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12:00 AM
Oh, I forgot: you have 5 because of the stylish cover page...
 
Hah :-).
Would there be a cemetery for mathematicians in ø, Denmark?
 
:-).
 
Wiley is the worst.
 
Well, it's a tough race between Wiley and Elsevier, I'd say.
 
12:10 AM
Hm. I've never had to buy anything directly from Elsevier.
I think charging $100+ for low-quality paperbacks is crazy.
Oh, hurray. It seems like someone else is publishing Artin's Geometric Algebra now.
For $20.
 
Absolutely. Problem is that a few of them are simply excellent books, like Rudin's Fourier analysis, or Kobayashi-Nomizu, so it's hard to resist buying them.
 
Wiley was charging at least $150 for the same if I remember correctly.
Yes, they have some good ones. That's the problem.
Had to buy Griffiths and Harris, had to buy Cox's Primes of the Form x^2 + ny^2...
 
I understand. See it as a work of art and a historical curiosity: it is difficult to produce such crappy quality nowadays.
 
It's good to see that other people still buy books, though. I can't quite let go of paper.
 
For me, being the son of a librarian it is hard to stop liking books :)
 
12:20 AM
They have closed the mathematics library in Delft :(.
 
But also for articles. If I seriously have to read them, I can't do that on screen. I always need to print them out. Also for reviewing my own texts.
 
But the good thing is that they have sent all the analysis doubles they have double (wrt the central library) to our group :-).
 
@JonasTeuwen What does that mean: no math library anymore or just no free access to the books.
 
@tb No dedicated library for mathematics.
There is a central library where they will put those books in the cellar.
 
So, where are the students supposed to leaf through the books and run into them by accident or semi-accident by going after the subject classification or whatever system they used to have?
 
12:22 AM
Nowhere.
You should request the books. Then you can pick them up in about 20 minutes.
 
20 minutes is a very long time to wait :)
 
Exactly.
 
At least for me when I need to know something immediately, then immediately means immediately. Waiting 20 minutes is a torture when you know exactly where to look.
 
You could push the button "send by internal mail" and get some coffee!
 
Well, the central library at ETH has a 1 hour waiting time. This drives me crazy.
 
12:25 AM
Well, yes. Budget restrictions...
They have a mathematics library?
 
@JonasTeuwen I'd love to say that they will regret that but they won't because they can't measure the damage they cause in numbers...
@JonasTeuwen Yes they do. A pretty decent one.
 
So why go to the central library? :)
 
Some older Journal issues aren't kept there. By Murphy's law you always need an article from the last volume that isn't available electronically and not in the math library.
3
 
Hah!
 
12:41 AM
Good night guys.
 
Good night, Jonas.
 
Thanks.
 
good night
 
1:16 AM
@tb 20 minutes!? how dare they...
 
@robjohn No! It's a whole hour! :s
 
Ouch!
@tb: I am confounded by how many votes some answers get.
I have 17 votes on two answers, but those took one and two months to accumulate.
 
@robjohn Everything above 10 is more luck than merit. Here certainly the repeated bumping of the thread over a few hours (so that it got back to the top again) helped, then the result is somewhat unexpected (that (1+x^a) should contribute something, right?) and then it's easy to understand after all. Another effect at work here is that as soon as an answer got some momentum people don't bother to look at the other answers (if it's got more than 10 votes then it must be pretty good, right?).
So I guess that's why Sasha's answer got more and more votes, while yours and Sivaram's answers were sort of neglected.
 
@tb and the "Google bubble effect" plays a part, because the answer with the highest number of votes rises to the top and so it is the first one people see.
 
Exactly.
 
1:29 AM
Mine was neglected partly because I deleted it for a while and then after discussing it here, decided to undelete it.
So I am not at all worried about the low vote count, but just amazed at the 17 votes that Sasha's answer got.
 
@robjohn 19 =)
 
It's gone up? wow
bubble
 
I had a similar effect with my answer here where the vote count leveled out only over time. (I couldn't believe that people invoke Picard for such a thing)
 
Your votes were not that far off the Chris' though
So his answer did not hide yours.
 
