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12:04 AM
@anon I question what "right place" means, in the context of the cos = sin question.
 
right place and time means a question that requires little-to-no thought (and energy) for a fun answer
 
Your answer is a Bill D. answer - slick and appealing to those who already know the solution. But what about the OP?
Ah... like W !
 
OP isn't my only audience.
bbl dinner
 
kk
 
Hey, The Chaz!
 
12:07 AM
Howdy
Is the reason for your (relative) absence in the past few months public knowledge, @t.b.?
 
Well, not really. I've got a lot of stuff to take care of that is more vital to me than participating here.
 
Ok. Didn't know how else to ask... :)
 
I didn't flag it @AsafKaragila. Stop it.
 
What is this ^^?
 
12:14 AM
I don't want to be owner of this room.
 
Congrats.
 
@anon: I don't like it when others attack your answer in what seems an effort to promote their own answer.
 
This is strange...
 
@robjohn I don't like it when people spoonfeed 3 answers before the OP shows any work. But hey..
 
Okay, you need time to grow up.
 
@Asaf: whats happening with the room ownership?
 
@TheChaz was that a comment on something I did?
 
12:19 AM
Well, I suggest that one of you assigns the room ownership to e.g. robjohn.
 
@robjohn No, I was referring to the exact answer(s) that you were!
 
None of my business.
 
What's going on in here?
 
@TheChaz okay :-) I was worried I had transgressed somehow.
 
We're getting all kinds of flags from this room.
 
12:20 AM
^flagged.
 
You know neither of you needs to be owner? Why are you passing it between each other?
 
@robjohn Well it's certainly a popular behavior. I was trying to teach the OP, and then he got 4 answers (one of which was later deleted).
 
@MichaelMrozek He's angry because his account got suspended, he's the owner of the room.
 
Is it automatically re-adding him when you remove yourself?
 
No, I add him and remove myself.
 
12:23 AM
Skip the first part and everything would stop
 
I didn't flag anything.
Okay.
 
@MichaelMrozek you mean leave the room owned only by Marc.
Then the back and forth would stop :-)
 
@robjohn Sure. Or add your mods if you want, but if neither person wants to be owner, it seems like both people not being owner solves the problem
 
I don't know if I've ever met Marc.
 
I don't think he's ever posted here.
 
12:28 AM
He co-wrote chat, so we've all met him in spirit
 
@MichaelMrozek Ah, that's cool :-)
I've been trying to figure out why the auto-render stopped working on the MathJax bookmark.
Marc might be able to answer that.
 
Did it? It works for me.
Oh, auto.
 
@Gigili yeah, you need to rerender every so often
 
Right, was it different?
 
Yes, it used to render automatically without needing to click the bookmark again.
 
12:32 AM
yeah, it used to use the ajaxComplete event to render automatically
 
Test: $F(t) = \int_{0}^t f(x)\,dx$
 
Umm, haven't noticed that.
 
what tb wrote doesn't render
until you say something
It renders and then derenders almost immediately :-)
 
@robjohn Renders fine for me...
 
Does that render $F(t) = \int_{0}^t f(x)\,dx$ right now?
 
12:34 AM
If you click on it once, it'll render other messages automatically. I guess you need to activate it or something
 
@DavidK does this render even before you say anything? $F(t) = \int_{0}^t f(x)\,dx$
 
demo-effect?
 
@tb Yes
 
@robjohn both formulas rendered immediately for me...
$F(t) = \int_{0}^t f(x)\,dx$
 
Hmm
 
12:35 AM
This one, too.
all the better then :)
 
@robjohn Not sure what you mean by "before you say..." but it renders for me immediately and stays rendered.
 
Yeah
 
once I spoke, everything rendered, but without speaking new things do not render, without using the bookmark.
spoke = typed
 
Oh so it depends on you.
Please speak.
 
@Gigili I don't think it does
 
12:37 AM
Could someone post a formula again, please?
 
$F(t) = \int_{0}^t f(x)\,dx$
 
Immediately rendered.
 
odd
 
Same here
 
@tb would you type that formula?
 
12:38 AM
Maybe because you post the same formula each time
 
$F(t) = \int_{0}^t \sin(x)\,dx$
 
Nope it never renders
but now it has
@Gigili what browser are you using?
 
