The Bridge

fbueckert

3:11 PM

Congratulations, you've killed chat!

Mechko

Chat is different to the last time I was here

fbueckert

@Mechko The Arqade switchover changed the color scheme a bit.

Mechko

Yes I see that but more than that, there are mainly people I don't recognize. :-p

fbueckert

@Mechko Then I suspect it's been quite some time since you've been here. :P

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert I honestly wasn't trying to. :(

fbueckert

3:15 PM

@RilgonArcsinh Eh. It happens. You know you're a regular once you've killed chat at least once.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert Haha. I haven't even been here a week, so I politely disagree. :P

(here being chat)

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh Nope. You've come to the dark side now. You're officially a regular.

@pixel Ok, now's a good time to stop.

Mechko

I think StrixVaria was a newbie when I was last here.

fbueckert

@Mechko That was...quite some time ago. You expect everything to stay the same on the Internet? :P

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert Isn't that what the Wayback Machine is for? :P

fbueckert

3:18 PM

@RilgonArcsinh Exactly. You want oldies, go there.

Mechko

Lol that's true. I'm just reminiscing. I haven't had a chance to play a video game in close to two years

fbueckert

@Mechko That usually means a major life change happened.

Mechko

I started grad school :-p

The site looks good. It seems to be taking off rather well.

pixel

@fbueckert oh but please, I only have 9 more to do

and my database restore is still at 0%, so its not like I have anything else to do...

plsplsplsplspls etc

QAdley

@Mechko There has been much free stuff given away

@pixel Watch the Olympics?

fbueckert

3:23 PM

@pixel Give it some time, girl. It'll still be there when it gets back.

Lazers

0

Q: What are new users supposed to do when their question has already been asked but not answered?

A user asked a duplicate question today because he had no comment privileges to annotate his issues into the original. Normally such a user would be directed to chat, except brand new users cannot talk in chat. What are new users supposed to do in such a situation? It seems ridiculous to force ...

discussion

Mechko

I received two such emails in the past few years, though I never actually received any freestuff :(

pixel

@QAdley uh, I'd rather die, straight up - no exaggerations

@fbueckert but I might not be... (hometime in 8 minutes)

fbueckert

And if you have nothing else to do, I'd recommend going to troll the bnet forums.

QAdley

@pixel Fair enough. I didn't think I'd enjoy it, but I'm completely hooked. Watching 24/7...

pixel

3:24 PM

I can't, I'm banned from the EU battle net forums

fbueckert

@pixel ...dare I ask why?

pixel

because after I came here, I didn't need to continue behaving and started getting reported frequently enough that I have been banned for a month

ending in a few weeks

Nothing major, just being my annoyingly pedantic self, forcing arguments to start looping, belittling people by using multi-syllable words where diminutive ones would have sufficed, etc

fbueckert

Ok, you've done your trolling, then. Well done.

pixel

Where do you think I was for that week I wasn't here?

At least I behave here...

fbueckert

@pixel Heh. Well, if you still need something to do, go look at stupid Area 51 proposals.

Such as:

3

Flying Spaghetti Monster

Proposed Q&A site for pastafarians and other fellow Flying Spaghetti Monster believers

Currently in definition.

pixel

3:28 PM

I looked at the personal hygiene one, nobody took offence to my silly questions and upvoted them instead :(

Mechko

@pixel you should start a troll twitter account which takes advantage of current events to garner followers of a certain political persuasion and then mocks them

Wipqozn

@fbueckert There are so many stupid Area 51 proposals. It makes me angry.

pixel

I despise twitter

It's full of idiots (generally speaking)

I prefer bookface over twitter

Wipqozn

►

> Where do you think you are? Do you think you're on springer?

Mechko

Twitter is full of idiots, but making fun of idiots is fun

Rilgon Arcsinh

3:31 PM

@pixel Any online "community" of sufficient size is "full of idiots".

fbueckert

@Wipqozn People go, "Hey, this is a great site! I really love <X>. I should propose a site specifically for this!"

