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1:53 AM
hey!
 
hey!
 
haven't been in here in a while - how are things?
 
they seem to be well
 
f''
0
A: Puzzling's new favicon is too similar to Workplace's favicon

Jon EricsonShort answer We aren't going to change the logo. While the shapes are similar at a glance, the treatment and visual identity are completely different. As the number of site designs increase, it will be impossible to avoid logo collisions. Long answer Our designers strive to create designs th...

cool, they're completely ignoring the consensus on both sites and elsewhere
 
2:10 AM
"We made a decision and you don't matter."
That's how it reads, to me.
 
yep! me too
they didn't listen to us for anything
not a single one of our suggestions was used
 
yo deusovi
 
hey q_a! what's up?
 
And quite frankly as soon as I read: "The short answer. It's not going to change." I decided that the "developers" of this site have absolutely no interest in anything that their users have to say, on anything, and have decided that they are the penultimate rulers, and deciders, of all facets.
5
 
not much, watching videos of people playing dark souls because I don't have the patience to play it myself
 
2:13 AM
yeah KK, I'm honestly getting tired of SE because the higher-ups don't really care at all about us
who knows, maybe it's a temporary thing
 
...same
 
tbh that was something that kind of turned me off to SE almost immediately. just reading around on meta about various things, it seemed like every time there was an unpopular move made by administration (or whatever you want to call them) they were just adamant in not listening to user response and/or uninterested in transparency
 
there was the issue with Shog9 doing the text equivalent of plugging his ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU", and now there's this, where we basically get flipped off
 
Yeah, him openly stating his extreme, and utter, disdain for this site and how much of an insult it is, to him, that it's an SE site, was huge to me.
 
when I say "almost immediately", I mean "before I realized that Puzzling exists"
 
2:16 AM
Puzzling was my first SE site
 
I browsed SO for years, but never signed up til a few months ago, then found Puzzling and stayed here.
 
as much as I have issues with the way certain things happen here, a) it's a lot better, I think, than macro-SE, and b) the issues I do have here are largely with policy that comes from being an SE site
 
what did we gain by "graduating"?
 
jack shit
we LOST some things though
mainly the privileges from beta rep caps
 
Well - we didn't get migrate features - we lost tons of privileges...
We got a new design, that's making the rest of SE hate us....
...offhand.
 
2:18 AM
i miss seeing deleted posts
 
the migrate thing is absolutely strange to me. I understand it on some level (don't let Just Anybody decide to migrate something to a site they don't have familiarity with) but... also I don't understand it
 
i was hoping for a mod election so we could get rid of some of the mods who never use this site but we have no idea when that's gonna happen
 
plus, since we've graduated, we're hardly Just Anybody
 
manshu misses the old, generic icon
 
i didn't really like the generic icon, but not a fan of this one either
this one's marginally better
 
2:19 AM
this one's way cooler! but for puzzling?
 
yeah
it looks WAY too similar to Workplace and doesn't have either of the features that were mentioned in the design draft
can anyone else see the lock immediately? no? me neither
also it's not even an impossible figure
 
personal opinion is that an icon shouldn't need to be explained to be understood
cool explanation though
 
I'll be honest - I don't mind the fact that it's similar to the workplace icon, but a) I don't use Workplace (except when there's a Hot Network Post there of someone asking a question like "Is It Legal For My Boss To Threaten My Life Because I Borrowed His Chair While He Was On Vacation?") and b) I don't think a lot of the site icons look "intuitive" necessarily
 
yeah - i understand why some need to be explained (eg workplace, ELL) since there's no real way to make them very concrete
but puzzling is easy to make recognizable in several different ways
question mark, puzzle piece, actual impossible figure
 
2:21 AM
we got none of those. we just got a workplace ripoff with a chunk taken out
 
but one of the goals was to help bring our community itself together .... seems to be working already
 
true... we're coming together against the SE overlords
 
yeah I gotta say
haha
 
!!!
 
that is one thing that has happened
 
2:22 AM
hah, that "not gonna change it" post is at +4/-6
 
naw, think we got the message.
did we at least gain compelling advertising on the side bar?
 
nah
 
i haven't felt compelled to impulse buy since joining this SE
 
maybe i should change my "message to SE staff" puzzle to say "FUCK YOU" instead of "THANK YOU" :P
 
I feel like a mild asshole saying this but there's part of me that's glad all this clusterfuck stuff happened
 
2:24 AM
who's panglossian now?!
 
because I think it's bringing to light some of the obnoxious SE behaviors
 
q_a, we already know you're an asshole, don't worry about that :P (no offense meant, of course)
 
like, I think there was stuff that a lot of people would have put up with otherwise, that they're seeing a different side of now
ha! none taken!
 
