The Water Cooler

4:12 PM

1

A: What should the "Back it up" policy look like for The Workplace

Yes it should be kept but the enforcement of it needs to be increased. But I am infavor of a change in the wording. You should always include in your answer information about why you think your answer is correct. Don't just answer "do X" but rather answer "do X because..." Additional inf...

I stole from your post @enderland... and modified @PaulDonneys version but I personally like the end result.

enderland

I like that

Chad

@CMW In the US it is considered weakness and should be kept hidden like an illegitimate child or a coke habit.

enderland

still think we should have an exanded meta post for all that though, giving more tangible examplse

1

Q: Recourse after recruiter has become unresponsive?

A little bit of background: I am currently employed and not actively seeking new employment. I generally ignore most recruiters seeking to have me interview for those "perfect fit" positions. This time around, for a variety of reasons, I took the bait. After learning more about the position, ...

Chad

@enderland I agree... actually I would like to see a full page of content in the help center on it

enderland

CPR!?!?!?!??!

@TranTanKhoa It is very simple: a big part of the site visitors are simply clicking randomly... I did what I could to correct (gave a +1). — Peter Horvath 3 hours ago

Chad

4:16 PM

@enderland Hi I wrote a book to say I am dissapointed that the recruiter stopped talking to me.

enderland

I cant' decide who to vote for in the moderator election...

0

Q: Interview in Java but familiar with C++

on Friday I have an interview for an internship for the summer. The internship is a programming position that relays electronic patient information and documents to hospitals. I have been informed that the interview is going to be primarily in Java. The issue is that I have taken two years of C++...

interviewing

arg

Chad

4:32 PM

@enderland We need a general off topic not about navigating the workplace reason

@enderland I would tell you if we could PM :p

enderland

Hahahaha yeah, same, though it's annoying because of how the system works all votes are not created equal

-1

A: Recourse after recruiter has become unresponsive?

Most likely the department thought they had approval to add a person but it was withdrawn and they are still negotiating to get the position approved.

Chad

@enderland ?

enderland

its fairly weighted iirc

Chad

by rep?

I wish i could have made a 4th and 5th choice

and a write in candidate :p

enderland

hah

PaulDonny

4:46 PM

Wow @ the burnout conversation

Chad

@enderland I do not disagree

enderland

sometime I will put one together, when I have a bit more time

I still want to make a Workplace equivalent of this - meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/q/6483/52929

Chad

@enderland Would be helpful

panoptical

The burnout conversation kind of ties in nicely with meta.workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/2548/…

PaulDonny

Yeah

Jim G.

4:52 PM

@Chad Agreed.

@Chad I'm not sure if this is hyperbole, but if I take you literally, this would never work.

Chad

Please stop pinging me

I dont see them but i hear them

enderland

@jmort253 can you please take some sort of moderator action to deal with the sequences of messages just now? I think it's very clear one person is very interested in harassing another user on this site and I am not ok with this. The topic of "pinging" has been brought up multiple times before (that I am aware of) and is something I would consider harassment at this point

or @NickC

NickC

5:30 PM

@enderland Enderland I'm sorry but there's been no harassment here.

If you "hear" pings but can't see them, then file a bug on Meta Stackoverflow -- that sounds broken to me.

Unless there's some strange subtext I'm unaware of, there's nothing out of line in the content of the messages that remain.

Chad

6:27 PM

@NickC This instance may not have been but there is a pattern of it followed by a few seemingly innocent thing like here to get the alert level down so it can happen again and again and again

I do get that you cant do anything and thanks for looking

Alex M.

hiya

RhysW

6:45 PM

hey there

PaulDonny

Olah

RhysW

hows everyone doing?

Shog9

@jmac it's implemented - go ahead, try it out.

The usual rules for deletion apply in all cases. The big change is that delete-reviewed posts that can't be deleted by normal users are forwarded to the moderators.

One edge-case I forgot about when writing that post involves accepted answers - they can't ever be deleted by normal users, regardless of reputation, and even if heavily-downvoted... So they always skip review entirely.

