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12:01 AM
@ThomasAndrews Should the generator of a principal ideal be an irreducible polynomial??
 
No. $\langle 6\rangle$ is a principal ideal.
 
@ThomasAndrews may i ask you what do you think of this issue? math.stackexchange.com/questions/1125581/…
 
Seems perfectly normal to me. What comes to you when solving a problem is heavily dependent on what you've been thinking about recently.
 
$I=\langle x, y\rangle$ is not a principal ideal.

Proof: If it were principal, then $\exists f(x, y) \in K[x, y]$ such that $\langle x, y \rangle =\langle f(x, y) \rangle $

$x=f(x, y) \cdot g(x, y), y=f(x, y) \cdot h(x, y)$

$\Rightarrow f(x, y) \mid x, f(x, y) \mid y$

$ \Rightarrow f(x, y) \mid gcd(x, y)=1 $

$\Rightarrow f(x, y)=c \in K^{\star}$ , a contradiction.

Why is this a contradiction??
@ThomasAndrews
 
@user153330 I agree with Thomas.
 
12:06 AM
Because if $f(x,y)=c$, then $\langle f(x,y\rangle = K\neq \langle x,y\rangle$. @MaryStar
 
Even research solutions and problems can be motivated by a totally unrelated talk or conversation that you've been thinking about recentl;y
 
Although I don't like that proof, because "gcd(x,y)=1" is a mere assertion. @MaryStar
Generally unwise to preface your question with words like "Important" or "Hard" or "Easy." The title should quickly let the reader know what type of question it is - can I help this person or not? Telling us that you find it important, easy, hard, whatever, does not help that. @user153330
 
@ThomasAndrews it's not my question, just found it discussing the same issue i have
 
Whoops, failed in my random digits comparison. :)
 
I understand!!! :-) @ThomasAndrews

Something else... In my notes there is the following:

$$p \mid \langle a \rangle \Leftrightarrow a \in P$$

Could you explain it me?? What does it mean that $p \mid \langle a \rangle $ ??
$P$ is a prime ideal @ThomasAndrews
 
12:13 AM
Should be both $P$, not $P$ and $p$. That's just the definition of $I_1\mid I_2$ where $I_2$ is an ideal. $I_1\mid I_2$ if $I_2\subseteq I_1$. Think of $I_1=\langle 7\rangle$ and $I_2=\langle 14\rangle$.
 
Ok... Thank you very much!!! :-) @ThomasAndrews
 
It is worth knowing that the term "ideal" originally was short for "ideal divisor." When mathematicians were trying to study factorization in other rings, they said, "Hey, there ought to be a GCD of these two numbers, but I can't find one." So they created fictional "divisors" which they called "ideal" because "ideally" they'd exist. That is why I dislike saying $\gcd(x,y)=1$ in $K[x,y]$. The GCD of the ideals $\langle x\rangle$ and $\langle y\rangle$ is actually the ideal $\langle x,y\rangle$.
The typical example of this is in $\mathbb Z[\sqrt{-5}]$, where $3$ and $1+\sqrt{-5}$ "ought to" have a common divisor, but they don't. So we create the ideal $\langle 3,1+\sqrt{-5}\rangle$ to represent that "ideal divisor."
 
12:32 AM
@ThomasAndrews: that is a very nice bit of history. I didn't know that.
 
@ThomasAndrews Interesting!!
 
@ThomasAndrews They'd have a common divisor if they were in a PID, but what you've just said implies that $\mathbb Z[\sqrt{-5}]$ is not a PID
 
Right. It's also not a UFD, since $(1+\sqrt{-5})(1-\sqrt{-5})=2\cdot 3$, which is why this is a canonical example, and why "there ought to be a GCD here" leads to the notion of an "ideal divisor."
Imagine trying to talk about these "ideal divisors" before you even had a formal notion of "ring." :)
(Dedekind apparently defined rings and the word "ideal," but Kummer before him was talking about ideals before they had that name.)
 
12:48 AM
Hello anyone can give me easy proof for the Orthogonal and Symmetric operator matrices
 
@ThomasAndrews Yes, most of the proofs regarding unique factorization use ideas from PIDs, such as Bezout, etc.
 
But, for example, $R[x]$ is a UFD if and only if $R$ is a UFD, but is not necessarily a PID.
 
