The Water Cooler - 2013-11-02

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12:09 AM

@RhysW League of Legends

ahh, im surprised you dont turn up on gaming.se then!

(I am very very bad)

ive never played it so i imagine i am too

Probably not. I lost any edge at gaming I had when the controllers got 2 joysticks

I still cannot figure out consoles beyond the genesis (super nintendo and that left shoulder button, way beyond my abilities)

3 buttons, one d-pad, that is about my level of coordination.

console controllers feel clunky compared to mouse and keyboard, to me atleast

12:11 AM

Want to play a game? It's free. I can connect to a European server if you'd like!

@jmac i need to download stuff dont i?

Yep

euw.leagueoflegends.com

ahh, cant at the moment then im afraid, bandwidth being used to download BF4

BF4?

perhaps another time?

BattleField 4

12:11 AM

No idea what that is

FPS

I know league of legends, and starcraft 2. That's about it.

(I don't actually play starcraft 2, I play the custom maps)

(I have such poor micromanagement, I could never be a Japanese manager)

ive heard of both, but never played either!

my micromanagement is terribble!

I need one character. Any more than that and im lost

Young people always say that. They all lie.

Young people are always good at games, and I am so used to losing to 14 year-olds it makes me want to cry.

haha no i really really am, even compared to a poor ai i still struggle

12:13 AM

"Just wait until you're in your mid-30's, son, you will know how I feel"

I can't do FPS. I used to play Day of Defeat, way back when it was a CS add-on

I loved it because you generally die with one shot, and there were all sorts of places you could hide and wreak havoc.

My new workplace has LAN gaming sessions, i just know they are going to wipe the floor with me

But now it just feels like it is balanced.

That just means you'll get better!

true, but only because i cant get worse

I had a kid in my high school who I used to play with. Was ranked in the top 100 in the world in Mario Kart or somesuch. Was absurdly good at anything. No fun playing games with him

we played Goldeneye on the N64, and the rules were: first of the 3 of us to 50, or him singly to 50.

This was not sporting (he always won).

What kind of download speeds do you get in the UK?

it differes greatly

i.e work flat i get about 500Kb/s

at home i can hit around 2.5mb/s

some coworkers get 4mb, some even get 8mb

12:22 AM

Wow. mb or mB?

not sure, they write everything in caps so you have no way of knowing

I got fiber in 2005 or so, was getting 2 MB/sec, and was very very happy. Now I am still getting 2 MB/sec, and the world caught up. I love that my phone gets 700 kB/sec though.

3 hours later…

3:07 AM

@jmac yeah I understand all that with respect to tech support. Doesn't make me less frustrated :-)

3:26 AM

@jmort253 this seems like a good question to VtC

0

Q: UX Design Interview Suggestion

I have been to Senior UX Design interviews lately. Some were good and some not. What I am very concerned is that why interviewers tend to give you design exercises instead of you walking them through your work and explaining your design process in details. I have had some difficulties because wh...

@enderland Suppose we edited it "As an introvert, what techniques can I use to get through an interview for a creative, solitary job where the interview requires hours of human interaction"?

I think that' sort of what she's asking, she just didn't word the last part very well.

are we sure the asker is an introvert though?

I know folks like her. Even though we have an open office, our web designers tend to hide out in the attached rooms, away from the sales and service staff

They'll even send me an email even though I could literally just yell across the room.

Our designers are super quiet, and spend most of their time in quiet solitude just creating.

I don't quite understand what you are asking. If you are asking for "how should I interview" this is a scope well beyond a single question. Otherwise I'm not really sure what you are asking - are you hoping to know how to handle the interview stress? — enderland 2 mins ago

I guess it seems like you are inferring a lot

which perhaps IS valid :)

I am inferring a lot. :)

Might be worth closing just to keep it from getting answers that would make it harder to edit it..... just long enough to ask Sara to edit it and reopen.

