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1:20 AM
@getafix I'm an undergrad and I just finished TAing a semester. With exams and everything it was insanely stressful!!
 
@gannex congrats on getting through it ;)
here, they only let postgrads supervise labs
 
Jan
I just returned from a stressful journey into the depths of TeX’s category codes D=
 
I'm sending out emails to a bunch of academics
 
Jan
Munich had a system where the undergrads would assist the postgrads — but a postgrad always had to be in the lab or it would be immediately evacuated xD
 
so, to get off doing labs, the students just have to kick the postgrads out
 
Jan
1:30 AM
Yeah but in that case they wouldn’t get their experiments done and fail the course.
 
Jan
And once again I notice how unfunny I find the Simpsons o.o''
 
@gannex good job, mate! :)
 
Jan
-1
A: Is the Kekule structure of benzene completely wrong?

Volodymyr BezverkhniyI think that you will be interested to read my works about three-electrone bond in chemistry (benzene).What think? Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond: Structure of the benzene molecule on the basis of the three-electron bond. Bezverkhniy Volodymyr (viXra): http://vixra.org/autho...

The new Chuck?
Should we all buy his molecular model kit?
 
I'm not sure you can buy something that doesn't exist
never quite sure what to do with these posts..
pushes responsibility to Loong and Martin
 
Jan
1:42 AM
Of course you can! Half of Amazon is full of it!
They have pretty pictures but they request you pay outside of Amazon’s structures. And once you paid they say ‘Thanks for the money; we don’t need you!’.
 
I never knew that sort of thing happened :/
 
Jan
Neither did I until I read about it in the paper.
@orthocresol I think, you can leave them be until a flag requires action.
 
@Jan I flagged it :D
 
Jan
:D
 
Personally I'd say delete. But my stance on answer quality is usually harsher than most people.
If I was a dictator, I'd be purging answers to "maintain the quality of the website" as we speak.
:D
secretly plans coup d'etat
2
 
Jan
1:51 AM
Sometimes I would, too. But I might be much harsher on questions O:)
 
come, we can rule together
 
Jan
I heard sirens like you singing that sort of thing before D=
It did not turn out well!
 
@getafix thx! I'm pretty happy i made it through. A sorts of things went wrong but I managed to fix most of them. Tbqh though I'm starting to think my school should t rely on undergraduate to ta so much. I have people grading my reports that I've been in classes with now & it gets quite awkward
 
2:39 AM
@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp Oh sorry, I meant to type something different for that question, I can't remember what it was. My apologies, I often have a lot of tabs opens, I must have gotten confused on that one. :S
Oh, I meant to bring up something different with that question, I see it now. I was going to ask this in chat and must have gotten side-tracked.
10
Q: Sp5 hybridization in cyclopropane?

pH13 - Yet another PhilippI have never before heard/read about something as a $sp^5$ hybridization. Today, Henry Rzepa's blog post made me aware of the existance of such a bonding system. That made me search a little bit and I found an entry in a german chemistry forum, where this question was also asked ... they answered...

This question contains a lot of content presumably from another website, is there a way it could be cut down while still containing relevant information. Perhaps quote the important bits and provide a link for the rest. I'm only asking because the large proportion of content from another site with the amount of content in the actual question, could hurt the site, as a whole, in Google search. That was the issue I initially meant to raise with the question.
Oh, I see that the original content has been translated from German, so it's a non-issue. No harm, no foul.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:04 AM
> Ultrasonicate until fully dissolved. Treat with ultrasound until fully dissolved.
I wonder which is better.
 
Fully dissolve using an ultrasonicator.
 
0
Q: Question & answer edits to improve searchability

Melanie ShebelI've been improving questions mainly to improve the site's placement in search engines OR to improve the likelihood that a question would be clicked (more traffic.) I've been doing: Cleanup for spelling and grammar Getting rid of all caps titles so they're easier to read Formatting them so the...