@ThomasAndrews Yes PID $\implies$ UFD, but not vice-versa, if I'm not mistaken.
 
And Euclidean Domain $\implies$ PID.
 
@ThomasAndrews Good, I have not forgotten everything ;-)
 
1:01 AM
Kummer, amongst other things, was trying to solve Fermat's Last Theorem. You can factor $x^n+y^n$ in an obvious way in $\mathbb Z[\zeta_n]$, where $\zeta_n$ is a primitive root of unity. If that ring was a UFD, Fermat would be trivial. (It is often conjectures that Fermat's claimed proof might have assumed this ring is a UFD.) Kummer was trying to understand factorization in rings like this.
 
I'm mad... some troll downvoted my questions and even old ones too... ugh I don't deserve 914 rep.. if anyone can fix it that will make me happy
Like really 8 questions downvoted spam festival... can't a user get into trouble for spamming downvotes?
 
If the downvotes were really all at once, they will probably be automatically cancelled overnight, and you'll get your points back. But it takes a while for it to be corrected. @usukidoll
 
thanks some idiot downvoted 8 of my questions at once like what the heck yo
so I saw that and I'm like whoever did that is most likely going to get in trouble for spamming down votes
 
To show that $\mathbb{Z}$ is a ring, do we show that for $a, b \in \mathbb{Z}$ it stands that $a \cdot b \in \mathbb{Z}$ and $a-b \in \mathbb{Z}$ ??
 
I haven't heard of anybody ever getting in trouble for this behavior, sadly.
 
1:16 AM
-_-
 
@usukidoll The votes will just be reversed and a mod might contact him, but he won't go to jail.
 
@usukidoll what will happen is at around 3:00 UTC, a script will run, hopefully note the serial downvotes, and reverse them. If you note that the votes were reversed, let me know and I can take any further action.
 
There was a certain frequent answerer who answered way too quickly, without reading the question, just the title. I'd downvote those, but I learned not to leave a comment on his answers, because when I did, I'd always get an immediate downvote on some ancient question of mine.
 
@ThomasAndrews Do you mean her?
 
(Haven't seen that person in a while. Lots of over-quick "answer the title" answering still nowadays, but not with retaliatory downvoters.)
 
1:21 AM
@robjohn Essentially, you will just send a warning to the user.
 
I find it funny that people try to be competitive here. If anything, one should try to compete with oneself to be a better mathematician, a better explainer, or simply a better user. If someone else corrects you or answers first, then consider it a good thing.
 
@ABeautifulMind The person I'm talking about used a male name. I never inspected this person's genitals, however. (And nowadays, even genitals do not determine which pronoun I use, I guess.)
 
@ThomasAndrews I see. There could also be mixed genitals.
@JMoravitz They just like to play games and win points.
 
You could start getting into the habit of using the gender-neutral pronouns. He, She, Zhe:: His, Her, Zher
 
@ABeautifulMind unless they have a history of such things.
 
1:27 AM
@robjohn I am very sad. I wonder when I will be well. I just felt like telling you again.
 
I figure, if a person uses a clear gendered name, they want to be known as that gender.
 
Yes, like Thomas, lol.
 
I think whenever a downvote is reversed systemically, it should cost the downvoter points.
 
I think that the system should abolish downvotes.
 
@ThomasAndrews oh yeah I would want that so badly
 
1:34 AM
You should not care about points so badly.
 
-.-
 
I don't, but the downvoters do, and a slew of downvotes is bad for the system - it is not related to the value of the question.
 
check this out. @ThomasAndrews pastebin.com/iTx78HfT
 
Thee's a reason people downvote questions - downvoting questions costs nothing.
 
yeah well all of my questions aren't nonsense
 
2:20 AM
1
Q: Equivalent quadratic forms

user159870Two quadratic forms $$Q(x_1, x_2, \dots , x_n) \\ \text{ and } Q'(x_1, x_2, \dots , x_n)$$ are called equivalent $$\Leftrightarrow Q'(x)=Q(Tx), \text{ where } T \in M_n(K), \text{ invertible }$$ When we have $$Q(x, y)=x^2+y^2 \\\ Q'(x, y)=5x^2+5y^2$$ how can we check if they are equivalent??? H...

How do we find the matrix $T$ ?
 