(by the way, Deusovi, THANK YOU for saying what you just said about changing your message)
 
well, it wasn't really happening on Puzzling
 
2:25 AM
yeah
 
and now that we're graduating it's happening in several places at once
 
I think some of the attitudes trickled down a little
 
??? some of the attitudes?
 
but this sends a clearer message of like "this is where that behavior can go"
 
hm? what do you mean by that?
 
2:26 AM
well, for example, the attitude of cleaving too tightly to "this is just how SE sites work"
 
(also by the way, Deusovi, not trying to encourage you to say FUCK YOU to them, just enjoying the thought)
 
part of that's inescapable - for instance, the Q&A format prohibiting long discussions
 
I think that was something that people here were OK with until they realized there are cases to be made for operating (at least a little) differently
right
 
(yeah humn, wasn't actually planning on it)
 
the long discussions topic is almost an excuse to bring up something i wanted to bring up..
 
2:27 AM
hm?
 
about using chat rooms as sandbox test sites for puzzles
there have been Meta Qs about testing puzzles before posting them
 
I can't stress this enough: I wish there was some cordoned-off part of the site that people could use for puzzle creation
 
and just today i realized that chat rooms like this one work for trial ballooning
 
yeah
 
I mean, if we're convinced that we have issues with puzzle quality, it seems like the logical thing would be to encourage people to workshop their puzzles
 
2:29 AM
oh, q_a, there are web sites with ad hoc private-if-you-dont-know-about-them chat rooms
 
right, but SE's model doesn't let us do anything private
without doing a cryptographic key exchange or something
 
but I'm not thrilled about having to go offsite
and yeah
 
just for puzzle creation collaboriation is what i was thinking
 
that's another thing
 
2:30 AM
(or y'know, just using email addresses like a boring person)
 
specifically wrt SE-in-general
many, many times people have asked for some kind of private something, whether it was messaging or chat or whatever
 
right, i'd love it if you could do private messages
(with obvious blocking/reporting functionality)
 
and dev/admin types were like "no, it'll turn us into a social network" which: what
 
YEAH
 
still not sure if one of the ideas you gave me in a chat, q_a, wasn't observed by someone who answered the puzzle
 
2:31 AM
and people had to point out that, look, the reason you keep 'having to' turn these requests down is that it's what your users actually want
@humn right, that sort of thing kind of sucks
 
can we get beta status back?
 
i wish
 
(and yeah, absolutely, we'd have to implement some kind of block/report functionality for any kind of private communication)
 
honestly, the main reason i've stayed is because of people like Alconja and Bmyguest
 
i feel lucky to have found this place at all, don't feel owed anything
 
2:33 AM
I don't think I would have stuck around, personally, if it wasn't for the chat
 
but still feel disappointed by some things
 
I'm being 100% sincere and not at all maudlin about that
 
i feel like i'm owed at least a bit of respect
 
but like, I can find another website to read if I just want something to put in front of my eyes. I can find other puzzles to do
but I enjoy interacting with people
 
yeah, talking to you all about puzzly things is nice
 
2:34 AM
it improves the puzzle-solving experience 10000%
 
!
 
otherwise it just feels lonely and cutthroat, everybody fighting for who posts the most satisfying answer first
 
yeah, i know what you mean
 
(there's still an element of that, since not everybody is in chat, but yeah)
 
the steel-case exterior for Q/A works okay as long as it is tempered by this kind of back-and-forth
 
2:35 AM
i've considered setting up a Slack and subreddit (or tumblr, or some other place where we can post) for Puzzling.SE users and then just moving there
 
almost afraid to be tempted
 
in a way, it might actually be nice to be somewhere outside of a 'system'
I mean I guess on reddit there are still votes and things
 
yeah, reddit would have votes but no rep scores
 
right
 
it could be a good and a bad thing in that sense
i like a lot of the SE model - badges, privileges being unlocked with small amounts of rep, nice tagging system
being able to edit others' posts...
 