 
 
3 hours later…
7:33 AM
@gannex yeah I can imagine. Even though my university doesn't officially let undergrads TA, I have helped out a professor in that capacity for General Chem class (huge class), so I can sort of relate to your experiences. I absolutely detest grading assignments although I tried to be leave helpful comments. Fortunately, everyone in that class was my junior so no awkward moments
 
7:47 AM
Anyone here knew what the phase diagram of completely vaporising ethanol from a ethanol water azeotrope look like?
 
8:01 AM
@getafix for me, it was organic-2. It was only 14 students, but it still got kind of hectic sometimes. One reaction didn't work for any of the students and the supervisor was upset with me. I suspect the reactant had degraded though.
 
8:26 AM
@gannex I am trying the find the shape of the curve in the change in concentration of the ethanol mixture in the boiling flask when 95% ethanol is boiled (i.e. < 95.6%) thus getting an idea how the concentration is affected as the azeotrope is boiled off (will it be a straight line of decreasing concentration, or will it be curved somewhat?) leaving water behind
would it be something look like this?
by 'liquid' I mean liquid in the boiling flask only
Alternately, I am trying to look for the boiling curve of a <95.6% ethanol water mixture plotted as temperature vs % water in the boiling flask
 
9:19 AM
Can there exist 2-(1H-imidazol-1-yl)acetic acid?
I haven't found such a thing online
and what does the first figure (2) mean?
@TristanMaxson Thank you!
 
 
3 hours later…
12:10 PM
On this it is written
Distilling a mixture of ethanol containing less than 95.6% of ethanol by mass lets us collect . Pure water can be obtained
How??
Please someone help me
@orthocresol @gannex @getafix
@Martin-マーチン @M.A.R. @MelanieShebel
 
It's ok, I learnt my lesson. ;)
 
???
 
user228700
@orthocresol Not so "grumpy" anymore :-P
 
12:49 PM
A man as been disolved in acid after trying to 'hot pot' in Yellowstone National Park...
 
> Adjust the pH of the solution with a 2 М sodium hydroxide solution to (3.5 ± 0.05) (control by potentiometry)
Is this okay: "control by potentiometry"?
Or is there some other common phrase for this?
The Russian original says "adjust the pH ... bla-bla-bla ... potentiometrically"
@Hexacoordinate-C yes, a poor bloke
 
I would say it's ok
But I'm french so :P
 
thank you!
I'm Russian, so tres bien
(0:
 
1:06 PM
> Preparation of the 2 M sodium chloride solution
Should there be a space between 2 and M?
It seems to me that there is no such space in English texts
Just "2M NaCl solution"
 
Well you depends on what you prefer. In general there is not but when I write 2 mol/L I prenfer than when I write 2mol/L
2M is more clear than 2 M
 
nods
 
@CowperKettle That M is actually not a unit symbol; it is just an abbreviation.
ACS says:
> Use a space between the number and these abbreviations, that is, on each side of these abbreviations.
 
@Loong So 99% of the authors are wrong in writing "2M"?
I'll leave it with the space then
 
Yes, many authors form English-speaking countries do it wrong.
@CowperKettle And use a non-breaking space. You don't want to get a line break between "2" and "M".
 
1:15 PM
okay
 
1:33 PM
@CowperKettle Ctrl-Shift-Space if you're on MS Word :)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:10 PM
@gannex oh yeah, I guess a lab course would be harder. But anyway, you got it done so good job haha
 
3:32 PM
@Jan Well, I thought I'd quit hassling @ortho about his nationality ;P
@getafix o/
 
@AaronAbraham hullo
 
This got awkward ._.
 
What happened?
 
?
 
@getafix Nah, never mind that...
 
3:35 PM
..okay.
I'm confused now
 
@orthocresol Oh, nothing really happened my Malaysian friend ;)
 
Yes, I saw that.
 
