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12:00 AM
@Balarka When its well enough approximated by its derivative projecting it onto a linear subspace and taking the straight line homotopy will be an isotopy. (i.e its a graph over some linear subspace (the subspace corresponding to the image of its derivative).
 
I see.
 
It's important to realize that the proof that Diff(M) acts transitively on points is actually a proof that Diff_0(M) (connected component of the identity) acts transitively on points. Or that proof would be useless at constructing isotopies.
 
0celo, not yet. Just a lot of stress and a lot of stuff being learned. Take a break and chill.
 
@TedShifrin Do you know anything about Federer's book?
 
GMT?
 
12:04 AM
No, Geom. Measure Theory.
 
I think linear algebra is a prereq to that.
 
That's what I said.
LOL @PVAL
 
So the topological difficulty of contracting the disk is resolved by using the annulus theorem, which says that the difference of the larger and the smaller disk is topologically a sphere cross interval, so one can contract along the interval factor.
 
It's not GTM.
 
Read what I wrote :)
 
12:05 AM
I'm dyslexic.
@PVAL-inactive Doutbful.
 
Anyhow, it's totally encyclopedic and unreadable. But I actually had to use a version of Sard's Theorem in my research that I found only in Federer's encyclopedia.
 
Unreadable? Ok, for once you agree with my advisor :)
 
And you need to know all of real analysis and most linear algebra for it.
Not to mention functional analysis.
 
@PVAL-inactive Agreed.
 
PDEs.
 
12:06 AM
@BalarkaSen Essentially it can be done in a lot of ways all involving some nontrivial business with point set topology. The classical way I think is showing surfaces have linear triangulations and hence smooth structures.
 
@TedShifrin It's very relevant to my advisor's work (curvature flow), but he said it was very hard.
 
I bet classically everything is done just using triangulations.
 
But not every manifold does, so that would be specific to surfaces.
 
Yes the proof is specific to surfaces.
The 4-dimensional case is very very hard.
 
Yeah. Federer did great mathematics, but he is a horrible expositor. I heard him lecture at a summer AMS meeting on geometric measure theory, and I spent the whole time wishing one of my former professors at Berkeley/StonyBrook were giving the talks. Great, great expositor.
 
12:10 AM
@BalarkaSen The higher dimensional case is essentially the h-cobordism theorem for topological manifolds.
 
I wonder if for higher dimensions I can apply h-cobordism to prove the annulus theorem.
 
Balarka ... to bed !!
LOL ... now that you psyched what PVAL just said.
 
I am currently doing double integrals. This is harder than the QM exam :(
 
Don't be ashamed to be good at calculating things, 0celo. It's a virtue.
 
I think though theres a lot of work (which I don't understand) in going from Smale's proof to a proof in the topological category. You have to show they have topological handlebody structures I guess.
 
12:11 AM
@TedShifrin I didn't take calc 3 so this is actually challenging.
 
Yeah, I don't know why it holds in the TOP category either
 
@0celo: You really should watch my lectures, altogether.
 
I admittedly haven't actually read the smooth proof
 
If I can't do this integral, I will.
 
Well if you are reading Milnor's morse theory.
 
12:12 AM
But like I said, I understand LA just fine.
I get freaked out by tests is all.
 
Reading his notes on the proof is a good followup to that.
I did that my summer of my first year in grad school.
 
Back, hello all
 
@TedShifrin Sorry, not watching them :)
 
Hi again, @Brody
 
Hey there @TedShifrin. I got the notif from earlier, how are you?
 
12:14 AM
I'm doing pretty well ... How're you progressing?
 
@PVAL-inactive Not really reading Morse theory right now, but thanks, plan to do that. I'll note that down as a future project.
 
Soon Balarka will get to college and not have to deal with us anymore.
 
@TedShifrin In regards to what? >->
 
Your learning, of course ...
 
@BalarkaSen Let me know if you figure out the proof of Thm 3.5.
 
12:15 AM
It's meh. I've yet to start your book tbh
But now that I'm free from my fast-food job, I should have plenty of free time for self-study now @TedShifrin
 
Meh? Huh? Really?
 
