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When vinegar is produced, are there two parts to it.. One is ethanol to acetic acid, (call that part A) and the next(part B), acetic acid gradually getting diluted into CO2 and Water. I'm interested in what type of phosophrylation happens, in oart A and what type happens in part B.
like whether substrate-level phosophrylation, or oxidative phosphorylation, or both.
 
Jan
1:15 AM
Waitwot? I know about part one (but that doesn’t actually involve phosphorylation to the best of my knowledge) but part two? Well yes, acetate, if converted to acetyl CoA is fed into the Krebs cycle but … other types of CO2 evolution? Phosphorylation? Are you sure?
 
1:37 AM
is the conversion of ethanol to acetic acid considered fermentation?
and if so, is it fermentation without any phosphorylation?
I've read and verified from microbiology books, that the difference between fermentation and respiration is that fermentation doesn't use the electron transport chain and respiration does. Beyond that( and i'm not sure about this), but i've heard that fermentation involves substrate level phosphorylation only, whereas respiration involves a mixture of substrate level phosophrylation and oxidative phosophorylation.
 
Jan
Hm, I’m not sure about the difference between oxidative phosphorylation and substrate level phosphorylation … but in any case you phosphorylate twice on your way from glucose to pyruvate, but I don’t think any more phosphorylations occur in the degradation of glucose …
While the conversion of ethanol to acetic acid is called fermentation at least in German (and traditionally), it is not a fermentation biochemically as oxygen is involved.
The real distinction between fermentation and respiration is whether oxygen takes part in the process — but that can be reasonably approximated to ‘does the electron transport chain take part or not?’.
 
well, I don't think the distinction is whether oxygen takes place in the process.. for example, there is such a thing as aerobic fermentation, which is when oxygen is present in the air but the electron transport chain is not used. And there's such a thing as oxidative fermentation, which involves oxygen being used.. and oxidizing something, but doesn't involve oxygen as the terminal electron acceptor in the electron transpor chain ('cos doesn't involve an electron transport chain at all)
and
 
2:01 AM
When ethanol is converted to acetic acid, is the electron transport chain used?
 
Jan
Oh, now after looking it up, I remember what oxidative phosphorylation was! The energy gotten from the respiratory electron chain (when the electrons are transferred to oxygen) is used to phosphorylate ADP. I was thinking about phosphorylating the substrates, i.e. pyruvate or acetate all the time which was silly and wrong.
‘Oxygen takes part’ was my way of saying ‘the electron transport chain is used’, because that chain’s end point is oxygen.
Acetic acid bacteria (AAB) are a group of Gram-negative bacteria which oxidize sugars or ethanol and produce acetic acid during fermentation. The acetic acid bacteria consist of 10 genera in the family Acetobacteraceae. Several species of acetic acid bacteria are used in industry for production of certain foods and chemicals. == Characteristics == All acetic acid bacteria are rod-shaped and obligate aerobes. == Occurrence == Acetic acid bacteria are airborne and are ubiquitous in nature. They are actively present in environments where ethanol is being formed as a result of fermentation of sugars...
The bacteria that perform ‘acetic acid fermentation’ are obligat aerobes, so the process probably isn’t fermentation … Tbh, I don’t know how the ethanol is transformed into acetate.
 
2:28 AM
@Jan, you here? I have a question about a comment you made about "spoiler blocks".
 
Jan
@airhuff Yes?
 
I've been trying to figure out just what that is and how it renders. Is it just an HTML comment tag?
 
Jan
No. You know the quotation blocks? The yellow ones with a line on the left? Well, >! is a type of quotation block except the text is invisible unless you hover over it.
1
A: How to determine the percentage of iron(II) and iron(III) in a solution?

JanYou’re already very close. You have realised that: You can titrate the $\ce{Fe^{+II}}$ content with a potassium dichromate standard solution; and You can turn $\ce{Fe^{+III}}$ into $\ce{Fe^{+II}}$ by adding metallic zinc. Note that in the first bullet point of mine, your second reaction, you ...

See this example ^
Also, I’m going to bed; it’s half past three. Being unemployed is not good for me or my sleep schedule …
 
Ohhh. Very cool! I had no idea. So,you would use that to embed an answer following some discussion of how you got there I guess? So you are still giving a full answer to a HW problem for example, just using this as another way of "walking" someone through it?
 
Jan, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligate_anaerobe "Obligate anaerobes metabolise energy by anaerobic respiration or fermentation. "
gnight jan
 
2:44 AM
Dang, never know what you'll learn hanging out here...I'd never heard of an obligate anaerobe or heard the term microaerophile :)
 
And is it a legitimate chemistry question to ask on the main site, if the electron transport chain is used?
(or would they say no that's a biology question and not ok here)?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:35 AM
@hBy2Py (cc @orthocresol) Saw wikipedia?
 
@orthocresol how do you have 500+ flags but no Marshal badge?
Does it work differently for mods?
 
5:50 AM
Do you like the Beatles?
 
I do, if you were asking me
 
cool
 
 
2 hours later…
7:52 AM
@ringo Yes prolly
 
That's a shame
How are you M.A.R?
 