QED
hi
 
1:38 AM
I hate it when I come back to the chat window to see (removed) :-(
2
I feel like I missed something good :-)
 
@robjohn Well, the timeline isn't that detailed anymore, but it levelled out only eventually.
 
@tb how do you get to that page?
I see that Didier referenced an answer of his to a previous problem that is pretty much a duplicate. Why did they both break the integral at 1? It's not necessary.
 
@robjohn You either have to know where it is (change /question/12345/ in to /post/12345/timeline) or you have to install the SE modifications that gives you two additional links (timeline and history) next to link/edit/flag/close links
 
is history just /post/12345/history?
 
@robjohn no, /post/12345/revisions
(minor design flaw in the script, I guess)
@robjohn It amounts to the same, doesn't it? You do the integral twice and exploit the symmetry x -> 1/x, they divide the integral in two pieces and exploit the symmetry on one piece only.
 
1:51 AM
I guess. I like not breaking it up, but that is my personal preference.
I know that in some problems, you have to break the interval up, but not this one. I keep looking for another proof. I think it must exist.
something involving x->x^t or the like
 
2:08 AM
walking the dog. bbl
 
Can somebody tell what is being asked here? It looks like OP is after a "closed form expression" or an expression in terms of special functions, but I'm not entirely sure.
 
The other question the OP points to us a little better. This one's an absolute mess.
Might be a good idea if the OP posts in their native language. Some translator might come along.
 
@Srivatsan Thanks, let's hope somebody speaking Malay will come along :)
 
2:23 AM
Yikes! Let's hope so.
@tb Why is it that I can take some nice idea and make a mess of it? =)
 
These infinite towers would look so much nicer if the dots were diagonally upwards. But unfortunately that doesn't seem to be implemented in MathJax
 
\cdots looks a little weird, yes.
 
@Srivatsan Why a mess, I guess there are enough people speaking Malay, aren't there?
(I know of no one here, but one never knows)
 
Let's see. Do you anyone in this site? [I see you already answered this.]
 
2:43 AM
@Srivatsan I like your hint for (2) in the answer you just wrote, but wouldn't it be nicer to suggest drawing the graphs and imagine them as staircases seen from below, and writing down the lower left corners. This corresponds to (some) finite subsets of N x N.
 
One second. Parsing what you wrote. In general, for the other parts, I am trying to convert all the symbols and equations to words to play up the intuition and play down the full solution. I haven't decided what to do with part (2)
@tb You should also specify the value of the function at that subset, no?
Wait, sorry, I missed something. What's the second N in N x N? Oh, cool. That's a nice idea.
 
@Srivatsan That's taken care of if I'm saying I'm noting the lower left corners of the stairs. From each point in my finite subset of N x N I draw a vertical line and a horizontal line.
 
That's quite clever, tb. =)
One second, I must leave this place now. I will come back after 5-10 minutes.
 
3:29 AM
Back after 5-10 minutes that felt like 30. =)
 
You moved pretty quickly :)
 
I left a coffee shop because they close at 10. I thought of going to another down the road which would've taken 5-10 mins. But then I decided to take the bus and come back to the one closer to my home. That way, I need not wait for a bus at 12.
In fact, I am quite surprised I am back so quickly. =)
 
I see...
I hope this comment doesn't sound too condescending.
 
the undergrad comment?
 
No, my last one. Somehow the link doesn't work.
 
3:35 AM
Well, I didn't read it as condescending.
 
Probably I'm afraid because I never liked hearing: "I can't really tell you much about it because you probably don't have the prerequisites, but I can't resist anyway".
(But the OP sort of asked for this, didn't he?)
 
@tb =) I feel you're overthinking a bit.
 
Er, I don't follow the question or the hint =)
What are these canonical basis sequences?
 
3:50 AM
e_n is the sequence that is zero except at the n-th place where it is 1.
 
Let me go back and check.
 
@Srivatsan You may want to have a look at the answer I gave in the question I marked as duplicate.
 
I like Akhil's answer -- matched my thought. [I haven't seen your answer yet.]
Vassili posts another question btw. =)
 
I've never seen a question by that guy. Why would anyone want to know such closed forms?
 
