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12:14 AM
Hi @Ted
I verbs too
(Fantastic conversations)
 
verb bad
 
vewy vewy bad
 
Hey everyone. Should I generally call the popular Banach-Tarski statement
Banach-Tarski theorem
or
Banach-Tarski paradox?
There are generally more mathematicians agreeing with the truth of the axiom of choice, but does that really mean it'd be better to call it a theorem?
 
12:39 AM
Today was busy. Between work and mod stuff I wasn't on chat much nor did I have time to answer many questions.
Hopefully, tomorrow will be better.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:46 AM
Hi @Karl
 
@TedShifrin If you have the time, you should go look at that question again. Jason DeVito killed it, and it was fascinating.
Here's the question, to be specific.
 
2:54 AM
@MikeMiller Why did you vote to put my question off topic?
@MikeMiller Tell me your reason!
 
@FractalHand link please
 
@IceBoy Are you Mike Miller?
@MikeMiller Never reply, probably thinking of making up something to say!
 
maybe I am, maybe I'm not...who wants to know?
 
@IceBoy I asked Mike Miller and you answered.
 
is that so wrong?
to want to know what you are talking about
all I asked for was a 'link' to the question
 
2:59 AM
@IceBoy No, it's not, however, I'm sorry for SE, some trivial people have become the ones who decide what's right and what's wrong.
 
no one person decides anything here pal
the more people that see the question, the better
 
@FractalHand Your question has already been asked and answered.
Also, Mike says eagles are silly.
And that's why he closed your question.
Because -- let it be noted -- eagles are silly.
I voted to close because I hate freedom.
2
 
13 mins ago, by FractalHand
@IceBoy Are you Mike Miller?
 
And eagles. They represent freedom.
 
why are you defending him?
 
3:10 AM
I don't like eagles either.
So I side with Mike.
 
ok
:)
 
What do you think of eagles?
 
get out of my cab
:D
 
3:38 AM
@robjohn I'm really grateful that SE has users like you too, because - Let it be noted - 60,317 rep doesn't make anyone famous shit or smart ass.Thanks for answering the question.
 
excuse me?
Exposition, criticism, appreciation is work of second-rate mind.
don't come in here "guns a blazing"
be nice
 
@IceBoy Let behave with people in a way they deserve it.
 
@IceBoy To make them understand with words in their level.
 
are you here to teach us a lesson?
 
3:51 AM
@fractal People tell me I have nice teeth.
 
@IceBoy I don't want to teach you anything, it's you constantly jumping in the middle and saying things which are none of your damn business.
 
all I asked for was a link
 
Do you like tango? @Fractal
 
58 mins ago, by Ice Boy
@FractalHand link please
I even said "please"
 
U so polite skull
 
3:54 AM
let it be noted: we have wasted 58 mins on this
 
Lol mofo was banned
 
Hey.
 
wazzup?
 
Puzzaw!
 
shrug
Things.
Tunes, you know.
 
4:19 AM
Since it appears somebody liked that one, have another. Then I'm going to bed.
Peace.
 
later
 
 
2 hours later…
6:12 AM
Greetings
@robjohn are you around?
 
6:25 AM
Greetings my friend :-)
 
7:14 AM
I can't get used to the new name, @IceBoy. T_T
Now I know what I've been doing to you guys, alternating between Shisui and my current name.
 
:-O you are "Shisui"?
 
That brings a whole new meaning to being a freedom fight, @PedroTamaroff. ^_^
Indeed!
Didn't you know, @IceBoy? :O
 
Just kidding pal :D
 
sighs
Ahhh, you got me!
 
lol
 
7:17 AM
I was thinking back to whether or not I trolled as Shisui.
I don't think I did. Shisui must've been on his best behaviour!
 
you had a japanese avatar, right?
 
Yep! That was Uchiha Shisui, wielder of the Mangekyō Sharingan.
 
I recall now.
Strange how the image triggers the memories.
 
Mhm! Certain words too!
Ack, I didn't realise the time. Gotta run!
See ya!
 
Skull patrol.
 