Chrome.
 
@robjohn: I recently updated my FF to 11.0, might it have to do with that? If I remember correctly you're using an old version of FF.
 
Hmmm... there is an update for Firefox, I'll be back in a bit.
 
12:39 AM
Gigili A/S/L
 
^ that's not the kind of thing you ask a queen!
 
@tb I'm using 9.0.1, but it was up to date a month or so ago
 
Hah. I can't help it. It was too funny when it happened the first time!
 
Ah So Lame.
 
I am downloading the update.
 
12:41 AM
Okay, see you in a bit, robjohn!
 
Enjoy the update.
 
okay, applying the update. bbiab
Okay, I am running 11.0
 
$F(t) = \int_{0}^t \sin(x)\,dx$
 
ack, no
it didn't render until I said "ack, not"
 
Do you run the MathJax 1.0 version or the 2.0 version?
(I think I still have the 1.0 version, but I'm not sure).
$f: A \to B$
 
12:46 AM
Same happens here, it doesn't render if it's the last message.
 
@Gigili when you typed that, did it then render?
 
Yes, exactly when I hit enter
 
yep, that's exactly what I see.
 
@TheChaz some people are funny, while others...
 
Oh dear. At least when I visit MSE while drunk, it's a lot more obvious...
 
12:48 AM
@robjohn for me all formulas were rendered immediately after posting and they stayed rendered.
 
Do you think Asaf is around?
I want to add him back.
 
He last visited main a quarter of an hour ago
 
@tb and you are using FF 11?
 
Has anyone ever noticed the invisible text on Asaf's page?
 
Okay, buckle up everyone and don't flag anything while I'm doing it.
 
12:52 AM
@Gigili was he suspended?
 
@robjohn I guess so but I'm not sure
 
Why don't we just make skullpatrol the owner of this room?
 
@TheChaz he doesn't have an account, does he?
 
I have been somewhat inactive, so maybe not...?
 
12:53 AM
 
@robjohn I think he does.
 
@TheChaz he has a chat persona, but if you look at the Mathematics persona, it shows no account
 
Pfft.
 
@tb really?
 
Well... good luck finding someone with his skill set to represent the chat room.
 
12:54 AM
@robjohn this one.
 
Oh, I forgot to add Rob as well. Sorry for being silly.
 
I clicked "Ignore Stack everywhere", so I can't see any of the changes... also, "Stack" is not in the user list, so I can't undo it!!
 
:)
 
@tb Ah, he got a new character.
 
@TheChaz try this
 
12:56 AM
User -2, I see... :-|
 
@tb bingo. Thanks. I'll have to keep this in mind, just in case...
 
@TheChaz it might be just a flared temper
@TheChaz and I am sure he is watching the room.
 
@robjohn Oh. He's the one who received my thorough explanation of factoring trinomials.
And I still can't believe how the "guess and check" method is so prevalent...
 
@TheChaz factoring what?
 
Who are you talking about?
 
1:00 AM
@Gigili I am talking about Asaf
 
I think we are talking about the OP of this question
and identifying him as skullpatrol.
 
@TheChaz heh
Shoot, it's late. I have to take Lilly to the park. BBL
 
chow
 
Bye robjohn.
@TheChaz so, what are you up to these days, if I may ask?
 
School, work, family, frisbee, church, music, board games.
Lots of weddings recently, and one funeral (paternal grandfather) in the near future.
 
1:07 AM
Oh, I'm sorry to hear about the last bit.
 
Yeah. My son and I visited him at the hospital in Texas over the weekend and said goodbye. He's in hospice care, so no more antibiotics, feeding tube, dialysis, etc.
He fought the good fight!
 
What a complicated situation it is, one doesn't know to be happy or sad with their death.
 
Indeed. I won't bring my metaphysical beliefs into this, but suffice it to say that it's more tears of hope and joy.
 
Precisely.
 
And on the school-front, I am drowning in Clifford algebras, tensors, and differential forms..........................
 
1:18 AM
Oy, I loved Clifford algebras. Beautiful stuff.
 
I really need to stop being a night owl.
 
@Gigili: why?
 
It's annoying
 
@TheChaz What book are you learning that from?
@Gigili I didn't find it too hard to adopt other schedules, when I really felt the need. I got used to different daily rhythms pretty quickly.
 
