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12:37 AM
@Ramanujan learn mathjax
 
12:54 AM
Is SE's time server in California?
I just realized transcripts are not listed in local time.
 
@DHMO hi,goodmorning
 
Hi
I'm trying to solve a proof, it's 2a.m a,d still nothing :/
 
@Mahmoud you mean you're trying to prove a theorem
 
Not exactly
I'm asked to prove that $3^n+1|(5^(3^n))+1$
 
what are you doing then
use {3n} instead of (3n)
 
1:04 AM
$3^n+1|(5^{3^n})+1$
 
yes, and you don't need the bracket
 
$3^n+1|5^{3^n}+1$
Do you think you can help me @DHMO ?
 
$(3^n+1)|(5^{3^n}+1)$
 
Yes
 
well, what were you trying?
 
1:06 AM
For all n in \mathbbN
Mathematical Induction
Verified for n=0
 
hello, anyone interested in a trig discussion?
 
@heather yes
 
I Supposed that it's true for some n in N
 
@DHMO, thank you! So, my first question:
 
And I got stuck at proving for n+1
 
1:09 AM
@DHMO, if you are trying to find $\arctan$ or $\arcsin$ or whatever, it is just the inverse of $\tan$ or $\sin$, right? So if you have 25 for $\sin$, than $\arcsin$ would be $1/25$, right?
 
@Mahmoud Suppose that it's true for some $k\in\Bbb N$, i.e. $5^{3^k}+1=m(3^k+1)$.
Then, $5^{3^{k+1}}+1=5^{3^k\times3}+1=(5^{3^k})^3+1=(m(3^k+1)-1)^3+1$
Try to continue from here
@heather no
that is not what inverse means here
 
@DHMO, oh...
what does it mean here?
 
it means, that if $\sin\left(\dfrac\pi3\right) = \dfrac{\sqrt{3}}2$, then $\arcsin\left(\dfrac{\sqrt3}2\right)=\dfrac\pi3$
inverse function
that means, if we look like functions as machines that takes an input and gives an output, then the inverse function is the anti-machine that takes the output and gives the input
 
Is it going to work @DHMO ?
 
@DHMO, oh! Lightbulb moment. So then, given, say, the problem $\arctan(2.6)$ or some such problem, how do you calculate it without a calculator?
 
1:13 AM
$(3^{n+1})|(5^{3^n}+1)$
 
@heather usually they give you special values like $\arctan(1)$, right
you need to memorize $\tan(0^\circ)$, $\tan(30^\circ)$, $\tan(45^\circ)$, $\tan(60^\circ)$, and $\tan(90^\circ)$.
 
@DHMO, this problem is $\arctan(2.6)$, but yeah, probably best to start with the simple stuff.
 
@heather then u need to use taylor series...
 
@DHMO, okay, one moment, what is the taylor series?
 
@DHMO Now it's written properly.
@heather Taylor series need to be explained, visit khanacademy.org
 
1:17 AM
@Mahmoud what...
 
@DHMO It was incorrect (the statement I wrote)
 
@heather taylor series is how you write function in terms of "infinite polynomial" (formally called power series)
for example, $e^x=\displaystyle\sum_{n\mathop=0}^\infty\frac{x^n}{n!}=1+x+\frac{x^2}2+\frac{x‌​^3}6+\cdots$
 
@DHMO, what function? $\tan$?
oh, other functions too...
 
that's for $y=e^x$
 
@heather I meant functions
@Mahmoud Suppose that it's true for some $k\in\Bbb N$, i.e. $5^{3^k}+1=m(3^{k+1})$.
Then, $5^{3^{k+1}}+1=5^{3^k\times3}+1=(5^{3^k})^3+1=(m(3^{k+1})-1)^3+1$
$=m^33^{3k+3} - 3m^23^{2k+2} + 3m\times3^{k+1} - 1 + 1$
 
1:20 AM
@DHMO, oh, okay. But then why is this used in trigonometry? I looked it up on Khan Academy and it is calculus. Doesn't trig come before calculus? Because the problem came up on Khan Academy's trig course, and I tried to look at the hints that explained the problem, but they were rather confusing.
 
@heather what were the hints?
$= m^33^{2k+1}3^{k+2} - m^23^{k+1}3^{k+2} + m\times3^{k+2}$
$= (m^33^{2k+1}-m^23^{k+1}+m)3^{k+2}$
$\therefore\ 3^{k+2}|(5^{3^{k+1}}+1)$
@Mahmoud
 
Thanks @DHMO
 
@heather I just looked at the problem
the main point of that problem is not to evaluate $\arctan(2.6)$
The main point is that the values of $\arcsin$ must be in the interval $(-90^\circ,90^\circ)$, etc.
 
