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12:01 AM
@JaneS That one always amuses me - being British, pants means something entirely different, and being Scottish, well, who needs pants anyway :-)
@Air lol - if it's any consolation, Jane will get my first vote too...
@JaneS I don't think that can happen. I've booked mine already.
 
Well either way, this is sure nice to see folks in this chat room - it's been inactive way too long...
 
12:21 AM
@enderland I'm at work writing architecture documentation. The Water Cooler is a welcome distraction :)
@RoryAlsop LOL! I don't know, it's still very open. I give myself a 33% chance of winning :)
@RoryAlsop Being Australian, I think we have the same definition of "pants" that you do, but I'm not quite sure! :)
 
@JaneS I will say, chat on SE is a trap
 
@enderland Surprisingly chat.SE is actually not caught by the firewall at work. Yet :)
 
12:36 AM
@enderland I usually have about 20 SE chatrooms open (I just open all my favourites at once) but make a point of only properly participating in my pre-work, lunch and post-work windows. The rest of the time I dip in and out as work permits, based on notifications
 
12:49 AM
I haven't really used chat.SE, as my ineptness no doubt demonstrates :)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:19 AM
@RoryAlsop I'm an employee and even I don't have 20 chat rooms open. My 'standard' window of chat is 3 internal, 2 Japanese, and TL. Then popping here and there as needed. I can't even fathom having 20 open, I have enough trouble with 6.
 
@jmac Your assimilation into the Borg SE is not yet complete? :)
 
@enderland No, I am super assimilated. People ask me to implement old meta.se posts I wrote, and I chuckle and say, "Maybe in 6-8 weeks™"
 
lol
 
There are so many things I want to do, but a limited amount of bandwidth in which to do it. Unfortunately.
SOjp already has almost 4,000 questions and is still growing, and meta is out of control busy as of late (and I'm the only one in the company who can read it).
 
@jmac I hear that! My kids suck up most of my spare time as it is! :)
 
2:30 AM
@jmac I think that means you can just delete all the things, if I understand what a CM does correctly
 
@JaneS When you work remotely like stack exchange believes in, work tends to expand to fill the time you are within ping distance of your computer or mobile device.
@enderland Clearly you don't. We work on developing the tools to allow the communities to delete all the things. Because clicking buttons is hard work, and there's beer to be drank.
 
@jmac I get that too, I have been down that path a few too many times!
 
@jmac I was just wondering, what "normal" hours for a CM are
Some of you guys are around all the time
 
It's a great company, and I've never worked anywhere I've been happier. And the work is fun, so I don't mind the fact that I tend to overdo it (just look at pings in the TL, I think I have eclipsed Jon Ericson and Tim Post to rise to the second most popular CM to ping after Shog!).
@enderland It depends on the person. People who work in one of our offices tend to work 9-5 or 10-6. Those of us who are remote in a weird place (like Japan) have to overlap so I, for instance, did 9-4 + 9-11 yesterday so I could participate in a call.
Generally speaking, we are encouraged not to work more than 50 hours a week (unless we want to).
 
I think Shog is definitely part of the SE software though, I think he's online nearly 100% of the time I am online
 
2:34 AM
People like Tim Post, Shog, and Anna Lear seem to always be around.
 
Yeah
 
SE would be an interesting place to work :)
 
As you can see, I'm probably one of those "around way too much" people.
 
I never had looked at the chat "times" ness before today
I'm assuming those times are UTC?
 
I get pinged a lot around 10pm-12am my time because I'm usually the one who is active in chat (that's around when we have a lot of our calls).
Yes, I believe the transcript is UTC.
So the far left is 9am for me.
 
2:37 AM
I don't think so, though, I chat somewhat often and it shows me "not chatting" at normal sleeping hours for me
oh wait, i'm going backwards
 
If you're in the US, the far left of the chart would be at 4pm-7pm local time.
(depending on which side of the US you're on, excluding those freakish Alaska/Hawaii folk)
But basically the only hours I'm not chatting are apparently when I'm eating dinner, and the 5 hours a night I seem to sleep.
 
I'm confused by that, because my far left is empty - which is not at all true since I definitely chat in the evening hours here
 
(it used to be worse when we had calls starting at 3am local time)
@enderland It only counts very recent past. Maybe a week or two?
Anyway, I need to write three e-mails, get twitter twitting, and log about a dozen bugs I have neglected.
 
later @jmac - have fun :)
Always enjoy our convos, though they are considerably more rare since you got assimilated... ;)
 
@JaneS good luck in the election -- glad to have you as part of the community! And @enderland keep fighting the good fight and all that. You have to fill my shoes, that was part of the social contract, remember?
Yeah, part of it is that morning is usually my flow time since starting work
So I can get 5 hours of Serious Business™ handled, but then everyone is asleep.
 
