the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime. The minority Shi'a and majority Sunni both agree on the essential details for the performance of these acts, bu...

@goldPseudo Nice formatting idea, BTW.

:)

3:51 AM

(to avoide long typing)

some of the citation-needed questions might fall into source-identification but it's harder to tell.

What should I retag this question as:

1

Q: Is it okay to whistle after Maghrib?

I have been told once that it is not good to whistle after Maghrib because it attracts the Shayateen/bad jinn to you. Are there any hadiths on this?

citation-needed hadith

the whistling question and the 124,000 question in particular. they're not asking for a particular evidence, but they are seeking evidence in particular (if that makes sense)

i think we can tag them as source-identification for now.

Also, I'm not sure what to do about the hadith. I don't think it should be used in this context.

K.

not sure if we even need a hadith. it feels like any hadith questions would either really be about sunnah or source-identification.

3:56 AM

@Ahmadi well i would say that they are all right, but both Quran and sunnah/hadith so even though the pillars if shia are right they do not exactly match

@AlUmmat sorry, what you mean?

(my english is not perfect and some times I do not undrestand what you mean)

259

Q: What Stack Overflow is Not

This post is intended to be a reference for the various comments made to new users asking them to change something about their post. Important If you link any of these, I recommend that you personalize your comment a bit to avoid accusations of rudeness. Example: We don't know what you are...

discussion faq stackoverflow etiquette

@Ahmadi In the Qur'an it talks about, The shaddah , salaat, hajj, sawm /fasting, and zakaat and in the Hadith The Prophet Muhammad said that these things were what islam was built upon, so the Qur'an and sunnah match, do you understand?

yes. ok

Quan and sunnah mathch

but real sunnah. and the sunnah we are told may not be the real sunnah

during history Islam was hijacked by Umayids and Abbasids. soe Dictators like Yazid who dinked wine and controlled scholars and dictated them to what wrote in books and what not write.

@Ahmadi what are you saying?

4:07 AM

for example there were some scholars much more knowledgable then founders of 4 suunni Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafei, Hanbali) but they were not allowed to advertise their Fiqh and only these 4 were permitted by Abbasid Kings. because these 4 were compatible with what Kings liked.

if you need I can mention names of some those great sunni scholars who their Fiqh was banned by Abbasids.

@Ahmadi please do

some Sunni scholars like Abubakr Ahmad Bayhaghi had higher level than all of them but according to decisions in Abbasids only above schools were permitted to be advertised and taught.

@Ahmadi Isn't Bayhaghi the one with the book of Hadith?

I think. but the complete name of who you mean is needed.

possibly there be other bayhaghi

@Ahmadi ok

4:13 AM

this is not amazing

also abu Hanifa was imprisoned by King

@Ahmadi and I believe Ahmed was too

Imamat is the highest danger for King

Imamat means the King should leave the sit

and Imam should sit the Caliphet

:)

so which King allow this be in pillars of Islam?

there are 12 Imams of shia after prophet

and final of them is Mahdi

do you think if Caliph is told you should leave the sit to I sit what will reply the King?

you saw what Yazid replied to Imam Hussain S.A. the 3th Imam of shia

@Ahmadi I have to go now Salam wa alaikum talk to you tomorrow

4:16 AM

are you aware of Karbala story?

OK Salam

For tag synonyms, we have to consider nabi, rasul, prophet.

there is argument that nabi != rasul, so synonyming them is tricky.

6

Q: What is the difference between NABI and RASUL?

In English, we use the naming "prophet", but Quran has two different terms for naming these kind of special people, namely "rasul" and "nabi". What is the difference between "nabi" and "rasul"?

nabi rasul prophet meaning arabic

@goldPseudo Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

prophet could probably be synonymed to nabi, since that's the most common translation.

could possibly be synonymed to both, since i doubt there'd be many questions which actually want to know about rasul that don't want to know about nabi.

but then there's the question of which one to use as a primary.