Rilgon Arcsinh

Hell, the same can even be said of SE - look at A51.

pixel

Area 51 is full of decent people who've given up with people trying to create cake.stackexchange.com and have resorted to trolling

Rilgon Arcsinh

I am more directly referring to the people trying to make cake.SE

pixel

We're talking intelligent people, like programmers, and designers, and people who talk about whether it should be <ok> <cancel> or <cancel> <ok> (ui designers)

fbueckert

3:32 PM

@pixel restored to trolling?

pixel

sigh

fbueckert

Yes. I am now trolling your obvious wrong use. :P

pixel

@fbueckert you know I have like 1.5 seconds between me and the window I'm typing into

Wipqozn

DayZ goes stand-alone

Mechko

Gale Crater

@RealGaleCrater, Aeolis Quadrangle, Mars

Hi, I'm the Gale Crater on Mars, I'm big (96 mi in diameter, don't hate) and 3.5 billion years old.

168 tweets, 753 followers, following 165 users

fbueckert

3:34 PM

@Wipqozn Interesting

Is Bohemia the developer of Arma?

Fluttershy

@Wipqozn I knew they were talking about it. But it's good to see that it's actually happening.

@fbueckert Yep.

fbueckert

@Fluttershy Good. Seeing as how DayZ was a primary sales market of Arma, it makes sense for them to spin it out into a separate game.

StrixVaria

Is DayZ actually fun? It sounds kind of....slow. And very easily griefable.

fbueckert

I love how the vast majority of new proposals on Area 51 are done by new users; they take no time to learn how it works, it's just, "Propose new idea! This is the most awesomest thing ever!"

Rilgon Arcsinh

@StrixVaria Going to take a wild leap and assume the griefability is the major draw for a lot of people.

(See also: ~~Spreadsheets and Assholes~~ EVE Online)

fbueckert

3:39 PM

@StrixVaria As I understand it, hacking is all the rage now.

pixel

EVE is not a game, not sure why people keep mistaking it as a game

Rilgon Arcsinh

Did I state that it was one?

pixel

some people do!

fbueckert

They're paying to play it, so some would argue it is a game.

tiddy

A lot of people do

pixel

3:40 PM

I pay for my electricity, I don't call that a game though

Fluttershy

@StrixVaria It is extremely fun. The main problem is the lack of humanity in other players. "Oh hey... Someone just spawned on that beach without any weapons or anything? Better kill him!"

tiddy

What would you call it

pixel

Grinding for no purpose

Rilgon Arcsinh

@pixel Negotiating a lower rate was a better game/dialogue tree than quite a few Bioware offerings

pixel

wow I don't believe you just indirectly said something negative about Mass Effect

Rilgon Arcsinh

3:42 PM

Oh I could say it more directly if desired

Fluttershy

@KatieK Shirt made it! =D Thank you!

pixel

do it, I dare you

Rilgon Arcsinh

The first 5 hours of ME1 were boring dredge that did zero to hook me into playing the rest of it or the rest of the series, and I regret every damn cent I spent on it - and it was on a mega Steam sale.

pixel

oh damn you

fbueckert

@pixel You. Go home.

This sounds like it's going to get heated, so go calm down and walk it off.

Rilgon Arcsinh

3:43 PM

That said, people are more than welcome to like it themselves because people have different tastes and that's okay.

pixel

I would, my brain is just solidifying again after that major malfunction

and I am calm!

there is always calm before the storm

Rilgon Arcsinh

spins cyclonically

pixel

@RilgonArcsinh did you actually just say that EVE is (in your opinion) better than the Mass Effect series?

fbueckert

@pixel Then stay calm, alright? It's not worth getting into a fighting match about a game for crying out loud.

pixel

@fbueckert wow you completely misunderstand :(

Rilgon Arcsinh

3:46 PM

I don't think I made any sort of quantifier in that vein, I think they're both crap for entirely different reasons. :P

fbueckert

1 min ago, by pixel

there is always calm before the storm

You're implying you won't stay calm.

pixel

@fbueckert that is a fact in nature, not sure what more you want - I didn't relate it to anything, you did that!

@RilgonArcsinh did you know that there is a copy of snake built into the youtube player?

Rilgon Arcsinh

At one point, though I wasn't aware it was still present.

pixel

it is, but only if the video doesn't have annotations

StrixVaria

Controversy time:

0

A: What should we do about dupes that don't answer the question?

