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12:00 AM
Is this saying $n$ could also take $0$ as a value?
 
@Akiva You have one?
 
Oh
 
I have my phone but it won't fold
Oh, I think I get it
 
12:04 AM
@MeowMix Thanks, I over-complicated the question becasue I thought $\zeta(x)$ is the zeta function
 
Ah :P
 
@MeowMix Remimd me: is a quadrilateral cyclic if a pair of opposite angles add to 180?
 
One pair?
Or both?
 
if one pair does the other would too
and yes to Akiva
 
oh yea im an idiot
 
12:07 AM
@MeowMix Then two opposite corners of your thingy are 90 degrees I think
and so it's cyclic
 
Yeah
But, these kids don't learn euclidean geometry like that
they only know circles and stuff
 
Hi, could a moderator help me to recover an answer ?
 
and they haven't learned inscribed angle
 
An user provided the right solution to a question I asked not even hour ago, but he deleted the solution before I get to fully understand the solution.
 
12:38 AM
@lydias
(Click on it to make it larger)
 
I am reading a machine learning text book, it has a example says:"a line has measure zero while a filled polygon has positive measure". From wolfalpha, measure zero is a set of points capable of being enclosed in intervals whose total length is arbitrarily small.
I still don't understand the example
 
@Simple: That's only when it's a subset of the real line.
You have to scale it up to whatever dimension you're in. If you have a subset of the plane, measure 0 means you can cover it by a countable collection of rectangles the sum of whose areas is arbitrarily small.
 
Instead of intervals, you'd use cells (rectangles with sides parallel to the axes), I think
 
the measure of a subset of R^1 is its total "length." the measure of a subset of R^2 is its total "area." the measure of a subset of R^3 is its total "volume." and so on.
 
Hi @Ted
 
12:41 AM
And all the peanut gallery weighs in :P
Hi, DogAteMy, tern, and re Zach. Only here for a few moments.
 
I don't know how you'd define an "arclength measure" for $\Bbb R^2$, though. If you have a parametrization, I know how, but not for like an arbitrary point set
Does it exist?
 
There are various Hausdorff measures, DogAteMy. That's the right notion.
 
@TedShifrin I see, thanks
 
For "arclength" you'd want $1$-dimensional Hausdorff measure.
 
Ohh, I think I see
 
12:44 AM
DogAteMy: In answer to your query above, students these days (in elementary/middle school) are taught to make a "tree diagram" of the various factors.
 
And then what
 
Look for repeated factors
 
Well, eventually, you're done. If you don't see anything better, take out a 2, then look at the new number. Keep taking out factors until you're done.
 
For example, $340 = 2 * 17 * 5 * 2$
 
If you end up with $11\cdot 13$, then most elementary school kids won't recognize it.
 
12:45 AM
You notice two twos, so that's the only perfect square divisor
 
Divisibility tests help, but they don't know much except 2, 3, 5, 9. They certainly don't get taught 7 or 11 these days, I think.
 
I meant after they have the factorization, Ted
Like, I know how to do it, but I'm not good at teaching it
 
Then do what Zach said. Look for factors appearing an even number of times.
Well, in fact, any factor appearing twice, you should separate out.
 
@Ted What is your favorite metric space for isometries?
Like, the coolest.
 
Hell if I know.
You don't like our infinite-dimensional sequence space from the other day? :P
 
12:47 AM
LOL alright
 
I like the vector space of continuous functions on a closed interval, too.
 
Well, that was cool
Also @Balarka's function space
(Weierstrass Approximation Thm.?)
 
Right, he was arguing that polynomials are dense in the one I just said.
Is that OK, DogAteMy?
 
Polynomial all of whose terms are $x^p$ where $p$ is prime are also dense.
 
This actually came up recently with some of the kids I'm helping at the library.
 
12:48 AM
So even something like this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weierstrass_function
 
Wait, @MikeM — how do I get arbitrarily close to $x^2$ with those?
Hmm, maybe I believe you.
Yup, it's far from obvious, Zach.
 
:P
 
Disagree. Think it's quite clear for that function
 
I was just looking up a continuous nowhere differentiable function
 
Take first Taylor series of first function
Them second for first two functions
Third for first three. ETC
 
12:54 AM
OK, time for me to eat and bridge. Night, all.
 
