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8:17 PM
hey anybody on good conceptually with quantum computers?
does 300 qubit yield 2^300 (bits) of neg-entropy or 300
 
@shai Until I answer your question I am simultaneously good and bad with quantum computers.
 
so thats a no.. lol
i found a strong limit for the size of a computational engine of a certain size of negentropy
 
It was a joke
 
i know, but i observed it
and a joke observed and especially analyzed...
by size i mean a minimum volume for a computation of n bits, $R=(2ln(2)kTG/c^4)*n$ where n is the number of bits k is boltzman constant and T is temperature and R is radius and G is newton's gravitational contstant
based off of 1bit = ln(2)kT joules by szilards engine, e=mc^2 and schwarzild radius R=2mg/c^2
 
Is it true that if we're talking about the partial derivative of a function $f\colon R^2\to\mathbb R$ (with respect to $x$), we're actually talking about a family of functions? Because for each constant $y$, we actually have a different (specific) partial derivative.
 
8:29 PM
We often say "the partial derivative along $y$" AFAIK
 
Hi Astyx
 
Hi
 
@ShaVuklia You get a function with two inputs ($y$ as well as $x$). In other words, you get another function from $\Bbb R^2\to\Bbb R$.
But you can think of such functions as being infinitely many one-variable functions, one for each $y$. That's essentially the difference between writing $g(x,y)$ and $g_y(x)$.
 
@Astyx hi :)
 
Hi @Liad
 
8:35 PM
bonsoir @ast
 
yea I think I got it!
I had forgotten that we calculate the partial derivative at a certain point
so there is no point (no pun intended) to consider other points
you're fixed to a point anyways
(this might all sound very incoherent, but I get it!)
Hi @Astyx btw!
 
Hi @Alucard and @ShaVuklia
 
Comment vas-tu @Astyx
 
Pas super bien mais bon ... et toi ?
 
8:38 PM
Oh, mais pourquoi pas?:(
oh, je n'ai pas lu "mais bon" :P
 
a petit peu francais
 
Des raisons stupides
 
ah oui oui, c'est la vie, n'est-ce pas:P
 
What about you ?
 
moi, je vais bien, je regarde les lectures du Ted!
les cours*, je pense
 
8:39 PM
"Du @Ted" :p
"les cours", oui c'est plus correct
 
@Astyx c'est pas correct?:P
 
$f(x,y) = 1 $ if $x\in \Bbb Q$ and $2y$ other wise
 
@ShaVuklia De quoi parles-tu ?
 
$\int \overline \int f(x,y) dx dy$
 
tu peux le trouver;
 
8:40 PM
im trying to calculate this integral between 0,1 in both integrals
 
clique sur l'icone
 
Ah je ne savais pas tiens
 
somewhere in my room is the key
 
this is French ?
 
to get out
 
8:41 PM
Non ce n'est pas très correct
 
it's the smell
 
haha, de* Ted?:P
 
It's like saying "the lectures of the ted"
 
hahahahaha
le Wild Ted :P
 
"De Ted" is better yep
 
8:42 PM
hahahahahah ah oui, tu as raison
 
Hehe
 
du = de le
je me souviens
 
@Liad They speak in French every once in a while
You get used to it
 
:-)
 
8:44 PM
@Akiva I always seem to be the cause of it, even though I rarely start it
 
I see Alucard is in an AC/DC mood
 
I need help proving the trigonometric identity (a tan u + b)^2 + (b tan u - a)^2 = (a^2+ b^2) sec^2 u
i first began my distribution of the left side
i ended up with:
 
with what, Sir?
 
8:53 PM
a^2*tan^2(u)+2abtan(u)+b^2+b^2*tan^2(u)-2abtan(u)+a^2
i see that there are two terms i can cancel
 
that's correct
 
what would be my next step?
 
recall that tan^2(theta) + 1= sec^2(theta)
 
how can i apply this identity?
 
by thinking about it
 
8:55 PM
not bad @BalarkaSen
 
not bad what?
 
After cancelling and a bit of rearranging, you have a^2*tan^2(u)+a^2+b^2*tan^2(u)+b^2, right? @MacroGuy
 
you pushed him through the limit
 
i can manipulate the identity you gave me to tan^2(theta) = sec^2(thera)-2 which can be placed in my expression
 
-1, you mean
 
8:57 PM
-1* yes sorry
 
@Alu The hell?
 