(rasul is probably the more common)

so my vote would go toward rasul <- nabi, prophet

4:34 AM

@goldPseudo I learned that rasul is a subset of rasul

i assume one of those rasul was meant to be nabi.

(otherwise, you need a better teacher)

mathematically speaking, any object is a subset of itself :P

2

is it just me or have people gotten stingier with upvotes of late?

i think it's just that activity in general has died down a bit from the first couple of days.

Yeah I learned it from madrasa

i'm seeing lower view counts on a lot of posts too.

4:40 AM

oh ok that explains it then

i'm naturally stingy with upvotes, but that hasn't changed since we started.

@tachyons you learned set theory in madrasa?!

(joking, although that wouldn't be an unwelcome development)

I forget the exact number ,according to our madrasa textbook number of mursals is 3xx

300 +x

@Ansari i mean the concept only

askaquestionto.us/question-answer/prophets/…

What about questions on The Prophet (PBUH)? What tag should we use, and should it include PBUH within the tag, tag excerpt, or tag wiki?

4:55 AM

definitely not within the tag. tags are supposed to be short, cluttering them with honorifics just seems counterproductive.

The Messenger of Allah said, "May he be humiliated, the man in whose presence I am mentioned and he does not send Salah upon me; may he be humiliated, the man who sees the month of Ramadan come and go, and he is not forgiven; may he be humiliated, the man whose parents live to old age and they do not cause him to be granted admittance to Paradise."
—Abu Hurairah

Now, does this apply here? Are we 'mentioning' the Prophet (PBUH) by tagging him?

i personally don't think it does, but that's mostly because i don't interpret "send Salah upon me" as being the same as "write down a specific honorific". i see no reason you can't send Salah on him verbally, even if you're only writing his name.

especially if the alternative is just writing a shortcut like "PBUH" rather than the complete blessing.

@goldPseudo OK, so muhammad and rasul <- nabi, prophet?

i wouldn't link Muhammad to rasul, since there would probably be plenty of questions on the previous rusul that should be tagged distinctly.

@goldPseudo Yeah, I meant them as two separate things.

5:03 AM

okay, then yes i agree with what you said.

2 hours later…

6:34 AM

this question is not needed_

1

Q: List of tag synonyms and tags to be burninated or removed

We'll need to merge tags/clean up. In the answer below is a list of tags that need to be turned into synonyms. Concerning which tag should be made 'dominant', this answer says: The practice on similar sites (e.g. Judaism ) is to make the English word a synonym for the transliteration. In tha...

discussion tag tag-synonyms burninate

we already have this one -

3

Q: Removing some tags

Going through tags, I noticed there are some tags that don't make much sense. I think we should list them here so that we can avoid using them and they'll be automatically deleted. I'll post a community wiki answer and everyone can edit it to add and remove tags.

im CV the first one.

any has any argument against me?

7:07 AM

@Ashu That is more about removal (burninating?) of tags than making synonyms, although the two are related.

well we culd extend the original one to include synonyms.. also one part of your question is deleting tags, this part is alredy covered by the previous question

@Ashu It is covered, but I think this would be a bit more efficient.

The reason I created a new question was because my question would have had a different scope than the other question.

@muntoo you could add to the original question rather than starting a new one. It was CW anyway

The question itself was not CW; I couldn't change it without changing the question.

I agree with your sentiment that this should be more centralized, so I expanded my question's scope to encompass the removal of tags as well.

k it is a debatable topic. all that discussion was just my opinion. We will let the community decide.

is social-networking an appropriate tag? the question is

3

Q: Is social networking permitted by Islam?

Social networking is very easy form of making friends, groups, business, etc. The dark side is that you can find people flirting with each other, verbally abusing each other, etc. Some get addicted to it and lose touch with their personal lives. How does Islam permit and deny the outcomes of so...

social-networking

7:23 AM

No, I seriously doubt it will be used much.

Like, it seems like a one-use tag.

yeah, suggest a tag if it strikes you

law probably doesn't cover it... hmm.