2:37 AM
I think SE is great, mechanically, in a lot of ways
 
a lot has been figured out well here over time
 
but honestly the higher-ups don't really give a shit about us
 
it does stuff that other websites seem like they should be able to do but don't
just by default
and that's cool. but. I also could do without a lot of the hangups
 
and, in our case, i wouldn't want to see puzzles get smothered in blog-like comments
 
right
we'd need active mods for whatever system we used
 
2:39 AM
i like to get smothered by commentary in rooms like this
 
we talk about stuff getting voted up too much - but when the system is "here's stuff to vote on. you get to use votes. your brain sees a vote thing and wants to push a button. but! voting down hurts you", well, stuff is going to get upvoted that shouldn't
 
exactly
hey @f''!
 
I admit I do that
 
we're complaining again!
 
I find it hard to look at questions/answers and not push a voting button
 
2:40 AM
i downvote a LOT
 
so unless an answer is like, actively bad, I probably vote it up
 
possibly even more than i upvote
 
you also have a sizeable chunk of rep
 
true, but i'd still probably do it as long as i wasn't too close to any rep limits
 
yeah, I get you
but I think I'm not alone in holding back from downvoting because of the rep hit
(I do downvote bad questions, though. Well, the ones that I judge to be bad, anyway)
 
2:41 AM
it's 1 rep
(or 2? i don't remember)
i mean i see why you wouldn't though
 
right
I'm just saying, 1 vs. 0 is a big difference
I can do something that costs me 0 infinity more times than I can do something that costs me 1
 
true
 
and, you know, I'm sure that it was made that way to prevent people from going on downvoting sprees
or, at least, to dissuade them
 
yeah, that's one of the things i don't like about the SE system
 
i'm less interested in a tallies of votes than in circles of interest
i can tell that many of my favorite puzzles are probably visited by the same 6 people
and wonder if they know of oldies and forgotten puzzles
been dumpster diving myself for a while
don't care if a puzzle's already been solved
.........
 
2:47 AM
i feel kinda jaded towards SE tbh
 
so what i was going to ask for feedback on is
 
hm?
 
whether to try out a puzzle in this room or sphinx's lair
 
sphinx's lair isn't really active
 
right, this room has pretty much taken over
i did try a puzzle her a couple of days ago but it got ignored
 
2:49 AM
oh?
 
hm? i haven't been active here for a few days
 
rather it got lost behind a wave of real puzzle activity
in sphinx's lair a trial puzzle would be more noticeable for longer, like a semi-post
 
100 emoji that meta answer is at -3 now 100 emoji
 
f''
or make a new chat room for puzzle testing?
 
yeah, it's at +4/-7
 
2:51 AM
yeah, f'' that's the kind of feedback i'm wondering about!
5
Q: How about a private sandbox?

ghosts_in_the_codeUpdate: @Doorknob made some important points and I agree with him. There need not be a limit on the number of users per box. Also, the criterion for helping new users doesn't necessarily have to be 4k rep. It could be a lower rep threshold or something like time spent on the site. There have b...

don't think anyone mentioned using a chat room for a sandbox
 
that's really the closest we can come, isn't it?
oh crud, it's roughly my bedtime
 
about +4/-7, i'm going to enjoy watching that for a while!
but the overlords surely are used to and expect this kind of reception
 
who knows, maybe they'll actually change it if it goes down far enough
it's not likely, but it's possible
 
oops, someone did mention a chat room in that sandbox post
probably technically too difficult to change an icon.. i hear it could have as many as 256 bits to wrestle down
 
yeah, that's why they never change icons when sites graduate
 
2:57 AM
must be
need it be said? the thing about icons naturally resembling each other??
notice that much yet at SE?
i keep confusing Physics SE and Sombrero SE
2
oh, goodnight, q_a, we can test chatbot another time if you're interested
 
yes please, good night
 
night q_a!
 
lingering question for you, Deusovi, how did you figure out the Frank Zappa riddle? remember it?
 
no, i don't - hold on
oh!
 