I was in bed all night trying to sleep but it's just I'm not sleepy at all.
The problem is, you need double rest sleeping during the day instead of night
 
1:22 AM
Suppose I have a category with all pullbacks. Consider the pullback $X \times_B Y$, and suppose I have an automorphism $Y \to Y$. Do I necessarily get an automorphism $X \times_B Y \to X \times_B Y$?
 
Good night.
 
Good night, Gigili!
@ZhenLin I may be missing something, but I don't see how.
 
Well, that's why I was confused too! But then it turns out I drew the wrong diagram.
(and I forgot to specify that the automorphism $Y \to Y$ is an automorphism over $B$.)
 
But then it should work, pretty directly, no?
 
1:34 AM
Indeed.
 
I'm always a bit afraid about my intuition since I mostly think about additive categories, if at all.
 
@TheChaz: Hey, I'm not the one who brought up the guess-and-check method. Skull's question was itself about the method. || I recall when I was in elementary school and we were taught the guess-and-check method, I caught on to the formulas behind them (this is before we had the symbols to articulate algebra or formulas), so I would just put the answer down pat, and my teacher marked these wrong because I didn't guess! :/
 
@TheChaz I haven't read that one. But if it is comparable in quality to his book on inequalities then it must be quite a joyful read.
 
@anon I can totally relate. Some of us were good at "guessing" (by intuiting ways to eliminate wrong options), but...
And in my years as an educator, I have taken a special interest in such factoring methods.
@tb Oh you know me - finding joy in all sorts of advanced math that I don't understand!
 
@TheChaz but what is your motivation? Differential geometry or physics?
(for reading about Clifford algebras)
 
1:39 AM
Unfortunately, it seems you cannot understand profinite groups without a good background in general topology. I don't know what "Hausdorff" or "Tychonoff" mean, argh!
 
@tb It's a special topics seminar, taught by John Ryan. I don't know what my motivation is for much, anymore!
 
@anon Hausdorff: any two distinct points admit disjoint neighborhoods. Tychonoff: usually (Hausdorff +) for every point $x$ outside a closed set $A$ there is a continuous function to the unit interval such that $f(x) = 1$ and $f|_A = 0$.
 
@anon: But ultimately profinite groups are limits of inverse systems of finite groups. That they have a certain kind of topology is just a bonus!
 
@Zhen: Wait, all profinite groups are ultimately limits of inverse systems?! @t.b. I was reading about the "Tychonoff topology" given to a direct product of spaces.
 
That's just the product topology.
The name Tychonoff is probably meant to remind you of Tychonoff's theorem.
 
1:45 AM
Yes, it stated that next, but said the proof was involved so was omitted (fine by me).
 
@ZhenLin I believe Tychonoff introduced the product topology in the same paper where he proved the theorem.
 
Ah, that makes sense. Can't prove a good theorem without a good definition. :p
 
(I am browsing through this article/note/whatever it is)
 
All profinite groups are limits: if I remember correctly, they are the limit of the inverse system of the quotients by open subgroups of finite index.
 
@anon It is a good exercise in diagonalization to convince yourself that a countable product of compact metric spaces is compact.
And I think that would be enough for many purposes in number theory.
 
2:08 AM
Oooooh. The atheoblogosphere is alight with mythicist-vs.-historicist Jesus debate.
 
Got your popcorn ready?
 
Indeed. Too tired to wade through it tonight though.
 
That raises a new line of debate, viz kettlecorn vs regular popcorn.
 
I didn't know there were different kinds.
 
Well then there's candy corn, but that's different
 
2:15 AM
So, I looked up kettlecorn and figured it's what I know as popcorn. What's regular popcorn?
 
- sugar, + butter
 
So kettlecorn is always sweet?
Or is that just for the color?
 
As far as I know! It looks the same as regular. Then there's caramel corn, which has a thick coat of stickyness
 
uurgh
 
caramel corn is good.
I think the difference is how the popcorn is cooked, between kettle / regular.
I was a boy scout and set local popcorn-selling records, I should know this :P
 
2:21 AM
@anon That's actually what I was trying to find out: I only know the kettle variant. What's the regular way of doing it? Microwave?
 
Yes.
 