@getafix O.o
@orthocresol 3;)
!!wiki/malaysia
 
Malaysia (/məˈleɪʒə/ mə-LAY-zhə or /məˈleɪsiə/ mə-LAY-see-ə; Malaysian pronunciation: [məlejsiə]) is a federal constitutional monarchy located in Southeast Asia. It consists of thirteen states and three federal territories and has a total landmass of 330,803 square kilometres (127,720 sq mi) separated by the South China Sea into two similarly sized regions, Peninsular Malaysia and East Malaysia (Malaysian Borneo). Peninsular Malaysia shares a land and maritime border with Thailand and maritime borders with Singapore, Vietnam, and Indonesia. East Malaysia shares land and maritime borders with Brunei...
 
danke ;)
 
3:38 PM
@oseal you're malaysian? :O
 
According to @AaronAbraham, I am
What a disaster. My identity is now compromised online.
 
Oh and @ortho, what's with the coup? You're the Mod here, Heck, we're the one's who ought to be planning a coup 'round here...not you ಠ_ಠ
 
wait so you're not?
 
;)
@AaronAbraham I have to get rid of all the other mods first.
When you see new Loong accounts submitting low-quality questions, that's when you'll know that I've put my plan into action.
3
 
@orthocresol WATCH OUT @Loong :O
@orthocresol From a country of 31 million...and you think your identity's compromised just because I figured out that you're Malaysian XD
 
3:42 PM
Yeah, but you also know that I'm an undergrad blah blah blah.
There's not many of us here.
 
@orthocresol Based somewhere in the UK...Oh yeah! That kinda narrows it down ._.
I'm a highschooler in a country with nearly 1.3 billion people...so even though my user name is my actual name, I still feel pretty safe ;D
@ortho disaccharides (the reducing kind) can form osazones too, right? Wikipedia mentions it's only used to detect/identify monosaccharides ಠ_ಠ
!!wiki/Osazone
 
Osazones are a class of carbohydrate derivatives found in organic chemistry formed when sugars are reacted with excess of phenylhydrazine. The famous German chemist Emil Fischer developed and used the reaction to identify sugars whose stereochemistry differed by only one chiral carbon. The reaction involves formation of a pair of phenylhydrazone functionalities, concomitant with the oxidation of the hydroxymethylene group adjacent to the formyl center. The reaction can be used to identify monosaccharides. It involves two reactions. Firstly glucose with phenylhydrazine gives glucosephenylhydrazone...
 
Don't know what those are
 
@orthocresol ಠ_ಠ
 
Hey, I'm a bit busy right now - sorry.
Catch you around some other time.
 
3:50 PM
@orthocresol Oh, sorry! Adieu o/
Great now who else do I ping? ._.
@Kaumudi o/
^ Oh yeah, Ente boredom, super-critical level-illu etthi :/
 
user228700
4:04 PM
Ello :-)
 
user228700
Oh, atheyo? Padikan onnum illenavo?
 
@Kaumudi Actually, there's quite a bit ._. I'm just waiting for Jan to get back...I need a doubt cleared...
Biomolecules ^_^
 
user228700
Oh, BTW? Apparently, ur home is near my "home" in Kerala. Well, it depends on how u define "near", but my grandparents' house is in Pandalam.
 
user228700
@AaronAbraham I thought u were in 11th?
 
@Kaumudi Quit stalking me ಠ_ಠ
@Kaumudi And may I ask what made you think otherwise?
 
user228700
4:09 PM
@AaronAbraham Seriously dude, some people do have better things to do! You were the one who told me u live in Pathanamthitta and I just happen to have great memory.
 
user228700
@AaronAbraham Bimolecules? We had that in 12th Chem.
 
@Kaumudi There's a 11th grade Bio chapter called Biomolecules o_o
Boodhi koodi poi, chechi ;P
 
user228700
—.— Aren't u like, 17?
 
@Kaumudi O.o
You're scary ._.
 
user228700
Oh God —.— I was just guessing.
 