But really, I think there's an answerable question in here.

3:34 AM

@jmort253 exactly, that's why I really like putting CVs on "what is your question?" types of things when it's not clear

@enderland Closed.

But I hope she edits'

I also dont really mind closing questions like this, because if they never get edited then it makes it clear it was a drive by "need help but dont care enough to follow responses" thing

If she doesn't come back, and if I remember, I'll prob edit myself and reopen to give it another chance.

If it's a good question, it can still help others.

As an introvert myself, I'm fascinated by this particular subject.

I'm an introvert who can pass himself off as an extrovert when needed quite easily, quite a useful ability if I do say so

You'll find this talk by Susan Cain interesting: youtube.com/watch?v=yVPeuvFn_lY

I'm reading her book, "Quiet, the Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking"

3:41 AM

ahhh, yeah I figured that was who it was ha

When I interviewed for jobs, it was a very stressful time.

I can relate to Sara. My interviewers had me do the Archaeologists and the Cannibals problem

if it makes you feel better, I had dinner with just two friends tonight and we talked about us being introverted in how we get energy back

and they're in the room watching me, and the voice in my head just kept saying "oh shit oh shit they think I'm an idiot."

yeh, being introverted doesn't mean you hate people, which is why you say you can pretend to be an extrovert

it really just means you have good social skills, but are simply recharged by being alone.

yup. exactly. a lot of introverts are also shy, which is why this problem she addresses exists (in my opinion, at least :)

Susan Cain, for instance, appears to be this super-confident outgoing woman in the talk.

But after that talk, she probably went to dive into one of those books in her bag.

3:46 AM

also this collaboration environment is complete BS in my opinion too. I NEED my time to do productive value-add work

Yeh.

We're about to move downtown in the next few months, and our new office is supposed to combine the best of both worlds

"open plan offices" arg this is what drives me NUTS

the open environment as well as the hideouts

I have to say I've grown to like it a bit.

I'm a developer, right, but I sit next to one of our top salespeople.

I have a "low wall cube farm" type thing

which has teh worst of both worlds :)

She makes over 70 calls per day, and I've learned so much from her about our products.

She's testing the phone system we're building, and when she hits a usability issue or something doesn't work right for her, or even just something we thought would make something easy was hard for her, I can see the problem firsthand and then just go fix it.

3:49 AM

I actually agree 100% with the "introverts make good leaders" opinion, extroverts in my experience have a much harder time seeing other people's perspectives

@enderland I've tried to ID the introverts in our organization.

The designers I have pegged :)

All of our designers are introverts.

But the developers, feels like a mix...

We surprisingly have a few introverts in sales

Which is fascinating to me.

people tend to associate shy=introvert, outgoing=extrovert

And the leader of our sales department, I think she is a great leader because she's so introspective.

@enderland Yep, sometimes it can be true, but not always.

Most of the introverts I know don't seem shy.... just... disconnected.

yeah

They actually make me talk more than I should

because it's kinda awkward being around them

3:53 AM

I was thinking over the conversation I had this evening just now about leaders

I think introverts are nearly FORCED to think about the differences in a way extrovers do not have to when put into leadership

What makes you say that?

the pressure culturally to have extroversion means if you are extroverted you can just naturally "lead" by following your instincts

but to be a decent leader while introverted you have to reconcile your "lack of extroversion" with this pressure

In her book, Susan suggests that introverts delegate more.

and that introverted leaders should try to follow those instincts, especially with knowledge workers.

In fact, you know, I kinda got the impression she suggested extroverts are better leaders where more control is needed

whereas introverts are better leaders where a more hands-off approach is needed.

that's probably fairly true

but yeh, the pressure does seem to lean more towards the "be enthusiastic and active" approach :D

4:00 AM

I should read that book. Because I'm pretty sure my "leave me alone I want to work" attitude will get me in trouble eventually

nice Ted talk btw.