We are here to make the Internet a better place, specifically in regards to gaming. The way we specifically try to do that is by answering questions related to gaming. How is it helping a gamer get his answer to a gaming question by disallowing his valid question because it has already been aske...

pixel

3:49 PM

@StrixVaria I agree with you

its not a duplicate if the question it is accused of duplicating doesn't answer / isn't answered

Rilgon Arcsinh

Ditto.

StrixVaria

I went a little overboard with the bold, but whatever.

It's like a roller coaster to read now!

desaivv

Hello Bridge

pixel

A lot of people overdo the bold

My favourite overused bold is in that set of old questions from 2010

Where it's <wall of text> <question in bold>

desaivv

I made a mistake with a comment of mine.

pixel

3:51 PM

congratulations

desaivv

It caused a question to be retagged

pixel

oh

link the question

desaivv

5

Q: How do I feed on people as a vampire or vampire lord?

For a quest, I have to seduce Dexion Evicus then to feed on him. I succeeded in the first task, but the second is becoming annoying: I've reduced his life-total many times to zero, but I don't get the option to feed on him. So, while I'm in the Vampire Lord form, how I can I feed on him? I accid...

skyrim

Dawnguard tweaks seduction

and I am playing against the faction

pixel

@desaivv you didn't do that - the edit that removed the tag was done by Ender

QAdley

@pixel I rarely use bold, but I often use # in answers

desaivv

3:52 PM

so did not bother to do the research

QAdley

#NO

or #YES

as appropriate

desaivv

i did not do that, but my comment led to the retag i believe

just letting you guys know i was wrong

it was originally tagged dawnguard

and the non-accepted answer is right

my apologies

pixel

@desaivv I don't think you are wrong, the correct way to deal with the issue you're highlighting is to answer the question is 'bla bla bla in general bla bla feeding bla, in Dawnguard it changes like <x> and <y> because of <z>'

desaivv

i was thinking of rolling back the original question, but then thought let me ask the people on the bridge

leave it up to u r experience and judgement

pixel

alternatively, you could add a comment onto "BigStuu"'s answer along the lines of "Once the Dawnguard plug-in is installed, Vampire Seduction will allow you to feed on NPCs no matter if they're asleep or not."

desaivv

3:56 PM

but he did not research it

the other person did

tiddy

The original question title and the current question specifically mention the Vampire Lord

How is it not Dawnguard

desaivv

it is dawnguard

which is why i am sorry and apologize

kotekzot edited the tags

pixel

@tiddy it says "vampire or vampire lord"

desaivv

and the title

pixel

we could edit it back to a dawnguard question, but then we're missing a standard skyrim question for the same thing

or we could edit it to a generic question for skyrim + expansions

tiddy

3:57 PM

@pixel in the edit, which was made in reference to his comment

desaivv

her comment

sorry

tiddy

np, my bad

pixel

It looks like the original asker was asking a question specifically about dawnguard though

@tiddy yes you are bad

desaivv

yes it was about dawnguard only

pixel

most importantly though, that question ends "Thanks!"

desaivv

3:58 PM

the OP had no idea they could become a vampire in the base game

tiddy

@pixel Lets keep it civil

pixel

@tiddy I am being civil :(

tiddy

@pixel You're being high

desaivv

boys back to the problem

pixel

@tiddy I'm completely sober

yes @tiddy, back to the problem, apparently I'm allowed to keep on being pedantic :P

desaivv

4:00 PM

ok guys atleast you know about my mistake

leave it up to you

i got to run

@desaivv have fun

Thanks

bye

@StrixVaria That leads to a very slippery slope if we allow that; it's the same question with a slight variation. If the original hasn't been answered, how will a duplicate get answered?

tiddy

Newer, fresh eyes

pixel

4:02 PM

@fbueckert Yes, its potentially a slippery slope. A 1 hour old question has more chance of being answered than a 1 year old question though.

fbueckert

@tiddy Which can still be garnered by bountying the original.

