Lets make the masses conform to the outlier. The outlier can liberate them from their narratives. Long live narratives!

@Zaid Yes, I have. I think they're fake. Skeptical.

@Bart - Bringing this over here, because your question is looking more and more like a shopping question with what we're talking about in the comments

@Bart - You could also try this place ... it doesn't look cheap at £1,470.00 ... but looks complete. kauto.co.uk/shop/…

Good morning @kasey & @Myself

Hey good morning @Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 and everyone

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Well it was not my intention to discuss about that guy patton who sells complete kits, although they look quite nice. In plan to do that by myself to keep maximum customisability. I'm still hopling for people that know TB's that fit on a HS6 carb manifold.

We can talk a lot easier over here about it ... I do think your question borders on it being a shopping question, but I'm deign to close it because I'm truly interested in the outcome! :o)

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Yeah i was afraid it would be interpreted that way when i asked that question.. However, because it's about fitting something it's not really a shopping question i think. And a lot more people may come accross my question when i make it an actual question, than when i'd ask it here in the PitStop

@Bart - I agree with the "a lot more people may come across" portion there. A lot more.

I think I remember you talking about a Triumph before ... which model is it?

asking question about complete EFI conversion kits would indeed be a shopping question. But i don't need that, it's way too expensive and i aleready have all the parts needed for an EFI conversion, except for a TB because i planned to use the carbs for that

It's a TR7. Maybe i could even sell the old carbs to finance the conversion

Actually, making your own wouldn't be too hard with a bit of ingenuity, would it?

Are there two carbs on the TR7? And is it a 4-cyl? (I don't know that much about the TR7, other than it was The Shape of Things to Come.

If i had the proper tools, it could try it. Although i dont have too much experience with milling and such. But since second had TB's costs about $50, that is the logical option.

It's a twin carb 4cyl yeah, so i'd need two TB's. that'd be alot easier than to make a entirely new manifold that converges to one TB.

So, really, you just need two TBs which are about the right size (45mm throat), then some way to mount it onto your existing manifold. I think you're going to end up having to make your own mount even if we do find a TB for you.

What is the displacement of the engine?

Also, a picture of the mounting boss would probably be something which would help big time.

Yeaah.. that's about it. When talking to another guy about converting to efi, he recommended using a second hand tb rather than modifying the carbs to use as tb. it's easier and incorporates a tps sensor right away. there must be a tb with 54mm spaced holes and a 45mm throat. Then i wouldn't need to make a mount. the mount would make the runners longer, and they are already quite long.

the runners of the manifold, i mean. It's a 2Litre engine.

And yes, I think if I were you and you know you are going this route, I'd sell the carbs to fund the conversion.

Oh, that's awesome!

This is a drawing of the mount that is already there. The three holes are to bolt the mount to the manifold, the four holes would have bolt ends in it to mount the carbs on. A while ago i asked advice on how to revise them, but later i decided to go efi.

@Bart - You should add that to your question.

And I think you're right, we should be able to keep the question as long as it stays in the "what can I use to replace" and not "where can I get one". Very good thinking in crafting your question.

Since you already have the original drawing, #2 may be the easier way to go here. I don't know what it would cost to hire a CNC machine to have it made, but it would be the cleanest/easiest way to go, IMHO. You'd only have to modify the drawing to compensate for whatever TB you might find.

Check this out:

The "eyeball" dimensions of the mounting side look about right.

I just added the image to the question. Yeah that's what made me decide to ask it, i was hoping people would see it that way. I did consider making an adapter, but it would be less work if i could find a tb that fits right away. If there's no fitting tb, it's still an option.

When i tried to redesign those mounts, i searched around for shops that could make it for me. they all said that they didn't have the proper tools. i don't get that, because it's a fairly easy shape right? I fear it'll be the same when i come up with an adapter, because that will look similar to those mounts.

That looks great, do you have a brandname or typeno.?

I'm sending them an email ... one second and I'll get you their site.

great

atpower.com/products/single-45mm

If i go for the adapter option i can choose any tb with a 45mm throat. Is there anything to take in mind when going shopping for a tb? Like, do they all just give a 0.5-4.5V signal at 0-100% throttleposition or something?

I would like to think most TB's use the 0-5vdc range for the signal, but I'd bet you can adjust your tune to the TPS just as easily.

The big thing to realize with having dual TBs is synchronization.

It's the same as with dual carbs, so shouldn't be much of a surprise.

I see that particular tb does not have a conventional shaft to maximise air flow. That's a cool concept! Yeah but some MAF sensors give a digital signal, or a frequency or something. Such signals are harder to use.

You can always go speed density.

And just use a MAP sensor.