 
6 hours later…
7:49 AM
Why does the gamma function diverge for negative integers?
Integrating by parts I can prove it does but I don't see why
 
8:14 AM
is the Dirichlet approximation theorem equivalent to the statement: if x is an irrational, $\mathbb{Q}[x]$ is dense in $\mathbb{R}$?
 
 
1 hour later…
9:40 AM
@Mussulini If you can see that it does, what kind of extra explanation are you looking for?
It can also be seen from the functional equation $\Gamma(z+1) = z\Gamma(z)$. Divide by $z$: $\Gamma(z) = \Gamma(z+1)/z$, then think about the limit $z \to 0$, then the limit $z \to -1$, then $z \to -2$, etc.
 
I don't get why it diverges for negative integers but not for all negative reals, the graphs of $\frac{x^a}{e^x}$ look similar if a is negative whether or not it is integer
 
@Mussulini The same formula can tell you that it converges for negative real non-integers. Consider the limit $z \to -1/2$, $z \to -3/2$, etc.
the functional equation is pretty much the reason for the poles at the negative integers.
 
9:58 AM
Since I am trying to get the bounty room going, perhaps a reasonable thing could be to adverties it here. So here is link to the relevant meta post and here is the room.
 
10:11 AM
A quick query: If I were to distribute 4 vectors (of equal magnitude) around a point in space (so they're co-initial) how'd I go about doing it? (Would I have to position each vector at an angle of 109.5 degrees from each other? )
[ @DHMO o/ ]
 
you mean to put them so they form a regular tetrahedron?
hmm I remember that angle. Night terrors about chemistry...
 
10:54 AM
Hello all
I'm currently struggling with a geometry problem
and I wondered if anyone here had a spare moment to help me?
The problem is that I have an image with lines drawn on it. I am using a mapping tool much like google maps which tiles images of the current map on the screen. Each square is drawn individually so there may be times that a line intersects the current square. There may also be occasions where the line could be contained in a square. Lines can be in any direction.
I have the start and end points for each line
for the whole drawing
But I need to calculate the start and end points of the line for the given tile.
I've been thinking about this problem so much I can't sleep at night and when I do finally get some sleep I dream about it
I'd appreciate any assistance you could offer
 
Are the lines random or follow some kind of distribution, do they have fixed length, is the image on a flat or spherical surface?
 
okay..
The lines are random
It's actually a map which can contain various shapes
 
And tiles? They are all squares (or rectangles) and boundaries are parallel to ach other?
 
but I am only considering lines at the moment to break down the problem
all squares
256 X 256 Pixels
 
So if boundaries of rectangles are line of the form x=x0 (vertical) and y=y0 (horizontal) then finding intersection between this boundary line and arbitrary line should be rather easy.
You simply need to find the point on the line with x-coordinate equal to x0. Similarly for horizontal boundary lines.
 
11:04 AM
Sorry I don't follow..
okay so...
 
Do I understand correctly that you have some coordinate system.
 
Yes I have an X a Y and a Z (zoom)
 
And a tile is a square given by lower left corner and right upper corner, you know coordinates of corners.
Let us denote the coordinates of the lower left corner of some tile (x0,y0) and upper right corner by (x1,y1).
So far what I wrote corresponds to what you want?
 
yes.. but the lines co-ordinates are not the same... they are for the overall map
but yes I follow so far
actually wait no
lower left = 0,0 upper right = 256,256
 
But you have several tiles.
You can't have the same coordinates for each tile...?
 
11:08 AM
hang on we're going a little fast for my non-mathematical brain...
ah yes
you're right
no I think I misunderstood you before
 
Ok, what I am trying to say (and you can probably transform it to the way you need), that if you have a square given by corners (x0,y0) and (x1,y1) and you also have line given by two endpoints (a,b) and (c,d), then it is relatively easy to find the intersection between the line and the square.
 
so that would be the first tile I was describing
 
something like this?
 
exactly!
let me explain the actual real life problem
 
11:10 AM
Ok, I can probably leave this to Secret.
 
so I have a floorplan in CAD...
it's huge
and I need to render it on screen
so I am using a mapping library which acts like google maps
it calls my code and asks for a single tile each time
and I need to generate an image for that specific tile
the image is the easy part for me
the hard part is calculating where the lines need to be drawn for the given square
Martin
you were correct
 
hey geeks
 
I hadn't understood what you were saying
 
but then because the lines (which is determined by the content of the floor plan) are random, there is no analytic equation to check whether they intersect the grid. Thus the only thing I knew is that you need to somehow get an array of data for that underlying image before these can be checked with the gridlines to see if there is an intersection?
 