2:50 AM
@user159870 it is my understanding that $T$ will be some linear transformation (by the fact that it is invertible). It may be some rotation matrix, or a magnification matrix, etc... In this case, you have that $Q(x,0) = x^2$ and $Q'(x,0) = 5x^2 = (\sqrt{5}x)^2$, similarly so for $Q'(0,y) = (\sqrt{5}y)^2$
It helps a great deal that there are no mixed terms.
(trying to sort out typos)
$Q(\begin{bmatrix}\sqrt{5}&0\\ 0 & \sqrt{5}\end{bmatrix} \begin{bmatrix} x\\y \end{bmatrix}) = Q(\begin{bmatrix} \sqrt{5}x \\ \sqrt{5}y\end{bmatrix})
=(\sqrt{5}x)^2 + (\sqrt{5}y)^2 = 5x^2 + 5y^2 = Q'(\begin{bmatrix}x\\ y\end{bmatrix})$
 
woohoo serial voting reversed
 
3:21 AM
$$Rad(I)=\{a \in R | \exists n \in \mathbb{N} \text{ such that } a^n \in I\}$$ R is a commutative ring, I is an ideal. To show that $Rad(I)$ is an ideal of $I$, we have to show that for $a,b \in Rad(I)$ it stands that $a-bin Rad(I)$ and for $r\in R$ it stands that $a\cdot r\in Rad(I)$. When $a,b \in Rad(I)$ we have that $a,b \in R$ and $a^n, b^m \in I$. $a-b \in R$. But how can we show that $(a-b)^x \in I$ ??
 
 
3 hours later…
5:56 AM
Hi can anyone tell me that if I sample from an exponential distribution, with parameter lambda>0, will 0 appear as a sample point?
 
@yedaynara For a continuous random variable, the probability that any particular value will be observed for that variable is zero: $\Pr[X = x] = 0$, so your question would be the same if you asked "will 1.5 appear as a sample point," or "will 3.14159265358979323846264338 appear as a sample point."
 
6:33 AM
I think I was not clear enough. I am taking a random sample from an exponential distribution. So ultimately what I will get is a number. Can that observed number be 0?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:21 AM
@TedShifrin i edited my question, all the paper and book i have seen say that it is obvious and one of then says that we use the fact that $u$ is radial but i don't know how i must use it please help me
 
 
2 hours later…
9:58 AM
Hi @user159870
 
@JMoravitz So do we always set the one variable to zero to find the coefficients??? Can you give me an other example so that I see if I have understood it???
hey @SayanChattopadhyay
 
what equation is it @user159870
Hi @BalarkaSen
 
well tell me something will a infinite set have a subset which is also infinite
 
sure. take the set of all integers $\Bbb Z$. set of all odd numbers is a subset of $\Bbb Z$ which is also infinite.
 
10:03 AM
Oh i should have thought that
well i started set theory
and i am finding it very interesting
 
good to know. which book are you following?
 
Kapalansky Set theory and metric spaces
 
@SayanChattopadhyay not a very good book if you're only a beginner in set theory.
 
Then what should i follow
 
10:07 AM
hmm. well, try Hammock's book of proof.
and Kapalansky will lead you to fundamentals of topology. i'd say you'd rather learn a bit of calculus before you jump into topology.
 
Calculus i know the basics like diffrentiation etc
 
you need to know continuity, sequences and series.
almost all of calculus is needed to study topology.
 
continuity yes if a function has its right hand limit equal to its left hand limit then it is continuous
Is this right
 
just knowing the definitions won't help ;)
restudy calculus.
 
Yes i will
 
10:10 AM
@SayanChattopadhyay not particularly correct.
 
oh but my so called NCERT book says that
And i think u know NCERT
 
@Sayan I think you should learn set theory thoroughly first. then study calculus. after that, you can think of studying higher mathematics.
 
@BalarkaSen i'm sorry but have you an idea about this :math.stackexchange.com/questions/1126738/…
 
@SayanChattopadhyay if a function has it's right hand limit equal to a left hand limit at a certain point then it is continuous at a point, yes. i misread what you wrote.
 
SO u know NCERT books i hate them
 
10:14 AM
but actually that definition won't help when you face the topological definition of continuity. the most stupid epsilon delta definition is what is needed to understand the topological definition.
anways, study set theory first.
 
well you have ur boards nearing right @BalarkaSen
 
well, actually it's still a year away.
 
i am suffering with biology and sst
What? how
You have just entered 10th standard
 
right.
session started this january
 
u r a prodigy then man
awesome
well @BalarkaSen where do u study........
 
