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8:00 PM
apparently it uses ARM
 
@ZachHauk I eat a lot and I'm underweight so the $2$ things are not necessarily related...
 
which i'm not too familiar with
@AlessandroCodenotti I don't eat lunch or breakfast that often
 
That's bad, @Zach.
 
that's a very bad habit
 
And I bet @Alessandro eats yummy food, too ...
 
8:02 PM
i guess
 
I can't complain
 
loves Italian food (and I cook a lot of it)
 
i like some pasta
 
@TedShifrin So do I :P
 
like penne vodka
 
8:04 PM
@Alessandro: OK, we'll collaborate sometime~!
Good, @Zach. So learn to cook it and cook it for yourself!
 
lol, sure
 
I wish I had time to cook
 
LOL i can make the keyboard light up red white and blue and wave around like a flag
 
Sounds useful, @Zach.
 
8:06 PM
Sounds sarcastic, @Ted.
 
@Astyx: I cooked for myself even in college (except for the first year).
 
@Astyx yeah, except it's mechanical
 
Mayhaps @Zach.
 
Maybe + Perhaps = Mayhaps
 
Well I'll cook for myself when I'll be in college :p
 
8:07 PM
Perhaps + Maybe = Perbe
The uncertainty group of order 2 is not commutative!
 
I can't keep track of who's where in their academic life, @Astyx.
 
(except all groups of order 2 are, but ignore that)
 
@Zach: It's not a group.
 
actually
 
Oh don't worry I don't expect you to
 
8:08 PM
what if
 
Semigroup, maybe. I dare you to give me the inverse of a (part) word.
 
hmm
 
My guess is the main things you know about me are that I'm French and annoying
 
Mayhaps = Perbe$^{-1}$?
 
@Astyx: When I was in high school, I cooked a lot for my family. I was often the main cook.
I don't think it works, @Zach.
 
8:09 PM
hush
 
LOL, and sickly @Astyx. :D
 
:[
@Astyx don't forget purple
 
From time to time, true
Haha @Zach
Anyways gotta go now, have a nice day !
 
seriously, why is this software so awful
 
À bientôt @Astyx.
Maybe it's incompatible with your OS, @Zach.
 
8:12 PM
Au Revoir /s
Nah, i'm on windows 10 right now
 
Pfeh :P
 
i use linux when im doing STEM stuff
right now im being a lazy asshole and playing games
 
Ah.
No comment.
 
enough said about that
 
Well, I need to go ... meeting friends for lunch. See ya later!
 
8:13 PM
;]
have a nice lunch
 
@Astyx yea i've concluded that it's still commutative
in the way I meant it
 
o/
 
i find it upsetting that you have to worry about the media being wrong these days
@Akiva my parents said maybe next year
 
8:28 PM
:(
Well, see you then maybe
 
:P
what airport did you go to, by the way?
if you dont mind me asking
 
Hi guys, I have one more question
let $\sigma_\phi$ be a reflection/mirrror about a line that makes an angle $\phi$ with the x-axis
and let $\rho_\psi$ be a rotation about the origin with angle $\psi$
Could someone explain to me why $\sigma_\phi \circ \sigma_\psi=\rho_{2(\phi-\psi)}$
I know the matrices that represent $\sigma_\phi$ and $\rho_\psi$
And I understand them geometrically
but I don't know how to show this equality, or at least make it intuitively clear to me
 
8:46 PM
well
do you agree that $\sigma_\phi =\sigma_0 \circ \rho_\phi$?
actualy, let me check that fact
hmm
no, but it's probably something along the lines of the fact that
2 reflections does not affect the figure except in rotation
if you know the matrices then it shouldn't be hard to just multiply them together and find that it's true
 
yea i dunno i'll ask on the forum
 
do you know how to do the matrices?
if not i'll just help you right here.
 
i don't want to do it with matrices
i want it more geometrically
 
oh, i got it
@Sha I realize why, but it's euclidean geometry
let me draw you a figure
 
i gotta go now:/
i'm at school
 
8:53 PM
oh :/
 
and it's closing XD
but if you make the drawing
i'll look at it in 30 min
 
I love algebraic geometry!
 