Front page is front page, regardless of how it gets there.

pixel

@fbueckert old questions have a stigma of 'meh doesn't matter' though IMO, if a question has had no activity in the last year the person who asked it is unlikely to ever see the answer

tiddy

This issue is dealing with dupes that have been answered though

StrixVaria

@fbueckert The original was answered, though. The "duplicate" was not.

Which is why it's not really a duplicate.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria If a question is basically, "This linked question is what I'm asking, or a very slight variation thereof", we're opening the door to everyone going, "But my question is slightly different! You can't close it!"

StrixVaria

4:05 PM

Blog - Stack Exchange: Dr. Strangedupe: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love Duplication

Jeff Atwood on November 15, 2010

As Stack Overflow grows — or any other Q&A site in the Stack Exchange network, really — there’s a natural pressure to discover and link duplicate questions. The more questions you have, the higher the possibility a given new question isn’t in fact a new question, but a duplicate of an older existing question. Because of this, we’ve continually enhanced the tools for finding, linking, and merging duplicate questions:

Handling Duplicate Questions Linking Duplicate Questions Improved Question Merging …

fbueckert

And encouraging pedantry when arguing that your question shouldn't be closed as a dupe.

@StrixVaria Everyone links this article. Dupes are not inherently bad, I agree. But we don't NEED thirty thousand questions about every little variation of something that might happen.

StrixVaria

@fbueckert I'm not saying we should have thirty thousand. But if a question covers an obvious oversight in a related question and answer, why not let it exist?

It's new information.

pixel

also, "slightly different" is irrelevant, exact duplicates where the linked duplicate isn't answered is the scenario imo

Sterno

I've been active here about 8 months, and I have yet to see anyone ever say "Why did you close MY question if THIS OTHER question is open?"

pixel

anyway I'm going home now

Sterno

4:08 PM

I take that back. I think I remember it one time with some Starcraft question

fbueckert

@StrixVaria New information that's trivial. It's something than can be easily incorporated into the existing answer on the original question.

Sterno

Either way, it doesn't happen much. I'd rather see us vote to open/close based on the question's merits, not worrying about "opening the door" for someone to point at it with a crappier version of a similar question

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert Brand new users can't bounty the original question, which is the core point, I think.

StrixVaria

@RilgonArcsinh Not only that, but they shouldn't have to.

Rilgon Arcsinh

The surgical dupe hunting jades new users, especially if the "dupe" doesn't address the user's variation thereof or lacks an answer.

StrixVaria

4:10 PM

Closing their question as a dupe of a question that doesn't answer their question is hostile.

fbueckert

If the scenario is to leave dupes open until one of them gets an answer, that will game the system hard for contests.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@StrixVaria Yes, I agree, but I'm arguing strictly against the "well then just bounty it" thesis.

StrixVaria

We should make every effort we can to answer questions.

If the question is already answered, close it as a dupe.

If it hasn't already been answered, then we should find a way to get it answered.

The easiest way to do that is to leave it open.

If there's an alternative, I'm all ears.

Rilgon Arcsinh

If steps towards user-friendliness add "game-ability" to contests, then modify the contests, don't sneer at legitimate newbies.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria I'd recommend closing the dupe, and get one of us established users to drop a bounty on the original.

Wipqozn

4:12 PM

►

fbueckert

Shoves it up the front page, and adds incentive to find an answer.

StrixVaria

@fbueckert No offense, but that's stupid. No one should have to spend rep to get simple questions answered.

Sterno

Is there some nuance I'm missing here? I don't think it makes sense to only close as a dupe if the one it's a dupe of has an answer, and leaving it open if it doesn't.

Wipqozn

I think @gnomeslice will like that

fbueckert

@StrixVaria Why should we leave it open?

The question's been asked before.

StrixVaria

4:13 PM

@fbueckert Because it's not answered on our site.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@Sterno I think the issue here is when question X (the original) has an answer that does not properly address question Y (the "dupe"), which is very similar (but not identical) to question X.

StrixVaria

We should make every effort to get the question answered.

We shouldn't have to spend anything to do that.

We should leave it open so it gets an answer.

Sterno

ah

fbueckert

@StrixVaria So, in the event that a question hasn't been answered, it's alright for duplicates to exist? I don't agree.