10:19 AM
some school here in kolkata that you probably won't recognize
 
I am born at kolkata man
 
where, in particular?
 
command hospital ,behala
 
behala would have sufficed. :P i am at sodepur, if you recognize the name.
 
and ur classmates ar just like u
u said that
 
10:23 AM
Hi Sayan Chattopadhyay, which class are you in?
 
way better than me. uh, this discussion is kind of drifting away from mathematics.
 
fine no more these discussions
 
anways, i gotta go.
 
peace and bye
10th standard @yedaynara
 
OK. Good luck
 
10:24 AM
even u kolkata
 
Yes I am
 
so u would be able to answer my question
 
What question? I did not follow the chat, sorry
I came here to see if my question was answered, which clearly has not been :D
heropup must have been offline :(
 
can the cube of every perfect number be expressed as the sum of three cubes
 
I shall think on it.
 
10:27 AM
Thanks
 
You gave RMO?
 
regional math olympiad
Anyway I am assuming you did not :P
Bcoz you seemed to hear the abbreviation for the first time
Tomorrow is INMO the national math olympiad
 
yes coz my parents want me to be a doc
 
And you don't?
 
10:30 AM
yes
 
OK bye for now. Will meet up later
 
11:12 AM
@SayanChattopadhyay Just be what you want to be, don't care about your parents.
Hello @robjohn.
 
Greetings
 
Hello @Chris'ssis.
 
@ABeautifulMind Hi. How are u today?
 
@Chris'ssis Not too good. I just want to tell you that I will give myself at most 6 more years to get well and enter grad school. I hope I make it by then.
 
@ABeautifulMind It doesn't sound good to me.
 
11:18 AM
@Chris'ssis What about you? I think that after you finish writing your book, you should go and do a math degree.
@Chris'ssis Yes. It's not good. Although what I have is not schizophrenia, I think it is equally, if not more, serious.
 
hi @ABeautifulMind
 
@SayanChattopadhyay Hello. Remember what I said.
 
@ABeautifulMind These days I worked on a tough question, I was there with it ready to even die if needed to reach my objective, to tame the beast. I mean, I don't wanna give up. To publish a book is a great challenge to me, I don't wanna simply a book for the sake of publishing a book. I want each of my readers reaches an amazing satisfaction level reading my book..
 
always will
 
@Chris'ssis Good. Don't give up. I want you to tell you that it's not that I don't try hard enough to get well, it's just that my mental problems are really bad and need a long long time to fix. But all these years, I never gave up.
 
11:22 AM
@ABeautifulMind u have schizophrenia
 
@SayanChattopadhyay No, but I have other things.
 
i feel very sorry for u
but u r so lucky that u were able to study maths
i dont know whats gonna happen with me
 
@SayanChattopadhyay I decided not to ignore you anymore, as long as you don't ping random people to answer your questions.
 
@ABeautifulMind As regards the math degree ... I barely manage to get a job here also for the fact that I live in a place where the jobs offer is not that good. I mean it's not that simple. I'll see, maybe I find a solution to fix all these.
 
11:23 AM
Good Morning mathematicians, I need some advice: In a store what would be the best way to find a customer' worth? For example The money a guy spends give a good indication of his purchasing power
but if a guy has bought a phone for 400 euros it also means he wont be buying a phone anytime soon
 
@Sudh I think you are in the wrong room, this is not business, lol.
 
ya i see no maths
 
haha, I am trying to find a mathematical relation
 
relation as i thought
 
@Sudh No, this has nothing to do with math.
 
11:25 AM
@ABeautifulMind can u tell @MikeMiller to not to ignore me
 
@SayanChattopadhyay You are lucky that you don't have a mental problem.
 
@Chris'ssis You are lucky that you don't live where I do, I hate this place.
@SayanChattopadhyay I cannot do that.
 
