grumble

I think the fact that you're getting downvoted on meta demonstrates the problem quite aptly. In order to fix a problem, you have to convince a majority that there is a problem. But how do you do that when the problem is that the majority opinion is "wrong"?

There is the wisdom of crowds, and there is mob psychology and the line is easily crossed. There are people here who give sound advice that gets slapped down for the worst of reasons, IMO.

@RichardU Sure, but how do you circumvent the majority opinion?

You nailed it right there, "IMO". That's what all the votes are, opinions. And opinions vary. If he had questions getting closed or answers deleted as a result of those opinions we could address it, but people have a right to downvote if they think it's a bad answer.

And while unprovable, they also have a right to downvote if they think he's an asshole.

The key is that they get one vote.

I had a recent answer which I think is a good answer. I got 4 up and 3 down. I believe the downs are because of the perception I'm saying to refuse to do something capriciously.

That's a misread, but it is what it is.

@ChristopherEstep I think people with strong opinions draw downvotes. I've seen a few of yours downvoted unfairly, again IMO. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a way we can encourage people to vote the answer, not the person.

@RichardU I honestly don't think there's a way, tbh. It's psychological. If I genuinely felt my answers were being downvoted because they were mine, I'd consider changing my pic but that's it.

@RichardU You made me smile with your Bing plug :)

I upvoted your answer too, insightful suggestion

@puzzlepiece87 I really don't use google, and thanks for the vote. I survived the big crash of 2000, I learned to look for jobs everywhere

@RichardU I believe you about not using Google :) I'm more paranoid of Microsoft myself.

You can make fun of me, I didn't grab a free Win 10 license for that reason.

And then, 1 month later, MS defeated my preferred solution by saying they'll no longer release individual patches for Win 7 and Win 8

So I then had to accept all the telemetry etc updates anyway just to continue receiving security patches

Google has more tentacles in my life than Microsoft ever has and I'm a .Net developer.

Same for me and I like the tradeoff

My current phone is broken, waiting for the new Nexus phones in September

My summarization of my paranoia for those too companies would be to link people to the Google page where they let you delete all the information you've provided them, then to link to the NSA docs calling Microsoft very cooperative

Do you delete what you've provided or do you delete your means of accessing what you've provided them?

I doubt Google has ever responded to a subpoena with "We'd like to give you that info, but you see, they clicked that button right there. sorry"

To me it seems like more trouble than it's worth to make a whole interface that purports to allow you to see and delete your personal data than to just not provide one at all. In addition, if it doesn't actually delete the data, you would open yourself up to lawsuits by having the interface that purports to do so. You can also test its effectiveness by deleting your data and then monitoring how well the ads are targeted as opposed to before.

In addition, data retention laws only go back so far, and you clicking delete could start an expiration timer. And the government usually goes after more cooperative ISPs for that information anyway.

Plus, Google wouldn't have to say what you're saying, they could say "Here is all the information we have for this account"

@ChristopherEstep they, and others like them really do have to do this inmany jurisdictions, and it takes a hell of a lot of effort. Trust me - companies do this.

Our own tools to check for and delete info on request cover many countries and hundreds of thousands of systems are pretty effective

But really complex and expensive

especially if you have information from Europe... PII there is super regulated

I decided a while ago that, given the sheer amount of effort and lengths you'd have to go to to have *any* hope of digital privacy (and the amount of now-ubiquitous infrastructure you'd have to avoid), it's better to just accept that everything I do on or near anything electronic is going into a database record with my name on it at Google and Microsoft and the NSA and a dozen other entities.

@Zak Very true, though I take some low-effort steps to give them a lake of info instead of an ocean.

Turn off Google info collection for stuff that won't benefit me for improved services (e.g. I barely use Youtube so I turned off Youtube history and search logging). Block ads and third party tracking cookies. A few other things.

All passive since I'm lazy

But even if my ISP doesn't attach an unavoidable special identifier to my internet traffic a la Verizon and AT&T, I still fail EFF's Panopticlick or whatever it's called test. I'm still a unique entry.

What's that quote, "You have no privacy, get over it". From like 20 years ago. Just think how much further we've come.

@puzzlepiece87 This is basically it. You can maybe, maybe protect your data if you go to extreme lengths, but your metadata? forget about it.