4
Q: Riddle from Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention

humnAs posed by Frank Zappa and Don Pardo on “Saturday Night Live” in 1976: “I am gross and perverted I'm obsessed and deranged I have existed for years But very little has changed I'm the tool of the government And industry too For I am destined to rule And regulate you “I might be vile and...

 
3:02 AM
it wasn't really hard to figure out tbh
 
people here amaze me
 
"thing that you listen to and look at, has content that is considered garbage, used by government and industry"
that couldn't really be anything else tbh
 
could be a lot of things but you zeroed in
maybe you and Zappa think alike
 
i'm not sure if that's a compliment or an insult
 
coming from me a compliment
coming from someone else, right, ....
 
3:04 AM
but can you think of anything else used by government and industry that you look at and listen to, that also has "vile and pernicious" content?
 
this was before cspan
the song was, not the post i guess
(that was kinda a joke, don't have much against cspan)
newsreels were used by government
 
it has to be a form of media ("stuff that i say", not a person because it's a "tool of the government"), and the only forms of media of those that you both look at and listen to are tv and movies
tv seemed more likely than movies to me
 
7
Q: Vixens and Fowls

kamenfI woke up thinking about yesterday's message. While drinking my coffee and the TV buzzed with the morning news, I kept trying to figure it out: "All codes - compromised - don't use! I have sent information through two independent channels, hope you'll get it at least on one. Emily Stone. PS: ...

 
good thinking, still impressed
 
I'm too tired to continue so I threw up a partial if anyone is interested in carrying on.
 
3:07 AM
ooh, nice! i think i know it then
probably a bacon cipher
 
i swear, this chat room works much better for noticing interesting puzzles than the [questions] search
 
You're probably right, I'll give it a shot
 
yep, bacon cipher
J O E A N D J A N E A R E D O U B L E A G E N T S
i'll let you finish it off since you got the main gimmick
 
Thanks.
 
fowl are A, vixens are B
 
3:14 AM
think i'll go dump that trial puzzle on sphinx's lair, it started as a joke
thanks for the feeback, see you later!
 
Another one bites the dust... Time to go to bed on a high note.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:02 AM
------> as seen at Puzzling Meta, question_asker comments on an answer about "question-asker":
2
A: Could we get 'answer edited' notifications?

WBTUntil there's a better answer, the best workaround is to @mention the question-asker's name in a comment manually posted on an answer when edited.

One thing to note is that, while you're not notified per se, the question does get bumped back to the top of the main page whenever anything is edited. — question_asker 13 hours ago
 
6:24 AM
^^^^ yes, that's question_asker's name on question_asker's comment manually posted on an answer about "question-asker's name in a comment manually posted on an answer"
 
 
1 hour later…
7:30 AM
The iron-E.
 
7:44 AM
Oh the chat search is working now.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:18 AM
:D
 
1
Q: Which farmer gets to market first?

Brent Hackers Two farmers of similar size and build, one with a new red card full of potatoes and onions, and one with an old red cart full of onions and potatoes, leave their farm on the first day of April every year. The journey takes eight days with good weather and as many as fifteen days with bad ...

I'm pretty sure it is something like "It's raining on the new car"
 
First day of April on Every year + lateral thinking ...
 
But I don't know any quotes/proverb about that
 
Whoa, RiddleNewComer goes effectively ham on the LT part.
 
I hate when people ask a thousands of clarifications on lateral thinking questions, that kills the fun
 
10:23 AM
I'm trying to build a different mini puzzle for each clue of an upcoming "what is it" riddle.
I got all the clues, and 2 mini puzzles down.
 
10:58 AM
riddles and LT puzzles are seems to be raining today.
But not all of them are good.
 
How about visual puzzles that aren't rebus ?
 
Great!!
 
Because I'm trying to make one.
 
Nice. :)
 
KoA
11:13 AM
Now that I'm feeling good enough to be suggesting edits, I think I'm good enough to get back to work on Enchanted Caves 2
 
Micro riddle : I'm a poor cavefish, what am I ?
 
