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12:15 AM
My sleep schedule is permanently broken, it seems
 
Why?
 
I was heading to bed late for a couple days, and now I can't get sleep even if I try to.
 
Or did you only sleep in between those two messages. That be short indeed.
 
I tried to.
I was awake all night yesterday, getting some sleep today, in the evening. I think I am turning into a nocturnal creature.
 
Sorry to hear that. I kind of know that situation.
 
12:20 AM
Want to give some suggestions on how to fix? I have a two week long holiday ahead of me, I'll have to do what I can in that time.
 
For right away, maybe eat something that makes you sleepy.
 
On the math side of things, how goes it?
 
For general, try to get up early, somehow.
 
@quid Hmm, I guess I could do that.
 
Trying to finish some overdue things. Trying to find focus for some more creative things.
 
12:24 AM
Nice.
What kind of things, if I may ask?
 
Writing reports and reviews for the overdue things.
For the rest, trying to see which half-finished project looks most promising. (I work in number theory, conceived broadly)
Also thinking a bit about my course for next term. But I still procrastinate that a bit.
 
@quid Aha.
 
What about you?
 
evening chat
 
Well, stuff. I am studying topology, mostly differential for now.
 
12:32 AM
Hi
I am taking a class on convex optimization. I am confused on conjugate functions.
I am looking for a geometric and intuitive explanation of the conjugate function and how it maps to the below analytical formula.

$$ f^*(y)= sup_{x \in dom f } (y^Tx-f(x))$$
 
@BalarkaSen this is a weak spot of mine. I always intend to learn something more about that but not yet.
 
Yes, admittedly not much of number theory interact with topology.
Interact as in interact directly anyway. One way or another any pair of branches of mathematics overlap, but yeah.
 
12:47 AM
oh, hey, legendre transform
 
What about it?
 
that's the formula that was quoted above
legendre transform of $f(x)$ with respect to $y$
 
Oh. Sorry. I was not paying enough attention.
 
1:35 AM
crap I forgot my AMS login info
@Semiclassical My supervisor has told me 3 times to do something I've already done
How do I tell him to stop asking me to do it
AMS why won't you let me spend money
I add stuff to my cart and then it disappears
 
even AMS hates you
 
aha, 6th time's the charm
 
 
4 hours later…
5:42 AM
Let $\sf IVect$ be the category of vector spaces with only isomorphisms. I think $V^{\otimes n}$ can be interpreted as the image of $(V,\Bbb R^n)$ under a bifunctor $\sf Vect\times IVect\to Vect$ (contravariant in the second variable). Call it $(V,W)\mapsto V^W$.
In particular, $W=\Bbb R^n$ is the standard $S_n$-rep, so $V^W$ is also an $S_n$-rep; the trivial-rep isotypic component is $S^n(V)$ and the sign-rep isotypic component is $\Lambda^n(V)$ (and more generally for arbitrary $S_n$-reps' isotypic components and Schur functors).
 
 
2 hours later…
7:24 AM
Hmm, wonder if $\sf Set\times Bij\to Set$ and $\sf Vect\times IVect\to Vect$ make a commutative square with the free functor $\sf Set\to Vect$ (which obviously restricts to $\sf Bij\to IVect$ as well).
 
Hi @arctictern how are you?
 
aight
still petrolling I see
 
yup :-)
gotta keep the fire alive
 
 
2 hours later…
9:13 AM
Guys, have a look at this question: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1874736/…
 
the nontrivial part is the upper right hand corner
if the lower left corner were shaded too there would be a nice argument by rearrangement and such
(that was meant to be unshaded right?)
(or equivalently the nontrivial part is the lower left hand corner, if you look at it bububu's way)
@TheArtist you did calculate the answer using integration at least right? to see if the answer came out simple?
dunno why you're not responding
 
9:42 AM
@arctictern sorry I was away. The answer is approximately 19.50395.
 
decimal approximation irrelevant to my point
nice closed form suggests fun proof. bad closed form suggests integration necessary.
 