Sterno

similar but not identical get weird, yeah

fbueckert

4:13 PM

That's broken windows.

StrixVaria

@fbueckert No, actually. It gets more people more information when they come to the site.

Sterno

And I agree, saying "post a bounty" is usually a crap response. People are stingy with rep. Particularly when you're below 3k or so

StrixVaria

Duplicates are not broken windows.

Questions closed as dupes that don't ever get answered on our site are.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@Sterno To wit: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/78868/… is not answered by the accepted answer in the cited "dupe", gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/14604/…

StrixVaria

If anything, duplicates are more points of entry that get get people into our site to get information.

fbueckert

4:14 PM

@StrixVaria For SEO, yes.

StrixVaria

We shouldn't have a billionty of them, but we shouldn't just follow rules even though they actively harm the user experience.

Closing a question as a dupe without providing an answer to the question, just because "dupes are bad", is hostile.

Rilgon Arcsinh

Nothing was brought up in the cited "dupe" (which was from Jan 2011) until the kerfluffle on Meta, at which point Raven added a comment to the original answer.

StrixVaria

That's the kind of thing that drives people away from the site.

Sterno

@RilgonArcsinh The one it's a dupe of is super-broad.

StrixVaria

It goes against everything we should stand for as a site.

fbueckert

4:15 PM

@StrixVaria Closing dupes does not automatically mean dupes are bad.

It means, "This has been asked before".

Rilgon Arcsinh

@Sterno That's the other issue. I don't think a narrower-scope example of a super-broad question (the original) is a duplicate.

StrixVaria

@RilgonArcsinh Agree.

Rilgon Arcsinh

"How does X work?" and "Does X have this particular nuance?" are not the same question, neither in word nor "heart".

("heart" probably isn't the right word, but you get what I mean)

Sterno

We have to look at the reality of how the site works. A super broad question, asked and answered, isn't likely to get any views if someone wants to know some minor detail

I'm with @StrixVaria. Closing a dupe simply won't work to get the person their answer. And the scale of the questions is different enough that we're not really hurting anyone by having both open.

fbueckert

@Sterno What about in a scenario where the question's been asked, but there's no answer?

We're talking about two different scenarios.

Sterno

4:18 PM

In my opinion, whether or not there is an answer is irrelevant.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert Does a merge bubble the old question back to front page? Because I think that would be more ideal than closure.

Sterno

I mean, it requires judgment. If you strongly believe that any halfway-decent answer to the broad question will necessarily encompass the smaller question, close as a dupe

But if it's some corner-case unlikely to be addressed, that's kind of what separate questions are there for

Rilgon Arcsinh

Such as "how does the rune combiner work" vs "does the combiner respect the new 'only 9 runes max' rule that didn't exist when the former was asked?"

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh A merge does not, no.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert That's unfortunate. I'd almost feel better if a policy was codified that, if the cited dupe was of a certain age or older, it was edited to reflect that a duplicate was asked to bring more attention to the original, then.

Basically saying something like "we understand your question is important, but it's already been asked once with no success - let's see if we can get that original answered for both of you".

tiddy

4:21 PM

That would require logic

and common sense

StrixVaria

@Sterno @fbueckert @anyone else interested in this discussion Relevant meta

Mad Scientist

@RilgonArcsinh Most duplicates already have good enough answers, the situation where the duplicate doesn't answer the newer question is relatively rare in my experience. Bumping the question would not always be a good idea

Rilgon Arcsinh

@MadScientist Well yes, I agree. It would have to be something that would require a judgment call, but that's sort of why we have the reputation system in general and basically a level of trust of higher-rep people (like those that can VtC, edit without vetting, etc).

StrixVaria

To make myself clear, we shouldn't automatically not close these questions. I agree with @RilgonArcsinh. We also just shouldn't automatically close them either.

fbueckert

@StrixVaria I've put in my two cents on that; I'm of the opinion that corner cases that can be encompassed in the complete answer, should be. We don't need nitpicky tiny variants.

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:23 PM

If a member is trusted enough by the community (through their rep earnings) to VtC, I also think they should be trusted enough to say "yes, the original that is the cited dupe didn't get enough attention, and should be bumped accordingly".