alright :P
@MathWanderer cool me too
 
i'll post the question too btw
if someone else responds as well
but i'll be back later then
 
9:08 PM
I'm a bit confused by this definition. We have a family $G_\alpha, \alpha<\omega_1$ of sets and define $H_\alpha=\bigcup\limits_{\beta\le\alpha} G_\beta$ and $K_\alpha=H_\alpha\setminus(\bigcup\limits_{\beta<\alpha} H_\beta)$, I'm having trouble parsing the definition of $K_\alpha$, what exactly is in it?
 
the stuff in $H_\alpha$ not in any of the $H_\beta$'s before it
 
the new shit
:D
 
If $\alpha$ is a successor isn't $K_\alpha$ just $G_\alpha$?
 
Maybe the sets overlap
 
@Danu heh, I was considering linking him to manson for a second there
 
9:12 PM
If the $G_\alpha$ are disjoint things are simpler
@arctictern A true mathematician
 
Aha, so $K_\alpha$ is "stuff that is $H_\alpha$ but not in smaller $H_\beta$", but isn't this "stuff which is in $G_\alpha$ but not in smaller $G_\beta$?
 
yes (except you can't say "smaller $G_\beta$," you have to say "previous $G_\beta$")
 
what do you all think of this song youtube.com/watch?v=NYFhWBCfoX0 [nsfw]
 
I think that's right if there's only a single chain---can it be wrong if there are more chains?
 
you mean a differently ordered index set?
 
9:15 PM
Yeah---I'm sorry I don't know the terminology of this stuff but I mean if not all of them are ordered in one sequence
But if it's one family then it's implied that they are I guess
I'm not sure if it even matters anyways
 
Hm, ok, so I guess they introduced the $H_\alpha$ here because they're needed later in the proof, not because they're actually needed to define the $K_\alpha$
 
saying $\alpha<\omega_1$ where $\omega_1$ is that one ordinal implies these are all ordinals
 
They're indexed by ordinals @Danu
 
Okay, I'll bow out.
I don't really know what ordinals are, to be honest
 
@ZachHauk meh
 
9:17 PM
(remnant of not having a BSc. in math)
 
@arctic what is your profile pic even of?
 
Ordinals are cool
 
Tenacious D is mediocre at best, to me.
 
Hi @Akiva
 
9:17 PM
@Danu well-ordered set - meaning every subset has a minimum. you can label more and more of its elements starting with the minimum, call it 0, then you get 1,2,3..., then you get omega, omega+1, etc.
 
i think i have a wrist injury
:/
 
I'm trying to understand this proof that is much more set theoretical that I'm used to @Akiva
 
@ZachHauk motoko kusanagi
wait wrong profile
 
What are you proving, if I may ask?
 
this one is Guy from Two Guys and Guy
 
9:18 PM
You know, I've found linear algebra to be quite useful for dimensional analysis via a representation of derived units as 7-dimensional vectors, where the basis vectors are the SI base units and each magnitude represents the exponent of that unit
 
@AkivaWeinberger We were helping Ale understand a definition.
@LegionMammal978 Yeah, that's one funny application.
 
SEE
 
"Ale"? @AlessandroCodenotti
 
Danu said Ale!
 
?
It's a pretty common abbreviation, at least among the Italian "Alessandro"'s I know.
 
9:20 PM
@Danu For instance, I once derived all the Planck units from the 5 variables used for them; it's really just a change of basis
 
Turns out of A is a 2x2 octonionic matrix then A(AA)=(AA)A where A={{a,b},{c,d}} (wolfram notation) iff either a,d are in a complex subalgebra of O or a,b,c,d are in a quaternionic subalgebra of O. Will try my hand at various generalizations.
 