What about the old-fashioned way?
Stove top?
 
The Frying Pan is having a rather ... heated discussion. slips on shades.
 
How do you heat the kettle/frying pan otherwise (apart from having a machine?)
I'm probably not in a civilized enough place to know all this.
@TheChaz I assume that's not what you intended, but it seems to have worked :)
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "otherwise." Microwaves don't heat kettles or pans up...
Kettle corn you get already cooked and put in a tin can.
 
2:25 AM
@anon Yeah, you totally blew that CSI scene!
You put kernels of corn in a pan with oil and they explode, I think!
Then there's Jiffy Pop
 
There's more going wrong there than I care to mention...
 
I'm not sure I've ever seen a question with +/- 6. Extreme case of laziness.
That's where I would start...
 
It's questions (voting patterns, etc) like that which make ME long for a more philosophically united community.
*fixed :)
 
What I saw was the third copy-pasted simple homework question posted in a row. No interest in helping there.
 
2:42 AM
lol, I wish it were 1000
 
Quite the optimist :)
 
kettle corn has extra butter, salt, and sugar.
 
2:58 AM
now that I think about it, caramel popcorn might be the only exception to my personal "vegetables and sweets don't mix" rule.
 
Wendy's french fries in Frosty??? Wendy's...
 
nope.
 
Hawaiian pizza?
 
nope.
 
Sweet relish!?!?!
 
3:01 AM
nope.
 
Last shot: ants on a log?
 
(I expected you to say sweet potatoes before any of these items. But I don't like those either.)
Actually, I do like celery+peanut butter.
 
Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
(I'm assuming you use the adulterated, sweetened peanut butter...!)
 
But celery is virtually tasteless, so that's cheating. :P
 
I'm probably missing something but I don't understand how any of Ryan's suggestions help.
 
3:10 AM
Does anyone know about $\textit{fractional linear transformations}$ and their matrices?
 
If nothing else, the OP was sufficiently warned about the impending closure of this question.
 
Yes, that and the link to here might even be a helpful suggestion :)
 
You can italicize by putting text between italics. Anyway, you might as well ask your question David.
 
So here's the problem statement: Prove that the automorphisms of the rational function field $k(t)$ which fix $k$ are precisely the fractional linear transformations determined by $ t\mapsto\frac{at+b}{ct+d}$ for $a,b,c,d\in k,ad-bc\neq0$.
 
Use *fractional linear transformations* to get the italics
 
3:13 AM
I've established that if $\sigma$ is an automorphism that fixes $k$, then $\sigma(t)=\frac{p(t)}{q(t)}$ (in lowest terms). And that $\deg\{p\}+\deg\{q\}\geq1$.
@tb Ah. Thanks.
 
The basics on formatting can be found here
 
What I want is $\deg\{p\}=\deg\{q\}=1$ so that $\sigma(t)=\frac{at+b}{ct+d}$.
That is, I've got the proof all the way up to showing that $ad-bc\neq0$.
I'm trying to come up with a way to conclude that, by arguing that the associated matrix is nonsingular.
 
Well, $\sigma(x)=t$ for some $x\in k(t)$. Is that a useful direction?
 
@anon Well, that does confirm part of my proof that I felt "iffy" about.
 
@DavidK There's also this thread here.
 
3:20 AM
@tb Thanks for that. I have already consulted that thread. The thread develops several facts that are very useful for this exercise. However, unless I missed it, Arturo does not make mention of the requirement that $ad-bc\neq0$.
 
@tb I needed a little comic relief, or whatever that was...
 
On the one hand, it seems clear that $a$ and $c$ are not both zero, since that suggests that $\sigma(t)=\frac{b}{d}$.
Hmmm.... and similarly I suppose that $b$ and $d$ are not both zero since that suggests $\sigma(t)=\frac{a}{c}$.
I guess that just leaves $\sigma(t)=\frac{b}{ct+d}$ or $\sigma(t)=\frac{at+b}{d}$. But I haven't found a contradiction for those cases yet.
 