(That said, I also acknowledge the possibility that a question may be unanswerable, and wouldn't mind a once or twice limit on such a practice.)

Lazers

0

Q: Minecraft LAN Problem

Today i was playing on my singleplayer world in minecraft when i turned on the LAN setting. I changed myself to creative mode to fly back to my house, but when i turned myself back to survival, i couldnt place anything down or break any blocks! I have tried redownloading minecraft but that didn't...

minecraft lan

Fluttershy

What question/answer started this debate?

pixel

+1 to what Fluttershy said

Rilgon Arcsinh

15 mins ago, by Rilgon Arcsinh

@Sterno To wit: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/78868/when-combining-runes-can-you-get-runes-that-you-already-have-9-of is not answered by the accepted answer in the cited "dupe", http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/14604/how-does-rune-combiner-work

And the accompanying meta discussion: meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5183/…

Fluttershy

@RilgonArcsinh It's answered in the comment.

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:30 PM

The comment was added after the meta question.

Fluttershy

As recently brought up on a linked question, the Rune Combiner does not care if you already have 9 runes of a particular type - it will give you a 10th just as soon as it will give you a rune you have only 3 of. — Raven Dreamer Jul 29 at 23:16

@RilgonArcsinh Right. Because it was brought up on meta and the issue was resolved. @FAE's answer on that meta thread is a good standard to go off of.

Rilgon Arcsinh

Except the VtC and resulting comment gave off the exact hostile appearance that @StrixVaria mentioned - hence the questioner's original comment and reply to FAE.

pixel

I think in this particular example, the comment in question should have been added to the answer rather than the comment to make it more obvious, but the question closed as a dupe is clearly a dupe

Rilgon Arcsinh

(I would conjecture about whether or not it drove the person in question off of Arqade, but they were seen 34 minutes ago, so that's out, I guess.)

tiddy

It's like you guys are trying to give new users hell

pixel

4:34 PM

In this particular instance, I would suggest the the issue is that there were votes to close without an explanation in comments. If there had been a comment along the lines of "this is dupe of <> see the comments, I am vtc this as dupe" then it is obvious that the question is a duplicate, the new guy doesn't need to read a bunch of comments to find the answer because you've told him its there, and you didn't go closing their question without reasoning

Mad Scientist

I'm not really a fan of closing very specific questions as duplicates of broad overview questions. I've no idea about the current example, but there was an earlier one where the duplicate answered the question, but it was one sentence inside a 5 paragraph answer. Sometimes it makes sense to generalize the questions, the point where it is harmful is IMHO when you have to read through irrelevant stuff to get to your actual answer.

pixel

BUT I am not having the VTC conversation again

bbl

Rilgon Arcsinh

@MadScientist That's the exact point of this debate, IMHO - I imagine that Hackworth knows, on a core level, how the combiner works. He just wanted to know if it obeyed the newly-implemented "max of 9/3" rule on runes.

And the cited "original" question's answers did not touch on that, primarily because the aforementioned limit didn't exist then.

FAE

@RilgonArcsinh I really did my best in order to accommodate the user and explain in a civil manner why the closure was occurring. Can you please explain what you felt came off as "hostile"?

Sterno

Now I've meta'd. Yay

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:39 PM

@FAE Primarily a VtC with no reasoning before the 5 needed votes, with a secondary of the moderately dismissive "well if you don't like the answer, ask for an update or bounty it" line.

Sterno

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what is decided in meta. 3k+ close/reopen votes, ahoy!

Rilgon Arcsinh

That said, this is just my opinion. /shrug

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh For a user with 1K+, it's eminently possible to ask for an update.

pixel

@FAE your initial comment is very idealistic, and while I agree with it I don't think it was relevant to the user wanting to know how something works that wasn't in the previous instance of the question

fbueckert

Actually, all these Minecraft LAN questions make a good example. We have, what? A half dozen of them at this point?

pixel

4:41 PM

@FAE I think the actual problem was not the action of any individual specifically, but the five people who voted to close it who didn't comment, leaving the user confused

fbueckert

Most of them can be answered by, "You don't understand what LAN means". But we're closing them as duplicates of one of them.

pixel

@fbueckert with minecraft I am going to be judged for making such a general statement, but it could be down to people closing based on the title without actually reading what the point of the question was

StrixVaria

@FAE Explaining why the closure is occurring still doesn't get them their answer. That's all they came here for. Not a lesson in policy.