Good night @TedShifrin
 
Good night Ted :]
 
@AkivaWeinberger Thank you so much!!!
 
@MikeMiller …Whoa
@MeowMix There's a proof of the Weierstrass Approximation Thm. that starts with a lemma that says that $|x|$ can be approximated by polynomials
The rest of the proof is really elementary
(unfortunately, I can't remember it)
 
@Akiva I have a cool little geometry puzzle :]
 
1:08 AM
i walked my mile and i feel so happy right now
i walk a little more and will cut the tires of my moms bycicle so that she finally walks again
 
@Akiva Suppose kite $ABCD$ has diagonals which intersect at $E$. Consider the four points by reflecting $E$ over the sides of the kite. Prove that those four points are cyclic
 
because that order comes directly from hell :D
 
@Alucard …What?
@MeowMix Are quadrilaterals cyclic if they have a line of symmetry and no vertices on that line?
Because the quadrilateral you've constructed has that
Actually, such quadrilaterals have to be isosceles trapezoids, right?
 
Yeah
Wait, it might not be that
 
And I'm pretty sure isosceles trapezoids are always cyclic
 
1:21 AM
They are
My solution used inversion
 
Also @Alucard I have a sneaking suspicion you might have schizophrenia
but I am not a doctor
 
@Akiva From there you can uniformly approximate PL functions
and by picking a fine enough mesh you can approximate continuous functions with PL functions
 
Oh yeah I guess that makes sense
'cause you can make $\min$ and $\max$ out of $|\cdot|$
so you can make things that are constant from $-\infty$ to $a$, linear from $a$ to $b$, and constant from $b$ to $+\infty$
and then you can make PL stuff out by summing those
@MikeMiller How do you prove your thing with primes, though?
That's harder because it's not obvious that the composition of functions that you can approximate results in a function you can approximate
It's not obvious how to do $x^4$, for example
Do you use fancier things? like integrals?
 
Is it L'Hopital or L'Hospital? The name was L'Hôpital but I've seen it both ways. Is either one an acceptable name?
 
I think L'Hopital is better but I'm not sure
You can probably get away with either
 
1:35 AM
Okay, thanks.
 
"L'Long Island College Hospital" is not recommended
(Partly because it is no more. RIP LICH)
 
Hey guys, I'm trying to do (ii) for this question
The conjecture I made is $S_n = \displaystyle\sum_{i=0}^{n} 2^i$. But I'm not sure what I'm supposed to prove for (iii)
 
Remember I shared this a while ago?
(Positive integer values, another version specifies)
 
1:50 AM
Values is easy, positive integers is hard. I tried to run the program a while back but I don't know how to do those things optimally
 
@Dragneel They want something without the $\sum$ sign
 
@AkivaWeinberger Hmm okay. I'll try rewriting (ii).
 
What values did you get for (i)?
 
1, 3, 7, 15, and 31
$2^{n+1}-1$
 
@Dragneel Looks about right
Have you heard of geometric progressions?
 
1:57 AM
Alright, I'm going to try to prove this by induction.
 
Although induction would work as well
 
I can't say I've heard of geometric progression. I'll use induction :)
 
@AkivaWeinberger R.I.P
 
@AkivaWeinberger if you walk to the doctor you get all diagnosis you want, i don't care, i just do what's right
my mom is fat, she has to walk, that's my opinion
 
@Alucard It's not just diagnoses, it's also prescriptions to help people get better.
Also, bicycle probably burns the same amount of calories as walking, but more efficiently
 
2:05 AM
no, it's a night and fog action
my mom takes medicines and is fat
so take my words of wisdom, run your ass off
 
It's your choice. But statistically, cycling would probably burn more calories in the long run.
Hey @Akiva Wanna play bowling with Ted's eyes?
 
tell me, @MeowMix what good is statistics if you are unable to calculate?
 
What do you mean?
 
have a nice day, devil
 
Uhhhh I'm concerned. Whatever.
 
2:19 AM
Hello!
 
HELLO!
 