7:23 AM
yep
@Khallil later pal
 
What method should be adopted when we committed to doing some problems but, are feeling very tired.
 
the method of dealwithit
 
7:50 AM
oh! thanx.
is it provable that np-hard problems are essentially hard, and can't be solved in polynomial time?
 
the opposite method being getsomesleep
@user38975 have you read this‌​?
 
8:08 AM
So, there does exist proof that it can't be solved in poly-time.
b'coz gerard t'hooft recently said that quantum mechanics has an underlying deterministic structure. In case that's true, larger quantum computers under construction won't work
 
@Chris'ssis I am now...
 
@robjohn You should be sleeping.
 
@JasperLoy I would be if it weren't for these infernal pings :-p
 
@user38975 You should take a nap. Never do math when feeling tired.
I can change my username in 9 hours. I am thinking of what to use this time.
 
look what I just found :D
 
8:24 AM
@IceBoy I will try to write "The Loy Lectures in Mathematics" in future.
 
lol
 
It is very sad that Rudin's Functional Analysis hardback is out of print. There are still copies being sold though, and the paperback is still in print.
 
8:36 AM
Good morning (or whatever it is in your TZ)
 
How i can count percentage of my win rate for my games? win games / (wins+loses) * 100 ? so why then if i have 1 win and 100 loses its show 0.99% why not 1%?
 
1 + 100 = 101
total number^ of games
 
anyway make it more accurate? without round
 
(1/101)*100
= 0.990099%
 
seriously, I liked skullpatrol better
 
8:50 AM
so how i can get my 1 lose from 0.99 % ? cause 1% from 100 its 1 not 0.99
 
@crazypotato what do you mean?
@crazypotato you have played 101 total games, right?
 
k got it now:| i failed
 
9:09 AM
@robjohn I forgot what I wanted to tell you.
 
Seriously, @Chris'ssis, how're you computing that Euler series without any special functions? The best of all my methods use at least polylogarithms!
 
9:25 AM
@BalarkaSen It's a pretty long story. I'll show you when I'm going to put it on paper. I use a very brilliant trick.
 
OK. Do let me know! =)
 
:D
@BalarkaSen I wonder if I'm the only one that has ever managed to do that ... :D
I want to add these things in my book.
 
Might just be.
@Chris'ssis First, you need to write a paper.
And afterwards you can just refer the paper in your book.
 
@BalarkaSen I already wrote some papers ... (today I just found one of them was rejected from a certain magazine ...)
 
@Chris'ssis Did you post the preprints somewhere?
like arxiv?
 
9:29 AM
@BalarkaSen No.
 
and which magazine are you talking about?
 
@BalarkaSen Monthly
 
AMM?
 
For what reason was it rejected?
 
@BalarkaSen Yeap.
 
9:30 AM
@Chris'ssis OK... why was it rejected?
 
@Chris'ssis It happens.
 
Hi all
 
@Chris'ssis Oh noes. You need to look for correct places to post your papers.
 
@robjohn Would I be right in saying that x_n = a - 1/n where a > 0 is an example of a strictly increasing sequence that converges?
 
@BalarkaSen Yeah, and I worked with another mathematician on that article. Believe me, it's crazy awesome, not because it's mine. If you see it you'll wonder if it comes directly from Ramanujan.
 
9:33 AM
@JohnJack yes. You don't need $a\gt0$
 
Anyway!
 
@Chris'ssis You can post the preprint at arxiv and decide later about posting them in journals.
 
@BalarkaSen @robjohn I'm not discouraged at all, the value of our work remains the same.
 
@Chris'ssis Can the other mathematician take you as a grad student?
 
@robjohn Okay thanks, one thing. Also is it equivalent to state that a sequence has no supremum and a sequence is not bounded, using the completeness axiom?
 
9:36 AM
@IceBoy I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
brb
 
@JohnJack in a complete space, no supremum is equivalent to unbounded above.
 
@robjohn it should be no supremum = no upper bound. You could have a decreasing sequence with a suprmemum but which is unbounded below.
 
@JohnJack yeah
 
Differentiation techniques - take $$\frac{(x-1)^3}{2x-1}$$. I started by multiplying out the numerator and got into a mess. Clearly chain rule seems better for this. Is it fair to say that chain rule is generally preferable to multiplying out powers?
 