@TedShifrin Why not? :)
 
Oh, fast-food jobs must suck.
You'll be too busy taking graduate courses, @Balarka :)
Except maybe you have to still take non-math things in uni there. In the US people do. Maybe not in India.
 
Not doing that in college. I'll take analysis and linear algebra courses first.
 
Oh good grief. You should try to take some exemption exams.
Otherwise you'll be as bored then as you are now.
 
12:18 AM
Well there are some uni's where non-math stuff aren't a necessity (or that there aren't too many of them, I am not familiar).
 
I agree you should know stuff solidly.
 
@BalarkaSen Absolutely do not waste your time doing that.
 
In the US there is an emphasis on general well-roundedness. Not so true in Europe. I actually am in favor of it.
 
Does @BalarkaSen know analysis at the level of Rudin?
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, food service is generally not great, but it has its bright spots. Just doesn't pair well with full-time academic plans in my experience
 
12:19 AM
@MikeM: What they'll let him skip isn't up to him, necessarily. But I agree he should take some exemption tests.
 
You can take graduate analysis and write a thesis while learning about Marxism-Leninism on the side.
@PVAL-inactive Yes.
 
lol!
 
Not all, @PVAL.
Mike and I clearly disagree.
 
But I also think it's a waste of time to take an n-hour course when you can pick up whatever you're missing in n/10 hours.
 
But I will encourage Balarka to be aggressive when he gets there.
I understand, @Brody. Nothing fun in the actual classes you're taking?
 
12:21 AM
This is a really nice question. I have an approach I'm having trouble working out.
 
Yeah, it should follow from the embedding into the Jacobian by the Abel map.
 
@TedShifrin I'm coming to enjoy Probability & Inference Methods, despite it being rote and drone-ish (the exposure alone is enough to spark interest)
but my Linear Algebra class is not quite fun at all
 
I'm sorry :(
Probability is something we should all know better. I'm glad you're learning it.
 
Thanks for that
As for LA, that's why I have your book! @TedShifrin
 
@Ted Is it obvious that N only depends on g?
 
12:23 AM
I'll try to pass along some more challenging linear algebra, @Brody, if you tell me where you are :P
 
@MikeMiller I am not sure if it'd be a waste of time; I'd want to spend more time on what I haven't spent more time on. But maybe I'll leave the decision for some other time since it's obviously not an immediate worry
 
GO TO BED, Balarka.
 
What time is it in India?
 
On the other hand I have already been exposed to some of Marxism-Leninism
oh right its about 6
 
Yeah, but you haven't studied Trumpism yet.
 
12:24 AM
I sort of think in general in undergrad and the beginning of grad, you should take the most advanced courses you can survive in.
 
Marx was broke, Trump isn't.
I know who wins.
 
Charlie Sheen?
 
Trump isn't only because he keeps declaring bankruptcy.
I'm not sure what's obvious, @PVAL.
 
What kind of loser hasn't declared at least 4 times?
 
@TedShifrin trust me, we've got a few Trumpists around this part of the world too
 
12:26 AM
@PVAL-inactive I think this did me well and would have done me better had I stuck to it.
 
Oh, I love such rationalization.
Heya @Fargle :)
 
@TedShifrin Here's a more topological approach. 1) This is obviously true for any fixed Riemann surface. One way of seeing this is to write $S^1$ as approximated by an increasing union of finite sets. If it fixes the infinite union of those, it fixes the circle, and is trivial. 2) Show that if the question is true for a surface in $\mathcal M_{g}$, it's also true for nearby surfaces. Now extend this fact to a choice of compactification of the moduli space.
(2) is the hard part, and also doesn't give an effective bound.
 
Where did $S^1$ come from, @MikeM?
 
Hi again, @Ted! I remember a few hours ago saying something about trying to read more, and here I am having just played a few hours of Morrowind.
 
I love that game
 
12:27 AM
You're in an intellectual vacuum, @Fargle.
 
@TedShifrin I picked a circle.
 
Where does that get you, @MikeM?
 
If an automorphism of a Riemann surface fixes a circle, it fixes everything.
 
@PVAL I find it still engages and surprises me a decade after my first playthrough.
 