4:12 PM
I'm a twelfth grader...genius XD
Why else'd I be complaining about the Boards?
 
user228700
@AaronAbraham Okay.
 
Oh wait, you're preparing for the JEE, right?
 
user228700
So I should be the one calling u "chetta" 'cause u're probably 18 and even tho I'm a dropper, I'm only 17.
 
@Kaumudi I'm 17, quit making me feel old ಠ_ಠ
You're a dropper, and you're 17 O_o
 
user228700
Okay :-P Anyway. Gots to go. Bye!
 
user228700
4:15 PM
@AaronAbraham Yeah. Joined school a year in advance.
 
Alright, poi kedukkadi
 
user228700
—.—
 
@Kaumudi I figured...
o/
 
@AaronAbraham are you also preparing for jee
 
@koolman Are you trying to intimidate me? ಠ_ಠ
 
4:24 PM
No
 
And I'm pretty sure JEE is supposed to be in Uppercase ._.
 
IIT JEE
Fine
In which class you are
 
Hmm, if I remember rightly, weren't you the chap that stormed a peaceful chat session with the war cry "I am an Indian boy!" XD
 
Which chat session
 
Well, I'm off!
@getafix o/
@Kaumudi If you ever read up on osazones, tell me if reducing dissacharides form 'em. G'Nite, Tschüss (and so leaves Aaron...wondering if 'Kaumudi' is even a Malayali name)
@koolman THIS might refresh your memory ;)
Oh and mol [Now, that I'm under the impression you're my age, that just deprived you of the honour of being called chaechi 3;) ]. The Kool one's here...just don't get hit on ಠ_ಠ
 
4:40 PM
@AaronAbraham what is chaechi and are you preparing for JEE
 
Evening!
In gas chromatography, is it evaporator temperature, or vaporizer temperature?
I'm not sure
 
@CowperKettle Hi not sure. I'm orthocresol.
 
Okay, I'll try googling some more
 
@CowperKettle IUPAC Orange Book calls it "vaporizer"
 
Jan
@CowperKettle Hi not sure and @orthocresol. I'm semi-done.
 
4:51 PM
@Jan Hi, semi-done.
You know mods have the power to change usernames? Don't give me ideas.
;D
 
Jan
@orthocresol But I have the power to change it back, don’t I?
 
@Jan Once every month, if I'm not wrong.
 
@Jan That sounds like the description for a steak.
 
Jan
But … mods can change outside that timeframe, so why can’t a user override a mod choice as long as it’s no more than once a month? D=
Baby mammoth to mother mammoth: Are we rare?
Mother mammoth to baby mammoth: Depends on how they cook us.
2
 
4:55 PM
Nice one!
 
@Loong Is it downloadable?
Thank you. I should try to get this book..
 
@Loong thank you!
I see no search box.. I'll try to get used to it later
Which is a more proper term "column oven" or "column thermostat"? I find both on Google
It might be "oven", IMHO
 
5:11 PM
@Loong Thank you! "Oven" is so counter-intuitive for a Russian native speaker. In Russian, it is "thermostat" (the whole shebang that is used to incubate something)
> Column Oven: A thermostatically controlled oven containing the column, the temperature of which (Separation Temperature or Column Temperature) can be varied within in a wide range.
 
5:30 PM
Is there a name of the reaction between an alcohol and POCl3 ?
(The name of a chemist)
 
5:43 PM
Hii
Can anybody explain me how oxidation number of nitrogen can be 4
 
Jan
Well, by the nitrogen having formally lost four electrons and still having one remaining.
@koolman Consider the following structure for $\ce{NO2}$: $\ce{O=N^{.+}-O^-}$
(and turn MathJax on if you want to see that rendered; @Hipp, can we get @chemobot to teach people how to ChatJax?)
 
From where
But having oxidation 4 would be very difficult
 
Jan
No, not really. The NO2 radical is only one way of having +IV.
Nitroamines would be another.
 