@topper Yes.
 
9:50 AM
@JasperLoy Thanks. Live and learn
 
10:01 AM
When the derivative of a function is a rational and one wants to find the second derivative in order to ascertain the nature of the extrema, is it really okay just to check against the derivative of the numerator of the first derivative?
If so, why?
 
No, it's not ok.
What you want is the sign of the second derivative at the points where the first derivative is zero, right?
That sign will involve the numerator and the denominator of the second derivative.
If two numbers have the same sign their quotient is positive, if two numbers have opposite signs their quotient is negative.
 
10:21 AM
That's what I thought. I now see why it is relevant in my particular case though. Because the denominator of the first derivative is $(2x-1)^2$, so it's always positive. Smart move!
 
11:05 AM
@robjohn do you see a nice way of writing $$\sum_{k=0}^n \frac{ H_{k+1}}{n-k+1}$$?
 
 
2 hours later…
12:42 PM
Is it correct to say that $$\lim_{ x \to -1}\frac{xe^{2x}+e^{2x}}{2x^2+x-1}$$ evaluates to $\frac00$ therefore I should proceed with L'hopital's?
 
@topper Yes, that is an option
 
@topper Actually, you should first simplify it.
It can be done without L'Hopital.
 
$$\lim_{ x \to -1}\frac{e^{2x}(x+1)}{2x^2+x-1}$$?
 
mmhmm
 
@topper $$\lim_{x\to-1}e^{2x}\frac{x+1}{(x+1)(2x-1)}$$
 
12:50 PM
@topper The factor of $\exp(2x)$ doesn't really play any role here. Think of the fraction.
@robjohn I'd have much preferred him to figure it out by himself. sigh
 
$$\lim_{ x \to -1}\frac{e^{2x}(x+1)}{(2x-1)(x+1)}$$ then cancel?
 
@BalarkaSen all I did was factor... sheesh (and he did it any way :-p)
 
@topper Yes, do that.
@robjohn Yes, well, he finished it by himself =P
 
$$\lim_{ x \to -1}\frac{e^{2x}}{2x-1}$$
 
mmhmm
 
12:52 PM
Great, @robjohn I didn't see yours till later ;)
 
@topper I knew you were on the right track when you factored the numerator. You could use L'Hospital on the fraction (leaving the $e^{2x}$ out) or factor the denominator
 
I need to go read up on how to factor quadratics where $a\neq0$
 
factoring is always the first thing you look for
 
@IceBoy Which is why I have to read up on it. I panic when $a\neq0$, can't continue like that
 
good plan :-)
look up "guidelines for factoring completely"
 
12:57 PM
@Chris'ssis not right off...
 
Huy
@topper: Just factor $a = a_1 \cdot a_2$ and then try to write the quadratic polynomial as $(a_1 x + \dots) \cdot (a_2 x + \dots)$. Since there are usually several ways to factor $a$, you'll have to try out and consider the other factors ($b$ and $c$) too when choosing $a_1, a_2$.
 
According to the stack of past papers I have here, apparently $a=2$ all the time. whistle
I'm going to go with $2 \times 1$
 
Huy
@topper: Yeah, for $a=2$ you won't have many possibilities. :P
 
Welcome @AlejandraMoreno have you met @DanielFischer next to you in the avatar line?
 
1:16 PM
I'm not looking for a solution please, but for $$\lim_{ x \to \infty}\frac{e^{2x}}{2x-1}$$ (same thing but tending to infinity), would you invoke L'hopital as 1) it's indeterminate $\frac\infty\infty$ and 2) I can't do the "take the highest powers of x and compare coefficients" as the numerator is "problematic". Just looking for confirmation of my strategy, not a solution please :)
 
who? lol
 
@AlejandraMoreno it is me now :-)
 
:D
what brings you to here?
 
missclick magic
D:
 
1:22 PM
askaway
 
Hello @AlejandraMoreno is that you in the picture? You are very beautiful!
 
@JasperLoy yeah its me, thanks, but should buy glasses! haha
 
Do you like math @AlejandraMoreno?
 