12:27 AM
OH.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, and like most vacuums, it sucks. :3
 
Those two websites will greatly improve your experience.
 
I think you're being a bad influence, PVAL.
 
I haven't played Morrowind in a while. I probably should.
 
12:28 AM
You may have known about them.
 
rolls all 9 of 8 eyes
 
@MikeMiller I could never get started there.
So slow!
 
I don't care.
 
Literally, my character was so slow.
Sorry Mr. Grouch.
 
One of the mods on btb's list improves starting running speed!
Also theres the jump effect so you can move faster than literally any other game imaginable.
 
12:29 AM
resigns
 
I need my video games back.
 
NOOOOOO you don't, @Balarka. Watch a good movie or read a good book.
Better yet, get some sleep.
 
@TedShifrin Hobbies change, old man.
 
Ted is an old man, he's just anti-tech.
 
So @TedShifrin, I have test Friday on vector spaces. Anything up to quality I can absorb for use in a couple nights?
 
12:30 AM
I'm going to rise above here for a second and pull out my math...
 
I gave it all to a friend once
and he never returned
 
Not exactly anti-tech, but I prefer socialization with people to socialization with a game-boy.
 
There are enjoyable, engaging and rewarding (at least as much as any other form of entertainment) video games.
 
@TedShifrin Actual over virtual, eh?
 
95% of the time I'm playing games it's in a room with another person.
 
12:31 AM
This generation has no people skills.
 
@0celo7 Certainly there are benefits to neo-Ludditism. @Ted's philosophy seems more Bradbury than Amish.
 
People go out to dinner together and text one another across the table. Seriously.
 
That's not actually true.
 
LOL @Fargle
 
My parents text at the table when they take me out to dinner.
 
12:32 AM
Each other?
 
No.
 
@0celo7 you're an exception
 
@BalarkaSen Waiting for insult.
 
They're rude, irregardless.
 
I was raised in a very traditional circumstance. Grandparents will still ask my cousins, invariably at least 25 years old, to put the phones away at the table.
All is not lost. ;)
 
12:33 AM
But you can always spot the toddler playing on their parents' tablet at restaurants
 
That's OK, Fargle.
 
I don't use phones much, and I stopped playing video games like 5 years ago
 
G'morning, @Balarka.
 
I don't have people skills either tho
 
Besides, my main distraction of late hasn't been video games so much as decorated small pieces of cardboard.
 
12:34 AM
@TedShifrin lol, morning.
 
I think my affinity for mathematics is at least partially indebted to video games. So I guess they are pretty life-ruining.
 
Anyway I don't understand any of the standard compactifications well enough to carry out my proposal.
 
The worst offense in this generation is sandals with socks, or sandals with long pants and long sleeves.
Or both.
 
I highly doubt either is the worst.
But I won't give them gay cards.
 
...what?
 
12:35 AM
No sense of style.
But hardly an earth-shattering offense.
 
what about militant islam or prescription drug abuse?
 
I used to think shorts and long-sleeve tops looked funny. Now I wear them occasionally.
 
@0celo7 I always thought the socks-with-sandals thing was a dad stereotype.
 
I use sandals, but not with socks
 
@Fargle No, all the sorority girls do it.
 
12:36 AM
I've seen that, too, @Brody.
 
And the big thing for guys is long white tube socks.
 
Go fraternities boys and sorority girls. Rulers of the ... bar.
 
Of course, your career has been with college students @TedShifrin
 
Yup, @Brody.
 
@Brody Yeah, when I moved to America I thought people were weird as hell for doing that.
 
12:37 AM
Now I tutor 2nd to 8th graders :)
 
When I moved to Germany originally I was made fun of for doing that.
Now I do it again.
 
I've gotten so used to the peculiarities now.
One might even argue that styles are becoming ever so slightly more unisex
 
Anyone know about jointly varying random variables?
 
Yes.
 
Suppose I have two random variables $X,Y$ with jpdf $f_{X,Y}(x,y)$, which is nonzero for $0\le x\le 1$ and $0\le y\le 1-x$.
 