@arctictern $90−18.75\pi−25\cdot \arctan\left(\frac 12\right) \approx 19.50395$
 
@BalarkaSen There is. I wrote one down yesterday. It's only a couple of lines and does not use more than the definition of an H-space and the cohomology ring of $S^2$. The idea is just to play around what happens to the generator if one pulls it back via the multiplication map. Using the homotopy unit, one can easily derive a contradiction.
 
@arctictern you don't need integration at all.
 
9:57 AM
What do we need? @TheArtist
 
geometry, skull
 
 
3 hours later…
Huy
1:02 PM
hey, does anyone have access to this article? even after logging in via my institution, I can't access it
 
Nope
@Semiclassical Would you happen to be familiar with calculus of variations
 
Huy
@0celo7: baby calculus of variations as in mechanics or mathematical calculus of variations ?
 
Mathematical
 
Huy
ok no that's too much analysis for me
 
I actually need a geometric analyst, but I don't want to wait until next week to talk to my advisor
 
Huy
1:09 PM
is there even a geometric analyst who frequents this chat ?
 
No, Ted might know though.
Mike would know
I have a functional that I'm pretty sure blows up for "most" functions, and I'm wondering if I can do calculus of variations on it
Or maybe I have to restrict attention to some Sobolev space and they're just not mentioning it
And of course the article they reference can't be found
I'll have to see if we have old Annals of Math journals in the library
 
Huy
1:33 PM
anyone have access to this ?
ok, got it
 
Huy
1:48 PM
@0celo7: do you have access to AMS stuff
 
Perhaps?
I'm a member
 
Huy
@0celo7: can you try this ?
 
They want me to buy it
 
Huy
don't do it
 
I wasn't
$44.80 for members
 
Huy
1:50 PM
I need thm 1.3 from it
ofc google books excerpt stops at theorem 1.2 and then only shows the last page
 
did you try libgen
 
wow they want me to pay 28 dollars for an excerpt of up to 400 words
this should be illegal
 
Huy
yeah it's on libgen
but libgen is illegal
:(
 
libgen is better because you're not contributing to an immoral textbook racket
 
Huy
ok
ffs
I want to find a proof for a Lemma but it's always stated entirely different
in a language I don't understand
(math language)
 
1:54 PM
@SamuelYusim It's hardly immoral.
 
I'm willing to bet the author wishes it was easier for readers to get ahold of
 
Then he could put it on his website instead of publishing it via AMS.
 
Huy
does anyone know what a periodic diffeomorphism might be?
 
What spaces are you diffeomorphing
 
Huy
surfaces
 
1:59 PM
Well, the usual definition of periodicity would mean it's not a bijection
 
Huy
yeah so it must mean something entirely different
 
Is there some real parameter somewhere?
 
Huy
it's not an explicit map
 
geometric analysis is not even a tag here
I think it's MO domain in general...
But this is not an MO question
 
Huy
ok apparently a diffeo is called periodic if $F^n = id$ for some $n$
 
2:05 PM
Hmm, I'd call that the "order" of the map.
That terminology is used in Riemannian geometry, so maybe I'm biased.
 
Huy
this is so weird
 
why
 
Huy
in one article the guy writes down the theorem with assertion $F$ an isometry, for a proof he gives reference of his other article and in the other article, $F$ is a periodic diffeo
why should an isometry be the same as a periodic diffeo?
have I gone crazy
 
It shouldn't
Take translation of the plane
 
Huy
it's a hyperbolic surface
but yeah it still shouldn't
 
2:09 PM
Oh...rotation by an irrational hyperbolic angle?
I dunno
 
Huy
oh well
the isometry group of a hyperbolic surface is apparently finite
 
@Huy I know that an isometry of finite order on a Riemannian manifold with nonpositive curvature has a fixed point
 
Huy
ok so in other words I have gone crazy
I didn't remember that the isometry group is always finite
 
2:27 PM
hey
quick question
can i prove principal log is holomorphiic without computing the partials of $ln|z| +iArgz$ with maybe a polar coordinates?
 