QED
4:06 AM
Again
I wish I could downvote comments
 
Is there a nice way of writing a vertical equivalence sign as long as \iff ?
 
vertical? Not sure I have seen one before.
Is there an automatic way to make any symbol to be typeset vertically? Sounds like a good question to tex.se
 
No. There exists \Updownarrow, but it is the vertical version of \Leftrightarrow
 
Bah, seeding a new beta SE site is exhausting work...
 
- which se site? Mathematica?
 
4:17 AM
@Srivatsan It's not clear to me why he couldn't adapt Didier's and Sasha's solutions in that other thread by him...
@Srivatsan Nope, the Computational Science site. (It's still in private beta.)
 
@JM You are talking about Norlyda, not Vassili. =)
 
Yes. Didier and Sasha gave better answers than me in that thread.
Oh, right. These people are confusing...
I understand Vassili though; it's the problem of "searching math" all over again.
 
Good morning, JM.
 
Oh, right. :D It's noon actually, but: good day, you guys!
 
Good morning...
 
4:24 AM
You guys produced a long transcript from when I left... :D
 
How is the fact that every continuous function admits an antiderivative deep?
 
-- perhaps he meant deeper than IVT? And we should go through the Riemann integration machinery, no?
How come he has a set of notes ready for all his answers? =)
 
4:39 AM
Well, you know he's teaching calculus, so no surprise here...
Depth is probably a function of your déformation professionnelle
@Srivatsan People seem to like them. I'm surprised that he didn't mention the base 13 function.
 
I like them. Anyway.
 
@Srivatsan I have no opinion. I just looked at the commutative algebra notes cursorily and the references were completely off, so I gave up pretty quickly.
 
Ok, I didn't read that one.
 
Well, it was a year ago, maybe it's less of a work-in-progress now.
 
Okay, now I'm up to speed. :D
It sucks MathJax can't support F\left(\varphi\middle|\frac{p}{q}\right)...
 
4:56 AM
@JM First time I've seen \middle. Is this in a standard package?
 
@tb If it counts for anything, you were excruciatingly polite IMO. :)
 
I guess by standard I mean "vanilla LaTeX or one of the AMS packages".
 
@Dylan: I forgot which, lemme dig through docs...
 
@JM It seems to be part of this package.
 
@tb That's quite some effort for the Holder-Minkowski answer. =) I can't read it just yet (have to leave :-( ), I will read and upvote tomorrow.
 
5:01 AM
Ah, yes, you found it Dylan. :)
 
@Srivatsan Well, a good question deserves at least an attempt at a good answer :)
But do you guys also have so many captcha's recently? it's terribly annoying about every third answer I want to post I have to go through that. Did they change the algorithm?
 
No, not really
 
That's weird. I've never gotten a captcha from this site I don't think.
 
See you guys, it's midnight here. =/
 
@tb The only time I've been hitting Captchas lately is when I take more than 10 minutes to write an answer. I don't know why.
See you @Sri.
 
5:03 AM
G'night.
 
@JM I think there was some 30 mins threshold (at least on MO). I often start writing an answer and let it rest for a while, continue a little bit, and so on. Maybe it's because of that. But I did that all the time, but it's only starting to backfire now.
@Srivatsan Good night, Srivatsan!
 
I would say part of the long writing time for me is due to waiting for MathJax to struggle with long align environments... :D
 
I couldn't work were it not for Jack's blessed bookmarklets
 
I guess I should be putting them in now... I keep forgetting to install them. :)
 
What're these?
 
5:09 AM
@DylanMoreland See this meta thread
 
Thanks.
 
5:23 AM
It's still hazy on why Robin never once tried to post a notice that he'd be on hiatus...
 
QED
If I type LaTeX like $\sqrt{\text{this}}$ then push the bookmarklet it shows up in chat
although you have to press it every time
if someone edits it so that it actives each time a new messages comes it could be useful for seminars
 
@JM He left before I joined the site. I've seen a few very nice answers of his, but I also read the whole return key incident/melodrama. I understand the annoyance very well. On the other hand, to produce such an uproar seems a bit exaggerated.
 