@IceBoy kinda, but im in computer science
 
ok, so discrete or concrete math
as Knuth calls it
 
1:34 PM
When I cancel part of the denominator as per above, is it fair to say that I should use the original denominator, not the "new" denominator when deciding what the domain of the function is i.e. which values of x would give zero in the denominator?
 
@topper Yes, you should use the original function to decide the original function's domain!
 
yes
 
:)
tricky business
 
For example, the domain of the function 1 is the reals, but the domain of the function x/x is the nonzero reals.
 
Sweet example
 
1:37 PM
I usually give the easiest examples, but others like to give the hardest ones.
Similarly, I only answer easy questions on this site, and leave the hard ones to the others.
 
@IceBoy Hey, changed your username?
I see why you named it that way. :)
 
Following on from the above function, let's say it's undefined at $x = 1$. Then I go to find the limit of the function as x tends to 1, to understand if I have an asymptote or a discontinuity. When I do my substitution of 1, can I then use the function that I've cancelled, or do I again have to use the original function?
I think the former, but I want to be 100% sure
 
@ParthKohli :D
 
Hi, I dropped in to see if there is a good link that I can point a new user to regarding using the LaTeX formating in questions
 
@Dave Do you want a full LaTeX guide instead?
 
1:47 PM
No, I was hoping there'd be a bare bones one tailored for new(er) users of this site
 
Hello @MattЭллен, lol.
 
i.e. just: put your equations inside of $ ... $, use ^ for exponents etc., kind of a help page for people who are familiar with math markup
 
@MattЭллен Welcome...
 
thanks :)
 
1:49 PM
:-O
 
@JasperLoy I was hoping there'd be a bare bones one (i.e. just put equations inside $...$, use ^ for exponentation etc.) tailored for newer users of this site
 
@Dave Hmm, I have no idea where to find that.
 
624
Q: MathJax basic tutorial and quick reference

MJD To see how any of the formulas were made in any question or answer, including this one, use the "edit" link to view the complete source. To quickly see the source of a single expression, right-click on it and choose "Show Math As > TeX Commands". (Note that in some browsers, such as Firefox, th...

 
Let's take $$f(x) = \frac{2x^2+x-1}{x^2-1}$$ which becomes $$ \frac{2x-1}{x-1}$$ after simplification. I know I can't use the simplified form when checking discontinuities - is there any other area where I should be using the original form?
WTF - is Wolfram wrong at wolframalpha.com/input/… - surely when $x=-1$ then $x^2-1 = 0$?
 
2:08 PM
@topper I agree with Wolfram there. What did you expect?
 
ׂI expect not to get stupider, but I am. How is that denominator $2$? Surely $(-1)^2 - 1 = 0$?
 
@topper $-1^2=-1$, and $(-1)^2=1$.
 
@topper After simplification, you have $\frac{2x-1}{x-1}$. Insert $x = -1$, you get $\frac{-3}{-2}$.
 
@IceBoy thanks
 
@Dave thanks for asking :)
 
2:13 PM
Hi
 
@IceBoy Another LaTeX guide is here tobi.oetiker.ch/lshort/lshort.pdf
 
Hi @DanielFischer could I ask one thing. If you have an increasing sequence $x_n$ which is bounded then by the monotone convergence theorem it follows that the sequence converges to $\sup_n x_n$, is it true then that max x_n = sup_n x_n?
 
@JohnJack There may not be a maximum.
 
@JohnJack It need not have a maximum, e.g. $1-2^{-n}$.
 
@DanielFischer Sure. And before simplification?
 
2:16 PM
Yeah I just realized that now. Thanks.
 
@topper There's no need to look at it before simplification, but if we insert $x = -1+u$, we have $$\frac{2(u-1)^2 + (u-1) - 1}{(u-1)^2-1} = \frac{2u^2-3u}{u^2-2u},$$ and the limit of that as $u\to 0$ is $\frac{-3}{-2} = \frac{3}{2}$.
 
@DanielFischer Awesome! I think I got a bit thrown when I realized that I couldn't use the simplified form to see were the function has discontinuities. Suddenly I was like, "when can and can't I use the simplified form?"...
 