I want to try to get people to start erring on the side of helping people.

6

Rilgon Arcsinh

I think technical problem-based questions (the LAN issues) are not the same thing as "can you answer this one specific nuance of $THING that the general question about $THING did not address?"

StrixVaria

Rather than on the side of following rules super strictly.

Ender

4:42 PM

@StrixVaria great answer but you didn't upvote my question. Sad Face.

pixel

@StrixVaria starred

fbueckert

@pixel The vast majority can be answered as, "You REALLY don't understand what LAN means."

pixel

@fbueckert if they're being closed as a duplicate of a question that is actually about LAN stuff with MC though, that's not just THEM misunderstanding what a LAN is

fbueckert

@pixel No, they're being closed as duplicates of the question about Minecraft LAN. Most of it consists of their assumption that LAN is just a smaller internet, and requires no work on their part.

pixel

smaller internet \o/

Ender

4:45 PM

lmfao. on teh subject of many Minecraft LAN questios....

0

Q: Minecraft LAN Problem

Today i was playing on my singleplayer world in minecraft when i turned on the LAN setting. I changed myself to creative mode to fly back to my house, but when i turned myself back to survival, i couldnt place anything down or break any blocks! I have tried redownloading minecraft but that didn't...

minecraft lan

pixel

I have a small internet

it is only 2mbps

Ender

here we go again....

watch, pretty soon minecraft lan questions will be off-topic. I called it here and now!

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh As an example, though, it works, because there's no real answer on the linked question.

pixel

.oO( With any luck all minecraft questions will become off topic )

Rilgon Arcsinh

@Ender brb, making a minecraftlanissues A51 proposal

Ender

4:47 PM

LMFAO

pixel

@RilgonArcsinh make it minecraft a51 proposal

FAE

@StrixVaria I take a little bit of offense to your implication that I wasn't trying to help the user. :/ The actions I took were based on helping to enforce our current interpretation of duplicate policy. While of course we need to help people, I'm still of the opinion that "teach a man to fish" is applicable here, as well as trying to engage.

fbueckert

@Ender Oh, no, not off topic. We just have to have an answer that should give a small crash course in what a LAN actually is. That might help them more than going, "That's not a LAN."

pixel

@FAE I don't think for a minute that @StrixVaria was implying you were intentionally trying to be unhelpful, it was just perceived like that by the user

Ender

@Fbueckert yea sure, something we SHOULD do, that is harder than closing? cause that happens here often...

I've brought up consecutive meta questions in the past several weeks, all addressing issues where questions were closed for reasons I felt were invalid.

CONSECUTIVE

this is just getting silly.

fbueckert

4:49 PM

@Ender For the most part, I see the vast majority of duplicates from new users as, "I didn't search and don't care, I'm asking anyways." THOSE should be closed.

Ender

@Fbueckert agreed.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert I don't think anyone is contesting this.

fbueckert

For those that are asking a minor variant of an existing question, though, that's what the real debate is.

I'm of the opinion that a complete answer of the original question including the variant is the way to go.

That way, we have a single answer.

Granted, that takes asking the question, and getting it closed to really address it.

pixel

@fbueckert if you do that though, you end up with two questions with near identical answers

David B

@fbueckert I'm of the opposite opinion, this isn't wikipedia where we have a definitive article about each topic. Ideally, you just get a short answer to a short question.

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:52 PM

So we expect users to badger the authors of year+ old questions? What if the original author has quit?

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh That was community editing is for!

pixel

would it not be better to allow the new instance of the question asking about <specifics> get answered, and then retrospectively add that to the originating question you would have previously closed as a dupe before marking the new question as a dupe after some period like a week?

fbueckert

@DavidB I don't like short answers. In that case, yes or no, without explanation, is a good answer. And I don't think it is.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@fbueckert Yes, except there is little incentive, and this adds additional difficulty to the questioner.