12:39 AM
Oh, that's quite a leap @TedShifrin
 
LOL, @Brody.
 
When I compute the $Y$ PDF, will the range be $0\le y\le 1$?
 
I don't have any intention of talking about them, though.
 
What's distressing is how many kids are trying to do more complex arithmetic and have to do basic addition/subtraction on their fingers. The hell with knowing basic multiplication facts.
 
@0celo7 He just said that someone knows.
 
12:40 AM
GO TO BED, BALARKA.
 
@BalarkaSen Ok, and if someone wants to answer, someone will answer.
 
@0celo: Range?
 
@TedShifrin Buuut, the elementary levels could really use some brighter, more holistic teachers who know all corners of the playing field (just imho)
 
@TedShifrin Well $f_Y(y)=\int_\Bbb R f_{X,Y}(x,y)dx$.
But for which $y$s is that true?
 
matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/11572/… I saw this question on MESE and my immediate thought was "how do I teach those students calculus?"
 
12:42 AM
Still, @Brody, I'm all in favor of the new standards even though everyone bitches. But kids are not learning anything by rote at all. I hate rote, but, seriously ...
 
@Ted I think I'm going to push through it today.
My sleep cycle is messed up beyond recognition
 
What do you mean, @0celo? Are you asking for the output of $f_Y$? Don't use the letter $y$.
 
@BalarkaSen That never works
 
@PVAL, and yet he keeps doing it.
 
@PVAL It worked well for me the couple times I actually did it
 
12:43 AM
You have to set a timer for yourself and force yourself awake early
 
He never goes to sleep
 
@TedShifrin New standards, huh?
 
@TedShifrin No, no. I have $f_{X,Y}=$ something for $x$ and $y$ in that triangle I gave.
 
Like after 5 hours of sleep until youre back on schedule
 
And otherwise it's $0$.
 
12:43 AM
I understand that, 0celo.
 
I'm asking for which $y$ the formula for $f_Y(y)$ holds.
Because we integrate over $x$
 
@PVAL That just splits my sleep cycle in two, making it not homologous to the previous one. Which is bad.
 
That's the definition for all $y$.
 
Pushing through it only possibly works if you are not alone or else you will fall asleep as soon as you get into some place you can. Even then it just messes you up.
 
So $0\le y\le 1-x$ doesn't work.
 
12:44 AM
@PVAL-inactive It's worked for me.
 
I've had plenty of issues with my sleep cycle.
 
Right, I think I am going to go to my grandmother's today. More noise to keep me awake.
 
If you guys had less numerous homology, your sleep cycles wouldn't cause such problems.
 
I only have the singular one.
 
That makes no sense, 0celo. $x$ is an unbound variable at this point.
 
12:45 AM
Mike's got all the crazy ones.
 
LOL, @PVAL.
 
hahaha
 
@PVAL-inactive It's by far more-often-than-not failed for me. Maybe some people have better endurance.
 
They're older and wiser, @Brody.
Well, older, anyhow.
 
@PVAL-inactive Surely you've tried to use HF now and then?
 
12:46 AM
Well in my case, certainly wiser also @TedShifrin
 
Not to say that mine aren't more bullshit than HF.
 
What a terrible book. Of course only the easy exercises have the answers in the book.
 
I reserve judgment, @Brody.
 
lol
 
@MikeMiller Well I haven't yet proven anything with HF. Though I'm still writing the things I have proven.
 
12:47 AM
@MikeMiller Speaking of which, did you ever find a reference/find time for finding a reference for the punctured sphere homology thing? Defining the boundary map was troublesome, IIRC
 
@TedShifrin Exactly. I'm very confused.
 
What is the precise statement of the problem, 0celo?
 
@MikeMiller Well yours in the cases I'm interested in probably don't depend on GC.
 
Let me take a peak at your multivar text @TedShifrin. Have a test on vector spaces soon and my teacher's lecture pdfs are poor
 
I love how MikeM and PVAL communicate in initials.
 
12:48 AM
To me that makes them significantly less bullshit.
 
For the following joint pdf, find $f_X(x)$ and $f_Y(y)$: $f_{X,Y}(x,y)=6x, 0\le x\le 1,0\le y\le 1-x$.
 