Hi @mdave16
 
How popular are these chats?
 
very
they are very popular
 
Depends on the time of day
 
2:21 AM
Because I have literally only been in here once before, and that's because M.SE said i shouldn't have conversations in comments
what time of day is popular
 
Hi @Mike
 
@mdave16 24/7
 
Probably mostly when the US is experiencing daylight
(although now I'm curious — we could probably get a bot to run the statistics or something)
 
@Alucard that's a good time of day to be popular
 
There's a fairly large recurring cast here
 
2:22 AM
To not have \LaTeX would be a $\sin$
 
We do; you have to turn it on. Look at the info box on the top-right
 
aha
i feel like a god amongst other gods who have known it for longer
 
Test: $\displaystyle\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac1{n^2}=\frac{\pi^2}6$
 
@mdave16 yes
 
@mdave16 So, are you studying at a university or something right now?
 
2:28 AM
yes, should be sleeping i guess. I'm doing my final year of my masters
 
Oh, cool. Pure math?
 
yeah, it's been so long since i've called it that, i've almost forgotten that other types of maths even exist
 
I eat my noodles with my knife :D
 
3:10 AM
i laid myself in bed
showtime
 
Anyone have any experience with people majoring in CS and later going to grad school for math?
I'm about to graduate with a bachelor's in CS doing undergrad research in ML, but I've always been so much more interested in number theory/combinatorics than my CS courses. (I double-majored in math and took courses in algebra, linear algebra, analysis, number theory, algebraic combinatorics, and stochastic processes, so I believe I have a better feel for pure math than had I only majored in CS.)
 
3:34 AM
I do not know what these terms mean, but I do know about people who did a BSc in CS and then a MMath or an MSc in Maths
 
wtf, ok
 
i'm from the uk, words are a bit different, from what i gather, you did a bunch of maths courses on top of your core CS ones, you enjoyed it, you wanted to know if you were alone or you had kin (education wise at least)
or maths modules, a course would be a lot
 
3:55 AM
Can I get some help proving this? I suspect I should be using induction, but I don't know how to actually start it.
The base step with $n=0$ does work.
 
binomial theorem
 
Ohhh! So $7^n$ is actually $(1+6)^n$
 
4:46 AM
Question relating to programming, if a program continues looping until a random value within the range of $[0,2]$ is $<=1$, can it always be considered halting? That is, can a list of uniformly random numbers of infinite length be considered to hold any number or number within an arbitrary range?
 
can't get the question ?
 
I have no idea how to prove this one way or another.
 
why does the derivative of $ sin (9 \theta) $ result as 0?
i thought it would be $9cos (9\theta)$
 
$\theta$ might be a constant there :)
 
yes but doesnt it stand "in place of" a variable constant just like x?
 
5:02 AM
the derivative of $\sin(9\theta)$ with respect to $\theta$ is $9\cos(9\theta)$. why do you say otherwise? give context.
 
after getting that derivative, i couldnt make sense of that question with regard to the unit circle
 
so nobody told you the derivative of $\sin(9\theta)$ was $0$, you just made that up...
 
i decided to just try "there are no critical points" and by luck, it was correct
 
you saw the $0<\theta<\pi/18$ part right?
 
@arctictern no wait lemme show you
i went there for help in case i had got the derivative wrong, and it showed 0
 
5:08 AM
yeah, $\frac{d}{d\color{Red}x}\sin(9\theta)=0$
notice the letter $x$
 
ahhh
my mistake
calculus makes a fool of me again :(
 
but you saw the $0<\theta<\pi/18$ condition in the directions right?
 
@arctictern yes this was the part that wasnt making sense to me when i was trying to find zeroes with the derivative
 
so, does $9\cos(9\theta)=0$ have any solutions with $0<\theta<\pi/18$?
 
hmmm i see. no it does not
 
5:10 AM
so, no critical points. done.
 
i didnt note that $\frac {\pi}{18} $ wasnt included
thank you @arctictern
 
mmhmm
 
5:32 AM
Hey guys
 
hello@Daminark
 
How's it going?
 
yup nice ... you watched Hidden Figures ?
 
Nope
 
Nice movie
Dedicated to mathematics ,NASA ,Catherine Goble!
 
5:42 AM
Cool, I'll check it out at some point
 
so I'm assuming Catherine Goble was your ex?
 
@SoumyoB She was an african Mathematician at NASA,helped very much at various space missions.
you can't assume that
as that will give you a contradiction! think!
 
what was particularly spectacular about that? I mean there must be several other mathematicians too at NASA?
 
For that you must watch the movie! spoiler alert!
 
which movie? I'm missing something
 
5:51 AM
Hidden Figures
Just all same C replaced by K in the name!
 