Consider this , how two quantities are related to each other and infer a third quantity I see math all over it
 
11:26 AM
plus the fact that it is a stats project
 
Well, then maybe ask in the stats room, they will tell you what stats you need.
But as it is your question is extremely vague and unanswerable.
 
if both the quantities go for a mathematical operation then yes they do infer a mathematical quantitiy
 
yes I have lots of variables about the customers and I want to infer his worth (in numbers so that customers can be ranked).
 
but there is no other way i see they can infer
 
Multi Variate Analysis is the name of subject it comes under if thats of any help
@say
 
11:29 AM
Write up your question properly with all details and post on statistics.
 
i have heard multivariable calculus
 
Totally different thing.
 
Yes I think stats would be a better platform ..Sorry it dint cross my mind
 
Remember to include all details.
 
Sure, Thanks a lot
 
11:30 AM
@ABeautifulMind is this room going to stay for two months
i mean is it going to go stagnant after few days
 
@SayanChattopadhyay It will probably be here for many more years.
 
great coz i wont be here for two months
 
@SayanChattopadhyay This room might be here until the day you die, so don't worry.
 
people will still be talking?
 
@Chris'ssis Same here. That is my wish which I hope will come true.
:19820892 Too many people here have hurt me. It's a sick place.
 
11:33 AM
@ABeautifulMind I felt too many times humiliated here. It's all just a matter of time ...
 
how much time will u take to recover@ABeautifulMind
which country r u in @Chris'ssis
 
@SayanChattopadhyay I do not know. There is a possibility I may never recover, but I will do my best.
@SayanChattopadhyay My location is a secret.
 
but u can talk so well in the chat it dosent seem u have any problem
 
@SayanChattopadhyay That's the thing about people will certain mental illnesses. You can't tell that they are suffering.
 
u have hallucinations
 
11:36 AM
@SayanChattopadhyay Talk so well? Haha, I only answer 1+1=2 here, I can't solve the Riemann Hypothesis.
 
to become a mathematician u dont need to solve the riemann hypothesis
 
Yes, but I do need to function normally, which I can't now.
@Chris'ssis It's quite interesting that you delete messages like skullpatrol. =)
@SayanChattopadhyay I hope you become a mathematician one day, if that is what you want. Good luck.
 
i want u to recover quickly so i can ask u all sorts of questions
well my parents are doc so i will know what kind of prob u have
somewhat i will
@Chris'ssis will ur book be found on amazon
when u publish it
it will have the highest position in my shelf
 
Hello, I've been wondering about something for a while. I've stumbled across Knuth's up arrow notation many, many times (For example, Graham's Number, Ackermann function). Is there a logarithmic equivalent to reverse it?
 
@SayanChattopadhyay I think so.
 
11:59 AM
@Chris'ssis hi ! how are you =)
 
@user153330 Working hard on my stuff. U?
 
@Chris'ssis a bit depressed, but good overall anyway
 
@ABeautifulMind I see your point.
@user153330 Depressed? Why?
 
@Chris'ssis i don't really know, i feel like i need to work more but there's so little motivation, maybe it's just that i need to cross another cap and that process is difficult
 
@user153330 Then join a person that is very motivated. It usually works I think.
 
12:08 PM
@Chris'ssis what do you mean? (actually i feel like i lost my free will)
 
@user153330 I mean this: maybe you should work together with a person that is very motivated, involved deeply in doing things. It's like a virus, you'll become motivated too. :-)
 
@Chris'ssis i never met with such a person, the only type of persons i meet are those who want to party, to have fun ... etc
 
@user153330 I want the same things too, to party, to have fun, but ... I also like very much to work on my stuff.
Every day I meet fascinating things ... (that makes life more beautiful, definitely)
 
@Chris'ssis you're lucky
 
@user153330 Do you think so? It depends on how you look at things.
 
12:17 PM
@Chris'ssis you just told me the solution, it all depend on me and how i look at things, so if i want to look at things the way i like then i can ! thanks =)
 
@user153330 Yes! :-)
 
@user153330 Do you feel that you need to put in more time in your studies?
 
@ABeautifulMind i feel i need to put all my time in my studies, but most of the time i fail with only 4 hours studying
 
@user153330 OK, then just try to put in more time. But one also cannot study math the whole day. The mind simply cannot take it.
 
12:32 PM
@ABeautifulMind i don't think so, i did it one time
 
@user153330 It's important to work hard, but also don't overwork yourself. Too much stress may lead to irreversible mental problems, like me.
 