I'm ok with google having most of my information since they seem to consistently use it to make my life easier

@enderland Exactly - for example, I am totally cool with exchanging my exact home and work addresses for automated messages telling me to leave early when there's traffic, when I should leave for flights, etc.

google has never creeped me out either

If anyone in any agency ever checks on my browsing history trying to figure out my political beliefs, they'll need a few pounds of aspirin. I look at all sides

facebook/linkedin both actively mine your contacts should you mistakenly install the phone and then suggest you to them, if they have an account, as a "recommended friend"

Google: "Don't be evil"..... That means that Chaotic Neutral is okay, right

???

@enderland @RichardU Google has certainly done some evil stuff over the years - I don't think they're innocent. But for my tastes and purposes they are quite a bit better than Microsoft.

One of the times I was most disappointed in Google was when they caved to China's monitoring demands in order to do more business there after initially withstanding their demands for years/

@puzzlepiece87 Like everything else Microsoft... They didn't invent evil, but they have innovated

@RichardU Yup, their "accidental" Windows 10 installs were a sizeable leap forward.

I like that that lady won $15,000 or whatever it was as a civil penalty, opens the door for more of that.

well iirc that physically destroyed her computer somehow, right?

Yup, I think they bricked it due to failed installation

She wasn't the only one though, and I am really glad she didn't settle so they couldn't do the usual "We do not admit any fault" thing.

Remember the 25,000 copies of Vista that were shut off because of an oops? IMO, though, that improved the performance of the machines

:P

I got to skip Vista luckily

I usually buy a laptop every 4 years

ended up going straight from XP to 7

7 wasn't bad

I liked 7 quite a bit

But I'm biased because I like Android much better than Windows for mobile and don't have a surface or anything

My favorite would be 7 with the improved security of 8 and 10

7 is my favorite operating system I've used so far

XP was still my favorite. easy to use, and everything worked

I HAAATE 10, but at least it's not 8

Starting with 8, you no longer got error messages when programs failed.

VERY annoying

I'm on OSX now though and man

no looking backs

both work and personal now

been personal for 6+ years and finally at work too

I play games and like fiddling

Have been using an old iphone since my previous Android phone broke and I get annoyed with stuff like the insistence on using iTunes to import music, the inability to delete or meaningfully hide Apple's apps, etc

I like OSes where I can customize even if that means I can also break

I've still got an 8GB iphone 4. Its' inability to open an app without crashing does wonders for my productivity.

(Everyone will be able to delete their Crapple folder on iOS 10 thankfully but since my iPhone stopped working I won't be on iOS anymore by then)

@Zak Lol, opposite problem here, my inability to use my phone is hurting my workplace happiness during all the times my programs and reports and queries are running

@puzzlepiece87 Sounds like they need optimising.

@Zak They probably do, but looking for duplicates in a set of 150,000 medical claims isn't "copy sheet to master workbook" either :P

The biggest struggle I've had is using countifs to check for duplicates. I've tried switching to arrays using some of the answers you and @Mat'sMug write but I wasn't able to get the runtime down, so I reverted.

@Zak, do you have any .bat file experience? If so, do you mind if I ask you a question in sidechat?

heh bat files. :|

@enderland Working with them is getting me ready for my eventual transition to Linux :P

bash >> bat

@puzzlepiece87 No experience, and not on much this evening, but feel free to ask away and I'll get back to you with anything helpful I can add.

@puzzlepiece87 You mean it's in a spreadsheet? wow. Also, if it's duplicate-checking you're after, you want arrays AND dictionaries.

or sorted data

a surprising number of annoyingly complex formulas can be greatly simplified if you sort data and do basic (if this cell= the above cell) formulas

@Zak Yup, the query results for possible duplicates get put into a spreadsheet. It's a combination of my coworkers needing to be able to use it too, my strong preference for object-oriented languages to SQL, and preserving the sanity of the dbas.

@enderland Exactly, I do this all the time

@enderland Just yesterday I needed to condense all the reject codes for each claim number on to one line. Sort by claim number, if it equals the one above, make the reject code line say what it currently does plus what's above

@enderland Windows has been adding in more support for bash and Linux in general, right? So you must be happy :)

@puzzlepiece87 I just use OSX now :) so whatevs :P

@enderland Oops, right, like you just said.

@enderland No games for you? What made you interested in coding? Or do you only have time for computer work these days and none for games?

@puzzlepiece87 I play Factorio, but that has an OSX version ;-)

@enderland Factorio did very well this year :) Hung out in the Steam top 10 for quite awhile

I've tried the free version on their website but didn't get enough joy out of it to buy it. I liked SpaceChem a bit more.