Yeah syncing can be a pain in the pooper.. But making a new manifold that converges to one tb is even harder.. How can you determine the mass airflow with rpm and MAP alone? I don't have the flow characteristics of the engine or a VE formula or something. It'll be hard to tune it without.

I learned a lesson this weekend: if your starter motor does anything other than make perfect starts, replace. I was stunned at how easy it was to swap mine.

@BobCross - On a Subie? I know on my son's 96 Impreza it would be real easy to swap the starter.

@BobCross wouldn't you try to repair first?

i'm thinking in oldtimer terms, a new starter motor is really expensive in my case...

@Bart nope. I needed a working car as fast as possible. $60 part and 1.5 hours of time because I hadn't done that job before (plus I wanted to straighten out some intercooler plumbing) was the best approach.

@Bart - My understanding it it's harder to get perfect with speed density, but getting it to work is a lot easier. You don't have as many variables to deal with.

for $60 i'd also replace it. But it'd be $360 in my case, as a student, i couldn't pay that..

Yeah speed density is also faster acting i believe. But i'd need a MAF sensor to tune it first. once it's tuned, you wouldn't need it anymore per se.

Sure. My $60 starter may not be a great part but it's definitely better than any nonsense repair that I'd try.

@Bart - Yup, can agree with that. I had the starter go out in my 91 Suburban. For $5 in parts, I replaced the brushes and it was good to go. I fixed it in the parking lot. Took me longer to go get the brushes than it did to pull the starter, fix, and replace.

@BobCross you'd be stunned how not easy it is on inline 6 BMW's, but otherwise I agree. A lot of cars they are super easy to get at

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 If he builds it himself, how will he know if it flows good enough? @Bart already provided an excellent answer which made me realize I had not phrased my question well. mechanics.stackexchange.com/q/41027/22368

@Zshoulders - That, too, can be tested. If the throat size of the TB is the same as the carb, it should allow for the right amount of air flow ... it would at least be a good starting point.

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 so is there like a cylinder vacuum simulation machine they hook it up to? I've read claims that TB X has a 20 CFM flow difference between 2 cylinders, but for the life of me I can't figure out how they are coming up with these numbers

@Zshoulders - You can use a flow bench to figure out how well something is working. I mean, that'd be how a machine shop would do it ... I'm sure there are ways you could do it as an individual. I would think as long as you are close in the flow characteristics from the carb to the TB, you can tune for the variances. I still think a set of quad TBs would look awesome hanging out the side of the TR7 :o)

Ahhh! This is what I was looking for. I worked in a government contractors machine shop a few years ago, but since it was private we never got to do any engines. I've never seen one of these before.

@Bart Out of curiosity, why do you want to go from Carb to EFI?

@Zshoulders The carbs need a rebuild because they leak air past the throttleshaft. The jets and needles are worn, and there's more that needs attention. I could invest and get them rebuilt,(i don't have good reamers and such) but if i'm going to spend money on the fuel system, i might as well consider going efi

I'm sure it will give better performance and economy. I'll try customise it so, that i maintain 12.9AFR when accelerating to get the most power, while maintaining 15AFR while cruising at highway speeds. You also get rid of the air restricting piston that is used in SU's.

@Bart Makes sense to me

@Bart - I don't think I'd be looking for too much of a performance gain with EFI, but there are definitely a lot of benefits to going that way, namely easier starting and better idle quality. You'll also be looking at better fuel mileage, I'd think.

@RoryAlsop - Hello, Sir! How is our infamous Rock God today? :o)

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Good evening - I'm delighted it's the weekend. This has been a very long, hard week

How are you?

I'm good ... we just sat through the inauguration which will be memorable.

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 haven't watched it yet - I'm seeing interesting twitter comments :-)

Is it the orange end times?

@RoryAlsop - No clue ;-)

(Actually, no clue about the reference, lol.)

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 oh - it's me implying biblical apocalypse (in an orange trump-themed kinda way)

@RoryAlsop - Hah! No worries. I'm sure some feel that it's the end of times due to a single person, but I don't look at it that way.

And I was wondering if the "orange" had something to do with your wiley makeup scheme, lol.

well - we were trying to figure out how to get our Burn Your Planet song associated with posts about him (I know, I'm shameless)

Right now I'm actually looking for tempered glass ... a 16.5" x 14.75" x .25" piece of clear . What I just found said $75 ... the piece this would go into only cost us $50!

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 not good!

Nope!

Hey - my new avatar worked :-)

@RoryAlsop - Heh! I like it!

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 well I was messing with reddit - playing with customisation options and thought: I want a Metaltech Reddit guy

There you go :o)

@Zaid - That is WAY TOO COOL! I've been meaning to watch this video, just haven't had a chance to watch until now :o)

I'm surprised it didn't hydrolock with all that alcohol they were using.