Yeah, somehow I now feel he merely joined the election out of spite...
@QED Depends. If pressing the button causes everything to re-render, it'd be nasty. Now if there was a way to localize the effect to a single line, then we're in business.
 
QED
someone with more patience reading the MathJax documentation could definitely do it
I don't know how though
 
I know; I was presenting my thoughts on why the overlords haven't tangled with this.
 
That reminds me; I really need to figure out how to write a meta post like that for the new scicomp.SE .
It does seem that searching skills are underrated, though.
 
Well, it was easy enough for me, even though there are many Schweizerischer Verein für M...
 
Bah, if I had rep there I'd vote to reopen. It looks quite nontrivial.
I needed to think about SVM, but I do know what a radial basis function is.
t.b., did you happen to catch the deleted comments before Scott nuked them?
 
I can't judge the content of the question, but I'm getting increasingly disgruntled by the purist and narrow-minded attitude of some of the most vocal MO members. I fear that if they continue this way they will never reach a reasonable coverage of all parts of mathematics
 
Numerics is already given short shrift there as it is, to give an example... :(
 
5:51 AM
There are some e-thugs at MO, definitely.
 
@JM The only one I saw was something à la "SVM, WTF, expln ur ABBRVS plz."
 
I'll confess to being a snob, but I like to think I ain't that snobbish...
 
One of the votes to close seems to come from someone who works in machine learning. So maybe he knows what he's talking about.
 
@tb That was sorta kinda mean.
@DylanMoreland But even MO is supposed to allow for "simple" graduate-level questions, no?
 
Sure. I can't gauge what level this is at all, though.
 
5:54 AM
I remember something annoying once. There was this guy who was asking about Moore-Penrose pseudoinverses in MO many months ago. There was a quick comment on a vote to close dismissing the problem as trivial.
I was so annoyed I dumped a bunch of papers written on the stuff in the comments, to show that the problem wasn't as trivial as the guy thought.
 
The OPs claim that number theorists would know what he was talking about seems off.
But that shouldn't matter.
 
That was the OP's blemish, I agree.
 
6:21 AM
When I saw the word prodigal I thought that it is derived from prodigy.
Again, I learned something new today.
 
:D So you haven't heard the story of the prodigal son?
 
Well not in English.
This was the first time I've seen it used in English.
An accidentally, it was used in House episode I've seen yesterday.
Both time, from the context, this meaning would make sense.
 
On the other hand, even some English-speakers are confused about using "prodigal".
 
I have tagging related question.
 
@MartinSleziak What season are they now?
 
6:24 AM
@JM 8th
Tag is down to 4 entries.
 
Congratulations. :)
 
Which will go to .
 
(Once no question has that tag, it takes the system about two days to nuke the tag.)
 
(I am not sure about things about elliptic curves, but if I have to choose from the two tags that replaced lattices, then it will be this one.)
This is exactly what I wanted to be asked.
So I have no possibility for placing some warning text into so that it should not be used - it will be deleted anyway.
 
Unless a new question uses it within the two days between removal from questions and deletion by the system.
 
6:27 AM
The only thing I can do is keep my eyes open and when new questions with this tag appear, retag them correctly (and perhaps give there link to discussion on meta, so that OP knows the reason.)
Ok, I just wanted to know this.
 
Sounds like a good plan. :)
 
Yes. I was asking because I wanted to know if there's some other possibility.
E.g. when we eradicate , then the text warning not to use it will disappear, too.
 
We could ask Jeff to blacklist ...
(or some other SE employee)
 
BTW I think my today's retags should push Dylan Moreland to get bronze algebra badge: math.stackexchange.com/tags/abstract-algebra/topusers
I think I saw his answers there.
 
(Not anytime soon though; that's still a lot of questions there. :D)
 
6:30 AM
Well, yes, it will be a long time before .
I've just mentioned it since it is a similar situation as the current situation of lattices tag.
 
@MartinSleziak If all goes well, he should get one within the next UTC day. :)
 
Speaking of tagging, it seems the suggestion to rename gained some support: meta.math.stackexchange.com/a/3268/8297
 
I saw; that's great! :) I'm still waiting for my question in the comments to be answered, though.
 