Alternately, look at what I wrote — see if anything factors out of the first two and last two terms @MacroGuy
 
give me a minute
 
@BalarkaSen you are too hot for me, excuse me that i interrupted your show
 
8:58 PM
i just have no idea what any of your messages mean
feels like a bot
 
i'm a vampire, sorry
 
i factored out tan^2(u) from the first two terms
giving me:
 
tan^2(u)(a^2+b^2)+a^2+b^2
 
@MacroGuy Right. What else can you factor out?
 
9:00 PM
tan^2(u)(a^2+b^2)+(a^2+b^2)
 
if i where a bot, could i do this? asihsaourrbauweruooafdsu
 
i believe i can factor out a^2+b^2 from the remaining two terms, correct?
 
Yep
@Alucard Depends on how shitty the bot is
 
a^2+b^2(tan^2(u)+1)
 
Ok I crumble myself
 
9:02 PM
tan^2(u) + 1 =
sec(u)
 
You'll want parentheses on the a^2+b^2 because otherwise it looks like a^2 isn't part of the thing that's multiplying it
 
resulting in
 
(a^2+b^2)(tan^2(u)+1)
 
i see thank you
(a^2+b^2)(sec^2(u))
 
9:04 PM
thank you so much i was struggling with this identity
 
You're welcome
 
(a tan u + b)^2 + (b tan u - a)^2 = (a^2+ b^2) (sec^2 u) was the identity
is there any way i can give you a thumbs up similar to voting a thread on stackexchange?
 
Not really (but the "thank you" is appreciated!).
 
haha okay
math is a fascinating subject but it can be frustrating
 
True
 
9:06 PM
im going to continue studying now. see you later
 
Bye
"Good luck have fun"
 
9:22 PM
i need help with another identity im not very good at this yet
prove that: cot^2(x) + csc(x) +1 = (1-sin(x))/(sin(x))
i simplified the left term to:
(csc^2(x)-1)/(csc(x)+1)
 
should i factor out csc even if i have -1 on the numerator and +1 on the denominator?
should i multiply the numerator with the reciprocal of the denominator?
 
can the big O symbol of Landau also be used for function $f\colon R^n\to R^m$ ?
 
or a difference of squares?
factoring a difference of squares allowed me to cancel terms and prove the identity actually
 
9:33 PM
Okay, you're not a bot, you're just a spammer.
 
no
i just try to free souls, that's all
and now I walk my mile and feel like the champion of the world
 
hi guys
question
if you have a composed multivariable function
let's say something of the form f(h(g(x))
when applying the chain rule to this function, we need to rearrange the intermediate results in column or row vectors depending on the needs when multiplying the resulting intermediate derivatives arbitrarily, or what?
in other words, if the derivative is something of the form df/dh * dh/dg * dg/dx, suppose the result of df/dh is a 3x1 vector and the result of dh/dg is a 3x1 vector, then, in theory, we can't multiply them together, so we need to transpose one of those
what do we need to do here?
 
If you use the correct definition of the multivariate derivative and the chain rule correctly you will be able to multiply all the matrices together.
or f(h(g(x)) would'nt make sense as a composition
If f is a map from $R^m \to R^n$, then its derivative at a point is a linear map from $R^m \to R^n$
 
9:49 PM
@PVAL-inactive yes, I thought some of you would come with this argument, but let me explain you my particular situation
In this post I asked a question on why a gradient of a certain function is what it's exposed in that same question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2188637/…
at the end, this gradient is a 3x1 vector
now, I need to find a Jacobian matrix of a vector valued function
suppose that the function of which I took the gradient was f(g), where g is a vector input
 
So if f is valued in $\Bbb R^n$
and x is in $\Bbb R^m$
 
sorry
one thing
 
the derivative of $f$ will be a linear map from R^m to R^n
 
let me correct my last statement
ok, now it's corrected, the input to f when taking its gradient was actually g
but this g, when taking the Jacobian of another function, is actually a function
 
I dont see an issue.
 