I understand HF, but not GC
 
Fine, @0celo, just do the single integrals.
 
Hydrofluoric acid?
 
Heegaard Floer
 
12:49 AM
Giroux correspondenc
 
Ah, Giroux :)
Ex MIT, now Bezerkley.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, I got $f_X(x)=6x(1-x),0\le x\le 1$.
 
OK.
 
And $f_Y(y)=3$, but I don't know for which $y$ that is.
Certainly not $0\le y\le 1$, because that's not normalized.
 
That one is wrong.
 
12:51 AM
$\int_0^1 6x\, dx=3$, no?
 
You have to integrate $f_{XY}(x,y)dx$ over what interval? NOOOOOOOOO
 
Oh
 
@ted He's at ihes I think.
 
Aha
 
Seriously, @PVAL. He was still on Berkeley's website last time I looked.
 
12:52 AM
@TedShifrin Over $[0,1-y]$ , right?
 
Right.
 
So $3(y-1)^2$.
 
@Ted Sorry ens-Lyon
 
OK, for $0\le y\le 1$.
Permanently, @PVAL? Oh, I'm being a dummy
 
Right, but why?
 
12:53 AM
I think so.
 
I confused Auroux and Giroux. I need to go eat dinner and go play bridge. My apologies.
Because if $y$ is out of that range, $f_{XY}(x,y)=0$. @0celo
 
Oh, under the integral. Yeah, makes sense I guess.
Thanks.
 
G'night, all.
 
@TedShifrin Intuitively why does parallel translating the tangent vector along lattitude rotate it around?
Oh, g'night.
 
12:54 AM
@Ted I have had some problems with Auroux's expositions in my field.
 
Because staying tangent is not parallel, so you have to turn to compensate ...
 
@TedShifrin Oo, great! Your first chapter seems to be on the stuff we're doing now. Perhaps I'll get started
 
He seems to be a star teacher, @PVAL.
LOL, @Brody. Keep in touch.
 
And thanks. gn, Ted
 
@TedShifrin Well the covariant derivative of the tangent field is the normal vector to the lattitude, so not normal to the surface. But why rotate?
 
12:55 AM
He may be, but I have read a few things by him which were on the cusp of exposition and research which I had a lot of difficulty understanding.
 
I don't see the physical significance.
 
To cancel that vector out, @Balarka. Also see the remark on p. 71.
I have no personal experience, @PVAL.
The covariant derivative points up the sphere, @Balarka, so you must rotate down to cancel it out and get 0.
 
We can continue this tomorrow.
(Tomorrow for me ... God knows what for you.)
 
I got it though, that remark worked.
Bye.
 
12:57 AM
This is something I repeated literally a dozen times in class every time I taught it.
(with lots of pictures, of course)
Bye.
 
Admittedly there's very few people who write those kind of things and they are usually hard to understand.
I remember one case where I read something he gave an algebraic topological proof of the existence of almost complex structures on symplectic manifolds (you can possibly guess what the proof was) which confused me for a long time because it didn't give me any control in coordinates (the "right" proof certainly does).
 
I'm also gone, c'yaz
 
@PVAL He's written a few which I found very helpful.
 
This is also biased as to when I read these things and so on.
@MikeMiller I think my undergrad who I am supervising their reading might be able to prove taut implies LO by the end of the semester.
 
I actually don't know what the "right" proof is. I only know the one you're saying I can guess.
@BalarkaSen I have no idea what that means.
@PVAL: Yeah it's just Uhlenbeck.
 
1:07 AM
The proof which shows that by singular value decomposition the compatible almost complex structures are equivalent to fixing a metric.
 
@MikeMiller Here
 
So you can use things like partitions of unity and convexity arguments in the latter and translate that over to almost complex structures.
 
Are all metrics compatible in the appropriate sense?
 
@BalarkaSen The points aren't fixed, there are no orientations, and it's isotopy of the whole configuration.
I never thought about the problem though.
 
1:10 AM
Ok, that's what I guessed.
 