@topper Just remember that the simplified form and original form are equal except at certain points.
 
Haha, yes! Great way of putting it
 
@DanielFischer Would you say that the sequence x_n = tan n has accumulation points?
 
2:22 PM
@topper You can use the simplified form to see true discontinuities. Only for artificial pseudo-problems you need to see where the original denominator has zeros, but the simplified function is continuous.
@JohnJack Sure. There are (positive) integers arbitrarily close to integer multiples of $\pi$, so for example $0$ is an accumulation point.
 
@JasperLoy thanks :-)
 
@Parth Hey.
 
@DanielFischer So you would get x_n= tan n = 0 for infinitely many n, since tan is periodic?
 
@JohnJack No, $\tan x = 0 \iff x \in \pi\cdot\mathbb{Z}$, so for an integer $n$, $\tan n$ is zero only for $n = 0$. But $\tan n$ comes arbitrarily close to $0$ for integers $n\neq 0$.
 
@DanielFischer I think I understand more or less. Does the continuity of tan on the intervals [0,pi] play a role?
 
2:37 PM
$\tan$ is continuous on $\left[ \left(k-\frac{1}{2}\right)\pi,\left(k+\frac{1}{2}\right)\pi\right]$. The continuity of $\tan$ at $k\pi$ plays a role when we deduce that $0$ is an accumulation point of $\tan n$ from the fact that there are multiples of $\pi$ arbitrarily close to integers. To just deduce that $\tan n$ has accumulation points (in $\mathbb{R}$, the existence of accumulation points in $\overline{R} = [-\infty,+\infty]$ is clear), weaker assumptions suffice, but the continuity and
periodicity make it easier.
 
@DanielFischer Can I ask you if a proof makes sense. Something unrelated. But about sequences?
 
Sure you can ask.
Unless your keyboard just broke ;)
 
@DanielFischer Okay thanks :) it's going to take a couple of minutes to type, it's not too long.
 
How do I type +-1 in the MSE editor such that + is on top of - ?
:)
 
\pm
 
2:50 PM
@rehband $\pm 1$
 
Got it, thank you!
 
@skull, is there a story behind your new nick?
 
needed a change
in English Language & Usage, 2 mins ago, by Ice Boy
i need to start cutting down on my internet time too
 
Okay, that explains why no longer "skullpatrol", but is there a story behind "Ice Boy"?
 
yes, it complements "ice girl"
 
2:53 PM
'kay, and what is "ice girl"?
 
morning
 
afternoon
 
Ah, ic
 
@DanielFischer Let $a$ be a positive real number. Define the sequence $\{a_n\}$ by $a_1 = a$ and $a_{n+1} = \frac{1}{a_n} + a_n$ for $n \geq 1$. I want to show that this sequence is unbounded.

Proof: Suppose that the sequence is bounded. Let $K = \sup a_n $. Then there exists $n \in \mathbb{N}$ a_n such that $$K-1 < a_n < K$$ therefore $$K < \frac{1}{a_{n-1}} + a_{n-1} +1 = a_{n} + 1$$ $a_n + 1 > a_{n+1}$ because $a_{n+1} - a_{n} = \frac{1}{a_n}$ so it is enough to show $\frac{1}{a_n} < 1$ therefore $K < a_n + 1$. Contradiction since $K$ is supremum.
 
bah, I'm having trouble getting up at 730 and soon I'll need to be up at 530-6
 
@DanielFischer I know an alternative proof, I just want to know what you think of this attempt.
 
@MikeMiller work your way up to it slowly
btw @MikeMiller there was an eagle in here looking for you
he got his feathers clipped with a 30 minute suspension
 
@JohnJack You get $a_{n+1} < a_n + 1$, not $a_{n+1} > K$. It's fixable, but as is, you're not getting where you want. What you need is that $\frac{1}{a_n} > \frac{1}{K}$ under the assumption. That gives you a lower bound for $a_{n+1}$.
@MikeMiller Easy. Don't get up in the middle of the night, stay up until after.
 
@IceBoy I saw that... bizarre conversation
@DanielF I just need to push my bedtime earlier. But I like sleeping at midnight.
 