If $ad = bc$ then $(ax+b)c = acx + ad = a(cx + d)$ so the fraction $\frac{ax+b}{cx+d} = \frac{a}{c}$.
(assuming that $c \neq 0$)
@DavidK what's wrong with those? you can easily write down inverses for both (invert the matrices $\left(\begin{smallmatrix} 0 & b \\ c & d\end{smallmatrix}\right)$ and $\left(\begin{smallmatrix} a & b \\ 0 & d\end{smallmatrix}\right)$.
 
\begin{smallmatrix} = semi-inline (not sure if that's helpful or not)
 
thanks
 
3:42 AM
@tb Ok, I just ran through the 4 possibilities in turn: $a=0$, $b=0$, $c=0$ and $d=0$. Each results in a contradiction. I guess I was just hoping for a cleaner way than brute force.
@anon Just so I'm clear about something, this implies that $[k(t):k(\sigma(x))]=1$, right?
 
@DavidK The point is that $ad-bc = 0$ means that the rows of the matrix are linearly dependent, so one is a multiple of the other.
 
t.b.'s case works when $c\ne0$. If $c=0$, then $d\ne0$ (division by 0), along with $ad-bc=0$ implies $a=0$, giving $b/d$ as the ratio. @David: It's an automorphism, so $k(t)=\sigma k(t) = k(\sigma(t))$ (I think...), so yes.
 
I wonder if there's any chance of finding Kleiman's "Algebraic cycles and the Weil conjectures" online. It seems to be an article in a book rather than a journal...
 
@tb @anon Hmm, yes I see. Ok. I've got it now. Thanks again guys!
 
Aha, the Grothendieck circle to the rescue again!
... bah, the Kleiman article is missing. Only the Grothendieck articles are in there...
 
 
1 hour later…
5:15 AM
Hi folks
Hi @Qiaochu
 
5:36 AM
Morning.
 
A/S/L EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to bed :)
 
@tb : D
@tb Btw, I am not sure we were talking about the same thing there: My day was spoiled because I couldn't make sense of your comment about homomorphisms on $S^1$. Not because of your "this is what you get when". : )
 
What the...?
Just looking at the transcript: Teddy, teddy... sigh
 
6:09 AM
8-).
Asaf is dead, long live robjohn!
 
Long live robjohn! All glory to the hypnotoad.
 
I hope Asaf gets back. We probably might have been little awkward to him today, gathering from the transcript.
 
Hi
what happened ?
 
And, Asaf's about reads: See you in Another World.
I am afraid, he might not return.
What the hell?
@Asaf Please Come back. We want to you at the helm here.
 
Baby come back.
5
 
6:29 AM
Did someone write a mail to him, asking him on our behalf to return?
@Jonas Did you ^?
 
was it the flagging ?
 
Looks like it.
Sadly, it has all happened in minutes. And, almost nobody reacted well to this.
 
OH well
ALL HAIL ROBJOHN
 
In mind, I think, when trying to keep an high rep user away, the consensus of the community must have been a priority and not a mod who is almost unaware of our community acting on a flag.
No, I am not against Robjohn or something, but I am not letting down Asaf, We want him back here.
 
=(
?
Eg, tb why did you remove?
 
6:48 AM
I want Asaf to come back, that's all.
7
 
SIGH
Today has not been my day
 
 
2 hours later…
8:45 AM
One to last class of analysis 2 given :-).
 
9:24 AM
@JonasTeuwen ?
I just noticed that Asaf has added me as a room owner. I really hope that that doesn't mean he is not planning on coming back.
@KannappanSampath I don't want Asaf to leave either. Hopefully, when the smoke clears, he will come back.
@tb my feelings, too.
 
9:46 AM
@robjohn I don't think many of the regulars feel differently.
 
@tb I'm sure
 
@robjohn On a completely different note: maybe this is silly, but I was wondering if there was a way of implementing that MathJaX bookmark of yours as an addition to Skype chat. That would be a tremendously useful and convenient thing to have. Do you think that might be feasible without too much effort?
 
@tb I'd have to look into the extensibility of the Skype app
I use skype a lot, and I would definitely like that
MathJax is XML and JavaScript based, so I don't know how it would work in Skype.
 
@robjohn exactly my thinking :) I haven't really thought about it (and I don't think I would be able to implement it even if it were very easy) but I thought I might ask.
 
There is mathjax for gtalk
 
9:58 AM
@MattN where is that?
@MattN Is that like chat for Google?
 
Yes
I'll post the link later, im on phone atm
 

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