6:11 AM
Alucard: Well, while I do use computers late at night, I never had used mobiles when I am on my bed
 
 
4 hours later…
10:25 AM
Hello everyone!
Anyone interested in Mathematics software Maple, then please join us here
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/107315/maple
 
i want to show that $f(x,y) = x \ ^ y$ is integrible at $[0,1] \times [a,b]$ for $b \gt a \gt 0$ , so i thought showing it is continuous , but i am a bit stuck on this, someone can help ?
 
SBM
Ok, back to my doubt from yesterday
Example situation: Suppose you own a large factory
You have $n$ machines in your assembly line.
You need the sum of their power ratings in megawatts to be $G$
You know the cost function, say, if $f(x) = \displaystyle \sum_{j = 1}^n \left(k_i x_i^2\right)$
where $x_i$ is the rated Wattage
and $k_i$ is some coefficient.
 
10:45 AM
any1 on Numerical analysis ?
 
SBM
Also, considering there are various categories of such machines, you have determined a function which calculates the cost on electricity similar to $f(x)$
OOPs
The catch is as the value of one of these functions increases the other decreases. Maybe I gave the wrong example
You'd want to keep things in your budget by spending as less as possible yet minimising both together
How do you do that sort of optimisation on given bounds for your $x_i$, is what I was trying to ask yesterday?
 
ah the sunlight
help :D
 
SBM
@Alucard ??
 
11:26 AM
i used sunmilk
 
Mehhhh, I'm stuck and my brain isn't helping at all
 
SBM
???
I don't know if something I did was pretty horrible.
 
What are you stuck on? @krijn
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I know that morphisms $\mathbb{P}^1 \to \mathbb{P}^1$ are functions of the form $f/g$ with $f$ and $g$ both homogeneous polynomials of the same degree and coprime
I'm trying to find out how many there are over $\mathbb{F}_q$
Of say, degree $n$
Now you can go full on combinatoric on this, but I was hoping someone would have solved this rather elegantly
 
11:46 AM
Can't you count the number of elements in $GL(n,\Bbb F_q)$ and work out how many get quotiented?
I'm not sure why I thought that'd be easier now that I think about it
 
Some $PGL_2$, $PSL_2$ or $GL_2$ will probably be useful, so I should probably start looking there, thanks
 
Hi @Alessandro, @Krijn
 
$GL_2(q)$ is easy, you have $q^2-1$ choices for the first column and $q^2-q$ for the second
Unless I'm off by one in the second (or completely wrong)
Hi @Balarka
 
@BalarkaSen Heya
@AlessandroCodenotti No, this is correct
 
12:06 PM
So in $GL_n(q)$ you have $(q^n-1)(q^n-q)(q^n-q^2)...(q^n-q^n-1)$ elements
By the same reasoning, since you exclude a bigger subspace for every column
 
Yeah, but how do these relate to my question?
 
You wanted to count the number of projective transformation on $\Bbb P(\Bbb F_q)$ right?
 
Not projective transformations, I think, but rational functions.
 
@BalarkaSen This, indeed
 
Ah, I thought you wanted PGL, nevermind then
That was a combinatorics exercise for Balarka's joy then :P
 
12:19 PM
These are le cool combinatorics
Counting the set of 5 numbers from the naturals 1 to 30 which are in AP ain't (although that's not too hard either)
 
Yeah my plan was: Write $n = a_1 + .. + a_k$, I know how many primes there are of any degree $a_i$ then look in which way you can combine these, such that $f$ and $g$ stay coprime
 
12:52 PM
What's an example of an infinite dimensional algebra over $\Bbb R$ without 0-divisors but which isn't a division algebra?
With identity*
 
Hi @BalarkaSen
 
Because we saw a theorem saying that a finite dimensional algebra with identity over $\Bbb R$ is a division algebra iff it has no 0-divisors (and one direction holds regardless of the dimension)
 