Also, Factorio is such a programmer's game :P

factorio is addicting like none other

@enderland Does the full game have an endless version or something? Do you have to start new maps a lot after exhausting the resources?

the map expands forever

Ah, that explains it

I'm a plebe, the game I've gotten most addicted to is probably Mass Effect 1

And Warcraft 3 and TI-83 games are what got me ready for programming work years later after never taking any CS classes

There was a period about 6 months ago where I was (privately) trying to race him to a WR. Got pretty damn close, then work got really busy, so I had to shelve it.

@Zak I've hit the point though I'm kind of bored with factorio

@enderland Probably won't hit quite the same itch, but a similar one: have you tried Prison Architect already?

The final features patch will come out this week

I try to avoid games since they consume my life

@enderland That too. Then I found out about the MegaBase Challenge (which is to build a factory capable of launching a rocket every minute).

@Zak :o

@enderland Ah good plan.

that'd be intense

last night I just heavily expanded my refinery process

Inspired by One Minute rocket Defence

rocket defence must be a mod?

@enderland In the earlier versions of the game, you won by building (and then defending) a rocket defence battery. Then new version came out with launching rockets instead.

Ahhhh

I only started with 0.13

Okay, I'm dating myself now, but I was an AMIGA rebel for a long time. I stayed off of windows until 1996

Still a fan of ANGBAND, back when it was first developed as MORIA

yeah @zak I can see how that'd be fun

I think I'm at the point I have to grind for more resources though

all I've really got left is figuring out more sophisticated train networks

and then... meh

@enderland Personal contruction robots + blueprints = tons more fun

@Zak yeah, but I've already done that

@enderland Ah, okay. You've always got starting over in "hardcore" mode ^^

I guess

my current setup is producing quite a few module3s

certainly not as many as that picture, but a lot

I'm getting SOOO tired of the crybabies complaining about their lazy coworkers doing nothing.

I get enough of that from my children.

Clean your room. "What about Jackson?" thwap!

The Dalai Lama has some good things to say about jealousy. I may have to dig them up.

@ChristopherEstep I upvoted your comment, and I agree. If I were a manager, I'd fire a complainer over a slacker any day. The slacker can be pushed, but nothing can stop a whiner.

The Dalai Lama has some good things to say about jealousy. I may have to dig them up.

We tell our children, "minding your own business is a full time job" and I think it applies.

@ChristopherEstep lazy coworkers --> job security!

@enderland THIS is also job security

Seriously, that's an episode of the Simpsons. :)

@ChristopherEstep I remember that.

I'm usually too busy to give a rat's backside about what a coworker is doing.

Funny thing is, I should be the first one to complain. After my stroke, I wound up homeless for a while, I literally dragged myself up from the streets while recovering.

Don't ever use the word "fair" around me.

there's a 4H joke in there somewhere, but I just can't think of it.

@ChristopherEstep can we equip all keyboards so that anyone complaining about coworkers get hit with 120 volts or so?

@RichardU Plus, like, if somebody *watched* what I do every minute of my time in the office, at least 50% of it (on a reasonably average day) would look completely unrelated to my job. Usually reading some kind of article/research. And about half of the rest of the time would look like me staring at my screen and/or in SE chat.

And yet, despite what it *looks* like (and, indeed, is some amount of the time), I build awesome stuff that directly makes my company more profitable.

One of the many reasons I love my job: The specific words from my manager on the subject were "as long as people are getting good work done, I'm happy to let them manage their time as they see fit".

@Zak same for me. At least half the time I look like I'm daydreaming. I'm actually working things out in my head. Even when I'm talking to people or typing in here, I'm still solving problems. Bottom line: Is the work getting done? Yes? NO problem and mind your own damn business

My last boss (a raging asshole) accused me of doing nothing because he kept seeing my browser open and not Visual Studio. On that job, I made a point of doing NOTHING that wasn't visibly work related. He wouldn't accept that I was mostly on SO and the rest was MVC related blogs.

before that, he accused me of sleeping on the job because he'd once seen me leaning back with my hands behind my head and my eyes closed. Idiot didn't happen to notice my lips moving because that's one way I problem-solved. I was mouthing to myself working out an issue.

plus at no time was I in that position more than a minute or so. tops.

@ChristopherEstep At a previous job, a manager from a different department complained to the director that we were standing around talking. We were, about how to solve a serious production problem that would have kept the newspaper from publishing!

The irony is that's what's theoretically expected in cubicle and open workspaces. "it fosters communication" but in practice, they still want you to sit heads down doing your stuff because they can't monitor your conversations.

What's the phrase, " 'bums in seats' approach to management" I think ^^