9:56 PM
hehe
 
The multivariate chain rule just says you compose these linear maps.
 
the issue is that the gradient of f(g) ends up being a 3x1 vector, and here you can find the reason: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2188637/…
 
The gradient is just a vector it isn't naturally a linear map.
 
but when finding the Jacobian of another function of the form f(h(g(x)), I can use this gradient, but I need to transpose it, otherwise the dimensions do not match
you can see here the Jacobian: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2205273/…
@PVAL-inactive since it isn't a linear map, then I can use it as a row or column vector, as I was suggesting, right?
 
What is your goal?
to calculate the gradient of a function?
 
10:00 PM
no, I've already calculated the gradient
 
I am not going through your calculation carefully.
Do you want to calculate a total derivative?
 
my goal is to calculate the Jacobian of another function, which involves somehow the previous function of which I took the gradient
 
Well then simply your function all you can using composition and use the chain rule in the way I stated it.
If you have a map which outputs a gradient in $\Bbb R^3$ than that map is a map with target in $\Bbb R^3$
so you should differentiate it as such.
 
wait
it's difficult to explain exactly my situation
since it wasn't really an easy Jacobian to calculate
Suppose I have this functoin $e = ||\hat{j}_1 \times g_1(t_k)||_2 - ||\hat{j}_2 \times g_2(t_k)||_2$
where $j_i$ and $g_i$ are $3x1$ vectors
 
So e takes in 4 vectors in $\Bbb R^3$?
and outputs a number
 
10:07 PM
it turns out that the gradient of this function with respect to either $j_1$ or $j_2$ can be calculated as follows $\frac{(g_i(t_k) \times j_) \times g_i(t_k)}{\lVert g_i(t_k) \times j_i \rVert_2}$
in other words, it's a $3x1$ vector
 
So it is a map $\Bbb R^{12} \to \Bbb R$ (which is probably pretty easy to differentiate.
 
??
 
I think you need to consider as input either only $j_1$ or $j_2$ (but not both), so this should be a function of the form $\mathbb{R}^3 \mapsto \mathbb{R}$
 
10:09 PM
all other vectors are constant
when taking the gradient
now
 
so its derivative is a map $\Bbb R^3 \to \Bbb R^1$
its gradient is a vector in $\Bbb R^3$
 
yeah, exactly
now
 
if you want the map which outputs its gradient it is a map $\Bbb R^3 \to \Bbb R^3$
 
yes, it would be such a map
but now I have another function
of which I want to calculate the Jacobian
this other function looks like this
$\begin{bmatrix} ||\hat{j}_1 \times g_1(t_1)||_2 - ||\hat{j}_2 \times g_2(t_1)||_2 \\
||\hat{j}_1 \times g_1(t_2)||_2 - ||\hat{j}_2 \times g_2(t_2)||_2 \\ \vdots \\
||\hat{j}_1 \times g_1(t_k)||_2 - ||\hat{j}_2 \times g_2(t_k)||_2 \end{bmatrix}$
and it takes as input a vector $x$
it's a $4D$ vector
 
I don't see why you would want to compute a gradient to do that.
 
10:13 PM
so this is a function from $\mathbb{R}^4$ to $\mathbb{R}^k$, right?!
wait
now, if you look at this new function, let's call it $f$
it can be decomposed as follows
$h \circ g \circ q$
how?
let me explain how
let $h : \mathbb{R}^3 \mapsto \mathbb{R}^k$
let $g : \mathbb{R}^3 \mapsto \mathbb{R}^3$
and let let $q : \mathbb{R}^4 \mapsto \mathbb{R}^3$
 
define $h$ as the the absolute value function over all rows of $f$
 
so if you can differentiate h,g,q you should be done.
 
@PVAL-inactive wait, here's exactly where the $3 \times 1$ gradient I found before comes in
let $g$ be the cross product function
 
well then g doesnt map $R^3 \to R^3$
unless its cross product with a fixed vector.
 