Ender

None of this discussion addresses my most recent meta topic, what do we do about new users that cant address their issues in old questions because lack of rep?

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:53 PM

The objective of all things, within reason, should be the dissemination of knowledge.

David B

@fbueckert that's too short, obviously there should be quality.

Rilgon Arcsinh

(or however you spell that)

Ender

3

Q: What are new users supposed to do when their question has already been asked but not answered?

A user asked a duplicate question today because he had no comment privileges to annotate his issues into the original. Normally such a user would be directed to chat, except brand new users cannot talk in chat. What are new users supposed to do in such a situation? It seems ridiculous to force ...

discussion

David B

a yes answer with no explanation is not helpful (and we have two on that q)

Ender

the entire dupe + new questions which the dupe doesn't cover issue really needs to be re-worked. my ideas may not be ideal, but the current policy isn't ideal either.

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:54 PM

@Ender The "right" (IMO) answer would be a 1-rep-but-still-registered chat room that's heavily moderated for newbies to get help with "dupes"

But that would require a lot of time and manpower.

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh Yeah. Far too much; the bots would overrun the users in no time.

murgatroid99

@RilgonArcsinh would you want to spend your time there?

Rilgon Arcsinh

(And, if chat.SE can't support such a thing - since I think chat requires 20 to talk in every room - an MSO request)

Ender

@RilgonArcsinh you just gave me an interesting idea... i'm gonna post it as an answer to my previously linked meta post.

Rilgon Arcsinh

@murgatroid99 I think if I were a mod or heavily invested in the site, I'd feel it was almost a civic duty to do so.

(That said, I'm not the former and not nearly the latter, as my rep indicates.)

FAE

4:57 PM

@RilgonArcsinh We tried doing something like this for Game Recommendation and it was not a success.

fbueckert

@Ender If you suggest a chat room for new users, I'm going to downvote it. There's a reason you need 20 rep.

David B

a question is not a dupe just because someone thinks it can be merged into another "article"

murgatroid99

@RilgonArcsinh but why would anyone want to do spend any significant amount of time moderating a room like that?

Sterno

It's hard to discuss meta topics generically when there is a specific example listed

I don't know crap-all about that LoL question pair, but I know how I feel about broad vs narrow in general

Rilgon Arcsinh

@murgatroid99 A desire for Arqade to grow and not present a facade of being antagonistic to new people?

pixel

4:57 PM

There is too much situational stuff in the rules for this place

Rilgon Arcsinh

This is not the first time such a topic has been brought up on meta.

James

@Sterno I think the general policy for dupes is already know. It is just this one specific question that has given us, as the community, pause to consider it is all.

Sterno

@pixel Actually, the truth is that there aren't that many rules in this place.

Rilgon Arcsinh

Hell, I felt it when I first started lurking around here; I quit for a decent period of time before @LessPop_MoreFizz told me to stick at it.

fbueckert

@RilgonArcsinh I agree that we need to work on our new user experience. But the answer to that is not to coddle them.

Rilgon Arcsinh

4:58 PM

@fbueckert I think there's a difference between coddling and spraying them with the bottle.

murgatroid99

@RilgonArcsinh I am pretty sure that I would not want to spend a lot of time in a chat room that has exactly zero interesting conversation/content.

pixel

@Sterno the accepted 'day to day' rules there are plenty of, they just don't appear to be documented in a formal list

fbueckert

@Sterno Although, I agree with your judgement calls bit.

David B

@James no, there are two sides to the general policy. the Q&A side and the wiki article side.

James

@RilgonArcsinh Ahh, so he is to blame!!! :D

Sterno

4:58 PM

At best, the "rules" here are basically agreements between people able to cast close votes about how to minimize chaos

Rilgon Arcsinh

@James Yes he is, for better or worse. :)

pixel

@RilgonArcsinh Me too

James

@RilgonArcsinh Ill shake a metaphorical fist in his direction later.. He keeps stealing all my The Secret World answers :D

Sterno

But you can decide whatever the heck you want in meta, I can cast the opposite vote, and I'm not getting banned for it. It's not a "rule"

David B

that's where the friction comes from... long term vs short term if you will

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