In particular to prove say symplectic non-squeezing, you need to show that for any symplectic embedding of a ball $B^2n \into M$ there exists a compatibile almost complex structure which is the standard holomorphic structure on that ball.
 
Aha. I didn't know that.
 
This is very non-obvious to me to prove just using the bundle theory nonsense (technically mine is still bundle theory nonsense but its better!)
 
@PVAL-inactive You can play the same game actually. By contractibility of stuff all the obstruction theory is automatically zero and you can extend that almost complex structure on the ball to one everywhere.
 
I think being able to have at least standard holomorphic structures is generally key to be able to counts J-hol curves in general.
 
1:12 AM
You don't even need to say obstruction theory. But I do agree that yours is cleaner for this purpose.
There seem to be a lot of symplectic topologists who much prefer to do the algebra than the topology or geometry or analysis.
 
Well there are people who just do Floer theory.
But I don't think that is most symplectic topologists.
 
Hi guys
 
I think for instance every descendant from YE for instance is certainly on the analytic/topological side.
 
Quick (dumb) question; is $e^x$ directly equivalent to $\text{exp}(x)$?
 
Probably every descendant of Hofer as well.
 
1:15 AM
Yeah that's fair. But a lot of the Fukaya category people frustrate me since they just like to make things more and more algebraic without thinking of any of the other issues.
Nto that my flavor of Floer homology is any safer. Or that I'm not writing something that does the same thing. Dang.
 
I don't really think of MS people as symplectic topologists.
I don't know of any MS people who call themselves symplectic topologists.
 
I guess they call themselves geometers.
 
often algebraic geometers.
I think when you are mainly interested in projective varieties this kind of manipulation with almost complex structures is probably less important.
 
I know a lot of people from Berkeley who think of themselves as symp. geometers.
 
Weinstein is very much on the topological/analytic side.
Hutchings is probably in between.
Nadler's pretty alg geom.
 
1:22 AM
Hutchings is in between. I like his work. Nadler is doing his own thing. I'm mainly thinking of Auroux's big family.
 
Shende is probably on the analytic/topological side he just doesn't know it.
Hes sort of a hard one to categorify.
 
I forgot he got a job there.
 
The algebra he does is not at all close to the algebra done by MS people.
 
I agree.
 
I think Oh's book was really helpful to me. He generally does things very analytically, and he is firmly on the side of the Fukaya category people.
 
1:30 AM
if I have the equation $x \mod 3 = x \mod 5$ how could I rearrange this (if possible) to $x \mod 15 = 0$. Also, the equals sign should obviously be the congruence symbol, but I don't know how to do that in LaTeX.
 
I've went to maybe 2-3 talks by students of Seidel, and I don't think I really understood any statement.
 
I actually like Seidel a lot. I don't know any of his students though.
His paper with Smith on involutions has been a big influence on me.
 
Any help would really be appreciated.
 
I've never really learned equivariant cohomology.
I got really confused by a series of talks by Hendricks I think for that reason.
That's probably similar to stuff in this Seidel-Smith paper.
 
That would be Kristen, yes. It is very similar. It's not far from equivalent.
I like her language a lot though.
 
1:34 AM
Or, actually, how could you do the inverse of $\mod 5$?
 
Kristen helped me a lot while she was at UCLA.
 
that would be even better to know how to do.
 
@PVAL-inactive Oh, I guess you mean the involutive talks.
 
(in the context of solving an equation, I mean.)
 
1:37 AM
heh
 
@MikeMiller, @PVAL-inactive, do you know where to find that information? Of how to find the inverse of $\mod 5$ to get the equation $x \mod 5 = x\mod 3$ to $x\mod 15 = 0$?
 
I don't really want to think about that right now. Sorry.
 
@MikeMiller, okay, sorry. =)
 
It seems like hes asking when a nonvanishing field is gradient-like.
That should be true at least locally, I don't know what happens that makes that start to fail.
 
@heather "the inverse of mod 5" is a nonsensical phrase
 
1:44 AM
I'm too brainded to think about anything right now.
 
@heather surely you mean x=0 mod 5 and x= 0 mod 3 implies x = 0 mod 15?
 
I'm sad.
Analysis is difficult. D:
 

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