1:10 PM
o/
I have a super-duper simple question which I somehow cannot solve
 
In Milnor's book on Morse theory, he considers the space of paths in some manifold from $p$ to $q$. He topologizes this space in terms of a metric
Let $\rho$ be the metric on the manifold (induced by its Riemannian structure) and let $s(t)=\int_0^t \bigg\|\frac{d\gamma}{dt'}\bigg\| dt'$ be the arc length of $\gamma:I\to M$
Then we define the metric by:

$$d(\gamma,\gamma')=\max_{t\in I}\rho(\gamma(t),\gamma'(t))+\Bigg(\int_0^1\bigg(\frac{d s}{dt}-\frac{d s'}{dt}\bigg)^2d t\Bigg)^{1/2}$$
He then remarks that the second term ensures that the *energy*

$$E(\gamma)=\int_0^1 \bigg\|\frac{d \gamma}{d t}\bigg\|^2 d t=\int_0^1 \bigg\| \frac{ds}{dt}\bigg\|^2 dt$$

is a continuous function
It seems sorta obvious that this should work, but I cannot seem to be able to get a bound on $E(\gamma)-E(\gamma')$ in terms of the second term of $d$.
In fact, if I set $\| ds/dt\|=f$ then I'm trying to bound $\int_0^1 f(t)^2-f'(t)^2$ in terms of $\Big(\int_0^1 (f(t)-f'(t))^2\Big)^{1/2}$. The most obvious thing to do seems to square the latter, but I cannot seem to make progress. If you just square it you can easily show that one cannot get a pointwise bound (higher powers don't seem to help either) and I don't believe that it's an integral-but-not-pointwise bound. Am I wrong?
 
1:27 PM
Measure theory bubbles
any1 any idea on this -
 
Guys, when proving the product rule in one dimension, we add a clever zero, and show that $(f\cdot g)'=f'g+fg'$. However, I don't really know how I should do that in the more-dimensional case. Does anyone know where I can find a proof online?
 
@BAYMAX, yes, I'll write now.
 
I managed to show that $(f+g)'=f'+g'$ for higher dimensions, but I can't seem to use the analogy with the one-dimensional case for the product rule
 
1:45 PM
in every single pdf that deals with differentiability that I have come across
 
Ah, I think it has been resolved. The point is that $E$ is probably not uniformly continuous, but it is continuous.
 
and leave the product rule to the reader:l
they prove the simple case of addition
 
1:58 PM
Say $f,g\colon R^m\to R^n$ are differentiable at $\vec a\in\mathbb R^m$. That means that
$$
\lim_{\vec h\to\vec 0}\frac{f(\vec a+\vec h)-f(\vec a)-Df(\vec a)(\vec h)}{\Vert \vec h\Vert}=\vec 0,
$$
and the same for $g$. Now what I need to show is that $f\cdot g$ has the following derivative: $f(\vec a)Dg(\vec a)+Df(\vec a)f(a)$, so we need to show that
$$
\lim_{\vec h\to\vec 0}\frac{f(\vec a+\vec h)g(\vec a+\vec h)-f(\vec a)g(\vec a)-f(\vec a)Dg(\vec a)(\vec h)-Df(\vec a)(\vec h)g(\vec a)}{\Vert \vec h\Vert}=\vec 0,
But I can't use the analogy of the one-dimensional case, because it doesn't hold that:
$$
\lim_{\vec h\to\vec 0}\frac{f(\vec a+\vec h)-f(\vec a)}{\Vert \vec h\Vert}=Df(\vec a),
$$
does it? We'd rather have that it equals $Df(\vec a)(\vec e_1+...+\vec e_n)$, right?
or maybe that's the same
 
@ShaVuklia you're trying to prove the product rule ?
 
yes
for the dot product
 
do you know the chain rule?
 
not yet
i thought I could first prove the product rule
and then I would proceed to the proof of the chain rule
so i need to use the chain rule to prove the product rule?
 
I guess you could do it without it, the chain rule make it simpler
 
2:10 PM
right well then i'll first read on the chain rule
 
2:26 PM
Guys
4
Q: An unfair "fair game."

User112358This is problem 2.2.8 from Durrett's Probability Theory and Examples 4th edition, I am using the version of this book that can be found on his website. Let $p_k=\frac{1}{2^k k (k+1)}, \ k=1,2,\dots$ and $p_0=1-\sum_{k\geq 1}p_k.$ $$ \sum\limits_{k=1}^\infty 2^k p_k = \left(1-\frac{1}{2}\rig...

Plz put bounty on this.
 
why not put one on yourself though?
 
I have short
 
Hi @Daminark
 
2:43 PM
How's it going?
 
yea pretty alright, you?
 