What tags are relevant to 'permit' questions?

law, sin-or-not, and...?

sin-or-not is to be deleted

Guess we should tag it as law, since it's the closest.

or islamic-law?

7:28 AM

@Ashu We should probably keep sin-or-not, since it gives the intent clearer than sin.

i mean islamic-rules

@Ashu By law, I meant sharia.

yeah i know... i just gave a suggestion

when was citation-needed removed?

We'll keep the transliteration.

It was removed just today. :P

Lemme link you to the relevant comments...

4 hours ago, by goldPseudo

do we want to burninate citation-needed, or merge it into reference-request?

Basically, we decided source-identification was the appropriate tag.

Since citation-needed and reference-request are being used as meta-tags.

k

@muntoo how do you type like this?

7:34 AM

@Ashu You mean the tags? [tag:___].

Oh, the link?

Just copy and paste it on its own.

yeah how do u link comments?

Hover over a comment, and click the arrow on the left.

Then, permalink.

k thanks

the tags on this question are wrong too , arent they?

2

Q: Did the Prophet Muhammad (saws) use humor with those around him?

Are there any rules on joking in Islam? Are there any specific verses of the Qur'an or Hadiths regarding joking?

happiness humor

I think we could get rid of the humor.

Not sure what to do about the happiness...

Happiness isnt a tag either...we have to find something more general.

7:38 AM

We could also add in muhammad and sunnah.

Do you want to do it, or should I?

u do it

well i started a blog a few days back just comment how im i doing... any sugesstions for betterment? theislamictruth.tumblr.com

Isn't tumblr micro-blogging or something like that?

(I don't use tumblr.)

I think it's followable, but then I don't use tumblr/know about its philosophies/etc.

@muntoo yes it is. well at least u can give some suggestions

I can't really give suggestions on the content because it's what you personally believe is interesting, not what someone on the Internet tells you.

@muntoo well i dont want followers.. i just made that for my own reference. i keep on losing interesting links and articles so i started that.

7:49 AM

Yup, so you shouldn't listen to any suggestions I might give to you about it regarding the content. :)

4 hours later…

11:44 AM

Close as dupe please...

-1

Q: what should be done with bank account interests to avoid riba?

If you have an account in a bank that automatically puts an interest rate on it , how can someone in this case avoid being in Riba ? Is giving it as Sadaqa allowed ?

@Dynamic done

12:03 PM

@Ershad Thanks!

12:59 PM

@Ershad vote to delete instead of vote to close on that one

Nvm, it has already been deleted :)

1 hour later…

2:05 PM

We need to start being more mean and down-voting easy questions.

Really, the entire site may fall into jeopardy because it's just beginners asking beginner questions. Experts will scoff and walk away.

Don't hate me peeps, I just want expert questions instead of beginner questions. It's DV now vs. potentially failing to hit public beta later :/

@ashes999 No one stops you from DVing the posts you feel is not up to par. :)

@ashes999 Go ahead!

0

Q: Please Down-Vote Beginner Questions

Possible dupe of: Question quality Dear Islam.SE users: we are deluged with low-quality beginner questions. By "beginner" questions, I mean questions that, if you spent less than five minutes searching even Google, you would find the answer. Seriously. Islam.SE and all SE sites are expert Q&...

@PowerInside I am only one person. I cannot single-handedly turn the tide of an entire SE site.

Especially when the majority of people upvote easy, basic questions.

the irony will be when people down-vote my meta :)

@ashes999 Little drops of water make a mighty ocean. As always, you can discuss the low quality questions you consider that is not "expert" enough and we can all act on it asap.

on here

Already doing that.

And already down-voting.

And Ansari posted something similar in Meta already.

It's not enough.

But as we say, "tawakkaltu 'ala Allah." I have put my full trust and faith in Allah; I'm already doing everything I can to turn the tide. If it fails, it fails.

IMO, I don't think this site strictly needs a lot of "expert and well researched" ones. A good balance of both might be good enough for us to qualify

2:18 PM

Well, you may be right. But a lukewarm site attracts lukewarm participants.