I guess it's not being awarded to them because they marked their own flag as halpful
@ringo Awesome; you?
 
Ah... makes sense when you put it like that
Not too bad. It's 2AM but I took a nap earlier so I'm not even tired
Getting a lot of work done! Feels great
 
Until you get tired and go back to Procrastination Mode
 
7:54 AM
Hehe yes until I get bored and come back here
 
@skullpetrol \o
Jinx
 
\o/
|
/\
 
I give up
Single digit among the most suspended chat users
Congratulations I suppose!
 
;-)
 
8:00 AM
@ringo ?
@ringo You should've formatted as code
 
in The h Bar, 6 hours ago, by Shog9
@skullpetrol you have the dubious distinction of being in a single-digit position among the top most-suspended chat users.
 
That's his way of advertising.
 
Dubious distinction... I love the sound of that
Got a great ring to it
For any reason in particular? He doesn't elaborate
Or so I saw
 
Nah, long story.
 
@ringo That's Shog9 writing
 
8:03 AM
Yes
haha
 
He's the Demosthenes of this century
 
Well congratulations anyway! What brings you to our humble periodic table?
Banned out of all the other ones?
;)
 
@ringo Whoa, what brought Shog to h-bar?
 
He's usually only seen in extreme forms of drama in chats other than Tavern
 
8:05 AM
If we tried really hard right now do you think we could summon him?
Maybe through some sort of incantation
 
We've had some extreme drama in the hbar.
 
@ringo I can summon him alright in the Tavern
But it won't end up well for the summoner
 
The law of equivalent exchange
 
@skullpetrol Wow why? Interested
Also pretty sure it involved that Ocleo guy
 
Yup.
 
8:07 AM
So, what happened?
 
You have to understand nothing happens here at chem.se
 
He wanted to know about why he got suspended.
 
Oo and he got told didn't he
 
Nope.
 
Oh
You're kind of a cryptic guy arentcha
 
8:09 AM
@ringo That's why I'm dramaophilic
 
or gal
 
They never discuss that publicly.
 
Damn chemists. So good at peace
 
LOL
History says otherwise
 
@ringo Well, look at how much better physicists get in a fist fight
Loong prolly won't get in a fist fight even if we punch him
He might get into a suspendfight, but that's another matter
 
8:12 AM
@Loong punch
Oh god what have I done
I just punched a mod
 
It was nice knowing you
You were a good man
 
You will always be remembered
 
!!beer
 
8:13 AM
The last beer of ringo
 
drink up
 
Is dramatic.
 
Do they have some sort of chemobot in every room?
That beer does look really good right about now...
 
@ringo not every room
 
Just the cool ones huh 8)
 
8:14 AM
The coolest of the coolest
The bots I know in SE chat (Not SO or meta.SE) are Smokey, Chemobot, ELLbot, and that's about it
ELLbot is just another fork of chemobot
 
Does it do chemicals?
 
@Hippalectryon could you put a fork of the Chembot in the hbar please?
 
@skullpetrol Do those grumpy physicists like a bot around though?
 
Yup, I asked yesterday.
 
Ahh good
 
8:18 AM
DavidZ said okay.
He's the main mod there.
 
!!flip/skullpetrol
 
(۶ૈ‡▼益▼)۶sʞnꞁꞁdǝʇɹoꞁ
 
!!flip/flip
 
(۶ૈ‡▼益▼)۶ɟꞁᴉd
 
Well if it can't identify molecules then I don't know how much good it can be but I hope you guys get some good use out of it
At least it can give you beers
!!sushi
 
8:21 AM
 
Ooo
 
!!wiki/Beatles
 
The Beatles were an English rock band, formed in Liverpool in 1960. With members John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr, they became widely regarded as the foremost and most influential act of the rock era. Rooted in skiffle, beat, and 1950s rock and roll, the Beatles later experimented with several musical styles, ranging from pop ballads and Indian music to psychedelia and hard rock, often incorporating classical elements and unconventional recording techniques in innovative ways. In the early 1960s, their enormous popularity first emerged as "Beatlemania", but as the group...
 
Do you like the beatles?
 
So so.
They're before my time.
 
8:24 AM
Why bring them up then?
Just got beatles on the mind?
!!wiki/Beetle
 
Beetles are a group of insects that form the order Coleoptera, in the superorder Endopterygota. Their front pair of wings is hardened into wing-cases, elytra, distinguishing them from most other insects. The Coleoptera, with about 400,000 species, is the largest of all orders, constituting almost 40% of described insects and 25% of all known animal life-forms; new species are discovered frequently. The largest of all families, the Curculionidae (weevils) with some 70,000 member species, belongs to this order. They are found in almost every habitat except the sea and the polar regions. They interact...
 
Ringo Star.
 