RhysW

I did wonder that about accepted answers never thought there was any substance to my guess though

Chad

@Shog9 So can highly voted answers be deleted or at least forwarded to mods through this

Shog9

6:58 PM

of course:
1) if enough people down-vote it to bring the score <=0 before review completes, it'll be deleted automatically.
2) if the review is completed with a "delete" consensus but the post still scores >= 0, the flags will be marked "helpful" and a new (moderator-only) flag will be raised.

RhysW

Post accumulates 3 Delete votes (can only happen when post scores <= 0 and reviewers have >= 20K rep).
Outcome: post is deleted, flags are marked "helpful".

if you mean high voted as in, high positive score, then it seems like no, has to be low post score total

Chad

@RhysW Shog is saying that the new review que will allow for it

RhysW

@Chad Its his proposed changes post i am reading from

if it has a low score and is reviewed to be deleted, its deleted

if it has a high score and recieves lots more delete votes, then it goes into a mod queue

77

Q: Let's get rid of the 10K flag queue

The 10K tools are pretty cool... You get a birds-eye view of activity on the site, a "dashboard" view of what's happening. Some of the individual tools haven't scaled particularly well with Stack Overflow's growth, but the concept behind them is still sound: we trust you to enough to be a bee wat...

feature-request review moderator-tools 10k-tools flag-queue

points 2 and 4 in the proposed changes list

unless i have misinterpreted the changes

in which case i fully expect a slap in the face with a fish from shog any minute now

Chad

@RhysW right that is what i was asking about

how do things get in the review cue?

RhysW

umm, i believe still through flagging

as it says in the bullet points 'flags are marked as helpful'

so flagging must still exist on some level

CMW

7:09 PM

@Chad into the 10k queue?

flagging

or delete-voting. depends on the queue

RhysW

@CMW i think he means under the new proposed changes 10k flag queue is going, moving into the review queue, i think he was questioning how these things then end up in that queue

CMW

ah, sorry. should read up on the conversation before blurting out things

RhysW

blame it on the red wine :P

CMW

it's not even open yet :-(

@Chad so... I read shog's post and I think answers will end up in that new queue as they do right now in the 10k queue

flagging as NAA, VLQ (we need a 'just low quality' flag, so people don't complain about our abusing VLQ anymore) and friends

Chad

7:32 PM

how about a does not meet standards flag

not that we have those any more

CMW

that sounds good

about not having standards:

@CMW - just fuck off and mind your own business instead of poking fun here. — LadyBurnout 1 min ago

cute.

Chad

@CMW see what i mean

CMW

yep

Chad

Can we get question/comment/answer ban scripts for TWP?

pelase

CMW

what do those do?

ban people after certain thresholds of

things?

RhysW

7:36 PM

exactly

Chad

when people get to many flags or low voted q/a/c they are prevented from posting them any more

Heck if you could eliminate comments 90% of the drama on the site would go away

CMW

or clot up answers

Chad

@CMW just because a question has a legal component does not mean that the questionis asking for legal advice

similarly with medical questions

The op was not asking for medical advice.

If a medical solution is the correct one then you can make an arguement in an answer for that.

CMW

I did learn that this is viewed very differntly in the US

in germany this would be very much a medical question

Chad

No the question is how do I deal with it. In germany the answer may be that you see a doctor about it. The answer may be that in the US as well... but it needs an authoritive answer saying so

and explaining why

it scares me that you do not see that

you could potentially be a mod in 20 minutes and you do not understand that?

I am freaking irate about this

CMW

7:44 PM

so...

questions where the answer is 'see a lawyer' may be closed for being legal questions

but questions where the answer is 'see a doctor' are not medical questions

odd...

Dave Johnson

Definitely seems like a double-standard of sorts

Chad

The question really needs to be rephrased to sound less dramatic. But not lose the sense of urgency

@DaveJohnson how is that?