Everything's doing aight, thanks!
 
0
Q: Show the following two growth orders are same.

kayak Let $m(n)=\min\{m:2^{-m}m^{-3/2}\leq n^{-1}\}$. Then $$ 2^{m(n)}\sim\frac{n}{\log_{2}n}. $$ This problem is a piece of solving : An unfair "fair game."

Check this for me.
 
So my professor for Difftop actually posts lecture notes, which is like, not something most do, so I very much appreciate that
 
Hi chat
 
2:50 PM
o.O
At my university, it's a very rare exception for professors not to post lecture notes
ohi
 
Hi Astyx
with us, it's 50-50
 
How was your exam @ShaVuklia ?
 
Though in both that class and analysis, there are people TeXing notes
 
I didn't do it:/
 
Really ? All that stress for nothing ? :p
Why is that ?
 
2:51 PM
Though, most of this is because a lot of classes are in Dutch. Rather than use Dutch books of lesser quality, professors makes Dutch lecture notes based on English books; while recommending those books as "extra material"
 
I wouldn't do it well anyways.. didn't finish everything yesterday
I was quite tired when I woke up, so I thought, better skip this exam, and prepare well for the next one for tomorrow
 
Well, sometimes that is a good decision
 
Huh
 
That's unfortunate @Sha, sorry. Which year are you by the way?
 
First @Daminark
 
2:52 PM
but on the other hand: what do you lose from taking part, except maybe a few hours?
 
Yes, as long as you're sure it's not out of laziness or stress, it's a good decision
 
Yea, well, I really appreciated Ted's help yesterday. At least I learned something yesterday:p
 
Even if you don't expect to pass the exam, seeing the questions and getting a "feel" for the exam is a good experience
 
So wait they give multiple opportunities to take the exam?
 
Of course, if those "few hours" are very important to prepare for the next exam, that's a different matter
 
2:53 PM
And @Steamy that makes sense re: lecture notes
 
@SteamyRoot it's not an excuse, but I'm having some sleep problems lately, so "energy" can quite be an issue for me, so it means a lot for me to be able to stay in bed for one more hour, and not waste 4 hours for going to the test and taking the test:d
 
Decided to put this on MathOverflow instead of MSE. Not sure it's the right call, but w/e
0
Q: Behavior of a Baker-Campbell-Hausdorff problem at infinity

SemiclassicalThe Baker-Campbell-Hausdorff problem is to obtain $\log(e^{X}e^{Y})$ where $X,Y$ are appropriate operators. The Dynkin series $$\log(e^{tX}e^{tY})=t(X+Y)+\frac{t^2}{2}[X,Y]+o(t^3)$$ gives an expansion in powers of a perturbation parameter $t$, with higher coefficients expressed in terms of succes...

 
Hi @Semiclassical
 
hi @Astyx
 
(@Daminark I'll be doing the retake!)
 
2:55 PM
I'm really never sure when to put stuff on MathOverflow instead of MSE.
 
Oh OK, I did not know that retakes were a thing so I was deeply concerned for a minute there
 
My rule of thumb tends to be: If I end up citing theorems in a research paper instead of a textbook, then I'm okay putting it on MO.
 
hahah, I've taken retakes on 50% of my tests this year :P mostly redoing a test I did "average" (6 out of 10) to doing it well (9 out of 10)
 
Oh, you're allowed to retake tests you passed?
 
yes, but it's not allowed at every university in the Netherlands
in Amsterdam it is tho!
 
2:57 PM
Nice
 
It used to be allowed at my university, but a lot of students would sign up for retakes and not show up; which puts a heavy burden on administration and staff needlessly
 
lol, they could have easily solved that problem in a different way, instead of stopping with the retakes :P
something like, if you sign up, you have to take it, and it you don't take it, you get a 0. so students would be more careful
 
Well, one of the things they proposed was fining people who didn't show up
In the end, we did something similar to what you propose
 
fining??? like actually charging money?
 
Yes
 
2:58 PM
That's...different.
 
whoah:P
that sounds... American I guess XD
 
In the end, the university pays staff for their time
 
I'd more understand a deposit for signing up for retakes.
 
yea right, but involving money just sounds weird :P
 
Well, the idea was scrapped in the end
 
2:59 PM
If you show up to take it, you get that deposit back; if you don't, you don't.
 

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