2:42 AM
That'd be pretty awesome though, I kind of have that - most of my team is gone for the last couple hours or so of my day due to timezones
 
@jmac Thanks! I'm 5'3", I hope you have small feet! ;)
 
My brain just shuts off in the afternoon -- my best days are when I don't have a call the night before, I wake up at 8, have a nice breakfast, and then dig into SQL/data analysis/meta/whatever.
 
I'm golden 4-7pm range
too bad I nearly never work it since I'm not staying late for fun :)
 
@JaneS Size 14 unfortunately. Don't worry -- enderland is the one who was appointed to replace me.
 
anyways I also should leave, too, and do other things...
 
2:44 AM
Have a great evening :)
 
(I was elected as a mod to TWP in Spring 2014 -- barely. Got hired to Stack Exchange in July, and enderland was the runner up in the election -- so he gets to handle my shoes/modly duties)
 
@jmac I didn't run in that election ;)
 
You didn't? We had a separate election?
 
Yup
 
A year and my mind goes to putty.
 
Once Japanese graduates and settles down, then maybe I will have time to do all that stuff I have always wanted to do.
 
@jmac maybe in 6 - 8 weeks?
 
Ah, I remember now. Jim was the runner up in the election, but he didn't want to be a mod, so we had a new election.
@enderland Try 6-8 months maybe. With our new graduation criteria I could probably graduate them now, but the privilege levels are lacking since people are very reluctant to vote for some reason.
Gah, I need to send out swag too.
 
18 mins ago, by jmac
@enderland No, I am super assimilated. People ask me to implement old meta.se posts I wrote, and I chuckle and say, "Maybe in 6-8 weeks™"
needs more assimilation hah!
 
Feature = 6-8 weeks. Graduating a site? 6-8 months.
 
2:47 AM
anyways I'm actually going to leave before another hour passes. have a good one :)
 
Okay, really running away now.
Enjoy guys!
 
@jmac wave
 
 
5 hours later…
7:57 AM
@jmac It seems to work quite well - when working in my home office, SE is on one screen, and I use two others for the day job. At work I only have two screens, so I just bring my SE window up as needed. The mobile app is my least favourite way to work, as it is very difficult to see everything at a glance (ie you can't) so I have to cycle through them all
We had a quick straw poll around Sec.SE, and I tended to have the lowest number of tabs open. A lot of those guys have >60 or 100. I don't think my brain could sort those effectively
 
 
5 hours later…
12:57 PM
@RoryAlsop Chrome is a memory hog, or I'd generally have more
 
@enderland I'm on chrome - but as this is my only windows box, it is specced for gaming. It has a lot more RAM than I'll ever need :-)
 
@RoryAlsop I frequently run out and have problems, though I suspect it might be because of my page file settings from before, I changed those recently so who knows...
 
 
2 hours later…
Air
3:20 PM
I accidentally enough reputation to vote in the election, is this dangerous?
 
3:37 PM
@Air depends if your vote breaks the election, which I don't think SE would have allowed ;)
 
Air
The coworker in this question is clearly Jesse Pinkman.
 
4:34 PM
@Air Odd question - is air dangerous.. :-)
 
Don't try to psychoanalyze them. Just talk to them. — keshlam 1 hour ago
 
Air
4:53 PM
@RoryAlsop It's not odd at all; my day job is to quantify the answer to that very question
 
@Air oh - cool. What do you do?
 
Air
5:11 PM
@RoryAlsop I work for this agency as an engineer.
The specifics are varied and potentially boring
 
@Air not for engineers! :)
though I'm a wannabe engineer now, with a background in engineering but working in IT
 
Air
@enderland Even for engineers, to be honest. I do a lot of inventory work, it's not very sexy.
 
Air
5:59 PM
 
6:14 PM
@Air thanks
@Air yeah. inventory... :) though everyone finds their own work interesting
hopefully, somefolks do stuff I'd never do and I do stuff others would hate
 
Air
I have that type of personality where I can dig into something extremely nitpicky or abstract and find challenges to keep myself occupied. When I was younger, I temped for a while, and I found data entry not so bad - it can be kind of zen, and there are all sorts of little puzzles to solve about how to optimize the work as well as your own comfort, how to do QC, how to improve the DE procedure
Of course, it's much more rewarding to make actual money and be able to get up from your desk and not worry about RSI
Inventory of air pollution is loads more complex and interesting than inventory of a warehouse.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:56 PM
@Air you want to make money? who are you!
 