Dave Johnson

Like CMW said, anything that is ultimately a legal question is considered by all to be off-topic

Chad

no it is not

every thing is a legal issue

Dave Johnson

I have yet to see a question requesting legal advice not be closed

Chad

7:48 PM

in some way

Dave Johnson

Or at least get lots of close votes

Chad

we can talk about how to handle things inside the lines of the law

Dave Johnson

This question has a physical manifestation of anxiety (essentially), and the answer should be "see a doctor"

Chad

Legal advice is asking about potential results in court

CMW

@Chad That was my idea behind close-voting it. There was so much back-and-forth in the comments and (at least to me, being German) the focus was so much on the dramatic medical state the OP was in that I thought it better to get it closed and put into better shape, before stacking up answers that refer to details all over the place.

Chad

7:49 PM

It needs edited but even as it stands it is fine. We need a mod to clear the comments that are not about clarifing the question though

Dave Johnson

If you can remove the second paragraph, you may get an appropriate question

But seriously, if you are so stressed that you have physical symptoms, nothing we say can help

Chad

I would love a mod that was strict about comments if they arent clarifing they should be gone

CMW

Like I pointed out before, I completely understand that this is far from as clearly the medical issue, it would be here.

Chad

@Dave - then if it is a medical problem make that an answer. explain why it is and it will be a good answer

Dave Johnson

For sure, that comment section definitely turned into a full-fledged conversation

Chad

7:51 PM

@CMW I did not say that. I said that does not make it off topic

CMW

Place that question to anyone around here and they just point you towards the nearest doctor.

Chad

How do I deal with it: You see a doctor and here is why...

CMW

@Chad So then why do "how do I handle being fired for unjust cause?"-type questions get put on hold for being legal questions?

Chad

I recieved a summons in mail about some with my boss what should i do: Get a lawyer and here is why

both on topic

not on topic: What meds should I take to deal with my burnout

not on topic: I have been summonsed to speak against my boss what could happen if I refuse to testify

Do you see the difference in those questions?

CMW

I do

I fail to see the difference to my example

which is something I have seen being closed for said reason. which actually prompted me to close-vote the way I did

Chad

7:54 PM

@CMW Should be edited to "how do I handle being fired for cause when I feel wrongly accused?" : Get a lawyer and here is why. Or move on and here is why

@CMW And I argue them when ever i see it

We even have a meta question where we tried to clarify the differnce between asking for legal advice and questions about the workplace that have a legal component

CMW

Yep, I would see a similar edit done to the question about burn-out

Chad

@CMW Me too

But I dont know how to do it with out losing an important feel. I have tried several times

It needs to retain the sense of urgency the OP is feeling, but it needs to lose the drama of the question.

CMW

That's why I voted the way I did and you responded the way you did. It's similar to the way we would have handled a flag on a legal question of that quality. I would have flagged for being a legal question, you would have argued it was ok. That's actually something I value very much in the way flags and votes are handled here. :)

Chad

In the US there is a great reluctance to admitting to any weakness and mental health issue is seen as weakness even if it was treated and in the past

RhysW

@Chad which question?

CMW

7:59 PM

-2

Q: How to handle and recover from a scorching work burn out?

I have reached a stage where I am so depressed and stressed that I am not thinking clear anymore and don't want to work. I actually took a two-week holiday to try and free myself but I still feel stressed, even more worried about what's going on in the office, the politics, my future and growth o...

career-development burnout

Chad

that one

RhysW

Ok thanks, ill give it a shot

Chad

@CMW Because its not a medical question its a workplace question

with a potentially medical component

CMW

@Chad Here, mentioning asking about how to handle burn-out is of similar quality as asking about how to handle your hand having been crushed by one of the machines you work with at your work place.

Chad

@CMW See a doctor: Because you could lose alot of blood and die, and the doctor has great drugs to make it stop hurting and let you see pretty colors :p

Dave Johnson

8:02 PM

oooo, colors

RhysW

For legal questions you should always consult a lawyer, for medical questions the answer could equally be, contact HR as it could be, this is serious see a doctor,

CMW

yeah, about pretty colors

where are our results?

vote's over

RhysW

give em a minute to write the post! :P

the vote counting is automated, the post writing isnt

(as far as i know)

CMW

Oh, ok. I thought it would automatically show up on the election page

RhysW

nah, i think the people at the top of the tree get to do some checks ect

Chad

8:04 PM

@CMW I have seriously considered asking: "I saw a coworker get his head crushed in a machine. My workplace has placed all of the blame on the worker despite our showing how the machine is faulty and OSHA Finding the same. What can we do? But sadly I already know the answer.