And if it can lose 4 electrons then it can leave 5 also
 
What is ramp rate in Gas Chromatography, I wonder. The speed at which the temperature is increased?
 
Jan
5:50 PM
@CowperKettle Think so.
@koolman Of course, but that’s a moot argument. Carbon sometimes forms carbon monoxide rather than carbon dioxide, ‘even though it could lose all four electrons’.
 
@Jan is there no perfect conclusion
 
Jan
Well, studying reaction conditions etc. etc. you can come to the educated guesses point. But otherwise no.
 
Ok thank you @Jan
 
What is the name of the function like ketone but with a sulfur instead of the oxygen ?
 
Jan
@Hexacoordinate-C Thione.
 
5:57 PM
thanks
 
@Jan how can we obtain pure substance from azeotropic mixture
 
Jan
Add a third component.
 
No without that
But I could not understand it
Properly
 
Jan
Ah, but I have to go now; sorry.
 
Ok no problem
@Jan bye
@Jan when will you be back again
 
6:06 PM
In a month
:P
@Koo
@Koolman you can make a distillation by pressure variation
Because azeotropy depends on the pressure
 
Yeah what will happen if i boil azeotrope
 
Abosutely nothing !
At the azeotropic point, the vapor as exactly the same composition than the liquid
But the azeotropic point depends on pressure
So
 
Ohk
 
adding a third substance is usually how it's done industrially right?
like benzene in absolute EtOH
 
If you have 90/10 at 1 atm which is an azeotrope it won't be one at 2 atm
@gannex he asked without a third constituant
 
6:11 PM
yeah I know
 
And if you add a third you need to separate it after so
 
I'm just saying that IRL that's common
 
So you modidy the pressure and then you jump your azeotropic point
Then you can keep going on distillation before you reach an other azeotropic point again
 
In this at c1 liquid composition why the re is c2 vapour composition
 
6:13 PM
@gannex yes
 
@Hexacoordinate-C okay
 
The what ? @koolman ?
 
????
 
you said "the re"
 
In the above diagram
 
6:14 PM
what is "re"
 
There
Sorry for that mistake
 
Have you ever seen those diagram before in class or you just try to understand things by yourself ?
On this diagram tell me where is the liquid phase, where both coexist and where is the vapor phase
Then draw a line at constant temperature on the diagram
 
Below blue line liquid phase
 
And tell me where this line make intersections
 
Between curve coexist
 
6:17 PM
Right
So
You should be able to understand why the compostion of the vapor is at c2
 
It will make intersection with both blue and pink curve
 
What are the name of the blue and the pink lines ?
 
Liquid composition and vapour composition respectively
 
The blue is the boiling curve
(I only know the french names)
 
Oh sorry yes boiling curve
 
6:21 PM
And the pink is the dew curve
So if you want to know for one temperature the compostion of the vapor where should you read ?
must you*
 
So whats the relation
Dew curve
 
I'm not asking you to make calculus
I'm just trying to tell you why c2 is the conc. of ethanol in vapor and c1 the concentration in liquid
 
Ok
 
To know vapour composition we will see dew curve intersection point
And corresponding composition
 
6:26 PM
If you look on your picture it says at around 70°C when the liquid contain a conc. of EtOH at c1 then when it boil the composition of the vapor contains c2 in EtOH. To find this you just need to find intersection between the lines of the diagram and the line of 70°C
Then you just have to read what concentration there are at those points
 
Ok
Got it
 
Here it's not conc. but mass fraction
fractions
You need to make some calculus to find the conc.
 
Yeah
@Hexacoordinate-C thanks a lot
 
And as you can see at the temperature of the azeotropic point, c1=c2
So impossible to make distillation here
 
Yes
At any temperature does C1 and C2 are at equilibrium
 
6:34 PM
?
 
No i got it , sorry
 
You want to make me die lol
 
> "Record 6 chromatograms of 1.0 ml of the reference solution". (will that mean "a single chromatographic run yet 6 chromatograms"? or will that mean "perform 6 chromatographic runs and record 1 chromatogram per run"?)
 