@ABeautifulMind i think working all the day with enough sleep is the least thing i can do
 
@user153330 OK then, good luck.
 
@ABeautifulMind thanks
 
hi
 
12:38 PM
@TedShifrin thanks for the answer ted. yea i figured out how to do it in polar coordinates too, but this problem is asking me specifially to use green's theorem
@TedShifrin what does the expression $\frac12\int_{\partial B}(-y\,dx+x\,dy)$ mean?
 
@Alizter hi
"It's like if you want to be a good pianist, you have to do a lot of scales and a lot of practice, and a lot of that is kind of boring, it's work. But you need to do that before you can really be very expressive and really play beautiful music. You have to go through that phase of practice and drill." - Terry Tao
 
1:13 PM
@ABeautifulMind hello
@iwriteonbananas It is the area of $B$ if $\partial B$ is a simple closed curve.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:44 PM
@Chris'ssis What are you doing now?
 
@ABeautifulMind I'm working on a proof. :-) U?
 
@Abeau Just relaxing
 
@Chris'ssis I am sorting out my dark thoughts, as usual.
 
@ABeau How do you define a happy life?
 
@Answer Before I answer, why do you ask me?
 
2:45 PM
@ABeautifulMind Medicine you take doesn't help at all?
 
@ABeau Because everyone 'normal' have stupid answers
 
@iwriteonbananas: It's differential form notation for line integrals. It means you take $f(x,y) = \frac12(-y,x)$ and evaluate $\int f(\gamma(t))\cdot \gamma'(t)\,dt$.
 
@Chris'ssis I stopped it because it doesn't do anything. I also stopped therapy because everything they say I have read many many times. But I will consider returning to them. I think what I need to do most is to sort out my thoughts on my own.
 
I can't get a girlfriend, a house, a job. Should I rationalize that these aren't things I want(which is probably only based on social conditioning), or should I fight harder for them?
 
@Answer One is happy when he has what he wants and does not have what he does not want.
 
2:48 PM
@ABeau But what if I don't know what I want... Can I ever be happy then?
 
@Answer If you don't know what you want, figure out the answer first.
 
ironic name you picked, @Answer :)
hi, Jasper
 
@Answer You should figure out what you want, and then try your best to get them.
@TedShifrin Hello Ted.
 
Hello professor @TedShifrin
 
@Ted I picked it because I planned to answer questions, before I realised I sucked also at math.
 
2:50 PM
@Answer Is your mental illness affecting you a lot?
 
no luck with OS8.1.3, skull
 
I saw.
 
We all suck to some extent, @Answer. You shouldn't dwell on that.
 
@ABeau I don't know, I don't know if I can attribute it to my apparent mental illness
 
@Answer OK. Because mine has ruined my life. I am now trying to fix my mind so that I can get on with life.
 
2:52 PM
But life is all about the struggle
imo
 
@infinitesimal Many people I talk to in real life or in chat think I am not trying to get better, that I only complain about my problems which everyone has. They do not understand me, so I won't talk to them anymore.
 
@Abeau That is not good. My life is ruined for unknown reasons. I am apparently attractive, apparently intelligent and apparently fun to be around - Yet I don't have any of the things that I should had these been true. That and these things are said by people I don't really know. How do I make friends? People say to put myself out there, but the only people this doesn't scare off are the people I don't want to hang around
 
@robjohn I feel like I burn in hell with a hellish double integral . :-)
 
@Chris'ssis Never speak of hell, it is a terrible place to be.
 
I think I will change my name to 'Question'!
 
2:56 PM
@Answer Unknown reasons sounds hard to work with. I suggest you figure out the reasons first.
 
@ABeau My best attempt to find out has been that I am really bad at meeting people, I don't know where I am meant to meet them...
 
Who cares who understands you @ABeautifulMind You need to struggle to understand yourself.
 
@Answer What do you mean by bad at meeting people?
 
Know thyself.
 
@Abeau I can't approach people anymore
 
2:57 PM
@infinitesimal Right, which I do. But I also want to talk to people who understand me, like Kit.
@Answer And why is that so?
 
@ABeau Anxiety maybe
 
@Answer Then you need to figure out how to deal with that, which may take years.
 
@ABeautifulMind Some of the stuff I attend is very hard to me, but incredibly awesome.
 
I wish I had a friend group since the easiest way to make friends is to meet them through friends
 

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