 
1 hour later…
9:00 PM
@enderland I like money. Money buys me nice things :) I just wished I earned more of it!
 
:D
 
At least today is Friday for me :)
 
9:40 PM
Hah
10
A: Why do some companies prefer consultants over salaried employees?

enderlandWhy hire consultants instead of FTEs? What are the pro's of hiring consultants, and when do you need one? Keep in mind that there will be a multitude of employment laws/regulations/etc that vary based on country and region (or even government). These can make hiring an FTE vs consultant a v...

wow that got longer than I wanted lol
 
@enderland I'm impressed! :)
 
@JaneS Sometimes it's fun to do math, ha
 
@enderland Not for this poor soul, apparently :) workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/50314/…
(how do I link it as you did in chat?)
 
Just put the link in without anything else
 
Ahh, too obvious :)
 
9:56 PM
@enderland That's really helpful - I have always taken a sort of ballpark figure when doing the justifications to take on contractors vs permies, but this explains a lot
 
that was incredible. by the way, I've always wondered - what is a 401k? I've assumed it might be something to do with tax or retirement or healthcare in the US, but never really been sure.
 
@yochannah 401k is a retirement plan in the USA (similar to an RRSP in Canada) that I don't think really has equivalents in Europe
 
Or Australia :)
 
Australia has something similar though, iirc
Superannuation I think is the term
 
We have compulsory employer-paid superannuation.
:)
 
10:02 PM
So.... like a pension?
 
@yochannah basically it's a way to save money that remains in your control for retirement
@yochannah yeah, somewhat
 
No, a pension is different. It's a forced saving plan.
 
It's more of a "self funded pension" in the USA
 
A pension can subsidize a pension, but the chances are that pensions will disappear in future here.
 
ok, I'll just think of it as retirement savings, then :)
 
10:03 PM
err.. pension can subsidize superannuation :)
 
@yochannah for 401k in the USA you get tax benefits too for contributing
 
Apparently I haven't had my morning coffee yet :)
 
@JaneS I knew something in that statement was wrong lol
 
@JaneS you can edit previous messages too (not sure if you realized this yet, it's another not obvious chat feature)
 
@yochannah LOL! Yes, Jane's brain failed :)
@enderland I have seen it done, but sometimes I just prefer wear my stupidity :)
 
10:06 PM
@JaneS your double replies have been making me laugh a little bit ;)
 
Oh,am I sending duplicates? My net connection here at work is flaky.
 
With that brief interjection, I'm off to bed. night/morning/afternoon to ya'll as appropriate :)
 
@yochannah Good night! :)
 
@RoryAlsop there's likely more misc costs that you can't really predict, technology costs (does your company pay for all that?), building costs, etc, but yeah that is at least a pretty good start to the "think about this" thing
 
@enderland Editing a chat message may be a mod privilege. Or I'm stupid. Both? :)
 
10:09 PM
Another good rule of thumb is desired salary x100 for hourly cost
@JaneS there's a little dropdown arrow that appears if you hover over the far left of the message
that has all sorts of options that you never would have found otherwise lol
 
@enderland Weird. When I looked a moment ago, I just had flag for moderator on the popup. Now I have all sorts of exciting things there :)
 
@JaneS I think it's different on other people's chat messages
 
Oh, I see. I can only edit my last message :)
 
only within the past X minutes where I don't remember X
 
Actually no, it's time based :)
@enderland X is always one minute less than you need ;)
 
10:13 PM
@RoryAlsop in europe I bet that the "non salary" costs are ridiculously higher than the USA too
anyways time for me to take off, later folks
 
@enderland wave
 
@enderland Yeah - my general ballpark is a 30% or so hike in those intangibles
@JaneS Unless you are a mod, then you can edit as much as you like :-)
 
10:36 PM
@RoryAlsop Alas, I am only a mere mortal :)
 
@JaneS well - 50:50 chance...
 
@RoryAlsop 33:33:33 chance :)
 
Air
11:16 PM
@enderland I was typing up an answer to that when yours appeared, and I realized we just had overlapping lists of bullet points, the permutations of which for such a broad topic were endless...
The only thing I'm not sure is in your expanded answer (skimmed it, looks good) is the simple fact that sometimes it's not the company making this decision, it's just that there are a lot of tedious obstacles in the way of a supervisor getting funding and approval for a new hire
Even supervisors have "real work" to get done, after all
 

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