Alessandro recently mentioned that nobody has ever called him Ale @Danu
 
@AkivaWeinberger The Erdös-Sierpinski Duality Theorem. That is "Assuming CH there exist a bijection $f:\Bbb R\to\Bbb R$ such that $f=f^{-1}$ and $f(A)$ is a nullset iff $A$ is meager"
 
(This was in response to Zach calling him Ale)
I completely forgot what meager is
Also, whoah, that's cool
 
an involution swapping nullsets and meager sets
hmm
 
9:22 PM
We also would have $f(A)$ is meager iff $A$ is a nullset, yeah?
 
yes
replace A with f(A)
 
Or in english "let $P$ be a proposition involving solely the notions of measure zero, meager and notions of pure set theory, let $P^*$ the proposition obtained from $P$ by exchanging the terms "nullset" and "meager set" whenever they appear, then assuming CH $P\implies P^*$ and $P^*\implies P$"
 
^that's funny
 
So this is a duality theorem kinda
 
9:24 PM
Like in projective geometry where you can swap points with lines
 
Are there still people working on foundational set theory questions much?
 
@Akiva finally said something i understand
 
I have no idea what set theorists are doing nowadays
 
I still have no idea what "meager" is
"Nullset" (aka "measure zero") I remember
 
nullset is a Lebesgue measure 0 set
meager or first category is a countable union of nowhere dense sets
 
9:25 PM
Did 3Blue1Brown have a video on how $\Bbb Q$ is a nullset? I think he did
 
(of course you talk about meager sets in any topological space, but here I'm dealing with just $\Bbb R$)
 
@Akiva what were you studying at my age
 
at your age I was studying pokémon and magic cards, plus dragonball on tv maybe, I don't remember exactly
The funny thing is that you can have meager sets of positive measure (fat Cantor sets) and comeager null sets
 
@ZachHauk Don't remember, to be honest
 
9:30 PM
($A$ is comeager in $X$ if $X\setminus A$ is meager)
 
Yeah — "null" and "meager" are both meant to capture the idea of a set (a subset of $\Bbb R$) being "small". $\Bbb R$ itself is "large", so it's neither of those things.
The surprising thing is that $\Bbb R$ can be written as the union of a meager set and a null set.
That is, it's the union of two sets that we wanted to call "small". That's counterintuitive. @ZachHauk
 
What should I study after group theory? Something like galois theory? or ring theory?
 
(Countable union of null sets is null; countable union of meager sets is meager)
 
yeah, null sets and meager sets are both $\sigma$-ideals of subsets of $\Bbb R$
 
why was i just "bing"'d
hah, i guess they made the ping noise sound like an actual ping sound
@Akiva why did you @ me?
also my wrist is starting to hurt more
 
9:37 PM
I was trying to explain the stuff without using terms you don't know
 
oh :P
@AkivaWeinberger i assume null set
since you said measure 0
well, for example, no open set is a null set?
because they all have measure, right?
 
and the rationals are a null set? idk
they seem pretty non-continuous-y
 
Yeah. But the irrationals aren't. It's weird.
 
i haven't studied much topology
tbh i forget most of it
not related
just put that out there
because i'm not that mathematically educated lol
i have to read all this projective geometry stuff
then, i'll work on algebra
 
9:43 PM
Look at the video I linked to above, it's cool
 
the measure theory and music one?
i've watched it
 
i saw your youtube on the topology video
like, the inscribed rectangle one
anyways
im off to have dinner
bye
 
buon appetito @Zach
 
10:10 PM
Hi @Mike
@Mike Let F be a codim 1 foliation with only compact leaves. Is there an easy way to prove the leaf space is Hausdorff?
 
10:24 PM
I think I just managed to fully formalize $0_{\Bbb Z}$ (i.e., the integer $0\in\Bbb Z$):
$\forall a((a\in0_{\Bbb Z})\leftrightarrow(\forall b((b\in a)\leftrightarrow(\forall c((c\in b)\leftrightarrow(\forall d((c\in d)\leftrightarrow((\exists e((e\in d)\land(\forall f(\lnot(f\in e)))))\land(\forall e((e\in d)\rightarrow(\forall f((\forall g((g\in f)\leftrightarrow((g\in e)\lor(\forall h((h\in e)\leftrightarrow(h\in g))))))\rightarrow(f\in d)))))))))))))$
Shorter version: $0_{\Bbb Z}=\{\{\{a\}\}|a\in\Bbb N\}$
I wonder if my longer expression can be simplified any further
 
@PVAL Reeb stability says that locally you're a foliated neighborhood of your leaf. If you do this and all the leaves are compact then the holonomy homomorphism must have had image in Z/2, and so your foliation is either locally trivial or locally an I-bundle over your hypersurface. In the first case you local look like R, in the second [0,1).
 