BTW @PrimeByDesign if you want to get somebody's attention, you can use pings - in the form @username.
Given two points (a,b) and (c,d) you can get easily the equation of the line between them. For example, you can write it as (y-b)/(x-a)=(d-b)/(c-a).
You can also easily check whether the endpoints are in the give tile.
If not you simply want intersections of the given line with the lines x=x0, y=y0, x=x1 and y=y1, which for the boundary of the square.
However, this is probably oversimplification of your original problem, since I am talking about straight lines and you probably draw Bezier curves or something even more complicated.
BTW I am not sure what are you using, but probably any decent library for drawing lines and curves should already contain something like this.
 
11:24 AM
is there an elegant way to prove the gamma function is log convex? I proved it from Euler's product definition but it was very not elegant
 
BTW @PrimeByDesign you can probably find some stuff about this online. For example, this SO post line-rectangle collision detection and also the other posts linked there seem related to your problem. (Or at least to my simplification of your problem.)
 
11:40 AM
Hello ! I'm back
 
11:50 AM
<wb @DHMO
Does anyone know if it is possible to convert sound to an image using the inverse of a Hilbert curve ?
 
Hey guys I have a elementary calculus problem:
Suppose I want to show that the arbitrary constants of an integration does not matter:
$$\int uv' dx=u(v + C_1)-\int u'(v+C_2) dx$$
$$=uv + uC_1-\int u'v+ u'C_2 dx$$
$$=uv + uC_1-\int u'v dx- (u + C_3)C_2$$
$$=uv-\int u'v dx + u(C_1-C_2) - C_3C_2$$
But I got an extra arbitrary constant that is multiplied to u. Is there a reason why $C_1=C_2$?
 
12:08 PM
hello, how to prove the stability of the finite intersection $\{\emptyset,\mathbb{R}, \bigcup_{i\in I}]a_i,b_i[\}$
 
@AaronAbraham you know, it's easy to map a tetrahedron to a cube
the angle 109.5 can be derived quite easily once you figure it out
hint: the four corners of a regular tetrahedron corresponds to four of the eight corners of a cube
@Mahmoud hi
@Secret The first step is wrong
 
Oh hi @DHMO :)
 
someone help me please
 
@Vrouvrou what is $I$? what is $a_i$? what is $b_i$?
 
$a_i,b_i\in \mathbb{R}$ and $I\subset \mathbb{N}$
 
12:15 PM
@Vrouvrou Could you teach me what that notation mean? I do not understand {X,Y,Z}
sorry
 
a topology
i speak about topology
 
Sorry, you might want to consult @BalarkaSen or @MikeMiller
I know absolutely nothing about topology
 
12:28 PM
@TedShifrin \o long time no see, nice to say hi :)
 
Hi :)
 
12:53 PM
Hi @iwriteonbananas
also @Danu
 
eyyo
 
What's up?
 
Nothing much. Connections on holomorphic vector bundles somethingsomething.
 
I'm in love
 
12:55 PM
@iwriteonbananas With derived functors of colimit?
@Danu Darn, I have no idea what those are
 
The same as usual :P
But you can think about special ones
 
@BalarkaSen Hmm, yeah maybe
 
you don't know whom you are in love with? lol
 
in particular, there is a unique one that is both compatible with the holomorphic structure in the sense that its $(0,1)$-part is $\bar\partial$ and compatible with the Hermitian structure in the sense analogous to metric connections
 
@Danu Give me a few weeks, I'll know what connections on bundles are by then
 
12:56 PM
That's the Chern connection, and it's probably super important.
 
No, i just have this tingly feeling in my stomache. Butterflies.
 
@BalarkaSen I thought you said you studied connections?
 
hm? no.
 
yesterday, by Balarka Sen
I am moving ahead to connections for a bit
 
I just started on affine connections on immersed surfaces in R^3.
 
12:57 PM
So I guess you're studying connections on the tangent bundle?
 
yeah
 
Well the concept is pretty analogous for other bundles :)
except instead of normal forms you do bundle-valued forms
But it's really not too different
 
I know some of these words
 
That's how I feel, most of the time.
 
@Fargle Aren't you the dude who used to study surfaces from Ted's notes?
 
1:01 PM
@Balarka yeah I didn't really get very far, my autodidactism tends toward flash-in-the-pan
 
Hmm...
 
I'm studying it right now
 
Perhaps you just need to get inspired
My self-studying has increased over the years
 
Very little on this planet inspires me more than math, I'm just lazier than I wish to be, haha.
 