3:02 PM
I think he'll be back...
...pedro annoyed him with his dry humour.
 
@DanielFischer Also is there any reason to believe that $\frac{1}{a_n} < 1$?
 
@MikeMiller But if you have to get up half past five, you'd need to start sleeping at eight or so. Urgh.
 
which is required to state $a_n + 1 > a_{n+1}$
 
@JohnJack For $n > 1$. For $n = 1$, it depends on the choice of $a$. But, for $x > 0$, you always have $x+\frac{1}{x} \geqslant 2$, so $a_n \geqslant 2$ for all $n > 1$.
 
@DanielF I aim to get 7 hours a night, so really I only need to be in bed by 10. But that's still horrifying!
 
3:10 PM
7h a night :O how lucky
 
@MikeMiller you gotta do, what you gotta do
@Hippalectryon how many hours do you get?
 
@IceBoy 6-1.. so 5
Sometimes 6
 
@DanielFischer So it is the reverse inequality that is needed, $a_n + 1 < a_{n+1}$?
 
@JohnJack Something like that. It doesn't work with $1$, since $a_{n-1} = a_n + \frac{1}{a_n} \leqslant a_n + \frac{1}{2}$ for $n \geqslant 2$. But if $a_n < K$, then ...
 
I get 5-6 hours of sleep as well, @Hippa.
 
3:18 PM
@Khallil :D
Welcome to the club
 
^_^
Have you seen The O.C.?
 
What is that
 
I just answered 2 lhf on math, please upvote me!
 
@IceBoy (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
 
3:20 PM
:-O
 
That's the description of the show. It's one of my favourites!
 
Never heard of it
 
You should give it a try when you get time. Episode 1 is enough to decide on whether you'll like the show or not.
 
@DanielFischer You saying proof doesn't work for $n=1$?
 
@Hippalectryon If I can get 7 a night, so can you :)
 
3:32 PM
@MikeMiller I'm younger I need more sleep :P
 
@Sawarnik Hello.
 
all the more reason
 
mystical greetings everyone
 
@MikeMiller You only sleep 7 hours a night/
 
haha
 
3:34 PM
I need at least 10 hours.
 
I no longer count how much I sleep a day.
 
@JohnJack For $n = 1$, you have no restrictions on $\frac{1}{a_n}$, it can be any positive number. But since you're looking at the limiting behaviour, you can ignore $a_1$, or "re-index and assume $a_1 \geqslant 2$".
 
@MikeMiller And I don't sleep at all.
 
I've "mastered" the chain rule (I can do it, it doesn't scare me). Now to try the same for integration by parts...
 
Being awake is overrated...You need about only about 7 hours of being awake for a good nights rest.
 
3:39 PM
Do you have an chain rule questions that I could try, @topper?
(Also, A.J. Topper was a commentator in the hit anime Beyblade. He's extremely funny. That's why it was a compliment to call you A.J.!)
Hey, @BalarkaZen!
 
A.J. Berrick is a great mathematician.
 
@Khallil Nothing really, as my derivative questions aren't sorted by rule type. Besides, far too easy for anyone here
 
*any
Oh, don't worry about it then. Have you studied geometric series before, @topper?
 
@Khallil Directly, a very long time ago (20 years). But it hasn't cropped up in my current syllabus
 
Ah, I see.
 
3:50 PM
@BalarkaSen Are you there?
 
yes.
 
Are you awake, @Parth?
 
Because I have a stupid question, I'll go to the Root.
@Khallil Yes.
 
Mystical greetings lol :P
 
@rehband Why is everyone saying that ?
 
3:57 PM
Back off, @rehband, I have that phrase trademarked.
 
@Hippalectryon I just said it because Balarka Sen said it. It sounds nice
@MikeMiller It's yours?! I copied it from Barlaka!
 
@rehband nuh-huh. It's Mike's.
 
Ah. My lawyers will seize him momentarily.
 
it sounds like something a magician would say
 
@MikeMiller Haha :D
@IceBoy ...or a Mathe-magician?
 
3:59 PM
Sounds like number terrorists.
 
@rehband exactly :D
 
@BalarkaSen Lol
 

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