My eventual plan is to find all of $0_{\Bbb N}, 0_{\Bbb Z}, 0_{\Bbb Q}, 0_{\Bbb R},$ and maybe even $0_{\Bbb C}$
 
My script says that this follows from Cauchy-Schwarz-equation, I don't understand what equation do you need for this as there are many forms of CS?
 
10:41 PM
I'm reading over this question trying to prove the same thing math.stackexchange.com/questions/671222/… and I'm not sure what "axiom" the answer is referring to. Can anyone anyone point out what axiom this is? I don't want to post an entirely new question for something already answered...
 
I only know the CS-inequality as for inner products
 
Anyone know? I had assumed it meant the fifth incidence axiom for space consisting of at least three noncollinear points. Hence, we would have the line defined by two and one which is not on the line.
 
10:57 PM
@PVAL The above is way too hard. You just need to show that there are arbitrarily small saturated neighborhoods of your leaves.
 
Heya @MikeM
 
Hi.
Let $f$ continuous on $(a,-a)$ and there exists a $k \in (0,1)$ such that $\displaystyle\lim_{x \to 0}{\displaystyle\frac{f(x)-f(kx)}{x}} = L$. Prove $f$ is differentiable at $x=0$ and obtain $f'(0)$.
I got $f'(0)$. How do I prove its differentiable?
 
If you proved that $f'(0)$ exists, you've proved it's differentiable at $0$.
 
I supposed $f'(0)$ exists, so I did:
$f'(0) = \displaystyle\lim_{x \to 0}\dfrac{f(x)-f(kx) + f(kx)-f(0) }{x} = L + kf'(0)$
so $\dfrac{L}{1-k} = f'(0)$
 
Oh, yeah, that assumed that $f'(0)$ exists.
 
11:06 PM
Yep.
 
You should use your trick but a different way.
Add and subtract $f(0)$ instead.
 
Shall I prove by $\delta - \epsilon$ def that $\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} \dfrac{f(x)-f(0)}{x} = \dfrac{L}{1-k}$ exists or...?
Mm.
 
Or not.
 
I get the same @TedShifrin
 
Does it matter if $k\in (0,1)$, or is it ok for any $k\ne 1$?
 
11:09 PM
no, $k\in (0,1)$
 
Yeah, but I don't see why we need that.
 
Me too.
Probably to bound it.
 
So write it up in such a way that you deduce that $f'(0)$ exists, rather than assuming it.
 
I can't. I don't know what do you mean.
I think you mean this
ops
 
So officially we can't break it up into two limits unless we know each of them exists.
 
11:11 PM
Indeed.
I didn't mean that :P
 
No, but it's still the right approach. Because if the limit doesn't exist, nor does $(1-k)$ times the limit.
 
What I meant is that we still need to show that $f'(0)$ exists breaking it in two limits.
Oh.
Let me see.
$\displaystyle L = \lim_{x \to 0 } \dfrac{f(x)-f(k\cdot x)}{x} = \lim_{x \to 0 } \dfrac{f(x)- f(0) + f(0) - f(k\cdot x)}{x} = \lim_{x \to 0} \dfrac{f(x)- f(0)}{x} - \lim_{x \to 0 } \dfrac{f(k\cdot x)-f(0)}{x} = \dots$
 
provided those limits exist, yes.
 
but that is what we have to prove!
I don't see your point.
so @TedShifrin should I proceed with the $\delta - \epsilon$ definition?
 
Yes, do that. You know the correct answer. So use the $\delta$ you get from the known limit and show that ...
I'll be back in a moment. I'm having browser issues.
 
11:29 PM
Oh
Now I see why $0<|k|< 1$
 
I actually think you have to do it by contradiction (as I sort of suggested at the beginning).
 