Looks to be the second one
 
Thank you
I wonder if I can delete "of the": "Record 6 chromatograms of 1.0 ml reference solution"
 
6:38 PM
I'm not that good to tell you
 
oh, pardonne-moi
 
You speak french too ?
 
nein
only a dozen of words
I wish I spoke it
 
Good luck
Harder to write than to speak
 
Merci (0:
I've run out of words
 
6:42 PM
I only know "Da" in Russian
And Putin :P
 
No = "nyet"
(0:
 
chemistry ?
 
No >> Non >> Nyet (нет), the negation word
 
I understood
But how doyou say chemistry in Russian?
 
Khimiya (Химия)
 
6:44 PM
Almost transparent
I need to learn the cyrilic alphabet
 
Good luck
(0:
 
I still have trouble with the grec one
 
 
1 hour later…
7:50 PM
Does this link work (for non-moderators with at least 10 000 reputation)? chemistry.stackexchange.com/tools/protected-questions
 
@Loong It says you're a stained glass window.
 
yes, I saw that :-|
 
8:38 PM
 
 
2 hours later…
Jan
10:20 PM
@Loong It links me to a list of protected questions if that was desired.
 
@Jan yes, ok, thanks
 
10:51 PM
who knows why it took so long to discover Rhenium?
(it was the last element with a stable isotope to be discovered)
 
11:40 PM
" In 1928 they were able to extract 1 g of the element by processing 660 kg of molybdenite."
 
@koolman please don't mass-ping people. The fact that you pinged them has no relevance to your chances of getting an answer or it might even reduce it.
 
@M.A.R. You're up late
 
@orthocresol don't judge me
 
Jan
@orthocresol So am I.
 
11:47 PM
@Hexacoordinate-C Jello
 
@Jan I think at this point in time, you sleeping early will be more surprising than you being up late.
 
I have a question about a mechanism in organic chemistry. I know I need to use Cram-Chelate model but I don't see how electrons should move to get the final product
 
The number of times I've popped in here at 2 a.m. just to see the Germans still around..
 
@orthocresol You can't argue with that.
@orthocresol one mole times?
 
@M.A.R. $N_\mathrm{A}^{N_\mathrm{A}}$
$N_\mathrm{A}^{N_\mathrm{A}^{N_\mathrm{A}^{N_\mathrm{A}^{N_\mathrm{A}}}}}$
 
11:50 PM
OK back to sleep. Don't reincarnate me. I WARN YOU
 
Jan
Good night @M.A.R. o/
 
@M.A.R. PING PING PING
 
Jan
I love it when the feed says:
 
Goodnight!
 
Jan
> Stereochemistry [on hold]
 
11:50 PM
Protonates Jan before going to sleep
 
Jan
Noooo~, I’ll lose my zinc D=
 
Can't protonate Ortho. Error 501
 
Jan
The question’s not even about stereochemistry! D= *mumblecomplains*
 
@M.A.R. I'm well-buffered.
 
This is what I have to do
In the representation of Cram-Chelate model I don't see how electrons move
 
11:54 PM
What's the issue if you just follow the Cram chelate model?
 
The PhCH2CH2MgBr will have to react in the opposite side because of the OMOM chelate with its two oxygen and the oxygen of the aldehyde with the Ce(III)
 
Yup. So it goes from the bottom face.
 
After I tried to make something which look like a Zimmerman Traxler but I may confuse on something :/
 
I guess the other thing is that with that allyl Grignard, regioselectivity issues will pop up.
You might end up with the product arising from attack of the benzylic carbon.
Oh dammit,
Brain's not working. It's a vinyl Grignard -__-
 
Yeah I have some troubles ^^
 
Jan
11:59 PM
@Hexacoordinate-C Zimmerman Traxler requires a six-membered ring but with that chelate you can only make a five-membered one.
 

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