@KoA I was like, "Wow, there's a second one? Where?", and then I realized what you meant.
 
Another short and easy riddle. :(
 
the answer is simple (not "simple" but bear with me)
poor = cash-less.
remove "c a s h" in "cavefish" and you're left with "vefi" which can be rearranged into "five"
because five is a source of inspiration for me :D
 
KoA
@LeppyR64 It's in the making, gonna finish tonight I reckon :p
 
11:20 AM
@Anton Bravo. Teach me more
 
also : when I'm high, I'm noisy, and people are cheerful.
 
It's just a coincidence
 
high-five !
are you laughing yet ? :F
 
I can't laugh right now. I am watching Saw 4.
 
oh :/
What I know for sure is that Saw 6 is a real butcher's.
 
11:28 AM
Did you know somehow that I don't have Saw 6.
I have part 1 to 7 except 6
 
I did not know that at all.
 
Don't try to puzzle me.
 
But I know that Saw 6 in french is pronounced "saucisse" (sausage) :))
 
hahah
 
hence the mention of a butcher's
(a litteral translation of a french expression may not be the best thing)
 
11:30 AM
No spoilers please.
 
btw I haven't seen any Saw movie, it's just because of that funny pronounciation.
 
just because of that french pronunciation.
whoa..
I take my words back
not a great movie but entertaining.
 
KoA
I just made myself some lemon green tea and it's like
great
so much better than the low quality black tea I had earlier
 
You just reminded me that I am feeling thirsty.
 
11:52 AM
5 PSE questions on HNQ right now.
 
12:08 PM
man
I am not fond of the accepted answer on the sherlock question :) :) :) :)
I think it's very bad ;) :P :O
 
:D
whoa..that answer got a downvote. It's rare
 
hopefully someone else sees it because No Fucking Way can I possibly be the only person who thinks it sucks :D :S XD ;)
 
:D
 
>Though not explicitly stated, we can deduce that

this part is particular... (damnit quotes not working the same)
 
12:22 PM
I would have chosen the suicide answer
 
hence my comment on it
it's not an answer to a puzzle, it's fanfiction of a puzzle
 
It kinda looks like the way how sherlock would solve stuff, isn't it ?
 
I gave him some advice.
The answer having better valid points, less assumptions and most interesting would have been my personal choice. — manshu 7 hours ago
 
>the cook was a spy (possibly Pakistani)
ahah what !!
 
I mean
here's the thing: the accepted answer could totally make sense.
the problem is, there's not enough information in the puzzle to justify it
 
12:25 PM
Yes. The answer have lot of assumptions.
 
there's nothing in the accepted answer that is disqualified or disallowed by the original question
but
 
I could have said that she didn't told Sherlock about her another marriage.
 
it's... it's not an answer that can be deduced with any certainty from the puzzle
yeah
like you guys mention, it introduces a lot of new information, makes new assumptions
 
And it is well known that Sherlock do not work on assumptions.
 
it's no more reasonable an answer than "he took a special government heart-attack pill because he realized his identity had been compromised when he saw an enemy spy at the restaurant"
we could make up a million equally valid answers
 
12:28 PM
a million Sherlock fanfics? I love it.
 
haha
I've never seen sherlock
in fact
 
If it was lateral thinking, this would have been a genuine answer.
 
I'm not sure I've even ever seen a sherlock holmes story of any kind
 
Because heck, this is a really crazy answer to begin with !
 
@Anton It was lateral thinking in a way.
 
12:30 PM
I mean
even if it was a lateral thinking question, I'd still have issues with this answer
 
Let me find a Sherlock clip for you q_a
 
just because it introduces so many new aspects to the scenario
 
the only part of the answer that I thought did any good logical deduction from the question was the bit about the india-pakistan wars and africa
and figuring out that it had to take place in a certain time period. that was good work. the rest was... I dunno. eh.
 
dammit...he doesn't tell watson how did he deduced it.
 
12:57 PM
@question_asker Complete fiction...sigh
 
like
if this was a sherlock holmes story, then fine
but it's not, it's a puzzle
 
One of the few times I've felt the need to downvote both the question AND the answer.
 

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