10:20 PM
and let $q$ be the functions vector $j_i$, which are actually vectors, but these vectors receive as input $x$, and produce their coordinates something of the form $\hat{j}_1={(\operatorname{cos}(\phi_1)\operatorname{cos}(\theta_1),\cos(\phi_1)‌​\operatorname{sin}(\theta_1),\operatorname{sin}(\phi_1))}^T $
@PVAL-inactive Why wouldn't $g$ map from $\mathbb{R}^3$ to the same space? It takes as input vectors $j_i$ and $g_i$ and produces another vector
 
yes it takes inputs in $\Bbb R^3 \times \Bbb R^3$
 
ok
have you understood everything regarding $f$ and $e$ so far?
now, we can use the chain rule to find the Jacobian of $f$
how?
$J_h(g(q(x)) * J_g(q(x)) * J_q(x)$, right?
but now note that I have already $J_h(g(q(x)) * J_g(q(x))$, i.e. it's the gradient I found before, but it's transposed
I know it's not easy to follow
also because these vectors are not very friendly
Why is it the gradient transposed?
let me try to explain
$J_h(g(q(x))$ is actually just the derivative of $h$, so it's a map from $\mathbb{R}^3$ to $\mathbb{R}^k$, since $g$ is the cross product, which is the input, and it produces $k$ rows
 
well I've told you how to differentiate compositions of multivariate functions.
I don't know how else I can help you.
 
when was your last time you punched through the wall?
 
10:31 PM
ok, let me just finish this part, just to show you that I can use the gradient transpose here
$J_g(q(x))$ is actually a map from $R^3$ to $R^3$, so $J_h(g(q(x))∗J_g(q(x))$ ends up being a $k \times 3$ matrix
but if you let $k = 1$, i.e. only the first row of $f$, then basically this is the gradient transposed
anyway
I know it's very difficult to help me, because this is not a toy example
 
0
Q: Is a recursively defined polynomial an automorphism of the base field $k$?

Fruitful ApproachA polynomial is recursively, multiplicatively defined if it is in the closure $K$ of the $k$ under the rules: (1) $a ,b\in k \implies aX + b \in K$ (2) $f,g \in K \implies f\cdot g \in K$ (3) $f,g \in K \implies f\circ g \in K$ If $f(X) = aX + b$, then $X$ is solvable for, namely $X = (f(X) -...

Any ideas?
 
I have no idea what you're trying to do in your question
I don't think it's ever mentioned what $k$ is?
I also don't get the point of setting $X = (f(X)-b)/a$. Both the left- and right-hand side depend on $X$, so how does that "solve $X$"?
Assuming you can always write $f(X) = g(X)h(X)$ is a very strong assumption (see irreducible polynomials)
 
10:49 PM
@Danu nice link
 
Then, why does $g(X)$ being "solvable for $X$" imply that $X = g^{-1}(X)$?
Sorry, but it really doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Hi
 
And, finally: it seems incredibly fishy that you start with 3 axioms to define something, then at the very end you replace one axiom by another and add a fourth.
 
hi chat
 
Hi @Semiclassical
 
10:55 PM
@Danu i have always wondered why he dresses like david copperfield or something
"that tie tho"
 
Oooh, Cédric
He's getting an honorary PhD from my university in October or so
(I want to know why he wears the damn spider brooches)
 
i dunno man, that man's weird
he came to a nearby uni last year and gave a talk. (i didn't get the chance to attend)
 
Well, here's another chance to attend a talk given by him: wet.kuleuven.be/advancedcuriosity/az-cedric-villani/…
 
> Mathematics is sexy
 
^this
 
11:02 PM
@SteamyRoot I probably won't go to Belgium any time soon.
Sorry about that
 
Shame, you're missing out on good beer :P
Anyways, night
 
Night
 
11:21 PM
Hey everyone!
 
Hi @Dami
 
How's it going?
 
Good, I guess.
I'm sticking to weight loss plan which is good
 
Nice
 
already lost a pound
what about you?
 
11:27 PM
i should stick to a sanity loss plan
not that i'm not already on it
 
11:43 PM
0
Q: Defining a field of rational functions not with $(+, \cdot)$ but with $(\cdot, \circ)$ ad infinitum...

Fruitful ApproachLet $(k, +, \cdot)$ be a field. Then associate this field to another field $K = (\star, \cdot)$, where $K$ is defined recursively (that's the easiest way seemingly): $$ a,b,c \in k, \ f,g \in K \implies \\ $$ (1)$ \ aX + b \in K$ (2) $f/g \in K, g \neq 0 $ (3) $f\cdot g \in K$ (4) $f\star g ...

Ask me if you want more details
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