@Fargle I can connect to that
 
1:02 PM
For example I'm currently taking a semester off
friendly advice for anyone considering that:
don't
 
Why;re you donig it?
 
money problems relating to grade problems
 
I still do as much reading as I can, it's just hard to continue without the structure provided by an instructor
and to some extent I've lost direction--I don't know what to study next, or where my gaps lie
 
I know the feeling
 
1:08 PM
Hey! (Sorry to interrupt.) A short question. Is there consensus on the definition of a directional derivative of a vector field? Say $$\vec{a}(x_1,\ldots,x_n)=\sum_{i=1}^{k}f_i(x_1,\ldots,x_n)\vec{e_i} $$. Is the directional derivative (a.) the Jacobian matrix of $\vec{a}$ multiplied with a vector $\vec{u}$ of any length; (b) or must $\vec{u}$ be a unit vector?
 
@Fargle Why?
 
Hubbards' Calculus(page 132) goes with option (a.) while a handout on Tensor analysis goes with (b.).
 
@Fargle You could just go through your uni's curriculum and see what you're missing
 
@Danu It just makes it harder to return as far as I can tell
@Danu my "current" uni's curriculum is mostly stuff I've already taken or studied
I mean smaller gaps
 
@DHMO, so sorry I didn't respond last night! My parents made me get off of the computer.
 
1:10 PM
@Fargle Then just push on and fill in the small gaps as you bump into problems.
 
@heather no problem
 
@Danu You make a good point
 
@DHMO, so the thing I was missing was where it asked for the principle value of $\arctan$ or $\arccos$ or $\arcsin$?
 
@heather yes
 
@LinearChristmas I've seen it both ways, too. It seems to make a bit more quantitative sense when considering unit vectors but there may be good reasons for both and that's a bit above my pay-grade. Seems like something where you'd just defer to the author's convention
 
1:14 PM
@DHMO, okay. I looked at your comment and didn't quite understand what was meant by $(90, -90)$ (or the interval bit, for that matter). So what exactly does that mean?
 
@Fargle I hope so, because I'm doing this even with huge gaps :D
 
@heather oh, it just means it is between -90degrees and 90degrees
 
@Danu I guess one approach might be to just crack open a second-course book in one of these subjects and try to work problems
 
@Fargle: that is what I thought. Thanks! In the mean time I also read Wiki's talk page on the issue where there is the quote: '[---]if you say "derivative along a vector", that vector does not need to be of length one. If you say "derivative along a direction", then yes, a direction by convention is normalized to length 1.'
This seems especially odd.
 
@Fargle Yeah, after reading the corresponding sections in the text ;)
 
1:16 PM
@Danu Reading? Pah
>_>
 
I love reading
 
Doing problems > reading
 
@DHMO, oh, that makes sense. So then how are you supposed to figure out where in the interval the answer is?
 
@BalarkaSen In terms of time spent, yes ;D
 
In terms of understanding too
 
1:18 PM
@heather well, $\arcsin$ is from -90deg to 90deg
 
@BalarkaSen: more like $\approx$ haha
 
okay
 
@BalarkaSen I passionately agree with that
 
$\arccos$ is from 0deg to 180deg
 
I doubt that, if you do only problems without reading...
 
1:18 PM
@Danu 3 to 1 you're outnumbered.
 
$\arctan$ is same as $\arcsin$
 
Luckily this ain't democracy
 
hmm, okay
 
I think very little reading is actually necessary
but whatever
God the fkn light keeps going off here
 
oh, sure, sometimes doing problems without reading is unreasonable. but it's a great great feeling that will actually stick to you when you try a problem for some time and then go back, stumble upon something in the text that solves it
maybe if you just kept reading, you'd shrug that something in the text off as irrelevant and obvious
 
1:21 PM
One needs to get one's elbows in the mud to learn anything. It needs to hurt. Reading doesn't hurt enough.
 
@Danu I do too, haha, I speak only in jest.
 
@iwriteonbananas fist fighting hurts more than doing exercises tho
so I propose that as another alternative for learning math
 
I agree. Let's start a fight club.
 
"we fight and sell drugs. and do math, occasionally"
 
That slogan is killer.
 
1:30 PM
@iwriteonbananas I wrote an alternative answer to the question you last answered :) But I didn't explain everything from the start...
 
That's a good fact, but killing a fly with a sledgehammer imo
 
Nice answer, hadn't even thought of that
 
@BalarkaSen Hmm...
 
I don't think it's an easy fact that signature is a cobordism invariant.
 
I forgot, how hard was it to prove that theorem?
 