@enderland I know folks who plan their day so they have alone time at work and collaborative time.

There's a guy who comes in at 3am when no one else is in the office

Some work from home one day a week

I might start doing stuff like that too. Actually I do that since I work later than my group :P

left work 6pm CST :)

or work from home and then come in the office once a week.

Yeh, it's better than being a jerk about it. I can remember times where I was a bit unapproachable.

what really bothers me the most is distractions at work though, not sure if that's an "introvert extrovert" problem or not

both intros and extros will say distractions can kill their productivity.

I've always been able to zone out though.

4:04 AM

I can sometimes, but coding is hard to do for hours

in fact, if I'm going to share an office, I'd prefer it be with 3 or 4 people instead of 1 other person.

so easy to break that rythmn

Because when someone starts talking and others start to listen, I can disengage and no one seems to care

but when you're the only other person and you stop listening, it gets awkward.

yah

depends on what I'm doing though. I've been working with SIP and Asterisk and FreeSWITCH, and debugging NAT and firewall issues can take a good degree of concentration.

And I've gotten good at letting people know. "Hey Bob, I'm in the middle of trying to track down that 1 way audio issue, let me get to a stopping point then I'll come find ya"

and I say it loud enough to where everyone hears it.

Kind of like leaving a comment on a question that not only helps the OP but also explains the rules to the community :D

4:07 AM

;)

I find all this behavioral stuff fascinating though

probably why I love the Workplace topic matter

There is indeed a good degree of behavioral psychology involved

problem is, as a devout follower of introversion.. I can start really thinking over things and get super caught up in it!

us INTJ's gotta stick together!

(or whatever you are in Myer's Briggs)

cant remember. I've taken that test a few times though.

I'm 50-50 on E/I

I think there was an "IN" in there somewhere

4:10 AM

go figure. depends on how "huge parties" vs "larger social events" the questions are

@jmort253 Actually a lot of great salespeople are introverts. The image of a salesman is the type of salesman most of us want to avoid.

IN in there? haha

(said as a mildly introverted salesman)

@jmac Yeh, in fact our sales manager says sales is more listening than talking.

@jmort253 Bingo. An Australian colleague said, "Don't be a crocodile -- big mouth, no ears."

4:12 AM

And the sales person that sits next to me, she basically listens to the problem the lead has, and then she thinks on her feet and either proposes how we can help, or wishes them well if it's something that doesn't fit our model.

All it takes to sell someone something is: 1) understanding what they need, 2) listening to what they are willing to pay, 3) changing 1) and 2) with small nudges to match what you're selling

@jmac want to buy some air from me?

YOU NEED AIR TO BREATHE ZOMG

The worst salesman I have ever worked with try to provide exactly what the customer wants at exactly the price they want to pay.

@enderland That is a horrible sales pitch. Never lead with what you're providing!

you'll die though. this aint no sale, yo

@enderland "Isn't it a nice crisp day outside? A deep breath is just so refreshing. Have you ever had one of those "not so fresh" air days?"

4:14 AM

Hand out some sample air to get them hooked perhaps?

A "free trial" on air.

I'm an introvert, I dont go outside (this is so not true, I'm going outside tomorrow for multiple events even though it's a high of 55 or so)

Unless you are running a web service, you should never give away the product ever, because it sets the value of the product low.

(change "web service" to "any business model that benefits from the exponential benefit of more nodes in the network, but you get the idea)

I'll have to talk with mother nature then about getting your air supply removed

@jmac Mercedes vs Honda

A customer wants to have you visit 40 times to sell a product? Tell them, "Sure, my consulting fee for those visits will be $100/hour plus expenses."

4:16 AM

Lexus vs Toyota

Toyota makes Lexus

So that one confuses me slightly.

yep, but in that case it's all about branding.

car dealers have all sorts of silly incest going on

Like Acura and Honda

Also, you go to buy a car, nobody goes to sell them to you.