We want a strong, solid site, if we can.

@ashes999 Ah, I see your point. As implied from what you and @goldPseudo said, I think we need a pretty strong foundation for the private beta stage.

Yeah @PowerInside, I think we all agree to the same thing -- but the voting patterns are definitely not encouraging expert questions.

@PowerInside are you willing to put your rep on the line to try and save the site and reshape it into an expert forum?

@ashes999 Why not! I am just not used to much DV-ing. I don't really mind the reps. :) Maybe you can post a few ones here and we can work on it right away

Awesome, may Allah reward you with khayr in the hereafter (ameen).

What I do this stick to this page, and refresh whenever I get a chance: islam.stackexchange.com/questions

@ashes999 Same to you to brother, Ameen. :)

2:25 PM

:)

this keeps the newest questions on top; it's easy to check if you see something new pop up.

I also went through the last 5-6 newest and added DVs where needed; lets see what happens. (DVing works best before any/many answers appear, because people take it more seriously)

@ashes999 Ah, I used to use this tool : islam.stackexchange.com/review

Ah, but you actually KNOW how SE sites work lol :P

@ashes999 I'm in love with the SE sites.. :) Just not really been into all these until I discovered Islam on the network here.

Nice. I'll stick to newest questions though, the existing questions are already pretty much taken care of.

@ashes999 Agreed, and keeping a patrol here.

2:28 PM

/me nods

Now, we are two :)

(seerah joke)

haha

islam.stackexchange.com/questions/625/… Was this question too "direct"? Frankly, I tried to google myself to this, but I didn't get much. Its a question that I face personally; I don't really mind if you DV it.

islam.stackexchange.com/questions/626/… @ashes999 would you classify this as being quite simple?

assalaamu 'alaykum

Wa alaikumusalam @goldPseudo !

2:43 PM

Wa'alikum as-salaam @goldPseudo

@PowerInside I don't know. It seems borderline, so I didn't vote.

Actually, +1 -- if you can't understand after 6-12 months of Arabic classes, it's not a beginner question :)

assalamu alaykkum

i still think beginner questions have a place on the site. so long as it's still good enough to warrant an expert answer.

no matter what we do, i suspect that the beginner questions will be the meat and potatoes on the site. so we just have to make sure we get the right beginner questions.

@goldPseudo and if we get shut down for having all beginner questions?

@Ershad wa'alikum as-salaam wa rahmatullah!

we don't want all beginner questions, obviously.

I don't think we want any. Think about SO; if you ask "hey guyz, how do I make an int in Java" you will be stoned, hanged, drowned, hanged, and then down-voted.

2:49 PM

210

Q: How do I move the turtle in LOGO?

How do I move the turtle in LOGO?

looks like all the comments were removed. it was an enlightening conversation back when it was posted.

2011. Bad example for modern-day SO.

I even had someone tell me "Excuse me? How dare you quote old questions. That's not a good fit any more to the site." when I dared to cite an example of an old question (older than 1 year).

i think the fact that the question was championed by Joel himself gives it weight, even if it's not a good example of a modern SO question.

As my logical-proofs teacher used to say, "Proof by example is insufficient." :)

have you read blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/02/are-some-questions-too-simple yet? i know i've linked it any number of times already, but i honestly have no memory of who to.

Asalamu wa alaikum

2:54 PM

wa'alikum as-salaam @AlUmmat

wa 'alaykum assalaam

it looks like this question might turn into our first "open/close" war.

3

Q: Is using pirated software allowed?

Possible Duplicate: Where does Islam stand in Internet Piracy? Is using pirated software allowed? Please answer with clear evidence supporting your view. Note that I'm not asking about whether software piracy itself is sinful. My question is regarding the actual using of software tha...

haram halal softwares

awesome, we have enough people with strong opinions to open/close war.

to be fair, most of the close votes were before the question was edited.

it was much more "duplicate" in it's original form.

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