CMW

@Chad It's probably not "See a doctor"

:-P

RhysW

...closed as dupe?

CMW

just kidding :)

Chad

@CMW its not a damn thing

RhysW

in all seriousness, in those cases contacting a lawyer would be suggested

Chad

8:05 PM

the company threw a ton of money at his widow to not go to court and stay silent about it

CMW

If anything at all

RhysW

did she consult a lawyer?

user55340

Got the results here... hot off the processor...

Chad

@RhysW We have no cause... we were not damaged according to US law

RhysW

@Chad maybe not you, but the family would have been

the best thing you can do then, would be to comfort the widow and offer to help her if she decides to pursue it

user55340

8:07 PM

CMW

Yeah, you have a hard time sueing random people about random things. If the family agreed to settle already, it's basically over, I guess

Chad

Congrats Jmort, Monica, and Jmac

4

RhysW

@MonicaCellio hey monica, come see these results! you wanted pinging :)

Chad

who is 4th and 5th?

RhysW

Congrats jmort jmac and monica! what a stunning team!

CMW

8:08 PM

@MichaelT I love the output of that script :D

RhysW

won by a landslide too by the looks of things, definitely strongly liked by the community, loking forward to what these three can do

user55340

@Chad if you just take round 3, CMW (21.1), Jim (20.6), and then RhysW (14.9)

user55340

It was a very decisive voting run.

3

Chad

yes it was... guess we have a mandate :)

Still wish we could have them all

Stack Exchange

5

Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

The Workplace's 1st moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: They'll be taking over for the existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes! Be sure ...

discussion featured election

RhysW

8:19 PM

Tis all quiet in here now!

CMW

And @HugoRocha didn't even show up :D

RhysW

speaking of not showing up, time for me to leave, see you all later!

Shyju

8:36 PM

hey guys

quick question

Jim G.

@CMW: Tough luck, dude. I was pulling for you. Better luck next time.

@RhysW Well I think we were going to have a great team no matter what. All of the candidates were good.

Shyju

when you go to your boss to tell him that you are quitting the job, What if he asks where are you going next ? How do you so "i dont want to share it now" politelyh

?

RhysW

'Sorry I don't feel comfortable answering that question'

Jim G.

@Chad Yep. Another good one.

RhysW

or be general, i told them a rough location, rather than a company

Shyju

8:45 PM

ok

more polite ?

CMW

@JimG. I like the mod team a lot :) Thanks for the support though. Much appreciated!

Chad

@Shyju I am going to a large IT company that specializes in Searches and ads but I am not allowed to share it right now

Monica Cellio

@RhysW thanks!

Chad

@MonicaCellio Bwaahhahahaha congrats, or condolences :)

Monica Cellio

@Chad yeah, something like that. :-)

Shyju

8:53 PM

cool

PaulDonny

@Shyju Tell them 'Your favorite competitor' or 'A place that appreciates me'

(Kidding, of course)

Shyju

how do you start this conversation ?

that i am quitting

PaulDonny

That you are leaving the company?

Shyju

yea

PaulDonny

You just do, I just did mine

Shyju

8:57 PM

the boss offerered my better project to work on last weeek

enderland

23

Q: How do I tell my boss I quit?

I know it sounds simple, but I'm finding it quite awkward to tell my boss I am leaving for another job. The main reasons for this are: My boss is currently looking for more developers due to heavy workload. He has took on a couple of "apprentices"in the past few days - and wants the business to...

software-industry management communication resignation

PaulDonny

Well, I did mine several times with my boss. I warned him I was looking (he knew I would be when they refused to allow me to move)

Well, you just let him know. Write a formal email stating simply that you are leaving the company and what your last day will be and that you will accommodate any expectations while continuing to work there

Shyju

hm

should i send the email before meeting him ?