(generally speaking)

4:17 AM

next time I want to buy a car I'm writing a check and walking in, test driving a car which I've researched, and if it is functional making my offer and then leaving

lol

door to door car salesman

There are necessities which don't need to be sold door-to-door.

Hello enderland, I have a 2004 Chevy you may be interested in.

Toothpaste, toilet paper, cellphones, cars, houses...

houses can be sold door to door, I've heard of people going around making offers on houses like that

4:18 AM

But for anything that is a luxury, door-to-door could theoretically work (look at the success for cosmetics and magazines)

The thing is, how successful could you be as a door to door staples salesperson.

@enderland That's BUYING a house door-to-door

Hello Mr Smith, I am dropping by to see if you need any TP, toothpaste, trash bags, dental floss,

@jmac my friend has a cabin someone got basically this way, they were visiting some lakeside resort and someone offered to sell their actual cabin

You couldn't make much, staples are a low-margin product and couldn't sustain the salary of the salesguy (unless he takes payment in staples, or salary on commission)

4:19 AM

@jmort253 if you had ample supplies I'm pretty sure you could get a lot

problem is a lot of epople frequent stores you can get that stuff cheap

so you'd either have to sell a TON or have ridiculous margins

@jmac Yeh, you'd have to basically be a walking Walmart

I think that there is going to be a time in the near future when salespeople will become incredibly valuable to tech companies.

And that is when I will make my millions.

trust the salesman to write what I wrote much more concisely and accurately :D

Biding my time, biding my time...

but the biggest barrier would be culturally.... who the heck is this nutjob trying to sell me coffee filters... what the heck

4:20 AM

AND WHY DOESNT HE HAVE COFFEE TOO

it would be an interesting sociology experiment to see who would actually buy and who would tell you to take a hike

You could set up Coffee Filter House, like the record companies in the 80's and 90's.

Just 8 cents, and you can get 2 months of coffee filters of your choice!

they'd probably think you knocked off a convenience store or something.

(Note: you must buy 24 months of coffee filters at the regular price afterwards)

lol

sign a form

4:22 AM

amazon kinda lets you do this now, though I dont' think they contract you if you buy subscriptions to things

Door-to-door Beans Salesmen:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-24637628

Hi, I'm selling toilet paper to raise money for a school trip.

""Police are appealing for information, especially about anyone trying to sell large quantities of Heinz baked beans in suspicious circumstances," a force spokesman said."

make sure @RhysW sees that article about beans salesmen jmac. ha

It was probably @Rhys who stole the beans.

2

We taught him how to get around a felony conviction in a job interview, and he's just testing the skill!

2

4:26 AM

@jmort253 I think it's funny that article is practically more suspicious of the person selling the beans than the person who stole them

Sounds like they're just keeping on alert for anyone selling them just to try and catch the thief.

Sort of like when someone steals your bicycle, then you go look on craigslist and see it for sale.

> "Police are appealing for information, especially about anyone trying to sell large quantities of Heinz baked beans in suspicious circumstances," a force spokesman said.

how would you like to be the guy to say THAT on record

@enderland hard to say with a straight face

4:41 AM

I just posted this to Facebook. You guys might be amused :)

> You know you are an introvert when you realize a large portion of your Friday night was spent discussing introversion/extroversion online with other introverts who you've never actually met but yet still have worked with on a project for many months.

Yup, guilty as charged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVPeuvFn_lY

4

5 hours later…

9:56 AM

@enderland oooh TED videos are fantastic

13 hours later…

11:10 PM

0

Q: If someone were to interview a Workplace SE user for a blog article highlighting how we've helped them, what basic questions would we cover?

One of the ideas for blog articles involves highlighting people whom we've helped. While there are multiple approaches to this, such as the contributor blogging him or herself about the experience, another approach involves interviewing the beneficiary and then writing a blog article with those q...

discussion blog people-we-helped

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