2:39 PM
@ManolisLyviakis what is the definition of principal log?
 
3:12 PM
$Logz=ln|z|+i Argz$ where Argz is the principal argument of z on [-π,π] the problem is that the principal argument is a multy branched function because it is the arctan(x,y) depending on the sign of x,y
@LeakyNun
 
@ManolisLyviakis But is $\arg(z)$ holomorphic?
 
principal argument is a well defined function on [-π,π] does not spit out infinite numbers also it is total differntiable as a function on $R^2$ only thing to check is the rieman cauchy eq. I can do that with brute calculations not many different cases to take.I was just wondering if it can be done fater maybe uing polar coordinates so not to examine all the cases but i dont think it is possible
faster*
 
 
2 hours later…
5:11 PM
@ManolisLyviakis maybe prove log(z) is holomorphic in a nbhd of 1, then use log(az)=log(a)+log(z) (for appropriate a,z)
 
Hi @arctictern
 
5:51 PM
@LeakyNun: Real and imaginary parts of a holomorphic function are never holomorphic :P
Hi @Balarka @arctic
 
Hi Ted.
It's quiet here today.
 
I think there is a vector space construction $V^W$ with $\dim(V^W)=\dim(V)^{\dim(W)}$
 
An interesting discussion arose when I was talking to my former student at his REU about his project. We were talking about metrics on 3-manifolds with an $\Bbb R$-action.
tern, by $V^W$ you mean all functions $W\to V$?
 
@arctictern Something hom(V, W).
 
5:52 PM
nope
 
But that doesn't have the right cardinality.
 
$\dim\hom(V,W)=\dim(V)\cdot\dim(W)$
 
You mean $L(W,V)$?
So what do you mean, sir?
 
I mean what I said. Unfortunately I don't have a coordinate-free description of what $V^W$ should be.
 
@TedShifrin He means one can make a vector space V^W out of V and W which has that cardinality.
Make as in make naturally.
 
5:54 PM
For instance, when $W=\Bbb R^n$ the vector space $V^W$ should be $V^{\otimes n}$
 
$V^{\otimes \dim W}$???
 
Oh, so nothing to do with maps. I hate the notation, then.
 
@SamuelYusim More than that, I believe $V^W$ should be functorial in $V$ and $W$ (as long as the latter is restricted to the subcategory with only isomorphisms)
 
It's also very asymmetric in $V$ and $W$, i.e., depends only on the cardinality of $W$, but on $V$ as a vector space?
 
huh Ted?
 
5:55 PM
Is what I wrote not functorial?
 
@Samuel Not on $W$, is it?
 
It doesn't capture the information of W being a vector space at all.
 
of course it's asymmetric in $V^W$. so is the binary operation $x^y$ for numbers $x$ and $y$
 
So you want it dependent on the vector space structure of both $V$ and $W$? And in the finite case, the only characterization of a vector space is its dimension? So $V^W$ would only be defined up to isomorphism?
I didn't mean symmetric in that way, tern. I meant that you seemed to be using only the dimension of $W$ in your example, whereas we needed to know what $V$ was as a vector space.
 
5:57 PM
Hello peeps
 
So I think my question up there is a reasonable one. Is your $V^W$ defined only up to isomorphism?
hi 0celo.
 
the reason I believe this is because the category of vector spaces with isomorphisms is equivalent to the groupoid $\bigsqcup_n GL(n)$ (viewing groups as one-object categories), and there is indeed a functor ${\sf Vect}\times\bigsqcup_n GL(n)\to \sf Vect$ satisfying these requirements
I should also mention $V^W$ should be contravariant in $W$
 
and covariant in $V$, presumably.
 