PaulDonny

I am close with my boss so I let him know in person first

But as I said, my boss had about 2 months notice that I would be parting ways

(STRONGLY suggest against doing that unless you know your boss well enough to not say you are fired)

Shyju

yea

Shog9

9:15 PM

Blog - Stack Exchange: Changes and guidelines for the Protected Question status

Shog9 on April 08, 2014

Protected status is an often-overlooked feature of Stack Exchange. It’s based loosely on Wikipedia’s semi-protection, and like that tool is meant to be a reaction to persistent abuse from anonymous or unproven participants: when a page attracts a lot of noise or vandalism from outside the community, Protecting it reduces the amount of clean-up needed later on.

Protected questions are not answerable by folks who haven’t earned at least 10 reputation from activity on the site where the question resides. This effectively means you need to have posted an answer somewhere else that’s attracted an up-vote or a question that’s earned two. …

Chad

@PaulDonny And realize that you will not get any of the "good" work. You will be stuck finishing up and support/documentation until you go.

PaulDonny

@Chad Depends on your field and what you do. I just got a lot of pressure to wrap up my side projects (which is what I prefer to do)

Chad

@PaulDonny ahh see im more of a meat and potatos guy. I prefer to work on the big stuff, that little side projects are a distraction to me

PaulDonny

My side projects are kinda the meat and potatoes. I am technically a manual tester but I develop on the side making testing tools

Chad

And the source of about 90% of my over time as I end up putting them off until its almost due.

PaulDonny

9:26 PM

I am salary currently, about to be hourly and am excited

This is so boring, making an API to a client for an API

Chad

@PaulDonny I am salary too... so OT sucks...

PaulDonny

Yeah, I typically do about 55 hours a week currently. Can't wait to be forced to work 40

Chad

worst part it i am a contractor so my company gets paid for the extra hours i work

but i dont

PaulDonny

Ouch

Chad

most of the time I dont have any ot though

PaulDonny

9:30 PM

That's good. I took a day off one week and had to use 2 hours of sick time, last week I took a day off and had to use 3 hours

I have to drive clear across the entire city so it is a lot easier on me to just get to work extremely early and leave as early as possible. If I leave an hour later in the morning it takes about an extra hour to get to work

enderland

I am salary and get OT pay

winning?

PaulDonny

Is it at least that OT where it goes down the more you work? (Sorry, half asleep today can't think of the word)

enderland

my overtime pay is convoluted

> My current company has a lot of salaried jobs tied to manufacturing shifts, which means there are very clear and defined processes for when paid overtime pay is applicable - even for salaried, exempt people such as myself. Some companies will have nothing close to this.

PaulDonny

My current company doesn't pay anything extra

Kinda upsets me but I enjoy that I can put in the hours I need to when I need to without worrying about someone on top of me shaking their finger

enderland

9:56 PM

also nice though since you don't have to wonder, "should I work for more money? or not" -- any additional work you do can be more voluntary (to a certain degree... :P)

user55340

10:08 PM

@Shyju I went to my manager and said "Bob, its Friday..."

user55340

(not joking, thats what I said... context, the week before a coworker resigned on Friday, and the week before two coworkers resigned on friday...)

NickC

10:36 PM

Cast my first close vote in almost 2 years. Felt good to have a "voice" again :)

Shog9

pfft.

NickC

10:59 PM

@Shog9 (It was in meta...)

jmac

@Shog9 This is a tremendous change! Thanks! The Workplace Community thanks you.

Jim G.

11:50 PM

-2

Q: How can women avoid de-emphasising their skills?

During interviews, women tend to play down the proficiency at skills they have, and they make a big point of what they may lack. How can someone circumvent that? Note: This question was asked on a proposal for a new site "Women in Technology". Some voters thought this would be more appropriate a...

interviewing women

^^^ This is a rare case where the question fails to fulfill the "Back It Up!" principle.

Do you have any resources to support this claim, because I honestly have a hard time believing this. — Davor 10 hours ago

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