Honestly, I was surprised by that. (I certainly would not upvote that suggestion - I've just posted the suggestion from the comments so that it can be up and downvoted, but this was not the result I expected.)
@JM You mean the multivariable stuff? Like partial derivatives?
 
Yep.
So Arturo's not cool about it. I haven't seen other feedback though. Especially from mods.
 
6:37 AM
I thought I've seen something about them in the currently tagged questions.
@JM Well Arturo did not say anything about including partial derivatives in his comment. I guess his comment was related to having the tag at all.
My opinion would be to include partial derivatives.
 
And Jacobians? :)
 
At least it seems to be more acceptable than having separate tags for partial derivatives, judging from the reaction to this tag.
 
I must agree.
 
If I would have to tag a question using Jacobians, I would probably go with .
BTW according to Asaf's comments here, there was about 600 questions tagged in June.
So we will slowly get back to the same situation.
 
Sisyphus? :)
 
6:49 AM
ok, anyway thanks for answering my question about removal of tags without questions
I'll do the last of the lattices today or tommorow.
I've noticed that went from cca 40 to cca 20 - Srivatsan work I guess.
 
7:33 AM
One last vote needed here for closing: math.stackexchange.com/questions/87896/…
 
@MartinSleziak done
 
Thanks!
Good evening.
Evening I guess - you're in the USA right?
 
@MartinSleziak Yes, it is 11:42 where I am :-)
 
8:42 AM here
 
Hello.
@robjohn 11:42 PM?
 
7:44 AM
I just checked my clocks and I have one for Bratislava, Slovakia with your name one it :-)
 
Juror+executioner needed here.
 
@Daniil Yes, I should have said 23:42
 
Cool
it's actually 11:42 AM in here :O
 
Ah, antipodes. :)
 
@JM ready for the execution
@Daniil Cool. Do you mind telling where that is?
roughly...
 
7:47 AM
@robjohn You have clocks with MSE usernames on them?
 
@robjohn Moscow.
Directly under you, I guess.
 
@MartinSleziak Well, I have clocks for all the MSE chatters timezones (that I know about) and a list of who goes with what clock under them
@Daniil Cool, a friend of mine was raised in Moscow. We walk dogs together in the park twice a day.
 
@robjohn Do you use some application/web service for this?
 
@MartinSleziak Just Firefox... is that what you mean?
 
@robjohn :D cool
 
7:50 AM
@robjohn There's some plugin/addon for this?
 
@Daniil I never realized that Moscow was 12 hours earlier...
@MartinSleziak Not that I know of. Does it not work for you?
 
@robjohn I am not sure about that earlier part. It's the 3rd of December in here.
 
@Daniil Lokomotiv is going to the Play-off phase of Europa league. (I happen to know since one player from Slovakia is in that team. But maybe you're not football fan...)
@robjohn I did not know that is something like this in FF.
 
@MartinSleziak Not really a fan, sorry.
 
@Daniil It is still the 2nd here for 6 more minutes
 
7:54 AM
@JM closed
 
@Daniil I now have a clock for Moscow on my desktop. :-)
 
Thanks, rob and Martin!
 
: D
 
After recent binomial coefficient incident, don't you have the feeling that sometimes we are too hasty in closing questions? (Of course, this was definitely not the case.)
 
@MartinSleziak which incident?
 
7:55 AM
Sometimes, I guess. But I think we still keep each other in check, no?
 
For example I've had funny feelings about closing this one: math.stackexchange.com/questions/87143/… since the answer has to be combined from the answer from the questions marked as duplicates.
Some people might not see that right away.
 
I see an interesting bug in that question...
 
@JM six-legged?
 
@robjohn I am not sure you're asking seriously (it was discussed on chat, too - hard to miss.) But I meant this one: math.stackexchange.com/questions/86093/…
 
Nono, see the red things in that question? :)
@MartinSleziak I think he was out during that day.
 
7:59 AM
That question was closed as non-constructive, then reopened and closed again as exact duplicate.
If you have look at the comments, there was quite a fuzz about it.
 
I myself wasn't around during the mess, but I learned of it from the transcript.
 

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