1:34 PM
I think Thom expressed it in terms of some characteristic classes.
But I have no idea
 
@iwriteonbananas Not very hard...
I have a proof
 
Ok, hit me
 
So eh.. Consider $\Bbb R$-coefficients, then by universal coefficients cohomology is dual of homology. From the SES for $(M,\partial M)$ we get natural homomorphisms $H^{2n}(M)\to H^{2n}(\partial M)$ and the other way around on homology
Using the LES on cohomology and homology you have this commutative ladder
 
is $M$ 2n dimensional?
 
Yea ok
 
1:39 PM
$4n+1$
 
oh, k
go on
 
I'm proving that its boundary has zero signature
 
@Danu what are the vertical maps?
 
The ladder has a piece (second map is "vertical") $H^{2n}(M)\to H^{2n}(\partial M)\to H_{2n}(\partial M) \to H_{2n}(M)$
The vertical maps are given by cap products with the correspondnig fundamental classes
 
1:41 PM
Now you do some dimension counting shit
 
Your indices are wrong
Hm maybe not
 
$\partial M$ is 4n dim, so not really
 
Yeah, dont mind me
 
and see that the image of $A^*$ has half-dimension of $H_{2n}(M)$ and then you prove that the intersection form must vanish on this
Then you have a half-dimensional isotropic subspace, hence zero signature
I know this is a bit sketchy---I'm dealing with some stuff right now.
 
what's $A^*$?
 
1:42 PM
Oh sorry
The first map in the sequence I wrote out
 
I can talk more about it later maybe
give me 1-2 hours
 
that doesn't sound like a bad proof sketch actually
 
@Danu $M$ or $\partial M$?
 
has to be $\partial M$, sorry.
(that's a typo in the proof I have, I guess)
Else it doesn't make sense
 
1:46 PM
Right, ok
 
right
intersection form lives in $\partial M$, not $M$
 
Thanks for pointing that out
I needda edit my topology script :D
We jsut randomly proved that theorem, and then as only application gave that $\Bbb C\rm P^2$ doesn't bound.
So I got lucky with that question, haha.
 
Oh but wait
Bordism invariance only gives you that it's not the boundary of an oriented 5-fold, no?
 
that's true
 
Yes, that's right.
I need muh fundamental classes
 
1:51 PM
what signature of CP^2 mod 2?
 
if that's still nonzero you're saved
 
@BalarkaSen 1 of course
Because cohomology is one-dimensional
 
right, so you're still through
 
Right...
I'll add a note I guess
Added it to the answer.
 
1:54 PM
I think your proof works. Interesting.
I thought it'd be harder!
 
Yeah, it's actually pretty okay
Essentially Poincare duality shit
 
yeah
 
2:31 PM
Does it hold that $\int_{\xi_1^2+ \xi_2^2=4} 1 ds=4 \pi$?
 
@Evinda What is $\xi$?
 
$\xi=(\xi_1, \xi_2)$ and $ds=d{\xi_1} d{\xi_2}$ @DHMO
 
What is $\xi_1$?
 
It should = the area of the circle, since you are integrating over the disk of radius 1
 
It is not given @DHMO
 
2:37 PM
Try sub 1=that xi expression and then integrate, you shoudl get $4\pi$
 
@Evinda I mean, what does $\xi_1$ mean?
is it just a coordinate?
 
@Secret So is it equal to $w_2 \cdot 2$ where $w_2=2 \pi$ (the length of the unit circle ) and $2$ is the radius of the ball over which we are integrating?
@DHMO Yes, it's a coordinate
 
Can I use $x$ and $y$ instead?
You're just integrating along the circumference
of a circle with radius $2$
 
Yes, and this is equal to what I said $w_2 \cdot 2$, right? @DHMO
 
@Evinda yes, since $\omega_2 = 2\pi$
 
2:43 PM
Great, thank you!!! @DHMO
 
yes, you are integrating along the radial and the theta (the theta has limits 0 to $2\pi$) thus the $\omega_2$ is the theta component
 
good morning
 
@Evinda what does $\omega_2$ mean?
 
The circumference of the unit circle, not? @DHMO
 
@Evinda I mean, what does it mean?
 
2:46 PM
What do you mean? the definition?
 
yes
 
It's the distance around the circle @DHMO
 
@Evinda what is $\omega_1$ then
 
I don't know. :/ @DHMO
 
alright
 
2:51 PM
I have a work to do now. I will be back in 15 minutes @DHMO
 
ok
 
@SimpleArt hi
 
Say, I was recently learning about contour integrals with the residue theorem, and I have the following question
Do all closed paths that enclose the same poles come out to be equal?
 
@SimpleArt yes, by the residue theorem
 

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