Oh! Ha
My own name... totally slipped my mind
Yes that it what it was based off of, but then I realized that ringo is also japanese for apple
!!wiki/リンゴ
 
:/
リンゴ(林檎、学名:Malus pumila)は、バラ科リンゴ属の落葉高木樹。またはその果実のこと。植物学上はセイヨウリンゴと呼ぶ。 == 名称 == === 学名 === 栽培種には Malus domestica Borkh. という学名がある。主に、栽培種が複数の野生種の雑種であるという立場から使われる。 === 和名・漢名 === 日本語では漢字で主に「林檎」と書くが、この語は本来、同属別種の野生種ワリンゴの漢名である。また、「檎」を「ご」と読むのは慣用音で、本来の読みは「きん」(漢音)である。 リンゴ(セイヨウリンゴ)の漢名は「蘋果」である。「りんご」とも読むが当て字で、本来の読みは「へいか」である。 === 英語名 === 英語の"apple"はしばしばリンゴではなく果物全般を指す。たとえばパイナップル("pineapple")は「松の果実」という意味であり、リンゴとは直接の関係がない。 == 植物学上の特徴 == 原産地は北部コーカサス地方とされている。リンゴは7500以上の品種が栽培されており、亜寒帯、亜熱帯及び温帯で栽培可能であるが、暑さに弱いため熱帯での栽培は難しい。リンゴの木は、落葉高木で晩春頃に白い5弁花が開花する。リンゴの果実は直径約3-15 cm、重さ約35-1000 g。外皮の色は赤や黄緑または黄色をしている。熟するとヘプタコ...
I'm also somewhat of an apple fanboy so here I am
 
 
2 hours later…
10:10 AM
@ringo What was that?
 
@Loong An italic punch, duh
Don't kill him with words, kill him with blades
 
10:31 AM
Welcome to the land of 3k rep, @Linear! Don't forget to use those close votes
 
 
1 hour later…
11:51 AM
@Martin-マーチン Huh! No, I found x29b5 with just a quick manual search of the site I link to in my \unicode{} writeup.
 
Well, to be terribly honest here, I don't like this notation anyway...
 
@Martin-マーチン Well, to be terribly honest here, I don't like thermodynamics much anyway...
Still don't feel like I understand it properly.
 
mwhahaha...
 
@Mart, Do you know of a Chem.SE post laying out what QTAIM is and how the calculations work?
 
i don't think so... i've used it a couple of times, but never worried much of explaining it
 
12:02 PM
<nod>, I came back across the BCl3 / AlCl3 post we both answered a while back, and noticed that.
I'm writing up a behemoth for this, and was looking for an internal citation for the QTAIM.
 
well, while your at it... you could make a post
:D
 
Of course, I started writing this up because I wanted to have something to cite for the answer I'm working on for this post... so of course I'm going into an infinite recursion of citation writing.
 
You have got a different take on the matter of that?
 
No, just some additional interpretation.
The bonds between the apical carbon and the five carbons of the base are charge-shift
Basically, I have designs to go back through every post asking about a hypercoordinated species and answering to note that the relevant bonds are charge-shift
The post I'm writing currently will get a significant citation workout.
 
well, I am looking forward to that. I'm not familiar with the charge shift bond, so there is going to be something new in it for me...
 
12:11 PM
I just hope my understanding of it is accurate -- I'm considering emailing one of the researchers who's been developing it for a few decades now, to ask them to review it.
Totally unrelated -- Duolingo now has its first Japanese course in incubator:
 
why not...
 
I am insensibly excited
I think they must have been having troubles getting the IME put together
Only thing I can think of
 
wow... maybe i'll get to use that app eventually
They could have used google IME... that one is awfully good
 
Maybe? I don't know how customized they needed to make it.
 
incluing predictions and obviously things you write often...
because that thing learns...
 
12:14 PM
For the Spanish and German, it looked like they built their own, with a simple array of buttons to click to add accented characters.
 
i'm waiting for the time where google announces that they have the universal translator...
 
Perhaps they wanted it to blend with some of the previous tooling on the site, and the pre-existing tools didn't play nice?
<shrug>
Twitter is hilarious lately.
 
i have no idea how the app works... bnever used it
 
"Translate from Indonesian?"
"Translate from French Creole?"
On stuff that is not anywhere close to either.
(To a human, anyways)
 
i don't use twitter...
i guess it is even more distracting than the facebook
 
12:17 PM
<shrug>
Distracting in a different way.
Ebbs and flows -- sometimes it's just exasperating and useless-feeling.
Other times, can be pretty entertaining.
 
@hBy2Py Nice!
One day I'll try to learn Japanese again...
 
I took a year of it in undergrad, and 2.5 in grad school. Didn't step out of my comfort zone enough to actually practice it conversationally, though, and so a lot of the facility has faded.
Hotondo zenbu wasuretan desu yo.
 
12:47 PM
Kicking @hBy2Py for non-English talk
@Martin-マーチン Some jokes are good, but when the joke is not good, it's TERRRRRIBLE
 
well... that's better than fb maybe... most of the crap there is awful
 
FB is worse
 
1:03 PM
@Martin-マーチン I don't have neither an FB nor a Twitter account
But yeah I gather than FB is really crappy
The biggest idiots go there to vent
 
1:19 PM
@Martin-マーチン I know a guy that uses facebook to show off what he's up to and girls he has added get impressed and contact him. So some people can use it cleverly. Also can be good for business as business involves networking and facebook is all about building a network of people.
 

« first day (1764 days earlier)