Yeah
@arctictern What's the functor?
 
contrary to classical tensor terminology, of course, which is ass-backwards
 
5:59 PM
the reason I noticed this is because $V^{\otimes n}$ is naturally a right $GL(n)$-module. for instance when $n=2$, $$(v\otimes w)[\begin{smallmatrix}a&b\\c&d\end{smallmatrix}]=(av+cw)\otimes(bv+dw). $$
 
@TedShifrin Or is categorical terminology backwards
 
0celo, no it truly is not backwards. Co- [=with] goes in the same direction, contra- [=against] backwards.
 
Oh
@TedShifrin Do you know anything about the energy of a smooth function between Riemannian manifolds?
 
I know the definition, but I've never worked with this stuff much.
 
Ok, I'm stuck on the definition, there's too many bundles and metrics and indices and I'm confused
 
6:02 PM
There are lots of books that discuss this.
 
Specifically, they want me to view the differential of $f:M\to N$ as $\mathrm df=\frac{\partial f^i}{\partial x^\alpha}\mathrm dx^\alpha\otimes \frac{\partial}{\partial f^i}$
i.e. a section of $T^*M\otimes f^*TN$
 
They had better not be writing $\partial/\partial f^i$. I would throw such a source out the window immediately.
Ugh.
 
That's the part that's confusing me
 
I don't know what they mean
 
6:03 PM
@0celo7 This is clear though.
 
Maybe for you
Please don't use that phrase around me
 
$df$ is a bundle homomorphism $TM \to TN$.
 
If I'm asking for help, it's not clear to me
 
Bundle homomorphisms $E \to E'$ over $B$ are the same as sections of the hom bundle $\hom(E, E')$.
 
Do you understand what $f^*TN$ is?
Careful, @Balarka. There's a pullback.
 
6:04 PM
Yes, we're pulling back the tangent bundles to the same base, aren't we?
 
We're pulling the tangent bundle of the target back so that we have a bundle on $M$, @0celo.
 
@TedShifrin Yes, the definition in Bott & Tu is quite clear (unlike the one in Jost, from which this energy stuff is coming from)
@TedShifrin I understand
 
@0celo7 It's not clear to me what was your question, the indices thing or the other thing.
*It was.
 
So work through the example of an embedded submanifold $f\colon M\to N$. Think of it terms of $\Bbb R^k$ sitting inside $\Bbb R^n$.
 
Oh, work calls. I'll be back in a bit.
 
6:06 PM
@Balarka: The request to avoid words like "trivial," "obvious," and "clear" in mathematics is a valid and good one. :)
7
 
Fair, fair, sorry.
 
Usually uttered when the speaker can't be bothered to actually explain it (or cannot).
 
True. I thought 0celo knew that since he asked something from Bott-Tu before where the bundle homomorphism & sections of the hom bundle thing was used.
Didn't think it was the question. Apologies.
 
6:27 PM
Hello. I'm a bit confused as to these two definitions for Householder reflectors I'm getting. The first states that "A Matrix of the form: $P = I - 2uu^{T}$ is a householder reflector. And another defines it as: $F = I - 2\frac{vv^{T}}{v^{T}v}$, where $v$ is computed as: $v = sign(x_{1}) ||x||_{2} e_{1} + x$, then $v = \frac{v}{||v||_{2}}$. Are these supposed to be the same?
Because it seems that the difference is that one is divided by $v^{T}v$, and the other isn't.
 
if $v$ is normalized then isn't $v^Tv=1$?
 