@TedShifrin look at this
We can define $g_{n}(t):=\dfrac{f(k^{n}t)-f(k^{n+1}t)}{t}$
 
Oh, that's sneaky. Go on.
 
and, because $k\in(0,1)$, fixed an $\epsilon > 0$ there exists $\delta > 0$ such that if $0<|t|<\delta$ then $|g_{n}(t)-L|<\varepsilon$ for all $n \geq 0 $
On the other hand, $\dfrac{f(t)-f(0)}{t}=g_{0}(t)+kg_{1}(t)+\dots+k^{n}g_{n+1}(t)+\dfrac{f(k^{n+1})‌​-f(0)}{t}$
and because $L/(1-k)=L(1+k+k^{2}+\dots+k^{n})+Lk^{n+1}/(1-k)$ we can apply the triangle inequality getting: $\Big|\dfrac{f(t)-f(0)}{t}-\dfrac{L}{1-k}\Big|\leq |g_{1}(t)-L|+\dots+k^{n}|g_{n+1}(t)-L|+\Big|\dfrac{f(k^{n+1}t)-f(0)}{t}\Big|+$
$ +\dfrac{Lk^{n+1}}{1-k}$
nice
taking $n\to \infty$ we are done
 
Seems OK. You can do it my way with a contradiction proof easily enough.
 
11:39 PM
How?
What contradiction we will get?
Ah, I see.
 
If the limit isn't $L/(1-k)$, there's some $\epsilon_0>0$ and $x_n\to 0$ with $\left|\dfrac{f(x_n)-f(0)}{x_n} - \dfrac L{1-k}\right|\ge \epsilon_0$. Playing with the reverse triangle inequality gives a contradiction.
You're in more advanced analysis class, I assume ;)
Oh, no, this isn't right. Rats.
 
I need the inequality for both $x_n$ and $kx_n$.
Interesting. So now I wonder if there's a counterexample with $k=2$.
 
$\left|\dfrac{f(x_n)-f(0)}{x_n} - \dfrac L{1-k}\right| \geq \left|\dfrac{f(x_n)-f(0)}{x_n}\right| - \left| \dfrac L{1-k}\right|$
 
No, no.
I was still using $f(x)-f(kx) = f(x)-f(0) - (f(kx)-f(0))$.
But what I was doing won't work.
 
11:46 PM
Yeah.
At first I thought it will work.
So there is no a proof with contradiction? :(
I love the contradiction proofs.
 
So I see that your proof, using $k<1$, might be needed. So I'm now wondering if it fails for $k>1$.
 
It is needed for the first statement.
and, because $k\in(0,1)$, fixed an $\epsilon>0$ there exists $\delta>0$ such that if $0<|t|<\delta$ then $|g_n(t)−L|<\epsilon$ for all $n≥0$
Actually I'm not sure about that statement
 
Yes, I get that. And you certainly used $0<k<1$ to get $\lim k^n = 0$. But you can get the limit for $k>1$ by manipulating that one and vice versa, so it's true in general, as I thought.
Interesting problem.
 
Uhm. Actually can we say $\displaystyle\lim_{x \to 0} \dfrac{f(k^2x) - f(k^3x)}{x} = L$?
I'm not sure now.
I think it should be $n > 2$.
 
You mean with a factor of $k^2$?
Why do you need $n>2$?
 
11:54 PM
yeah
I don't see why that limit is $L$ now.
Starting to get confused with my own proof :/
 
Substituting $k^2x$ for $x$ in the original.
It's $k^2L$.
 
Uhm.
The original is $\displaystyle\lim_{x \to 0}{\displaystyle\frac{f(x)-f(kx)}{x}} = L$
 
So?
 
I'm thinking why it should be $k^2L$
 
Set $k^2x = u$.
 
11:57 PM
Yeah, that's what I was doing. I still get the limit is $L$.
 
No you don't :)
 
Mhmm.
Indeed.
10 mins ago, by Topologicalife
and, because $k\in(0,1)$, fixed an $\epsilon>0$ there exists $\delta>0$ such that if $0<|t|<\delta$ then $|g_n(t)−L|<\epsilon$ for all $n≥0$
 
Huh?
 
That's false.
 
Oh, you mean $|g_n(t)-k^nL|$.
 
11:59 PM
I have $|g_n(t) - k^n L | < \epsilon$ :P
yeah
 

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