Huy
@Owatch: the first one probably already assumes that $u$ is a unit vector, the second doesn't (and hence divides by the norm)
 
Oh, that would explain it then.
Do you also see what is being done here, where they seem to use the definition of a reflector: $P = I - 2uu^{T}$ to say that an operation $Px$ is effectively equal to $x - u(2u^{T} x)$
 
It seems to make sense, but why are the parentheses grouping the 2 in there, and the order changed.
Doesn't matter
 
6:41 PM
no idea why they moved 2 back
but yeah $uu^T$ basically extracts the $u$-component of $x$, so subtracting $uu^Tx$ once from $x$ deletes the $u$-component, while subtracting it twice negates the $u$-component
maybe they put the $2$ there because they wanted to group scalars ($2$ and $u^Tx$ both being scalars)
 
Thanks, perhaps that is why.
 
@arctictern Do you find this strange? Universal cover of RP^2 v RP^2 is an infinite string of spheres wedged togather, not the wedge of two spheres. They are not even homotopy equivalent. Universal cover of RP^2 v S^2 is similarly wedge of three, not two, spheres. The answer then is wrong, no?
I am surprised nobody cared to comment.
 
hmm
so the map S^2 v S^2 -> RP^2 v RP^2 isn't a covering?
no, it isn't
 
Not near the wedge point.
 
yeah
cool
you should comment
 
6:56 PM
done.
 
Here's another difference I've seen quite a number of times which I'm not sure what to think of. I'm using a method for calculating $u$ as: $v = sign(x_{1}) || x ||_{2} e_{1} + x$. Then $v = \frac{v}{|| v ||_{2}}$ which should be the same as $u$. However, they calculate $u$ as: $ \frac{1}{ || x - sign(x_{1}) || x ||_{2} e_{1} || } \cdot \{ \{ x_{1} - sign(x_{1}) || x ||_{2} \}, \{x_{2} \}, ... \{x_{n}\}\}$. It's not quite the same.
They subtract from vector x, I add x to my result.
If I substitute $v = sign(x_{1}) ...$ into $v = \frac{v}{|| v ||_{2}}$, Its the same except for the placement of x and the operation.
but why..
 
disregard everything I said about $V^{\otimes n}$ being a right ${\rm GL}(n)$-module
 
somehow I got to that notion from the fact that the alternating map $V\times\cdots\times V\to\Lambda^nV$ is ${\rm SO}(n)$invariant, where ${\rm SO}(n)$ acts on $V\times\cdots\times V\cong V\otimes {\Bbb R}^n$ from the right in the way I previously described and trivially on $\Lambda^nV$
 
A good weekend users!!!
 
Huy
7:10 PM
it's Friday
 
Thanks, same to you :-)
TGIF
 
So is: $\frac{ x - sign(x_{1}) \lVert x \rVert e_{1}}{ \lVert x - sign(x_{1}) \lVert x \rVert e_{1} \rVert }$ the same as: $\frac{ sign(x_{1}) \lVert x \rVert + x}{ \lVert sign(x_{1}) \lVert x \rVert e_{1} + x \rVert }$ ?
Where x is a vector.
 
Hi @Krijn
 
Hey @Balarka
I just got offered a job interview :)
 
Nice, congrats
 
7:17 PM
Yeah, it seems like a fun job
 
What job, out of curiosity?
 
It's a mix of being a tutor, teacher and supervisor
You get called in where needed
 
So imagine a mathematics teacher falls ill in the neighborhood and the school can't find a substitute, they call this firm and I have to teach these kids
 
That's pretty interesting.
 
7:22 PM
Yeah, I hope so
Although I wonder how much high schoolers will care for me if I'm in front of a class
I mean, theoretically it's possible that the kids I'd teach would only be a year younger than me
 
You could try to pull a serious face.
 
Yeah, I was an annoying kid myself, so I know most of the tricks
 
hah
 
It would be a good chance to be a role model for them :-)
 
Probably depends on whether you get called to work at a place called something like: Highgate Catholic Secondary School of Excellence or Trenton Juvenile Rehabilitation School for Triple Offenders.
 
7:26 PM
Oh, I wouldn't want to be in the second school to teach.
 
The second school would definitely be a lot of fun
Albeit not much math
 
If, of course, you can impress them.
 
@Sᴋᴜʟʟᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ In my experience, high schoolers rarely care for "role" "models".
 
For those students that would like to study anything STEM, I could give them really good advice though
Much better advice than most teachers, I guess
 
...and what experience would that be @BalarkaSen?
 
7:30 PM
Being a high schooler myself. :P
 
I would say as a high schooler, that my role models were either other students or public figures.
 
Well, I guess some do care, as long as it's a movie star or a popstar or ... something.
I'd rather not elaborate further on my list.
 
Of course I liked teachers, but teaching isn't something I want to do. And the only teachers who tried to "impress" anything were teachers for subjects I didn't really have any interest in, like English.
 
Ok, how about someone worthy of your competition :P
 
?
 
7:36 PM
Back
@TedShifrin Are you still around?
 
Good luck with the interview @Krijn
 
@BalarkaSen Do you know what is meant by $\partial/\partial f^i$ in this context?
@Krijn What
I thought you're a grad student
@BalarkaSen Actress ;)
 
@0celo7 To be honest, no. Maybe it's a weird way of writing local coordinates in $f^* TN$.
 
That was my though, too. What's the explicit formula for those thought?
 
Yeah, it is.
Recall what $f^*TN$ is.
You looking at a chart $U$ in $N$, the bundle over it, then associate that with $f^{-1}(U)$ in $M$.
So local coordinates should be $(f^1, f^2, \cdots, f^n)$, not?
 
7:46 PM
$f^*TN=\{(p,v)\in M\times TN\mid f(p)=\pi (v)\}$.
@BalarkaSen Hmm, I don't think I'm comfortable with what the $f^i$s are.
 
Yes, but let's try to see it concretely. We have a map $f : M \to N$, $TN$ sits over $N$. Take a small chart $U$ in $N$ over which $TN$ trivializes. Then define $f^*TN$ to trivialize over $f^{-1}(U)$ (and then define the transition functions appropriately). That's what $f^*TN$ is, yeah?
 
Are they the coordinate representations of $f$ in a chart of $N$?
 
So we have $M \supset f^{-1}(U) \to U \subset N \to TN$.
 
@BalarkaSen Yeah
 
You know that $U \to TN$ is $(x^1, \cdots, x^n, \partial/\partial x^1, \cdots, \partial/\partial x^n)$. Now precompose with $f : f^{-1}(U) \to U$ and rewrite the coordinates.
@0celo7 Yep.
 
7:51 PM
Jost says that $f^*E$ is the bundle with bundle charts $(\varphi\circ f,f^{-1}U)$, where $E$ has charts $(\varphi,U)$.
 
Yes, which is what I said.
 
@BalarkaSen Precompose?
 
$f^{-1}(U) \stackrel{f}{\to} U \to TN$.
 
Oh, oh
Rewrite which coordinates?
 
You know coordinate representation of each of those maps in the composition. Write down a coordinate representation of the composition.
 
7:54 PM
Ohhhh
I think
$f:f^{-1}U\to U$ is just $(f^1(p),\dotsc, f^n(p))$, $p\in f^{-1}U$.
 
Mhm.
 
But what the heck does the next map do
 
Well, I wrote it down above, didn't I?
 
Plugging things in naively gives $(f^1,\dotsc, f^n,\partial/\partial f^1,\dotsc,\partial/\partial f^n)$
But what is $\partial/\partial f^i$
 
Yes. That's what they mean.
 
7:56 PM
Is it just $\partial/\partial x^i$ evaluated at $f(p)$?
 
Yes.
 
Alrighty
Thanks
 
No problem.
 
you can calculate the energy of a map $S^2\to M$ in cartesian coordinates using stereographic projection
 
@0celo7 I am
It's a side job for students
 
7:59 PM
@Krijn how old are you?
>21?
 
21.
 
I agree with Ted that it's weird notation. But they wanted to write in terms of the coordinates of $f$, because that's what pullback does.
 
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